Affair revealed - obsessing still...

[NewSunrise]

I agree. He's obsessing on the OW. To the extent of ignoring what this is doing to his marriage, or for his feelings for his wife, or to anything else.

 

Pretty much standard WS script...they tend to do this most of the time.

 

The only way to get out of that script is to remove the players, and re-write the lines.

 

Hence, NC...FOR LIFE.

 

And it requires action to prevent the OW from contacting him again as a part of that measure.

 

It requires him to take action here...and at this point, it's almost "on faith".

 

Taylor went through this exactly, several months ago. I've seen a lot of posters go through this same process here as well over the years.

 

It can be done...

That's just it. He won't and can't make up his flippin mind. He's see-saw-ing between two women...typical WS script as you said---cake eating.

 

So, here's one advice:

 

u9---wanna figure out once and for all which side of the line you need to be so that YOU and your WIFE can either move on TOGETHER or SEPARATELY?

 

JUST ASK your OW? Hell, you've been obssessing over her for so long you might as well shoot and see where you stand with her.

 

Ask her if she wants you?!!! Heck, after all, she's now a free agent, right? Purrrrfect for you, isn't it?

 

And if she says, "I don't want to be the reason for leaving your marriage?"

 

Then say, "But you are! It's you I that I want. I haven't been able to get you out of my mind. I am constantly thinking about you that I can't even begin to work on my marriage, not that I haven't tried. I AM OBSSESSED WITH YOU!!! It's you that I want. All that I want. Not my wife."

 

Ooooops.... I guess you stll have to decide, don't you?

 

But it'll be easier...at least it'll reduce the amount of time you're obsessing over what to do between two women.

 

Can't have it both ways buddy. Pretty soon everybody has to get off that ride, including you.

 

Oh, in case you forgot, there's a high a price to pay when it comes to infidelity if you happen to live in a "fault" state. Don't think your wife isn't looking into the possibility of divorcing you.

 

She might've forgiven you the first time, but no self-respecting woman would allow herself to be dragged through the dirt the second time around.

[NewSunrise]

Call it what you like. Arrogant, condescending...whatever.

 

If you don't care for my advice, please feel free to use the ignore feature provided by this website. There's no requirement for you to endure my posts if you find them objectionable.

See, I knew he has a soft side....:D

 

Couldn't resist this one, owl....:D

[tami-chan]

Arrogant? On the contrary, his frankness and openness about his experience and suggestions on what it takes to recover a marriage is admirable when it's been tainted by infidelity. He's one of few whose marriage remain intact.

 

After all, advice/suggestions are more valuable from those who have actually been through the grinder.

 

I'm sure he has a soft side...

 

Actually, he went beyond frankness....that's the arrogant side...LOL

[Owl]

See, I knew he has a soft side....:D

 

Couldn't resist this one, owl....:D

 

:) :)

 

It's all good, NS! I've heard that I actually own a soft side around here somewhere, but I've not actually met it yet.

[Owl]

Actually, he went beyond frankness....that's the arrogant side...LOL

 

Tami, arrogant would be coming onto a site like this and calling people who have spent years on this and similar sites helping people arrogant based off a couple of days (at most) of observation.

 

I'd suggest that you stick around for a while, and make your determination off a wider number of posts.

 

Just a thought.

[whichwayisup]

Owl, with due respect, don't you think your statements above are a little on the arrogant side? You are kind of full of yourself....no one on this board has the same exact experience as you did or have. I mean, whoah! you are a little drunk of your own success in overcoming the infidelity in your marriage. Careful now...the fall from grace, I heard is very painful.....

 

You obviously don't know Owl very well..He isn't arrogant or full of himself.

[NewSunrise]

Actually, he went beyond frankness....that's the arrogant side...LOL

I'll take frankness over ring around the rosie and fluffiness....any day...

 

But can you feeeeel the passion in his words?

 

Owl, you are soooo misunderstood....:D

[Dexter Morgan]

I understand your part of it, that makes sense.

 

In her case ignorance is bliss.

 

Trust me on that.

 

No, bliss is not spending one's life with a cheater. Cuz whether a BS knows it or not, something will be missing and always less than it could be with regards to the cheater not telling. If you think a cheater doesn't act differently towards their BS while hiding their little secret, you are sorely mistaken.

 

Trust ME on that.

[tami-chan]

Call it what you like. Arrogant, condescending...whatever.

 

If you don't care for my advice, please feel free to use the ignore feature provided by this website. There's no requirement for you to endure my posts if you find them objectionable.

 

endure....good word....nope you are right..I actually just scheme through your posts...but I couldn't resist THAT particular one when you practically said you have THE answers because you have gone through it all.......

 

I will heed your advice and ignore you, thank you, Owl

[Owl]

endure....good word....nope you are right..I actually just scheme through your posts...but I couldn't resist THAT particular one when you practically said you have THE answers because you have gone through it all.......

 

I will heed your advice and ignore you, thank you, Owl

 

See...things are getting better already.

[blueintheface]

PK - you disagreed with the posters that told him to “move on” but the thing is our guy doesn’t have a choice. Based on what he has told us about ow, she doesn’t want him. He is the one initiating and trying to recreate his fantasy. Maybe he could try reading a book called “obsessive love”. it looks at helping you choose smarter actions not based on your overwhelming emotions. It also has stories of other people who have experienced a one-sided “true” love scenario. Also I disagree with the WS gives better understanding and advice to fellow WS. If you have ever had a very deep crazy obsession then you would be able to understand how hard it is to change your emotions (I love you james franco! XD kidding) and therefore anyone can empathize.

 

Jj33 - It makes sense to me Owl but if you are actually in a PA you know its not just a fantasy of what the person is like you know the good things you know the imperfections and in some cases you love them anyway.

 

No you do not “love them anyway”. in new relationships you overlook the imperfections. That pig snort at the end of her laugh? So cute. That cellulite on her thighs? Can barely see it. She asks you to take the trash out? Straight away off you go because she is your queen …… that's kind of what is in an affair as well.

 

p.s. if you click the ignore button on owl, half of this sight would be gone. xD i learn a lot from owl, don't be mean to him.

[jj33]

Not all relationships are new and sometimes you see the imperfections and accept them as such. You cant generalize about these things. Lots of people would love to believe that the feelings in affairs are not real but that is not always the case.

[Owl]

I agree in a fashion with BITF, and with JJ.

 

It's not always that you don't see those imperfections...typically, in a new relationship or in an affair one, you might see those imperfections, but they're completely minimized in your eyes. They seem so trivial (at the time) in light of the whole thing...regardless of how big or small they really are.

 

Case in point...my wife knew full well that her OM smoke heavily and drank daily.

 

Two vices that she detests...and she's actually extremely allergic to cigarette smoke, to the point that it often triggers asthma attacks.

 

But this didn't detract from her view of him one bit. On the contrary...she was overjoyed that he was going to quit both so that he could be with her...when the reality is that quitting in that kind of fashion nearly never is successful. Nor did she once consider that she was about to move into his apartment that he'd been smoking in for years...she'd have gone nuts.

 

But...there was no getting her to see these "negatives" about him in any fashion. They were minimized...and they would have stayed that way for some short length of time...until the fog started to roll out, and reality crept its way in.

[jj33]

Owl put in that context its clear why fighting someone in the ethers is v v difficult.

 

She didnt have to smell the smoke watch him get drunk (or drink) she could just believe that he would give it all up for her.

[taylor]

It's not always that you don't see those imperfections...typically, in a new relationship or in an affair one, you might see those imperfections, but they're completely minimized in your eyes. They seem so trivial (at the time) in light of the whole thing...regardless of how big or small they really are.

 

But...there was no getting her to see these "negatives" about him in any fashion. They were minimized...and they would have stayed that way for some short length of time...until the fog started to roll out, and reality crept its way in.

 

 

OWL,

 

This happens in "normal" relationships as well. Our MC said if love wasn't "blind" no one would get married.

 

Sometimes it can take years for people to show their true colors and even longer for their lovers to "see" those colors.

[taylor]

I can see your point, PKN. And it's hard to decide which is worse, to be honest.

 

Think about it for a second...which...from a BS perspective...is harder to beat?

 

The EA + PA which had all those sensory memories you mention...the "whole package" if you will.

 

Or the "fantasy" of an unrequited EA? Where you're not dealing with actual sensory memories, but the fantasy of the "what ifs"? Where the other person never had the chance to screw up by introducing reality into the picture?

 

I might have been able to compete with a "real man"...but what I wasn't competing with the "real OM"...I was competing with her mental picture, her perception, her fantasy of OM based off the ideal picture of himself that he painted for her via the internet/phone. (and he had to cope with the loss of that same 'fantasy' of her as well when it was all done)

 

I think it's easier for me to forgive her EA, since it never went PA, and I don't have to contend with any mental pictures. But I'm not sure that it was easier for her to end the affair based on the EA vs PA...does that make sense to you?

 

I know with 100 percent certainty that my husband would not have recovered had my EA turned into a PA. He would have walked.

 

The EA was hard on him but he actually said he "understood it." I think it's because a few years ago he started to develop some feelings for a female coworker, so he knows how easily it can happen. And we were not even having the problems then that we were having prior to my EA.

 

I think my husband looked at my EA as a kind of crush. He minimized it. I told him not to. I told him my feelings for the OM were interfering with my ability to love him like a wife should in many respects. I don't think he understood the POWER of an EA until he realized how difficult it was to counter its effects. He thought he (we) could just "forget" about it, kiss and make up, and move on. Six months later we sat on the couch, miles apart in every way, and he said, "I didn't know how big the elephant was between us."

 

I will never know which is harder to "get over" from a WS standpoint..an EA or a PA.

 

When I came on this forum, ready to cross the line into a PA, many posters warned me not to do it...that it would be so much harder to recover from. I do believe if I had crossed the line and my desire for him was satisfied, it would have been extremely difficult to let go and return to the marriage because I would have grown even more attached to him emotionally. And I would have had an entirely new set of psychological emotions to deal with...the complete loss of dignity, loss of respect for myself, the sense of feeling "dirty", "used" or "impure." And I know my husband would have looked at my body as something "ugly" or "damaged."

 

It was hard enough to regain a sense of worth after my EA. I don't think I could have ever regained it after having a PA. I told my husband many times that I did not deserve him and that I was not worth it. This was a huge stumbling block in our recovery for a long, long time. A PA would have made it even harder.

 

There were many times I wondered about the "What ifs...what if I did cross the line and satisfied my desire to be with the OM." This is the stuff unrequited EA's like mine are made of. For a long time after D-day I did fantasize about what that would have been like. A part of me was angry because it didn't happen. A bigger part of me was frustrated because it didn't happen. I longed for it months after D-day.

 

Of course I pictured it to be the most romantic setting and the most fantastic sex I could ever have. These fantasies...of hot kisses on a cold snowy day..or making love under the stars on a warm summer night...kept the affair going for months after D-day...and kept marital recovery at a standstill.

 

I knew the marriage would not recover if I held on to these fantasies. My husband said many times there was no way he could ever compete with a fantasy or with the "ghost" in the fantasy. He was right. The marriage had no chance of moving forward until the fantasies started to fade.

 

And then there were times I thought about what the reality would have been like had I actually had the PA with the OM. I often said to myself, "I wish we would have just kissed" or "I wish we would have just did it and got it over with." I may have found out it wasn't all that I had imagined it was going to be. What if I would have had sex with him and then said, "Is that all there is? It wasn't as great as I thought it would be." I thought many times, "If I could have just got that fantasy bubble burst by reality the affair would have been so much easier to overcome."

 

I remember once in college kissing a guy I had a crush on for about 6 months. I fantasized about how great it would be. When it happened, I was so disappointed. It was like kissing a cold fish. YUK. The crush feelings disappeared overnight.

 

Of course, all of this is speculation. I had to deal with my reality.

[u91746]

Thanks for the thoughtful posts here, folks. Seems there is a bit of controversy going on....I appreciate the different points of view.

 

Taylor, jj33 and all the rest, really enjoy reading your comments.

 

The one point that I take away most is the knight in shining armour syndrome. It is true. She didn't need me to rescue her and she is more independent. I guess that's what I wanted her to be and I would like her to have needed my support more...interesting observation!

 

I should mention that my W was devastated by knowing I was still hung up on OW...I left my Facebook account up and was telling a close friend who has hung by me how I was having a obsession weak moment just after Christmas. My W read it and was pretty upset. Threatened to leave. It was a bad thing, but a very good thing, because she drew a line and made me realize I had to grow up.

 

Yeah, real easy to say: "Just grow up." "Get over her." "Move on." I think these are easy answers. I have them all. Faking until making, trying it all. I do agree that this is frequently bigger than one person can handle. IC and discussions here have been most helpful. I am not doing IC and we are doing DIY MC.

 

This all got a lot more complicated; it looks like I *will* be returned to my previous worksite after all...not for sure, but very likely now. Long story which is irrelevant. W is not pleased; she has a job here and the house...if need be, I will go on alone and separate the family, and see how things go. She will be close to family here (her family) and I can visit. Or she'll move with me but later. We'll see. All very tentative and up in the air right now.

 

I agree - fence sitter, cake eater, whatever have you. This is the essence of the issue here for me, and has been...although it is GOOD to re-read my first post and realize what an idiot I was! How do you love someone when you have this draw to someone else...an irrational draw, and you don't even know..

[tami-chan]

You obviously don't know Owl very well..He isn't arrogant or full of himself.

 

 

Obviously. I would think it is quite difficult to "know" anybody "very well" on the net...Nonetheless,I think it he is arrogant in that he thinks he has the answers just because he went through betrayal and such..its preposterous!

 

It is also obvious that you guys who share similar experiences are somehow bonded together and apparently take issue when someone gives a dissenting view. Allow the man to stand up for himself. What is with the coming to his aid thing? sheesh...

 

Anyhow, I have him on ignore per his request. So it's not like what he says is going to matter to me....

[Reggie]

Owl,

All very true, the OP has to make a choice and stick with it.

 

 

To be fair to you OWL:

I don't doubt your wife had the feelings you describe, I didn't mean to belittle that. I am was just trying to get across that when you do the magic combination of EA + PA it makes something that is very difficult to shake. Much more than just an EA, you don't have those sensory memories to overcome as well. Add a length of time into it and it gets even worse.

 

If an Ea/PA is so dramatically different, PKN. what gives you the "context" to address this particular poster's issues. Apparently, your affair involved sex and emotions. His did not.

If they are completely different, as you say to OWl, wouldn't your objection about folks that have not been through similar expieriences apply to your commenting on this guy's situation?

Anyway, I think it is apparent that even after a year, with a geographic move. this guy is still longing to be with this woman. His wife deserves to know this so she can make a decision as to how much additional time she wants to invest.

Has your wife been informed about your feelings and the continued contact? She is entitled to that. I feel really soeey for your wife having to endure this. If she does not know about your feelings and actions, you are being terribly unfair to her.

[taylor]

U9,

 

How do you feel about this possible separation from your wife?

[Owl]

Taylor's question runs along the same lines as mine own, I think.

 

U9, you acknowledge that your wife is "devestated" and "not pleased".

 

But you also don't appear to CARE about that all that much...would you agree with that assessment?

[u91746]

No Owl, I do care. Profoundly. I never entered into my marriage with the intention of hurting this woman. I have a much better appreciation how this has affected her. I don't know if you've ever had that feeling of not being wholly able to sort out feelings.

 

I haven't heard anyone here say divorce or separation is easy. I have heard people say it is anything but. I have seen friends go through it.

 

I haven't heard anyone say marriage is always bliss and happiness. I've lived it and I know it's work.

 

I am scared. I have been scared for a long time: about what this means. And I've been looking to you folks to figure it all out. Thanks

[NewSunrise]

No Owl, I do care. Profoundly. I never entered into my marriage with the intention of hurting this woman. I have a much better appreciation how this has affected her. I don't know if you've ever had that feeling of not being wholly able to sort out feelings.

 

I haven't heard anyone here say divorce or separation is easy. I have heard people say it is anything but. I have seen friends go through it.

 

I haven't heard anyone say marriage is always bliss and happiness. I've lived it and I know it's work.

 

I am scared. I have been scared for a long time: about what this means. And I've been looking to you folks to figure it all out. Thanks

Reality IS scary, isn't?

 

You wanted to be the "knight in shining armor" dude for your OW vs. to you being the REAL knight in shining armor to your WIFE.

 

This separation will be and maybe the only best left thing to do. It will be the ULTIMATE TEST to your marriage, that is, if there is still something left in you that wants it, like it or not.

 

Your wife's fear is at its highest and is more than likely bracing for the worse. In her mind, it's a closer approach to divorceville.

 

My only suggestion when that time comes, BE ALONE and do some soul searching.

[Reggie]

No Owl, I do care. Profoundly. I never entered into my marriage with the intention of hurting this woman. I have a much better appreciation how this has affected her. I don't know if you've ever had that feeling of not being wholly able to sort out feelings.

 

I haven't heard anyone here say divorce or separation is easy. I have heard people say it is anything but. I have seen friends go through it.

 

I haven't heard anyone say marriage is always bliss and happiness. I've lived it and I know it's work.

 

I am scared. I have been scared for a long time: about what this means. And I've been looking to you folks to figure it all out. Thanks

 

Well, if you care so much about your wife, why do you continue to do things that hurt her? Why would you have several intances of additional contact with the other cheater? It makes no sense. Where is your discipline and willpower? You can have these feelings, I guess, but why take these actions?

Your poor wife has given you so much slack here, trying to fix the marriage but you continue to undermine it.

Don't you think it's time to just let your wife go so she can find happiness after the intial pain.

Are you sure you are 40? You don't seem to have much self control for someone that age.

[pkn06002]

I find myself agreeing with other folks here, you need to just separate to figure out what you want. Because you are limbo that is doing you no good and just hurting everyone around you.

 

But what do we know we are a bunch of anonymous folks on the internet. YOU have to come to the decision as to what you will do. No one here can give you the definitive answer as to what you should do, you have to determine that.