Affair revealed - obsessing still...

[taylor]

I am suggesting we give this OP reasons for WANTING to stay and to put the effort in. He is searching for a reason to go or stay. Sounds like he is very much leaning towards going since the OW is getting a divorce.

 

Thanks for the kind words, PKN. I, too, have many to thank on this board as I continue my journey.

 

I totally agree the OP needs to make a decision based on sound reason.

 

And it does seem he "returned" to his wife because the OW rejected him. His wife appears to be Plan B.

 

This has become even more evident now that the OW is divorcing. He sees a possible opportunity with her...so again the wife appears to be Plan B.

 

If this is the case, U9, please set your wife free. She deserves to be someone's Plan A. Your decision to stay or go should not hinge on the availability of the OW, but on how much you value your marriage, period.

[taylor]

I am skeptical of this because I tried it. Did not work for me, made the wife happy and made her feel everything was OK. But it was/is not in my head. No amount of giving changed that, FYI I still do it to make her happy. Does little to nothing for me, so I am skeptical of the blanket statement that this works.

 

The "fake it until you make it" is totally valid, if you have a base to start from.

Along with true motivation to save things. You can be married without "love" and still have a "loving" marriage.

 

It's true. You do have to have a true motivation to save something you value.

 

A question for you PKN. How much effort is your wife putting into your marriage to affair-proof it? Is she motivated to save the marriage? Working to save the marriage is a joint effort. You can't do it alone.

 

In a previous post you mention your needs:

 

A physically attractive wife

A physically active wife.

Light-hearted conversation.

Good sex.

A willingness to compromise on child-rearing.

 

What steps has your wife taken to meet these needs. Your desire for her will also hinge on her willingness to do kind and loving acts to meet your needs as well. You will not get too far in marital recovery if you are the only one taking deliberate action to be kinder and more loving to your partner. Both need to be active in meeting each other's needs.

 

I get the feeling your wife is not motivated to improve the marriage even though it's what you need to be happy in it.

 

Has she made any attempt to address the needs you listed above?

 

And if not, why?

 

Are you both just settling into a loveless marriage because it's easier than working on it? Are you settling because you are just giving up...lost all hope? Not sure how your affair ended, but would you say your wife is Plan B? Would you have left your wife for the OW if there was that opportunity? And how does your wife feel about being in a loveless marriage? She doesn't miss the intimacy/emotional connection?

 

Like you, the OP appears to be staying in a marriage he is not happy in...for over a year.

[Owl]

Obsessing about the affair and actually being in one and moving on are two TOTALLY different things. One does not relate to another, I would never tell a BS how to get past an affair, I have no context on how to. But BS seem to feel they can go the other way. Yes the general concept of NC, MC, IC are all GREAT but the "grow up", "think of your wife" etc.... Those mean little to a WS that has just started the journey let alone someone like the OP that is still caught up in the "what if's". This OP needs reasons to STAY with is wife and family, other than the idea of "look at the pain you have caused your wife." He needs POSITIVE reasons for keeping his family together and the BENEFITS of why it is better to stay than go.

 

Here's the thing...straight up.

 

You couldn't tell a BS how to get past an affair...you've not done it, nor have you seen it happen.

 

You can't tell this OP how to get past the affair either...because you never SUCCESSFULLY did so either.

 

I can pretty confidantly help a BS learn how to get past the affair...because I've done so.

 

I can, pretty confidantly, help a poster from EITHER side recover their marriage...because I've lived through that too.

 

I can give decent guidance on what it takes for a WS to "get over" the affair as well...because I've discussed in great length what it took for my wife to do it, and I've also discussed this in great length with a large number of other WS's on what worked or didn't work for them.

 

You're basing your advice solely on your own experience...which was far from successful. You can give great advice on how NOT to recover...but as far as how to successfully recover...you have no frame of reference. Your best advice is simply to tell them not to repeat what you've done.

 

BS's who have participated actively in a successful marital recovery would be completely capable of assisting a WS in learning how to "get over" their affair...they've probably helped nurse their own spouse through this same activity.

 

Hence my advice to the OP...about the steps he needs to take to get to the point he's stated he wanted to be...recovering his marriage.

 

He needs to change his actions and behaviors so that his emotions will follow...exactly as I suggested to Taylor months ago.

[pkn06002]

It's true. You do have to have a true motivation to save something you value.

 

A question for you PKN. How much effort is your wife putting into your marriage to affair-proof it? Is she motivated to save the marriage? Working to save the marriage is a joint effort. You can't do it alone.

 

In a previous post you mention your needs:

 

A physically attractive wife

A physically active wife.

Light-hearted conversation.

Good sex.

A willingness to compromise on child-rearing.

 

What steps has your wife taken to meet these needs. Your desire for her will also hinge on her willingness to do kind and loving acts to meet your needs as well. You will not get too far in marital recovery if you are the only one taking deliberate action to be kinder and more loving to your partner. Both need to be active in meeting each other's needs.

 

I get the feeling your wife is not motivated to improve the marriage even though it's what you need to be happy in it.

 

Has she made any attempt to address the needs you listed above?

 

And if not, why?

 

Are you both just settling into a loveless marriage because it's easier than working on it? Are you settling because you are just giving up...lost all hope? Not sure how your affair ended, but would you say your wife is Plan B? Would you have left your wife for the OW if there was that opportunity? And how does your wife feel about being in a loveless marriage? She doesn't miss the intimacy/emotional connection?

 

Like you, the OP appears to be staying in a marriage he is not happy in...for over a year.

 

Ah Taylor you are very good at getting to the heart of the issue. Tell you what I don't want to take this OP's thread. I can start another thread to answer you.

 

But yes I can relate to this OP, I could've written his posts. He is in a tough spot. I have made my choice he needs to make his.

 

The limbo comment that someone made is spot on and one the OP needs to take into account. Because no action in this leads to nothing.

[NewSunrise]

And it does seem he "returned" to his wife because the OW rejected him. His wife appears to be Plan B.

 

This has become even more evident now that the OW is divorcing. He sees a possible opportunity with her...so again the wife appears to be Plan B.

IMO I think u9 is secretly waiting for his OW to make the decision for him---to leave his marriage. His obsession over the OW had made him oblivious to what his wife is going through. His marriage has turned into a safety net.

 

Why risk losing it all if his OW hasn't given him the green light?

 

No human in this mental capacity should drag people so close to him into his obsession. His wife and kids don't deserve this. He doesn't deserve his wife.

[Owl]

I don't see how to convince the OP to save his marriage.

 

On the contrary...if he's not willing to truly put any effort into it...he needs to file for divorce.

 

He indicated that he'd ALREADY decided to reconcile (bought his wife a diamond necklace as a symbol)...then he let himself get sucked back into the whole thing by resuming contact with the OW.

 

An action that caused a resurgence of his emotions.

 

So I suggest that he take ACTION to get his emotions back under control.

 

He needs to reestablish NC with OW...completely, totally, and irrevocably.

 

And...he needs to work on how to deal with the withdrawl that he'll feel as a result of that. (that 'changing the channel thing again).

 

He needs to make up his mind...pick one goal...and then make his actions follow his goal.

 

He needs to quit allowing himself to get confused...and that's EXACTLY what's happening here...he's not holding himself responsible for his actions.

 

This is his best chance for recovery...one way or another.

[NewSunrise]

Ah Taylor you are very good at getting to the heart of the issue. Tell you what I don't want to take this OP's thread. I can start another thread to answer you.

 

But yes I can relate to this OP, I could've written his posts. He is in a tough spot. I have made my choice he needs to make his.

 

The limbo comment that someone made is spot on and one the OP needs to take into account. Because no action in this leads to nothing.

Making REAL LIFE decisions are tough. But that's life.

 

Yet, too often, people take the easy way out trampling over those closest to them.

[pkn06002]

Ah Owl,

 

Why so defensive?

 

Again wanting to make it personal and TJ, lets not do that to this OP's thread.

 

Here's the thing...straight up.

 

You couldn't tell a BS how to get past an affair...you've not done it, nor have you seen it happen.

 

You can't tell this OP how to get past the affair either...because you never SUCCESSFULLY did so either.

 

I can pretty confidantly help a BS learn how to get past the affair...because I've done so.

 

I can, pretty confidantly, help a poster from EITHER side recover their marriage...because I've lived through that too.

 

I can give decent guidance on what it takes for a WS to "get over" the affair as well...because I've discussed in great length what it took for my wife to do it, and I've also discussed this in great length with a large number of other WS's on what worked or didn't work for them.

 

It is your opinion that I have not SUCCESSFULLY gotten past my affair? I don't share your opinion, because it is wrong. I am past my affair and on to marriage issues that were there way before my affair. New ones that have shown up since. So I CAN tell a WS how to get past an affair. I can suggest how to loose those everyday thoughts about the other person, how to get past the "what if's". But that is only part of the journey after an affair, not the whole thing.

 

I CANNOT tell them how to reconcile successfully with their spouse but then again that is a different topic. Which yes you are more experienced in giving advice on. But going by your statements people like Reggie, Dexter etc... should not be commenting since they ended up divorced. Are you going to tell them the same thing you just told me?

 

Your advice on how a WS can get past an affair is what based on your PERSONAL experience, which is better than mine how? Your wife's was an internet affair with NO PA component right? Let me tell you when you combine an EA with a PA you get a combination that is WAY PAST what your wife experienced. So what worked for your wife and you may not work for other people, so the reason other opinions are valid. Oh and yes for this particular OP I could've written his posts so I think I have a good idea where his head is at.

 

You're basing your advice solely on your own experience...which was far from successful. You can give great advice on how NOT to recover...but as far as how to successfully recover...you have no frame of reference. Your best advice is simply to tell them not to repeat what you've done.

 

Bashing advice??? Considering I am agreeing with the posters here that he needs to move on or commit(whatever that means). Tell me how that is bashing?

 

BS's who have participated actively in a successful marital recovery would be completely capable of assisting a WS in learning how to "get over" their affair...they've probably helped nurse their own spouse through this same activity.

 

Hence my advice to the OP...about the steps he needs to take to get to the point he's stated he wanted to be...recovering his marriage.

 

He needs to change his actions and behaviors so that his emotions will follow...exactly as I suggested to Taylor months ago.

 

 

YOU are doing nothing but repeating the "marriage builders" model, which worked for you(GREAT). But that does not mean it works for everyone. I tried it but I did not get the same results, that you did. Taylor (as you have seen discussed on this thread with me) had a reason to WANT to change her behavior and actions, so her's was successful. This OP does not seem to have that same DESIRE. Without that desire marriage builders does not work from the get go. Even Dr. Harley says that not all marriages can be saved.

 

So how about instead of focusing on me and my posts you give this OP reasons to WANT TO STAY and work on his marriage? Give him concrete reasons why he would want to do those little acts of kindness that could lead back to a loving marriage.

 

Because this guy is in limbo and needs help.

[whichwayisup]

Bashing advice??? Considering I am agreeing with the posters here that he needs to move on or commit(whatever that means). Tell me how that is bashing?

He didn't say bashing, he said basing.

[Owl]

I've provided my advice to the OP...and am waiting to see his response.

 

BTW...I said "you are basing"...not "you are bashing". Big difference.

 

This isn't personal against you, PKN. Its simply responding to your comments about BS's giving advice to recovering(?) WS's.

 

You feel that they don't have the frame of reference to do so. I provided to you why I feel that they do. 'nuff said.

[pkn06002]

I re-read that several times and keep inserting the extra 'h'.

 

My apologies

 

I never said that BS's opinion/advice were invalid. But they are different than those of a WS, because of the shared experience.

 

I just feel that the BS's view is NOT the only one on how to handle this that's all.

 

Enough of that, agreed

[NewSunrise]

I don't see how to convince the OP to save his marriage.

 

On the contrary...if he's not willing to truly put any effort into it...he needs to file for divorce.

 

He indicated that he'd ALREADY decided to reconcile (bought his wife a diamond necklace as a symbol)...then he let himself get sucked back into the whole thing by resuming contact with the OW.

 

An action that caused a resurgence of his emotions.

 

So I suggest that he take ACTION to get his emotions back under control.

 

He needs to reestablish NC with OW...completely, totally, and irrevocably.

 

And...he needs to work on how to deal with the withdrawl that he'll feel as a result of that. (that 'changing the channel thing again).

 

He needs to make up his mind...pick one goal...and then make his actions follow his goal.

 

He needs to quit allowing himself to get confused...and that's EXACTLY what's happening here...he's not holding himself responsible for his actions.

 

This is his best chance for recovery...one way or another.

The problem is he hasn't made up his mind. In his mind (powerful beast) has made him hung onto something that which is not (reality). He dissects and deciphers every flippin thing the OW says, does not say or is probably saying. This dude is lost in the abyss of his own obssessive emotions. He may also be in denial over the fact that the OW has actually moved on. At least she seemd to by his account.

 

He may excercise NC for another year when he thinks the OW is with another man? But if the OW contacts him, the obsession won't change. He's tried it and failed miserably. Call it relapse. It's still a failure of committment.

 

He won't make up his mind until the OW makes it for him---tell him to either get out of her life OR be with her. Personally, the OW has got him tied around her little finger----emotionally.

 

People who are obsessed can't see the trees behind the forest. So it will take some "external" force to make it for them. That external force will either be the OW or his Wife. It's just a matter of time.

[whichwayisup]

I just feel that the BS's view is NOT the only one on how to handle this that's all.

 

But at the end of the day, it's the type of advice that really sinks in when the person is ready to hear it. Just go look at the "thank you" threads in the OW/OM section. Most of the TY's are to BS's and to those who were more harsh than the hand holding ones.

[Owl]

The problem is he hasn't made up his mind. In his mind (powerful beast) has made him hung onto something that which is not (reality). He dissects and deciphers every flippin thing the OW says, does not say or is probably saying. This dude is lost in the abyss of his own obssessive emotions. He may also be in denial over the fact that the OW has actually moved on. At least she seemd to by his account.

 

He may excercise NC for another year when he thinks the OW is with another man? But if the OW contacts him, the obsession won't change. He's tried it and failed miserably. Call it relapse. It's still a failure of committment.

 

He won't make up his mind until the OW makes it for him---tell him to either get out of her life OR be with her. Personally, the OW has got him tied around her little finger----emotionally.

 

People who are obsessed can't see the trees behind the forest. So it will take some "external" force to make it for them. That external force will either be the OW or his Wife. It's just a matter of time.

 

I agree. He's obsessing on the OW. To the extent of ignoring what this is doing to his marriage, or for his feelings for his wife, or to anything else.

 

Pretty much standard WS script...they tend to do this most of the time.

 

The only way to get out of that script is to remove the players, and re-write the lines.

 

Hence, NC...FOR LIFE.

 

And it requires action to prevent the OW from contacting him again as a part of that measure.

 

It requires him to take action here...and at this point, it's almost "on faith".

 

Taylor went through this exactly, several months ago. I've seen a lot of posters go through this same process here as well over the years.

 

It can be done...

[jj33]

Yes its a year but he has had the courage to be honest. This is a very tough board for a BS to post about being in love with the OW.

 

Its a classic conundrum - do I stay even though I am staying for the marriage and not my spouse? He is not the first nor will he be the last to have to make this decision.

 

And since he has a good friendship with his W, does he leave when he is walking out into the abyss.

 

He has noone waiting on the other side, he might if he leaves - thats an open question.

 

Yes its been a year, yes it must be awful for his wife, I cant even imagine how awful it must be to look into his eyes and know he would prefer I were someone else. And yes its likely if he doesnt make up his mind that either his W or the OW will make a decision for him.

 

But that doesnt make his confusion invalid. Its one of the biggest decisions he will ever make in his life. Everyone copes differently. Everyone has their own process.

 

At this point, saving the marriage is not at the forefront of his mind. But he didnt post asking how to save the marriage. At least that was not my take on it.

 

Noone can tell you how to throw yourself into something with all of your heart. Its something that you do if you want to do it, or you do it even though you dont want to do it (the fake it til you make it point) but in either case, you have to be motivated to do that.

[pkn06002]

But at the end of the day, it's the type of advice that really sinks in when the person is ready to hear it. Just go look at the "thank you" threads in the OW/OM section. Most of the TY's are to BS's and to those who were more harsh than the hand holding ones.

 

Tell you what how many of those people return??

 

I got advice like that when I started all of this. I went to the marriage builders site which is brutal to a WS(this place is nice compared to here). All those 2x4's yes made me think but not in a positive way. They did NOT make me value my marriage more and to make me WANT to recover. They made me only think of the OW more because I was defending her.

 

Getting people to stop an affair and to get them to see that their MM/MW is using them is different than trying to convince someone to WANT to stay in a marriage. Yes harsh words are sometimes needed to get someone to see that. So I can see why that works sometimes in the OW/OM forum.

 

But harsh words to encourage reconciliation??? Tell me how many threads have you seen here in the last month where people leave, because of the abuse??? I have seen several.

 

WS that are looking for help want just that help, not abuse and harsh words. They get abused they are just going to log off and never return.

 

If they are out of the affair they need constructive help to

 

1) Get past the feelings of the affair. Hint telling them to forget the OW and move on is not an answer. As Taylor said a whole lot easier said than done.

 

2) Get help on trying to remember reasons to WANT your marriage or how to get the courage to end it. The second part this OP needs.

 

3) Get help on what to do to reconcile.

[Owl]

PKN, you raise a good point about talking about the OW/OM.

 

And, FWIW one of the main reasons I left marriagebuilders after years of posting there was the sheer venom...and its why I tend to suggest posters avoid the forums, both WS and BS. The mindset they try to create is NOT "marriage building".

 

But your comment about "defending the OW" is a good one. It's why I don't suggest anyone 'bash' the OP/OM or the WS...because it does exactly that. It makes their partner leap to their defense...it makes them want to think about all the positives, and avoid thinking about the negatives. It has the exact opposite effect that the "basher" hoped to attain.

 

On your other comments:

 

If they are out of the affair they need constructive help to

 

1) Get past the feelings of the affair. Hint telling them to forget the OW and move on is not an answer. As Taylor said a whole lot easier said than done.

 

2) Get help on trying to remember reasons to WANT your marriage or how to get the courage to end it. The second part this OP needs.

 

3) Get help on what to do to reconcile

 

1. I agree...you can't tell them to forget about the OW. But...suggesting to them that they begin working to change how they think is NOT out of the question...its the right tack to take. They have to CATCH themselves thinking about the OW...and then when they do...INTENTIONALLY "change the channel" and focus on something else. They have to stop letting themselves obsess...they have to intentionally WORK to change their thought patterns. It's not telling them to "forget about her"...it's telling them to stop letting themselves FOCUS on her. There's a distinction...and...that advice is entirely doable...IF THEY WANT TO CHANGE.

 

2. Because of the "re-writing of marital history"...there is no way you can get them to focus on the positives of their marriage. They've re-written them out of their conscious memory. They'll tell themselves that there WERE no positives, or that they were too little/small/etc...to even remember. The trick here is to FIRST remove the influence of the affair partner. It's like treating "highway blindess"...the first step is to get their eyes off the road...off the thing that they're totally focused on. Then, after time, they suffer through the withdrawl of the end of the affair. They start to resume thinking, instead of just feeling. THEN they can start to assess what they want to do...but it's impossible to get them to that point without first removing the thing that they're focused on to begin with.

 

They have to CHOOSE to try before they can decide whether or not its worth the effort...as silly as that sounds.

 

3. Agreed.

[Owl]

I wanted to add something to this too...

 

My wife had the same mindset shortly after her affair that you've described, PKN.

 

She told our MC at the time that she didn't know if she wanted to work on the marriage or not...she'd "wait and see".

 

Our MC told her point blank that she was setting everything up to fail, and if that was the only thing she'd consider, we'd be best off not coming back to counseling.

 

That MC compared it to having the desire for a new house, and waiting to see if one would build itself.

 

You get a new house by CHOOSING to build it first. Then you do the hard work needed to build it...THEN you get to move in.

 

The OP can't do ANYTHING until he either chooses to work on his marriage, or chooses to divorce.

 

He can't wait and see if his marriage is worth fighting for.

 

He has to commit to trying to rebuild it FIRST...and then find out if it can survive or not.

 

And he's not going to listen to us sing the praises of his marriage...just like defending the OW...he'll just respond with all the reasons why he should end it and be with her. He'll take all of our responses and use them to show why the OW is his better choice...whether or not that's actually the case.

 

He has to take action first...THEN he'll see where he needs to go.

[pkn06002]

Owl,

All very true, the OP has to make a choice and stick with it.

 

 

To be fair to you OWL:

I don't doubt your wife had the feelings you describe, I didn't mean to belittle that. I am was just trying to get across that when you do the magic combination of EA + PA it makes something that is very difficult to shake. Much more than just an EA, you don't have those sensory memories to overcome as well. Add a length of time into it and it gets even worse.

[Owl]

Owl,

All very true, the OP has to make a choice and stick with it.

 

 

To be fair to you OWL:

I don't doubt your wife had the feelings you describe, I didn't mean to belittle that. I am was just trying to get across that when you do the magic combination of EA + PA it makes something that is very difficult to shake. Much more than just an EA, you don't have those sensory memories to overcome as well. Add a length of time into it and it gets even worse.

 

I can see your point, PKN. And it's hard to decide which is worse, to be honest.

 

Think about it for a second...which...from a BS perspective...is harder to beat?

 

The EA + PA which had all those sensory memories you mention...the "whole package" if you will.

 

Or the "fantasy" of an unrequited EA? Where you're not dealing with actual sensory memories, but the fantasy of the "what ifs"? Where the other person never had the chance to screw up by introducing reality into the picture?

 

I might have been able to compete with a "real man"...but what I wasn't competing with the "real OM"...I was competing with her mental picture, her perception, her fantasy of OM based off the ideal picture of himself that he painted for her via the internet/phone. (and he had to cope with the loss of that same 'fantasy' of her as well when it was all done)

 

I think it's easier for me to forgive her EA, since it never went PA, and I don't have to contend with any mental pictures. But I'm not sure that it was easier for her to end the affair based on the EA vs PA...does that make sense to you?

[jj33]

It makes sense to me Owl but if you are actually in a PA you know its not just a fantasy of what the person is like you know the good things you know the imperfections and in some cases you love them anyway.

 

I can understand that if you are competing with an illusion its all speculation and the fantasy can always be perfect. But when you are in something that is both PA and EA and there are elements that are lacking in a marriage its more difficult. You have ACTUALLY experienced it. Its not your imagination. What the future of the relationship would hold is only speculation, but the good things that you have in fact experienced together are not.

 

A man I know who was in an A explained it as if he suddenly stood in the sun and afterwards it was hard to get back to living without the sunshine. He is and he does but he still claims the OW is the love of his life. His W is a good woman, he cares for her well being but they dont share the same relationship he did with the OW.

[pkn06002]

I can see your point, PKN. And it's hard to decide which is worse, to be honest.

 

Think about it for a second...which...from a BS perspective...is harder to beat?

 

The EA + PA which had all those sensory memories you mention...the "whole package" if you will.

 

Or the "fantasy" of an unrequited EA? Where you're not dealing with actual sensory memories, but the fantasy of the "what ifs"? Where the other person never had the chance to screw up by introducing reality into the picture?

 

I might have been able to compete with a "real man"...but what I wasn't competing with the "real OM"...I was competing with her mental picture, her perception, her fantasy of OM based off the ideal picture of himself that he painted for her via the internet/phone. (and he had to cope with the loss of that same 'fantasy' of her as well when it was all done)

 

I think it's easier for me to forgive her EA, since it never went PA, and I don't have to contend with any mental pictures. But I'm not sure that it was easier for her to end the affair based on the EA vs PA...does that make sense to you?

 

I understand your part of it, that makes sense.

 

In her case ignorance is bliss. Trust me on that.

Especially if the affair does not run it's course and is found out(which causes the end). Then you get the whole package with the added bonus of the fantasy because you never got to see the bad stuff.

 

I wonder if that is what the OP is hanging on too. I have not read all of this posts. Was the affair found out and stopped?

[tami-chan]

Here's the thing...straight up.

 

You couldn't tell a BS how to get past an affair...you've not done it, nor have you seen it happen.

 

You can't tell this OP how to get past the affair either...because you never SUCCESSFULLY did so either.

 

I can pretty confidantly help a BS learn how to get past the affair...because I've done so.

 

I can, pretty confidantly, help a poster from EITHER side recover their marriage...because I've lived through that too.

 

I can give decent guidance on what it takes for a WS to "get over" the affair as well...because I've discussed in great length what it took for my wife to do it, and I've also discussed this in great length with a large number of other WS's on what worked or didn't work for them.

 

You're basing your advice solely on your own experience...which was far from successful. You can give great advice on how NOT to recover...but as far as how to successfully recover...you have no frame of reference. Your best advice is simply to tell them not to repeat what you've done.

 

BS's who have participated actively in a successful marital recovery would be completely capable of assisting a WS in learning how to "get over" their affair...they've probably helped nurse their own spouse through this same activity.

 

Hence my advice to the OP...about the steps he needs to take to get to the point he's stated he wanted to be...recovering his marriage.

 

He needs to change his actions and behaviors so that his emotions will follow...exactly as I suggested to Taylor months ago.

 

Owl, with due respect, don't you think your statements above are a little on the arrogant side? You are kind of full of yourself....no one on this board has the same exact experience as you did or have. I mean, whoah! you are a little drunk of your own success in overcoming the infidelity in your marriage. Careful now...the fall from grace, I heard is very painful.....

[NewSunrise]

Owl, with due respect, don't you think your statements above are a little on the arrogant side? You are kind of full of yourself....no one on this board has the same exact experience as you did or have. I mean, whoah! you are a little drunk of your own success in overcoming the infidelity in your marriage. Careful now...the fall from grace, I heard is very painful.....

Arrogant? On the contrary, his frankness and openness about his experience and suggestions on what it takes to recover a marriage is admirable when it's been tainted by infidelity. He's one of few whose marriage remain intact.

 

After all, advice/suggestions are more valuable from those who have actually been through the grinder.

 

I'm sure he has a soft side...

[Owl]

Owl, with due respect, don't you think your statements above are a little on the arrogant side? You are kind of full of yourself....no one on this board has the same exact experience as you did or have. I mean, whoah! you are a little drunk of your own success in overcoming the infidelity in your marriage. Careful now...the fall from grace, I heard is very painful.....

 

Call it what you like. Arrogant, condescending...whatever.

 

If you don't care for my advice, please feel free to use the ignore feature provided by this website. There's no requirement for you to endure my posts if you find them objectionable.