Affair revealed - obsessing still...

[u91746]

I think you're very much in love with this OW and I think that if she wanted to be with you, you would be. I'm not going to tell you that you deserve all of this because these things can totally sneak up on you and, as you said, when you're unhappy, you're not thinking as clearly as normal and tend to take happiness when it comes out of the blue.

 

Absolutely, completely on the mark. Sneaking up on me indeed.

 

I don't quite understand what the OW was angry with you about when it seemed the two of you talked for quite awhile before this became an issue. I do have to wonder if she's saying and doing those things for show because she thinks it will get back to her husband. She's not giving you any signs that she wants to be with you but she may not be as mad at you as she seems. It's hard to tell, though. But, having said all that, you do need to respect her wishes and leave her alone. You really have no choice.

 

I agree there is no choice. There had been some mixed signals - flirting during incidental contact - from her; eye contact, prolonged penetrating eye contact, which made me very nervous and uncomfortable, so much so I just avoided it altogether as best as I was able.

 

This relationship and friendship was very significant and deep for you - still is - and I think you really just need to acknowledge that to yourself. If for no other reason, so that you can be completely honest with yourself. I don't know what you and your wife share, or what is lacking but only you can decide if it's worth salvaging.

 

Yes. I have to let go. I have been completely honest with myself, and trying to be as open as I can with my wife, but too much hurt to bear on her part. I've never felt so low, and never felt so ashamed. Incredible.

[Angel1111]

When we love someone, even the slightest amount of encouragement is a ray of hope. I'm sorry you're going through this, and that your wife is hurt, too. Sadly, there are no easy answers.

[merlin2]

The signs you are clinging onto, prolonged eye contact etc, I think you are reading more into them than is necessary.Its just clutching onto straws.I think you have been very honest in your posts but you sound like a man besotted with someone you cant have.This OW is obviously enjoying the attention you are giving her, maybe thats why she is giving you false signals, she enjoys knowing you still want her, it increases her self-esteem.The thing that concerns me the most is your wife.I dont know her, but surely she deserves someone who loves her and isnt pining for someone else?Obviously there are kids involved and its not black and white.But I do feel sorry for her , and you spoke about her pain.Yet you still have this addiction and attachment to this other woman.Your wife deserves so much better, she deserves to be happy.In an ideal world you would assume you cant give her 100% and let her go to find happiness with someone else.

[taylor]

I was feeling pretty good so I thought I'd post here and invite some flaming. I deserve every word.

 

Broke no contact last night. We ended up at a work social gathering and chatted, I bought some drinks for her and her friend, and we ended up at a table together after most of the crowd had left.

 

We were all quite drunk, and her friend was mostly making sure things did not go sideways, and she worked up the courage to confront me. "Are you just going to keep 'dissing' me? Are you going to keep disrespecting me and my family?" It was in another context, but the message was pointed and clear. She's made it clear that we have to abide by no contact, and we weren't. I was not respecting her explicit request to abide, be professional but apart.

 

I didn't have much to say back, except that I cared too much for her. She and her friend left quickly and loudly. I got a cab home.

 

I feel like such a heel. Truly, a buffoon. My ego, my craving to seek and obtain forgiveness, my emotions have gotten the best of me, and now I recognize that in addition to never having her as a friend - something I knew - I may have evaporated the last bit of goodwill there was there.

 

Something I suppose we should have in marriage prep, or one of those discussions someone should have with you at some point and I never got: do you know how devastating, terribly devastating, any kind of an affair is?

 

This OW has not totally recommitted to her husband.

 

If she were 100 percent committed to her husband she would have avoided a social event with you (the OM).

 

She would not have accepted one drink from you. She would not have chatted with you or got drunk with you.

 

She would have avoided the social event and gone home to her husband like a good little girl.

 

This woman is not happy in her marriage. She claims she wants to work on her marriage but her actions say something different here.

 

She accuses you of disrespecting her wishes? Funny. Sounds more like she is disrespecting her husband and marriage by getting drunk with you at a social event.

 

The affair truly is not over for either one of you. Not really.

[pelicanpreacher]

You have a childishly selfish streak intermingled with cowardice running straight down the middle of your spine that gives you the appearance of a skunk. You were either denied, slept through, or ignored the lessons you should have learned early in life during "sand box" training and in the pews of your church on how to behave and treat others for it is evident that your "feelings" override all sense of decency, morality, and ethical behavior. You easily dismiss your guilt and shame in deference to your wants and desires for you really don't care about anyone but yourself. I pray that your wife, your OW, and all women of the world are granted the strength, courage, and presence of mind to slam the door on you for you need to walk this world alone spinning in a cold dark orbit for a goodly amount of time so that the next time you're given the opportunity to share in another's life you'll appreciate the wonderful gift you've been granted and cherish it with your life, heart, and soul!

[theobserver]

Do your wife a favor and tell her you still have strong feelings for this woman and just divorce your wife she deserves better and a loyal man by her side. Give your wife everything she needs the home, money and custody of the children if she wants it and move on. She will be devastated for awhile but it's better then her living as the silently suffering housewife while your at work lusting over the OW who has you at the strings my puppet friend.

 

Your wife will eventually find a new man hopefully worthy of being by her side and your children and you will accept it. You will also be free to wag your tail at anyone you please but don't be surprised if the OW husband comes and knocks you out one day.

[u91746]

I was invited out to a pub last night for a colleague's promotion to celebrate a bit. Short story long, the colleague is aware of my situation and had invited me and her along with my closest friends - who happen to be hers too. I wrote back that if this gal came, I couldn't come. She let me know that she was extending the invite to her only out of courtesy, as she knew she was on holidays.

 

The get together was scheduled for Friday, but as it turned out it happened Tuesday night - last night - and she was there. I had been told she might be, in which case I said I'd drop off a gift and cut right away, to respect boundaries. I did that, but then the inviter insisted I stay for one drink. My closest work friends were there - all guys - so I stayed for one drink. I was at the opposite end of the table and we never talked once.

 

I had been looking forward to kicking back with friends, but couldn't b/c she was there. I came home right away, my W wondered why I'd come back so soon, and I told her. We had a long talk, we cried and wondered if this would ever be better. I don't know if it will ever be better.

 

As far as the OW goes, we had been keeping things professional, but no we're more or less ignoring each other in public, mostly I think b/c of our last encounter. I know there isn't much in the way of forgiveness or understanding with most of these posters, and perhaps honesty, frank & impartial assessment of the situation is what I seek here, but this is *hard*. Very hard.

 

I don't know if this would be different if we'd actually taken it to a sexual relationship. Sometimes, I think an EA is more difficult to deal with, especially a romantic EA such as I had with her. While we were into it, she revealed that she and her husband don't kiss during sex, and we eventually did that...she told me repeatedly that "kissing is more important" and I am tempted to believe her.

 

I guess what I am trying to say, and again I don't expect a lot of understanding out there, is that I am still feeling loss of that connection with her. This is the same pub where we'd met and disclosed feelings for each other. Where we sat across from each other and shared innermost feelings about things, events and people. And the juxtaposition to a cold, distant meeting in a group of friends yesterday was a splash of water in the face.

 

As far as this being over, no...I still have strong feelings for her. Nothing as base as wanting to get in her pants...please, it's not that way at all, folks...but just seeking normalcy and closure in this relationship. I am beginning to resign myself to the fact that it will never, ever be normal, and there shall never be closure. I don't think it's wrong to still be sad about that...is it?

 

There is a prospect, reasonably realistic prospect, that I may be transferred out of town to a new job in the near future. I think - and I gather from your comments - that would be for the best.

 

I welcome your thoughts, friendly or not.

[u91746]

one other question, and I hope you can offer some thoughts here:

 

In the event I am transferred, I want to know whether or not I say good-bye to her, and if so, how? I'm all over the map on this one, from saying nothing at all to talking it all out. Of course, it's not entirely my choice, but chances are that if I move, we'll never, ever see each other again. Ever.

 

Thoughts? Opinions?

[Jennifer26]

You don't say goodbye, and what is left to discuss? She is trying to work on her marriage and you sound like you're trying to weasel your way in at any given opportunity. It is rude and disrespectful to her, her husband and especially to your wife.

[bish]

Do your wife a favor and tell her you still have strong feelings for this woman and just divorce your wife she deserves better and a loyal man by her side. Give your wife everything she needs the home, money and custody of the children if she wants it and move on. She will be devastated for awhile but it's better then her living as the silently suffering housewife while your at work lusting over the OW who has you at the strings my puppet friend.

 

Your wife will eventually find a new man hopefully worthy of being by her side and your children and you will accept it. You will also be free to wag your tail at anyone you please but don't be surprised if the OW husband comes and knocks you out one day.

 

Yes, everything theobserver said!!

[bish]

one other question, and I hope you can offer some thoughts here:

 

In the event I am transferred, I want to know whether or not I say good-bye to her

 

Absolutely NOT!!!!

 

 

I'm all over the map on this one, from saying nothing at all to talking it all out. Of course, it's not entirely my choice, but chances are that if I move, we'll never, ever see each other again. Ever.

 

Good.

[bish]

You don't say goodbye, and what is left to discuss? She is trying to work on her marriage and you sound like you're trying to weasel your way in at any given opportunity. It is rude and disrespectful to her, her husband and especially to your wife.

 

 

Damn, you people are spot on with this guy! Well said.

[jj33]

U91746 I have read your post with great interest as I was in an A with someone with whom I work and we continue to work together. What you went through last night happens all the time. We have to be at the same functions and one of us disappears within a few minutes. It is difficult. It is over. We still have strong feelings for each other but the process of pulling apart has been quite brutal and while we have a memory of being extremely close that is now clouded with hurt and pain.

 

I am not sure the OP and MP ever get real closure in an emotional sense from each other. You need to tell yourself that you have drawn a line under it and it is the past.

 

There are always more questions, more things to say, more amends to make in one way or another for pain that has been caused. While you need to go through that process thoroughly with your wife, at a certain point there is no more benefit to discussing each and every transgression with the OW. Its the past. You arent trying to fix that relationship, you are trying to move on and away from it.

 

If you leave it would be civil and nice to say goodbye if only to say you are leaving and you wanted to wish her well and good luck repairing her marriage or whatever it is you want to say. The A was wrong but that doesnt mean that you cant give her that modicum of courtesy. That in itself might give you closure.

[u91746]

Thank you jj33, for a sincere reply to my post, which has found the heart of the issue for me. Obviously you understand. The part especially about the memory of being close, and the clouded pain of the present. Quite a contrast.

 

I agree...we cannot discuss every transgression...but it is that level of civility, respect and mutual understanding that I seek. And forgiveness. I recognized today how much I am longing for forgiveness and feeling very badly about the hurt that has been caused. And closure.

 

I found out this morning that my transfer will be happening; it is still unofficial, but will occur this fall. I dropped her an e-mail to ask to chat; she said e-mail was fine. I was reluctant, but I did just that, told her that I would be leaving, and that although it was to a great job, and my wife and children will be closer to her family and back in a familiar part of the world for us, the real impetus for me was this A and what has gone on.

 

It is over; let's make that clear, and when I read hurtful comments from people here, I sincerely believe that they have not tread in these shoes. I think it is too easy to log on here and throw out very easy solutions to what are likely common, but also frequently complex situations. I hold out no hope of reconnecting with her, except perhaps to say good-bye once and for all.

 

We will likely never see or hear from each other again. As I've said this by e-mail to her, I don't really know how she feels about that. I suppose it does not matter. But it will certainly allow us to work on our marriages without picking at scabs. Given time, I am confident we would reestablish a purely professional relationship, or at least that she would be capable of that and I'd play the part.

 

But that does little to assuage the guilt, hurt and sadness I feel now, or the overwhelming emotions this event has generated over what has been too long now. Again, I do not think there would be a sub-category of "infidelity" here if this weren't a big deal. It is.

 

I am hopeful that we can say good-bye in person at some point, but as I said to her, I'm not going to push it and I am leaving up to her. Frankly, I expect nothing and I'm pretty sure I won't be disappointed. I don't know how her feelings for me seemed so legitimate, and how we ended up here, but here we are.

[jj33]

I am glad that was helpful.

 

It sounds like you have lost that connection with your wife and you are grieving the loss of connection with OW. You dont need her forgiveness just because she took that away from you.

 

She has nothing to forgive you for other than the fact that you agreed to get involved with her. She is an adult. It is unfortunate her husband found out but that is not your fault. Hard as it is you need to find forgiveness and understanding within yourself.

 

It sounds very much like OW was a catalyst for you to face your unhappiness in your marriage head on. You need to understand why you entered the A and think long and hard about whether you want to be married and whether you can reconnect with your wife.

 

You are moving your family to a new city. Do you feel the marriage has a chance? That you and your W are sufficiently committed to making things better? You don’t have to answer that for me. They are for you to answer and I am sure you are grappling with this 24/7. Because as you can see although some people cope with a marriage where the connection is gone by having As, its not a great strategy. It can be devastating to everyone involved.

 

Being on the other side I can understand why OW does not want to say goodbye in person. It would be that much harder to keep this behind her. She is trying very hard to do NC. She does not want to look back. Everyone deals with things differently. What could she really say that would change the situation?

 

To you it feels like she is denying the connection but what you felt is in your heart you don’t need her stamp of approval. This has more to do with you and where you are in your marriage than it does with her. And I say that knowing that the person I was involved with still loves me more than a year after it ended.

 

Your post was very helpful to me because it explains more about why he finds so many excuses to be in contact with me He is mourning the connection that he doesn’t have with his wife. But it doesn’t change the fact that he is married to someone else. I too have had to ask him not to call and set very specific boundaries. Its too hard to move on when someone you care about is in your face all the time.

 

Feelings are sometimes difficult to control but actually engaging in a new relationship is a conscious choice. Your OW has chosen not to continue that route. That doesnt make your feelings or your need for a deeper connection invalid.

 

You may want to consider posting in the OW OM forum. There are people there who have been in your position.

[u91746]

Thanks again for a very thoughtful reply. I don't mean for this to be a dialogue per se, but your comments are incredibly on the mark.

 

First off, about the stamp of approval. Yes, a friend said the same thing. It is not healthy nor wise to seek forgiveness or whatever from a place or a person over whom you have no control; I need to get that for myself from myself. I haven't forgiven myself. (Many on here would cheer...)

 

I do appreciate the comment about not wanting to say good-bye in person and the possible reasoning behind that. It does help to understand the why behind the what, or at least come up with a reason. I have felt very rejected in all of this...logically or not...and read through some OM/OW stuff...that wasn't my case - we're both married and she initiated this entire thing, but there is some truth there for me.

 

The same friend also suggested that there may be feelings for me with her...I don't know if that is true. Part of the mystery with her was never knowing exactly what was going on in her heart. She did get angry about stirring things up at one point, and I suppose that was what happened when she blew up at me. I do think she's trying hard to maintain NC. I don't know for sure. I am going to respect her wishes, and I've put it in her court. Closure for me would be invaluable, but again, I have to find it inside.

 

As far as the marriage, yeah, we're working on it. I think it will take time. We have been together 16 or so years, and we are tremendous friends, we have great kids together and a good family life. Love=spark? I don't know if you have that at this point in life. Certainly, that was there with OW, and it's hard to say whether you *can* feel that after knowing someone as long and as well as we know each other...much has been said about the vibrant, early moments of an A versus the reality of marriage.

 

Lastly, there was no planning here. None...no "well my marriage is empty so I'll try this." She suggested it and I bit full-on. Frankly, I didn't realize there were issues until this came up, and I feel it has irrevocably changed the way I see my marriage...sadly.

 

JJ33, thanks again...you are a thoughtful and mature poster here. I value your comments, observations and feedback and sincerely hope things are well for you.

[whichwayisup]

I am hopeful that we can say good-bye in person at some point, but as I said to her, I'm not going to push it and I am leaving up to her

 

IF you do end up saying goodbye in person, will you tell your wife?

[jj33]

 

As far as the marriage, yeah, we're working on it. I think it will take time. We have been together 16 or so years, and we are tremendous friends, we have great kids together and a good family life. Love=spark? I don't know if you have that at this point in life. Certainly, that was there with OW, and it's hard to say whether you *can* feel that after knowing someone as long and as well as we know each other...much has been said about the vibrant, early moments of an A versus the reality of marriage.

 

 

I would stay away from the in person goodbye. She has said she doesnt want it and all it will do is preserve the feelings of the A in your mind. If you are going to go forward with your marriage you need to let that go. Its not your future. OW knows how you feel. There is nothing new to say.

 

I have to say I am struck by your views on the marriage. You sound like you support it as a general matter but you do not seem to be engaged in your connection with your wife. That was the issue that made you vulnerable to the A. And it seems that needs to be your focus. Simply saying its not going to be the same as the A was, the spark isnt there after all these years sounds dangerous to me.

 

And without downplaying the importance of family life, the idea of staying for the "greater good" is not a happy place to be.

 

You need to find that spark with her again for you and for your W. It may not be the same as the spark of an A but it is a different spark or bond that comes from building a life together. Then the idea of the OW and the spark that you shared with her will dull by comparison.

 

I dont have any advice on how you do it but you have to find a way to enthusiastically reconnect with your W. Otherwise one or both of you could be vulnerable to this again. And noone should have to go through this twice.

[u91746]

This is an older thread, and mostly I need to get this down for myself, but I hope perhaps someone else will learn from this or at least relate.

 

I have about a week left here at the workplace where I fell for this MW. This thread contains most of the details, the ups and the downs. This has been, categorically, the most difficult part of my life, and I've seen lots.

 

I've maintained NC for quite a while now...stopped counting a while back. Basically, I've picked at the scab enough that she does not want to be in the same room as me, and likely that's for the best, but I still feel enormous - unreasonable and unexplained - hurt over this, and seeing her. Ridiculous, really, how much it hurts.

 

I've come to understand her perspective I think. Initially, when this all came to light, a close friend of hers and I chatted, and this friend told me rather coldly that (a) she wasn't talking about me, (b) had been overwhelmed by the attention, © knew this was more for me than it was for her. I did not want to believe it at the time. I had sought and obtained assurances from her that this wasn't made up, she'd made the first overture after all, and wasn't this real...wasn't this something more than a dream?

 

I believe, rationally, now that she was interested in me, and that she did get caught up. I think she did feel overwhelmed and didn't know how to put the brakes on things. I believe she was putting the brakes on, and it would have stopped, but for the intervention on the part of our colleague, who sealed the fate. This makes sense in retrospect, because her reaction has always been quite cool - MIND YOU, she is cool, placid exterior, and lots brewing underneath - but quite cool, non chalant about the whole incident. I thought part of that was dealing with her spouse and controlling things on her end. Sadly, I have come to believe it just wasn't there for her...was I really driving this bus?

 

I have been a mess. I spent many days trying to figure out how I could make this all better, patch things up and return as friends. I spent many weeks after that imagining how I could win her back. Sad, ridiculous. I have spent many weeks coming to realize how much I have hurt my wife, and caused irreparable damage to her self-concept, our marriage and her fundamental trust in me, in all that is good in people. I have spent so much energy, so much time trying to reestablish my centre, a sense of normalcy and a balance to my life. I have been in IC for the first time of my life, and thought seriously about ending it all too many times.

 

And I still spend moments alone, crying my eyes out and feeling empty.

 

I still don't fully understand what the hell went on. I don't really get why I feel this way. But I am hopeful.

 

Moving is going to be the right thing to do. But I can't help but believe I am burying myself in my work, the move and that somewhere down the road I'm going to wake up and realize that I haven't fixed anything.

 

I'm *still* a mess. Gosh, it's been a long time now. Almost a year. I think about her, I think about what happened, I am sad. Wasted time & effort...I know...she's moved on and has replaced any feelings for me with anger and sadness at my inability to move forward; she knows, because I've told her, that my move is partially to respect her and create time & distance. But a lot of time has passed, and I'm still here.

 

I don't want to create the impression I haven't moved at all; I have. Understanding things the way I do now has helped a lot, and realizing that this isn't some magical connection that *should* be but *cannot* be b/c of our marriages and families has helped. It was, in her mind, an error in judgement; I saw it as two people finding one another, but that isn't the truth of it.

 

This would have been, I think, so tremendously more simple if it had been simply sex. It wasn't even!!! I don't know, truly, what it was, but I got deeply involved...irrationally so...and have been trying to extracate myself ever since.

 

The hardest thing I've ever had to do.

[taylor]

Hi U9. Good to hear from you again. But sorry to hear you are still hurting from the affair.

 

I don't think you have given yourself a chance to recover from this affair. How can you while you are still working with the MW, even if you have been NC?

 

Moving away will help you to put this affair in the past..more time...more distance...no visual reminders.

 

Your story is very similar to mine, only in reverse.

 

I was the MW who became overly invested emotionally in the OM. It started like yours. I put alot of time and energy into this man trying to make him feel good about himself. When I looked in his eyes, they said, "Help. Somebody save me." My heart was full of empathy for this man and I reached out to him.

 

When you DO alot for someone, driven by feelings of empathy, it's easy to form a deep emotional attachment to that person. Like you, sexual attraction played a small part. It's the emotional attachment that is hard to let go of.

 

My OM was not as emotionally invested as I was because he was on the receiving end. He kept coming back for more because I made him feel good. That, in turn, made me feel good. It fed itself.

 

Like you, I let this other person become important to me. Letting go of someone who is important to you...someone you truly care about..IS hard.

 

Like you, my affair ended sometime in the spring, so we are kind of on the same timeline. The difference is I have not seen or talked to the OM for over 6 months. It helped tremendously.

 

Are you in counseling? I hope so. Counseling can help you figure out why you had this NEED to reach out to another woman other than your wife. Counseling can help you figure out why you felt so EMPTY and can help you overcome this feeling. You filled this void with an affair. That was wrong. You know that now. Me too. A therapist can help you find ways to fill this void.

 

How are things going with your wife? Are you working on your marriage?

[Reggie]

Look, this was not just an EA. You made out with this woman. So, it was physcical. Doesn't really matter, but let's be accurate on what it was.

I agree that you seem to focus mainly on your pain and your desire to have a friendship with the other cheater rather than concerning yourself with the damage to your wife.

[taylor]

Look, this was not just an EA. You made out with this woman. So, it was physcical. Doesn't really matter, but let's be accurate on what it was.

I agree that you seem to focus mainly on your pain and your desire to have a friendship with the other cheater rather than concerning yourself with the damage to your wife.

 

Reggie,

 

U9 admitted his affair had a sexual component. It crossed the line from EA to PA.

 

But I think he eludes to the emotional aspect because that is the part of the affair that drove it and it is that part that he is having a hard time letting go.

 

My EA did not cross into a PA, but is nonetheless challenging to disassociate from. It is easier to stay away from someone physically than it is to disengage emotionally, IMO.

 

U9 talks at length in his posts about his failure to disconnect emotionally from this woman. His posts rarely express any uncontrolled desire to rip her clothes off at any chance he gets.

 

I don't think he will be able to turn 100 percent focus on his wife and marriage recovery until he gets through the withdrawal of losing the MW. That means giving up ALL HOPE of any relationship with her FOREVER and developing a genuine renewed desire to reconnect with his wife.

 

It takes time.

[u91746]

Taylor, thanks again for thoughtful and accurate replies. There was a physical aspect to our relationship, and there is a definite attraction there. But it isn't the reason for the relationship. In discussing this with a friend, she mentioned that it might have been harder had we had sex, but that emotional connection, that meeting of needs is at least as hard.

 

I miss her friendship, that sense of connectedness, much more than the physical aspect.

 

It does take time, but I think coming to understand her point of view on all of this has helped too. Relationships, love...really, put blinders on a person and you have a hard time finding yourself, let alone someone else.

 

I think the pain my W has felt through this is also important; she is a wonderful woman, and has been patient, but this morning she ran into OMW at McDonald's and although they just avoided one another, in discussing it with me she has let me know how very much it affected her - bringing into reality rather than something distantly remembered - and how sad it made her.

 

Thanks for the thoughts. This is getting better.

[jj33]

Im glad you are feeling better about things. Its always interesting to me to read your posts and see the MMs perspective. And the idea that it is more of an emotional loss than a physical loss makes so much sense. If sex is all that is sought that is easy enough to find.

 

MM keeps trying to start things up again and then when I say no its too difficult to be in an A he suggests we have a less emotional but physical relationship. Well its been well over a year, so I dont buy that. It seems to me that he just wont own up to the emotions. Since he is not plannning to leave, he needs to pretend his feelings are less than they are. Maybe I am just flattering myself, I dont know.

[Reggie]

I doubt you have a full appreciation for the amount of pain your wife is expieriencing. No one deserves this type of cruelty.

If you do have an appreciation , why re you so focused on your own feelings? Why have you had additional contact with this woman if you know it hurts your wife?