Must be a hypocrite

[Just A Girl2]

I think I must be a bit of a hypocrite.

 

I've always spouted the belief that I didn't care what a guy did for a living as long as we worked hard and did an honest day's work.

 

But do I really believe that fully?

 

I've recently met a guy who works in a factory that makes cardboard boxes. When we initially began talking, he told me that although his job wasn't the greatest (shift work, etc), it was really good money.

 

Today I gathered from him that he makes about half of what I make per hour. He could be at this place for 20 or 30 years and still never make what I do, even the most educated worker there (mechanic, millwright) would never make what I do now (this place obviously doesn't pay well).

 

He says that because he's part of the union and has only been there for 3 yrs, if layoffs come up again, he'd be very close to getting laid off. Therefore, little job security. He doesn't seem to have any actual skills. Never even went to a tradeschool. I'd think it wouldn't be easy for him to get another job if he got laid off, that he'd likely have to take something that was close to minimum wage (or a couple bucks an hour more).

 

I guess I've never dated a guy that made this much less money than I did. It's left me feeling weird. Part of me wonders why he's content to work for crappy pay, in a job that has crappy hours and such mundane work. Maybe that's what puzzles me the most.

 

He has friends who are nurses and he mentioned he knows what they make per hour. Find myself wondering if maybe he's a bit of a golddigger? (my ex husband and ex fiance were.....it eventually came out that they had set OUT to find themself a nice single nurse, one of the reasons being that nurses make good money).

 

I feel like a hypocrite for even thinking about all this because it goes against all I've ever claimed (and thought) I believed. Do I sound like a snooty wench? LOL

[clia]

I don't think it's hypocritical to want to be with a guy who makes close to what you do or more. I'll be honest, I wouldn't date a guy who wasn't in my financial ballpark. I don't feel I can rightly be called a golddigger since I'm bringing my financial means to the table as well. If I've worked my ass off getting an education and trying to get a good job, I want someone with the same level of ambition and motivation.

 

More power to people who are happy not making a lot of money. It all comes down to their individual happiness--me, I'm not like that. I want to make a lot of money so I can live well. Do I want to support a guy with no motivation or ambition to do so? Nope, not so much. I fully respect those who do a hard day's work, but do I want to marry them? Nope.

 

But I know couples where the woman makes a lot of money and is well educated, and the guy isn't, and they are quite happy. It all depends on what you want out of your life and what kind of guy you are happy being with. If this is an issue with you, it will always be an issue with you. It's not something you can just "get over."

 

I'll probably get slammed for saying all this--I can hear it now--"Oh, but it's what's inside and how he treats you that matters." Forget that. It would bother me to no end if I was the major breadwinner in the family. I can find plenty of ambitious, motivated guys who treat me well, so why would I want a guy who wasn't that way?

[Patty]

No,you dont sound hyprocritical.I think its only natural to feel that way.

 

Patty

[Olivia]

there are plenty of successful people out there who never stepped foot in a college, tech school or anyting other than high school.....my mother being one of them. She is a head administrative accounting manager at a big business and she did it all on her own. Of course, not going to college or trade school means that it will take a lot longer to make your way up the corporate ladder, but it can happen. Your friend just needs to find something that he really enjoys, something that he likes to do, and get out there and start working. Even if he does start out at a lower pay, if he really loves his job - that is what matters. There is always room for advancement and the more experience he has in anything the better it is. If you are going to continue to date this man, then what you should really be concerned about is whether or not he is happy with his job, and if he isn't, help him to find a job that he will be happy with. Because it doesn't matter if he makes $100,000 a year, if he hates the job and is miserable, then that will rub off on everything else in his life, including his relationships.

 

If you are a nurse, then you shouldn't worry about the money. You make enough if you really are a nurse. If you really care about this man and are interested in anything long-term, then I would focus on helping find a job that he will enjoy. And the money will come along. But I think it is kind of selfish of you to look at it like he isn't worthy of you or something because you make more. So what? As long as you are both happy in your jobs then that's all that should matter.

[Just A Girl2]

First of all, you obviously misunderstood me. I'm surely not putting him down for his lack of formal education. Geez. My Dad didn't even graduate high school and he's the hardest working, most respectable man I know and he's very successful, through many years of blood, sweat and tears. This isn't about me thinking I'm better than him, for goodness sakes. If that were the case, I would never had talked to him past our first conversation when he told me he works at a factory that makes cardboard boxes! LOL

 

I'm not dating him, just getting to know him.

 

If you are a nurse, then you shouldn't worry about the money. You make enough if you really are a nurse. If you really care about this man and are interested in anything long-term, then I would focus on helping find a job that he will enjoy. And the money will come along. But I think it is kind of selfish of you to look at it like he isn't worthy of you or something because you make more. So what? As long as you are both happy in your jobs then that's all that should matter.

 

Say what? Um yeah, I really am a nurse, why on earth would I say I was if I wasn't?

 

Hon, I wasn't put on this earth to be someone's job-finder. The guy is in his mid 30s and if he's happy with his job, which he seems to be, fine. If he's not happy in it, that's his problem and being the adult that he is, it will have to be up to him to take the initiative to find something he enjoys better. I busted my ass in school for many years, trying to make a good life for myself and following my dream and times were not always rosey or easy and I sure didn't expect anyone to come along and hold my hand.

 

Where did I say he wasn't worthy?

 

So are you saying that because I make more money that I should figure that's swell because then I can just support him or something? LOL

 

I have to question someone's degree of ambition in life if they are willing to work for crappy pay, working crappy shifts and always being on the verge of being laid off. Ambition and drive are 2 things I admire in someone.......they go even beyond money. But someone's choice of job can be a good indicator, a lot of the time (not always), of their level of these.

 

I don't think I'm selfish in the least. I'm not dating the guy, only starting talking to him. I don't owe him anything, least of all my time and effort in helping him to find a new job. LOL

 

TO ADD: the ONLY reason I brought up the fact that he doesnt' have a formal education, nor does he have any trade of sorts...is because it's obvious he's teetering on a fine line between being employed and being laid off. Nowadays, at least where I live, even people with 2 degrees or a Master's can't even find work at times......so for someone with no actual concrete skills to offer a company or business, they are only going to find minimum wage jobs......and having to try and survive on $7 an hour (which is the same thing high school kids here make at their after school jobs).

 

Would I want to marry someone who doesn't have a stable career (no matter what it is..and this guy seems to have gone from one job to another, never staying at one for more than a couple of years, which is why he has little seniority at his current job, meaning if there's layoffs, he's the first to go) and gets laid off and can only find something paying minimum wage, and I have to be the breadwinner? Hell no. I'm not supporting anyone. And that's not about being selfish or thinking I'm better than anyone.....it's about being practical. I've been involved with seemingly financially stable guys in the past...who ended up as financial duds who couldn't even afford a Big Mac. Anyway, my feelings and thoughts on this echo Clia's.

[Tony T]

I don't think you can judge yourself or be judged by others (or be considered a snooty wench) because you are like the majority of women who give money and security a high priority where finding a partner is concerned.

 

Frankly, I admire you for putting it right out there rather than pretending this guy's salary and work future doesn't bother you. It doesn't make any difference what a guy makes one way or the other...but if it bothers YOU and YOU are concerned about that, that is absolutely your right just as much as if you were troubled about the length of his penis or his bald head.

 

I think it would be highly irrational and borderline insane for any woman not to take a man's work and money making ability into some consideration where it might related to a future long term relationship or marriage. If the guy's a poor loser not making much bread, he can go find a girl who lives in the projects who knows no better. There's somebody for everybody.

 

I just don't see any woman with a level head wanting a partner who wouldn't even make the rental payments on a trailer in the Jerry Springer Mobile Home Park. I think most females at least want a guy who can help them live an average life in an average neighborhood in an average home and keep up the payments on a car, utilities, taxes, insurance, etc.

 

Hell, I'm single and my monthly expenses are over $5,000 and I don't think my lifestyle is extravagant....except I ought to probably get rid of the rolls.

 

Nothing at all wrong with you being concerned about what this guy makes. Don't waste his time or yours. Move on. You can just as easily fall for a guy who makes $250,000 per year as one who makes $20,000.

 

Poverty would definitely be a turn off for women, in my opinion.

[midori]

JaG2, I don't think you're being at all snooty or irrational in hesitating to date someone who's in a different economic tier than you are. It's not just about money, ultimately it's about attitudes towards life, responsibilities, etc. Not just ambition, not just about material goods and status.

 

To take a page from Aesop, he sounds like a grasshopper, while you're an ant. He hasn't made preparations for the future, he hasn't invested in himself or considered possible contingencies. That's not what you're like. It's not just about the different sizes of your paychecks, it's a fundamental difference in attitude.

 

I've been dating a few different guys in the last couple of months. One guy I met I liked a lot to begin with. But it became clear after the first few dates that he's just not in the same mental space that I'm in vis a vis work. I'm a doctoral student and I'm moving into the phase of my program where I start to do my own research. Very challenging, requires discipline, takes up a lot of time, etc. This guy, a writer, is just drifting along, and not pursuing his craft. He has a job but it's not very demanding -- it's an ideal job for a writer as it leaves him plenty of free time to write. But he's not writing -- not submitting things for publication. He hasn't done so for years. So he's got little money from his undemanding job, but he's not doing anything to justify the sacrifice. Why is he living hand-to-mouth? He couldn't afford to get some basic, minor repairs done on his car so that it would pass inspection. That's a problem a college kid has, not a guy in his 30's!

 

I just decided that at the moment I don't need to have someone in my life who feels that getting the laundry done is a major accomplishment, enough to fill a whole Monday. I need to be around people who are busy, who motivate me to not dither and dawdle myself (as I am prone to doing). This guy, very nice and very intelligent, just wasn't on the same page.

 

So now I'm dating a guy who's working full time, taking the bar exam at the end of the month, just started a CPA course, and also manages to find time to take his deaf 5 year old niece on excursions. He drives a beat-up car, though he doesn't have to.

 

It's not about the money, it's about the attitude behind one's financial status. Education also separates people. But it's not about class or status. The writer I mentioned grew up in a wealthier and more socially prominent family than mine; his education is more or less on par with my own. But he's not in the same mental space -- so in effect he's no more appropriate for me than that guy is for you.