Guilt and forgiving yourself... especially for former OWs/OMs

[Starla]

well nadia, thank God for you!!! it was your posts...your bravery and guts really..that made me think i CAN open up, one day!!!!

it is sooo easy sometimes to think of yourself as isolated, and the only one. it isn't real, but it *IS* easy!!

[KnownTruth]

I am a former OW. I ended affair with MM about a month and a half ago. We are still friends and was before the A. We just communicate through email, we no longer work together and he lives a hour away from me. I have not been tempted to get back together with him. I was tired of dealing with it all. At first I was so excited and happy that I got the courage to end it and I felt refreshed and like anything was possible for my future. Now I have been feeling alot of guilt. I keep asking myself what the hell I was thinking. How could I have done what I did. I have tried to just tell myself it was a part of my life that I don't want to repeat, but that I have learn many lessons on. I think it is just going to take time to stop beating yourself over it. It is very much like the grieving process. Stay strong and just remember that you are in control of your life and what you do now on.

[whichwayisup]

I ended affair with MM about a month and a half ago. We are still friends and was before the A. We just communicate through email,

 

You two really can't go back to being "just" friends. You both crossed the lines and it's only been less than 2 months since you ended the A (physical part of it) by doing emails with him, you're still emotionally attached and involved IN his daily life. I take it you two email daily or is it just once a week? How detailed are your emails? Your heart will never close completely if you have him in your life...Plus, it may get in the way of you finding someone else.

[KnownTruth]

You two really can't go back to being "just" friends. You both crossed the lines and it's only been less than 2 months since you ended the A (physical part of it) by doing emails with him, you're still emotionally attached and involved IN his daily life. I take it you two email daily or is it just once a week? How detailed are your emails? Your heart will never close completely if you have him in your life...Plus, it may get in the way of you finding someone else.

 

 

 

 

Well we have only emailed once in a month and a half. I just wrote about mutual people we know and about the place he use to work and the place I am still at. I don't write anything mushy or anything like that. I don't think he really believes it is over on his part because he does call me, but I chose not to answer or call him back. I made my decision not to cross that line with him and my feelings for him have changed. I no longer love him.

Thank you for your advice. I think it maybe wise to cut all ties at one point.

[nadiaj2727]

Well we have only emailed once in a month and a half. I just wrote about mutual people we know and about the place he use to work and the place I am still at. I don't write anything mushy or anything like that. I don't think he really believes it is over on his part because he does call me, but I chose not to answer or call him back. I made my decision not to cross that line with him and my feelings for him have changed. I no longer love him.

Thank you for your advice. I think it maybe wise to cut all ties at one point.

 

Hi KnownTruth thanks for sharing. I think I remember your posts from awhile ago.

 

I agree with WWIU that it is really hard to let go and move on if MM is still in your life in any way, shape or form. I am not one to talk because I work with xMM and it is killing me. I have tried everything to not work with him -- I switched mentors and completely different practice areas. But I still have to see him around and I still have to work on some of the more established cases with him, and it really, really sucks. I think it is really hindering my progress and I probably feel so much guilt because I have to see him constantly and be reminded of what a fool I was. I also have to see his wife and be reminded of what I did to her. It just sucks.It looks as if I have to get a new job. I can't think of any other solution for a variety of personal reasons related to the affair.

 

I would never email him voluntarily. Maybe you will get to that point eventually. There was a point after first breaking up with him that I wanted to hang on, and see what was happening with his marriage, and wonder if we would have worked out if I hadn't left or if he had gotten divorced sooner, etc. Then I realized that all of that was slow torture, I did what I knew I had to do and I need to walk away from it completely. I just want to leave it in my past and be reminded of it as little as possible. I want to take the good lessons I've learned from it and leave the painful feelings. Talking to him or being around him brings up those painful feelings.

[nadiaj2727]

well nadia, thank God for you!!! it was your posts...your bravery and guts really..that made me think i CAN open up, one day!!!!

it is sooo easy sometimes to think of yourself as isolated, and the only one. it isn't real, but it *IS* easy!!

 

Wow thank you Starla. I'm glad you see me as brave. I'm glad I can help you realize you're not the only one going through this sucky situation.

[SerenityX2]

Nadia,

 

I hope you see the wisness in the well wishes of the posters. You "get it" now and it's a very freeing, enlightening feeling I'm sure.

 

I understand where Frannie said that you are piling undue guilt on yourself, but I also understand with the point you made that he moved out for you...it's natural you would have the residual guilt. You recognize the impact you were having on their lives...no maybe not with a gun to his head, but as OWL has said so many of these ppl are in the fog and making decisions based on the euphoria, and heat of the moment, that's why I don't and will never understand that how when an OW brags or coerces another OW into giving the MM an ultimatum to do this or else ...the OW will walk...how exactly in leaving is that a testament to how much he loves the OW? In my opinion it doesn't. It may show how in the fog and/or spineless MM are. Naturally the MM is infatuated with the OW at that point..however from what I've read, these are guys with low or no moral fiber to them...or else they would have left their "crummy" marriages 1st then moved on. So if this is the kind of guy that some women think are worth fighting for and crying over...I truly feel sorry for them.

 

But I also see that for the most part these "wonderful" guys are liars in one way or another or else the whole ow/mm r'ship can't exist without that in some way. You SEE that now and can help so, so many others see that...seriously you are like a guiding light and you are here at LS for a reason...I really think you are having far greater HUMAN impact than you may realize, not just for the lost posters...but for the "lurkers" that are hurting as well...

 

Nadia, what you've done in the past certainly does not define you...it's molded you and shaped you into who you are which is a very caring, compassionate woman. who does care about others and THAT defines you. Nadia it clearly shows. As clearly as the superficial, smugness shows on others...they aren't fooling others either and are in denial with the whole "oh I am so happy" meanwhile they are stepping on or have stepped on others directly or even indirectly.

 

However I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever that people's bad actions and guilt will most definately come bubbling to the surface it's just a law of nature I guess...denial is a wonderful thing to some...but it's only a matter of time...just b/c it hasn't happened yet and for some it can be YEARS doesn't mean it won't...to everything a season...and for everything a reason even if it's unseen thus far...all will be revealed.(geez that sounds ominous! ) but seriously happiness begets happiness and stepping on others will have consequences...I've seen it too much in both circumstances to not believe it.

 

I've read some similarities with your exMM and my exH and I have to smile...one that comes to mind is the "not married in my mind" bit...yeah I was told that...however as he later told me, he thought it was just a phase he was going through and we'd get back on track! aka...he wanted some on the side and thought that would be the guilt-free ticket to get it. So I thought that it was interesting how vastly difference much of our lives are, including some core beliefs...we do share the be kind to others view point...and how can some just step on others w/no remorse?

 

I've directed others to your posts b/c you've "been there" ...and better see what they're going through...I admit I can have a tough time and think "why"???? are they doing this to themselves and creating their own drama and unhappiness?...but I've learned much through your posts and insights..and that's cool.

 

 

I know that many here don't like that there are people who oppose A's and wonder why they are on this board ..but I read once where the ppl here are really in essence going through their own private hell and need a place where they can be safe, but what speaks to me about that is that they "know" they are deep down unhappy and or lacking self esteem or they wouldn't be here...and they need people like you to give them that light. I like your idea about a diff board for recovering OW/OM's but see that would be preaching to the choir...you kinda have to get out there and get dirty to help those that need it most. I'm resented b/c I've never been an OW therefore automatically get the lovely title of "bs" even though I've long since moved on from that 1st marriage and absolutely wounldn't change a thing if that's the way that I had to become the person I am today. Would I have "liked" a different/easier path? Sure if it would have brought me "here"...but if this is what it took to get me to have the true appreciation for the beauty of this life and all that's in it...then I'll take the pain. It's brought far more pleasure than I thought existed or was possible here on earth.

 

I've been chastised for telling people that they will find their true happiness when I speak of how blessed I am in my 2nd marriage b/c it gives the impression of false hope...however I do believe you will find your peace and happiness...I do believe that all people have a brighter future awaiting them, it just may take time and more reshaping to be ready for that moment...but no matter what the pain and how hard the struggle it will always be worth it.

 

It's good you recognize that any major decision (such as telling your exmm w of the A) needs to have a peace surrounding it. Even though you and I come from different spectrums as I am God centered and I understand that isn't you..I think that "peace" thing can hopefully be universal. That's the biggest and best thing that I've learned on my journey thus far is that any decision...work related, life related etc...should always have peace flowing around it....that's how you know it's the right thing...if you are struggling...or if you are torn it's not the right thing...If you "think" you are happy for the "most" part but are unhappy/crying/guilt ridden (but trying to squash it down) it's the wrong thing...

 

I'm learning the older I get... life in all it's complexities truly is "simple" we muck it up and make it complicated and drama filled unnecessarily...it doesn't and shouldn't have to be that way...I'd love for others to see that but I understand it has to be at their time and pace but it's a shame, b/c I really wish for everyone to have this kind of peace in their lives...like I've said before..you're always going to have day to day stuff...but your r'ships and who you are inside should also be your haven and source of comfort.

 

Nadia, I wish you all the best...I have no doubt you will achieve all that you desire with time and patience..be kind to yourself....you've walked through the fire, forgiven yourself....now BELIEVE it....it's true...guilt can be a mighty debilitator...however in small doses it helps us realize we have a conscience therefore it keeps us in check...just don't dwell on that b/c it's easy to do and can be immobilizing...realize you've gotten to that other side, embrace it and cherish it for all it's taught you.

 

You realize that no r'ship/M can be built on something that started with lies...no matter if they're past lies...regardless of who the lies were to, you're dealing with a liar...that doesn't change (b/c there's always excuses (valid of course! ) as to why the lies... but nevertheless those are huge cracks that will eventually swallow a r'ship. You may not be at the exact point yet, or may doubt it but b/c of what you went through trust me when I say you will know if you've met a man or honor or another liar...and unfortunately you may meet more liars...but listen to that inner voice that you are honing so well...you WILL know...I can read your insights and therefore although I don't know you...I have a small peak inside your heart...you are at the point that you will know...just trust it...like I said, take it back to that "peace" thing...you'll know.

 

Gold is tested in fire

 

Peace

[nadiaj2727]

Thank you Serenity for your kind post.

 

Yes, I do recognize the impact my action had on their lives and marriage. I wish I could undo it, for my own sake as well as theirs. I think my biggest problem has been wishing I could undo the past and make it like it never happened. I am beginning to understand that forgiveness doesn't mean undoing the past or forgetting it, because that is impossible. I was a person who did that. Now I am a person who would not do that. So forgiveness is more about accepting myself as a person who made a bad decision that I would have made differently had I known how. Now I know how, and I will not make that bad decision anymore. So I can love myself as someone who has learned from who I once was, and became a better person now because of it.

 

You said:

I'm resented b/c I've never been an OW therefore automatically get the lovely title of "bs" even though I've long since moved on from that 1st marriage.

 

I don't understand why BS are given the title of bitter and their opinions aren't taken seriously. To me, we are all people (usually, all women) dealing with issues involving infidelity. To me, the choice to have an affair affects everyone, and the people who DIDN'T choose to have an affair (the betrayed spouse) have every right to come show us their point of view about how it affects them. When I heard from BS I was like "Wow, my actions affect someone else besides me and MM," I was humbled and floored. So I am glad that BS are here. I think people are sometimes so focused on themselves that they refuse to acknowledge that their own actions can negatively impact other human beings, other women... and that is just so sad.

 

I think that's why some OW hate BS -- it REMINDS them that they aren't in a self-centered bubble, it reminds them that they should not be doing something that hurts someone else, so they want BS to go away, or they blame all their actions on BS, like "I wouldn't have to sleep with her husband if she didn't neglect him or verbally abuse him"... oh please. It reminds them that they and they alone are personally responsible for their actions, and blaming someone else is no excuse. Or, if they are good people, it shows them the hurt their actions can cause and it makes them start thinking that they should stop. I truly believe that no one can be a good person who is actively helping to deceive someone else and participating in something that is hurtful to them. Some here disagree with me but that is my stance and I am really glad that BS are here to show the other side of the painful puzzle.

 

And regarding your last paragraph... yes, I want a relationship that started in honesty and love, not lies and lust. Even if it had "worked out", I would always be keeping track of him to make sure he wasn't doing the same thing to me. That is no way to have a relationship. I am just as convinced that a man who cheats with you will cheat on you, UNLESS he does some serious soul-searching and changes his ways. That is very rare indeed and I really don't think it can be done with the affair partner still in the picture.

 

I don't have enough time to respond to everything in your post right now so I just wanted to say those things and say thanks. I'm glad you've found peace.

[IWALH]

Are there any former OPs (or current OPs, I guess) who feel really guilty that they were apart of an affair?

 

I was an OW and I am roughly 4 months out of the affair, which I called off despite xMM's protests and promises (none of which panned out, of course). I broke it off for so many reasons, mostly realizing that he had been lying to me and feeling stupid, and realizing that his wife didn't want a divorce like he said she did from the beginning, and feeling guilty about that. I guess it boiled down to me feeling miserable about the way I was living, and realizing that I was the other woman and the full extent of that. Once I realized it, I didn't want to be the other woman or be with a man who had absolutely no problem cheating on his wife, because he justified it in so many different ways. I realized he was leading a double life and I was helping him do it, and that I was leading a double life to be with him.

 

I'm so glad I broke off the affair but I can't seem to get past the fact that I was apart of one. Sometimes I feel that that very bad decision defines me -- that I will always be someone who was one a married man's lover. I feel sick to my stomach when I think about what I did and how selfish I was. And I feel so bad when I see his wife (that is part of the problem I guess... having to see xMM a lot and his wife sometimes). I often want to apologize to her and tell her how sorry I am... yet, she doesn't know about the affair so I know that would just be creating more drama. Yet I feel like I did something horribly wrong to someone and I can never get past that.

 

I want to move on and leave this in my past. I don't want to be defined by my decision to partake in an affair. I know I can't ever completely forget about it, but I would like to be able to forgive myself and to realize that it was a bad decision I made at one point, that I have learned from it and that I will never do it again. I know those things in my head -- that I have more self-respect now and more respect for other women, that just wondering if a married man is flirting with me makes my stomach churn, and that I've been hurt and hurt others by this too much to do it again. I'm also in counseling which has helped me realize that I had some self esteem issues that I was looking to xMM to solve for me. I know for sure that I will only look to myself for happiness from now on and that I will never be with a committed person again, but in my heart I can't forgive myself for ever doing it in the first place.

 

Does anyone else feel this way? Has anyone felt such guilt and then managed to forgive yourself, and if so, how? I was talking in another thread about how nice it would be if there was a forum for *ex* OWs/ OMs to discuss the issues we face (mine being guilt), so it was suggested I started a thread on the subject.

 

YES!! It's the worst feeling in the world. I still haven't forgiven myself. Hopefully one of these days...

 

Prior to my "affair" I always looked down on people who engaged themselves in them. Then, after seeing things from a new perspective (the perspective of an OW) and hearing/believing all the lies that came out of his mouth and seeing how truly manipulative a person can be... then I understood.

 

Anyway, yeah... the guilt is there and it's not going away any time soon...

[phoenixgirl]

Guilt? What guilt? :/

 

Oh yeah, I'm chock-full of it. It's a big reason why our relationship had been so on-again-off-again these last months, it's why I got my butt into therapy last October/November, it's why I cut out the physical part our relationship long before we ever officially ended it (and why he continued to stick around after that, I'll never know)...

 

I too learned that self-esteem had a lot to do with my getting involved with MM in the first place. And after doing a lot of research and personal training/education (not to get too Freudian here), I also realized that a lot of it had to do with not having a consistent father figure growing up - that may be a recurring theme for some OWs too. So in therapy, I'm working on improving my self-esteem, being more confident and assertive, and utilizing more effective coping skills when it seems like that stupid "OMG I can't live without him" mentality is getting too overwhelming.

 

I know what I did to his W. She knows too, and when I lay in bed at night and cry about not being with him (even though he hasn't gone home yet), I do wonder how many times she laid in bed at night and cried after she kicked him after D-Day. I love him with all my heart and want to be with him, but she had a life with him for six years. I know the stories of their bad marriage - not from him, so don't think I'm falling for his "lies" - but that doesn't make what I did any better and it doesn't justify my actions. If they divorce, she's the strong kind of woman that will move on with her life but for this amount of time, I still helped to cause her irreparable pain... maybe the kind of pain that will make it difficult for her to be happy or trusting in future relationships. I absolutely believe in karma and I have done what I can to restore balance to the upset I have caused. The Universe will ultimately take care of the rest.

 

From here, I can only work on forgiving myself and realizing that I need not define myself by my mistakes. I have done many other good things in my life and blessed many other people. I have a list of positive affirmations that I've written in dry erase marker on my bathroom mirror. I may have done a terrible thing, but that doesn't make me a terrible person... I say that, but I don't always believe it in my heart. It's a process, I guess.

[GreenEyedLady]

You know, guilt is a rather useless emotion...

 

And it is one that will keep you from healing...

 

The key is to accept that you are human, accept that you have made a mistake and then MOVE ON...

 

Guilt is just another way to hurt yourself, to keep you in the darkness...Forgiveness is the way to the light...

[Starla]

yip i agree...to err is human.

[nadiaj2727]

Guilt? What guilt? :/

 

Oh yeah, I'm chock-full of it. It's a big reason why our relationship had been so on-again-off-again these last months, it's why I got my butt into therapy last October/November, it's why I cut out the physical part our relationship long before we ever officially ended it (and why he continued to stick around after that, I'll never know)...

 

I too learned that self-esteem had a lot to do with my getting involved with MM in the first place. And after doing a lot of research and personal training/education (not to get too Freudian here), I also realized that a lot of it had to do with not having a consistent father figure growing up - that may be a recurring theme for some OWs too. So in therapy, I'm working on improving my self-esteem, being more confident and assertive, and utilizing more effective coping skills when it seems like that stupid "OMG I can't live without him" mentality is getting too overwhelming.

 

I know what I did to his W. She knows too, and when I lay in bed at night and cry about not being with him (even though he hasn't gone home yet), I do wonder how many times she laid in bed at night and cried after she kicked him after D-Day. I love him with all my heart and want to be with him, but she had a life with him for six years. I know the stories of their bad marriage - not from him, so don't think I'm falling for his "lies" - but that doesn't make what I did any better and it doesn't justify my actions. If they divorce, she's the strong kind of woman that will move on with her life but for this amount of time, I still helped to cause her irreparable pain... maybe the kind of pain that will make it difficult for her to be happy or trusting in future relationships. I absolutely believe in karma and I have done what I can to restore balance to the upset I have caused. The Universe will ultimately take care of the rest.

 

From here, I can only work on forgiving myself and realizing that I need not define myself by my mistakes. I have done many other good things in my life and blessed many other people. I have a list of positive affirmations that I've written in dry erase marker on my bathroom mirror. I may have done a terrible thing, but that doesn't make me a terrible person... I say that, but I don't always believe it in my heart. It's a process, I guess.

 

It is definitely a process. I too am learning to forgive myself. I have come a long way since posting this... with the help of people on here and my psychologist. It's funny you mention father figure... in counseling I realized I was looking to xMM for the approval, acceptance and love I never fully received from my father. I never thought I had "daddy issues" before this. I realized that my father and I didn't get along, but I thought I was okay with that. In counseling I realized that so many things, including my tumultuous relationship with my father, have shaped who I am and the choices I have made. It is inspiring to know that I have control over my destiny and that, with the knowledge of who I am now and the experience of what I've done in the past, I can choose to make the right decisions from here on out and not hurt myself. Being with xMM was a self-destructive behavior on my part that was a way to escape dealing with my real-life problems. In turn, it caused me new problems in real life, such as guilt and confusion. I am done with that, and realizing the steps I've taken to come out of it really does make me feel stronger and help me forgive myself.

 

You are so right that you are not a terrible person. Like me, you have made a terrible decision in the past, but that's who you were then. You have learned from it and you would make different decisions now based on what you know now. That is a sign of real growth and maturity. Who are you now and who you are continuing to become is a very good, strong person. I really relate to your posts phoenixgirl and I admire you. I really wish we knew each other in real life! Thanks for sharing your words. I hope you can learn to forgive yourself in the same journey I am on. (hugs).

[phoenixgirl]

I agree with you Nadia - I *would* like to know you IRL. What I've done in the course of my A is push a lot of my friendships and other relationships out the window; as a result, I've been going through this "breakup" largely on my own. It would be especially nice to have someone around who has "been there" and is as mature and understanding as you!

[nadiaj2727]

I agree with you Nadia - I *would* like to know you IRL. What I've done in the course of my A is push a lot of my friendships and other relationships out the window; as a result, I've been going through this "breakup" largely on my own. It would be especially nice to have someone around who has "been there" and is as mature and understanding as you!

 

I hear you. I feel bad for lying to my friends because I couldn't tell them about xMM. I had to make outrageous excuses for where I was and what I was doing. I could tell it made no sense to them and they were wondering what the heck was up with me. I withdrew from them and although they still care about me, they don't know what happened, so it isn't their fault that I can't seem to connect with them. Hence, I spend a lot of time on this board LOL. My sister does know so that helps.

 

It is just another thing I did wrong that I feel bad about from that period of time. I was so blind that I lost track of people that were important to me. I threw them to the wayside and lied to them so that I could selfishly pursue being with a married man. Never again! Now I realize that if I have to keep it a secret and I can't tell my friends and family what I'm doing, then it's wrong, and I shouldn't do it.

[Owl]

You know, guilt is a rather useless emotion...

 

And it is one that will keep you from healing...

 

The key is to accept that you are human, accept that you have made a mistake and then MOVE ON...

 

Guilt is just another way to hurt yourself, to keep you in the darkness...Forgiveness is the way to the light...

 

Not at all. Guilt is a GREAT emotion, and its one that has a wonderful value.

 

(It just sucks when you're going through it! )

 

Its what tells you that you're doing something that you KNOW you shouldn't do. Its what (usually) motivates you to stop doing the destructive behavior that's causing you to feel guilty in the first place. Its what (usually) convinces you not to engage in the destructive behavior again.

 

If we didn't feel guilty, you'd see a LOT more destructive, anti-social behavior than you do now.

 

Forgiveness should occur after you've rectified whatever situation/action that made you feel guilty in the first place.