Busted MM Today...and that felt good :)

[Owl]

Let me ask you this, Owl. Now if I remember correctly, your wife cheated on you, right?

 

If yes, then:

 

Do you and your wife have children?

 

If yes, then, was it easy for you to just leave your wife because you lost your trust in her--or would it be easier if it was just you and her with no children?

 

I feel having a child involved now makes this harder. From the start of this thread, I said I am doing all of this for the baby--not me. Apparently that meant to some posters around here that this means I'm not over him. These people apparently have No regard for the baby whatsoever, which is why I said "until you are in my shoes, or similiar shoes, it's hard for you to understand."

 

Having children makes a difference.

 

Yes, we have children.

 

Would it have mattered as far as our seperation? Of course.

 

But you're forgetting something...WE'RE MARRIED. WE'RE ALREADY JOINTLY SUPPORTING OUR CHILDREN AND OURSELVES. WE'RE ALREADY A HOUSEHOLD.

 

You're not.

 

You slept with this guy a couple of times, and at some point he slipped the condom off.

 

He's not your husband, he's not your boyfriend, and he's darn sure not "daddy material". He's not an everyday part of your life, integrated into your home. And those differences make ALL the difference.

 

And here's your answers. Again, good luck to you.

[Gwyneth]

"I have been in this situation before and I know what's best and what's not best."

 

 

Then you don't need anyone's advice or opinons here then did you? It was all a waste of people's time to post, if you knew all along what was best and what wasn't.

 

I don't recall asking opinions or advice in the first place. Reread my first post then you'll see my point and how Far off this thread topic has gone.

 

Geez.

[Gwyneth]

I know you asked Owl, I have an answer. It depends on the people and the situation. I have 2 children, and it wasn't easy for me to tell Mr. Messy to get lost, but it was what was best for me and the children. They need to be exposed to love and sanity, not lies, regret and constant turmoil. Ultimately, it has been a blessing that he isn't here daily.

 

Thank you, BNB. This helps with my situation.

 

A perfect example of staying on topic, and helping the OP--not attacking, or acting like a know-it-all.

[Gwyneth]

Yes, we have children.

 

Would it have mattered as far as our seperation? Of course.

 

But you're forgetting something...WE'RE MARRIED. WE'RE ALREADY JOINTLY SUPPORTING OUR CHILDREN AND OURSELVES. WE'RE ALREADY A HOUSEHOLD.

 

You're not.

 

You slept with this guy a couple of times, and at some point he slipped the condom off.

 

He's not your husband, he's not your boyfriend, and he's darn sure not "daddy material". He's not an everyday part of your life, integrated into your home. And those differences make ALL the difference.

 

And here's your answers. Again, good luck to you.

 

So this child makes him less of his child just because we aren't married? Wow, you've got some balls.

 

It's not the baby's fault it's a child-out-of-wedlock. But you seem to want to make it a case of "blame it on the victim." Well, that's your choice, and while I totally disagree with you, I will respect Your choice. But for me, your choice would be the wrong one to make or even think.

[nadiaj2727]

I have 2 children, and it wasn't easy for me to tell Mr. Messy to get lost, but it was what was best for me and the children. They need to be exposed to love and sanity, not lies, regret and constant turmoil.

 

Wow Gwyn this is a really powerful point from BNB, I think you should listen to her! Right now every time you are any where near xMM, you are exposed to lies, regret and constant tumoil. She is so right that that's not what a pregnant mother needs. That is definitely not what's best for your baby.

 

I think everyone here is trying to show you that what we all told you about xMM from the very beginning is true and will never, ever change: he is a lying, cheating, manipulative, selfish jerk. He will continue to be this way. Your children do need to be exposed to love and sanity, and it doesn't seem like xMM can provide either of those!! His whole life is a twisted lie.

 

I am not saying your child should never see its father, if he even wants to the child once it's born. (I don't mean to be harsh -- just that it's a possibility). I'm saying that you should make that decision when the time comes -- will xMM be a good father and will he live up to his promises? Who knows, you will have to see whether he does and then decide issues like visitation rights etc. But for right NOW the child is not even born. You need to give it a safe environment to grow in. That doesn't include exposing it to this creep's drama and turmoil. Right now there is absolutely no reason for you to talk to xMM. I agree with everyone else here that you should STOP talking to him at all costs. Just focus on your baby. Now is not the time for petty arguments about xMM's lying and sneaking around. Now is the time to pamper your precious baby. Being around xMM or having any contact with him does *not* help you do that.

 

Gwyn, very few people here hate you. I know Ariadne's posts are meant only to be vicious towards but almost every other poster is just trying to help you see the truth about xMM and how he is poisonous to your life and your baby's well-being... because we do care about you. If you are going to start posts you have to be prepared for all kinds of responses. Hopefully some can help you learn and grow, just like when we gave you our advice about xMm being a scumbag and not getting involved with him.

Now you see that we were right. Believe me Gwyn that we are right that your being pregnant with his child is not going to change him or make him stop lying or turn him into an honest person with you (or anyone else for that matter). A skunk is a skunk is a skunk! The sooner you realize that this skunk is bad to talk to because you should be focusing that energy on your own happiness and your unborn baby, the better. We just say this to help you, honestly. (hugs)

[PandorasBox]

I don't recall asking opinions or advice in the first place. Reread my first post then you'll see my point and how Far off this thread topic has gone.

 

Geez.

 

 

don't geez me.....get your pregnant panties out of a wad will ya.

[whichwayisup]

I think Owl's point is geared toward MM, not your child with him. MM at the end of the day doesn't "owe" you anything. Neither of you are married to eachother, you two aren't a couple, he's made no committment to you, as you to him. He has a wife whom he has made promises to, and look how he's come through on those..

 

Anyway, enjoy your yoga, do some deep breathing and just let things happen as they will.

[Owl]

You're right...I do have some...thanks for noticing.

 

I don't blame the child at all for who the father is. That's his mother and father's issue...not his.

 

Nor do I see how keeping this worthless POS of a MM, who DELIBERATELY set you up for this, who cheats on his wife and plays all these silly games (per your thread at least) as a GOOD thing for your child.

 

I think here's the source of the confusion.

 

YOU seem to think having this kind of person in the child's life as a good thing.

 

I do not. Nor do I see how this jerk "deserves" to be a part of the child's life based on the fact that he whipped his dinkle out of the wrapper while he was cheating on his wife with you. No bonus points scored there in my opinon.

 

I would agree...clearly, we have different views on what makes a father. SEX isn't what makes a father.

[sb129]

I'm just going to pretend I'm not even seeing what the two of you--Owl and SB--have just written. This is insane to me. As the father, he has a right to have the opportunity to be a part of HIS child's life--whether or not we're married. I cannot take that right away from him without Real legal reasons. Are you not familiar with how the court system works?

 

I don't know where you two are from, but here in NY, it's hard to just keep a father away because the mother says he's a Liar. It's also not fair for this child to be fatherless--but that was mine and his mistake. I don't see how taking it out on the child--or using it agains the child--is at all rational.

 

The reason I am still in contact with this man is because we are expecting a child together. I have not touched him since early February, nor do I have any interest in touching him. We might have hugged--but that's because we're trying to be civil toward one another. Well, that plan backfired last week when I sensed I was lied to and sure enough, I was.

 

If you feel the baby should not be my number one concern right now, please do Thrill me and tell me Why I should not put my baby first and foremost. Thanks

 

What part of my posts do you think are "insane"?

I DID say you should put your baby first, by removing the drama and uncertainty from your life, and the stress that being in contact with this MM clearly brings to you.

 

In case you didn't notice, your MM isn't exactly thrilled about the baby, and he isn't climbing over himself to play Daddy- nice, is he?

 

Of course I am familiar with the law, but YOU have no legal obligations to the father of your child, esp as he is not your husband. Nobody is going to bang down your door and say "hey lady, let that Daddy see his baby" unless he FIGHTS for access (ie if he really wants it), then perhaps the law would look upon him favourably, but I highly doubt he has the means or the inclination to do that.

 

So you aren't "taking that away from him"- if he wants it badly enough, he will fight you for access.... so he has options if you cut contact with him.

 

The other legal aspect is financial support and seeing as you have repeatedly said you don't need it from him, then using the "law" as a back up to your argument falls a little flat.

 

OK, I agree that ideally, a baby should have a mum and dad and all that.

But isn't it better to be loved and cherished by ONE stable parent than have two who are always arguing?

 

You should know that. Your background and your parents history explains alot about why you are so adamant you want to keep MM in your life.

Your baby has got a fair few years to go before it can start resenting you for not having its Dad around- but ultimately that may not be your decision anyway.

 

Your MM sounds flaky enough to run for the hills long before baby starts questioning your R with him etc etc.

I also don't feel that a good parent would bring all this anger into their child's life. My sister and brother and I only knew of problems between our parents because our mom would say bad things to us about him and his wife. He made a mess now he has two options--stick around and play nice, or leave.

 

But he ISN'T playing nice, is he?

I don't even think he is excited about your baby- as I said its impossible for him to feel the emotional connection that you do.

 

I think you should try and keep contact with him to an absolute minimum- it stresses you out and thats bad.

 

IF he wants to be part of the babys life, let him know when it is born, and see what cards he plays then.

[sb129]

(and I agree with all the other posters who think that this MM is a rat, whos true colours showed through long ago, and is hardly the epitome of the ideal father)

 

I think she is better off without him in her life- why is she constantly putting his "rights" before anyone elses?

[nadiaj2727]

So this child makes him less of his child just because we aren't married? Wow, you've got some balls.

 

 

Owl didn't say your child is less of a child because his parents aren't married. Nowhere does his post say that. Instead he said -- in answer to your question to him-- that he and his wife made decisions together as a *married couple* regarding their children and everything else involved in a married couple's lives. Therefore your question to Owl about his children is a different situation from your own, because Owl is married and therefore makes decisions as a married person with his partner. Your xMM has no incentive to make decisions as a partner with you, you are not his partner. You are the mother of his child. That is different than being married.

 

There is no marriage bond to keep you together. Having a child does not always make the parents a couple. In fact, in your situation having the child can't make you a couple because xMM is already married to someone else. He can't truly have two families. The harsh reality of your situation -- regardless of whether xMM steps up to the plate and actually does the right thing for once, such as paying child support, visiting with the child, keeping the promises he makes to the child about when he will see him or her etc. -- is that you are going to be this child's primary family (and perhaps whoever you end up in a long-term relationship or marriage with in the future... who could be the child's step-dad... hmmm let's hope he is a good dad to your child even though you have said in the past that step-children aren't the same to a family unit as biological children are...) and xMM has a primary family with his wife and step-child and whatever other children they may eventually have together. Therefore you will have to make decisions as the primary parent, on your own, with perhaps some input from xMM but not together as a couple with xMM. Owl is together as a married couple with his wife. That is what he meant as the difference... I don't see how it could mean he was blaming anything on your child who is being born out of wedlock. Unfortunately yes your child will not have the benefit of two parents in the same family unit. But that is not your child's fault and that's not what Owl meant.

 

I don't understand why you tell people to drop the subject, so then Owl bows out of your post, and then you specifically call him out and accuse him of not answering your question. So he answers your question and you misread it and lash back at him for it. I don't understand the point of all of that.

[nadiaj2727]

Sorry Owl -- I replied as you were replying I guess. I didn't mean to write an explanation post for you -- obviously you were capable of doing that on your own and you did.

[sessuale]

As the father, he has a right to have the opportunity to be a part of HIS child's life--whether or not we're married.

 

Then let him make that decision. He knows how to contact you, right? If he wants to be a part of the kid's life, he'll make arrangements. If he doesn't, list the father as unknown and forget about him.

 

Owl is trying to direct you down the right path here, try to take a step back and really take-in his advice.

[sb129]

Also, to add to nadias point, in some countries, if you are married when the child is born, and subsequently split up, the father has more paternity rights and obligations than if the couple isn't married.

 

I know this in particular because its one of the reasons MY exMM dragged his heels about separating/ initiating divorce proceedings with his W until well after their son was born and he was safely on the birth certificate.

[NoIDidn't]

Doesn't your child deserve a R based on honesty and not just biology?

[sb129]

Then let him make that decision. He knows how to contact you, right? If he wants to be a part of the kid's life, he'll make arrangements. If he doesn't, list the father as unknown and forget about him.

 

Owl is trying to direct you down the right path here, try to take a step back and really take-in his advice.

 

Thank you sessuale! You hit the nail on the head.

[Gwyneth]

You're right...I do have some...thanks for noticing.

 

I don't blame the child at all for who the father is. That's his mother and father's issue...not his.

 

Nor do I see how keeping this worthless POS of a MM, who DELIBERATELY set you up for this, who cheats on his wife and plays all these silly games (per your thread at least) as a GOOD thing for your child.

 

I think here's the source of the confusion.

 

YOU seem to think having this kind of person in the child's life as a good thing.

 

I do not. Nor do I see how this jerk "deserves" to be a part of the child's life based on the fact that he whipped his dinkle out of the wrapper while he was cheating on his wife with you. No bonus points scored there in my opinon.

 

I would agree...clearly, we have different views on what makes a father. SEX isn't what makes a father.

 

Well that's good that you have some

 

So if it's not the baby's fault whose parents he or she has, then why keep his or her father from him or her just because mommy and daddy are at odds? That is what I don't get. yes, I get that the baby doesn't need turmoil in his or her life, that's not healthy for any child, but I don't feel this is good enough to keep him out of the baby's life. I would need more than just that.

 

As for his words, I had Always said I will have to see what happens. I never said I did believe him, but I did say I am Trying to believe him. But after last weekend, I am not sure if I can trust him. Well my friends think I'm overreacting about the lady at the train station--true, very well might be. But at the same time, they do understand that this one little thing adds up time and time again. They also said that just because he's lying to me doesn't mean I should keep him away from the baby--that just isn't fair. These friends too have divorced parents whose mothers told them bad things about their fathers. I highly recommend Not to do that

 

The point of this thread initially was to recognize that I did learn a great deal from this board and that I finally saw through the bright light--that is why I say this thread has gone off topic. I also wanted to point out that in time, all OW / OM will come to realize what has been said around here all along. Then somehwere this thread went south instead of north as it was originally going. I don't know...

 

Nadia, I don't care if certain people hate me around here--that's their problem. But I don't appreciate when I'm spoken to like a child, or when people talk about me in here as if I'm not here. I find that really rude--but maybe that's just me.

[mistresswchildren]

G

I just want to say, on topic, that all of this is not good for either you or the baby. The issue is that whether or not the man is in the child's life, he probably shouldn't be in yours in ANY way. Trust me, I am coming to terms with this on my own. Also, maybe it would be good if you go completely NC. If he is lying to you, why wouldn't he lie to your child. I'm sure you will have to wait until the baby is born to find out what kind of man this guy really is. My MM showed up for my son's birth, and at that point I thought he was really going to be an attentive father. I was wrong. I think that if I had the strength, and I really think from your posts that you do, you should just go NC. He will whine and cry and text and e-mail and..... He will try to say that he really wants to see the baby. Let him prove it. Don't give in until he does. I think at this point it would be easier if you just forget that he exists. I understand that you do not want him. I know that you aren't interested in him anymore, and that is why I think that it may be better for you to just let this guy fade into existence. See what he does. See if he pursues a relationship with this child. If not, you and your child are better off. In general, you can only work so hard to keep him involved. He has to want to be (which I realize he says he does, but words are one thing, and action another). Maybe just send him texts about when the OB visits are and leave it at that. Don't tell him to be there. Leave it up to him. If he shows, then maybe even give him a call when you go into labor, but ONLY if he shows. I just hope things get better for you soon.

[sb129]

Sigh. I am not going to stay up any later to bang against this brick wall. I am tired.

 

Again, good luck Gwyn. Look forward to the next instalment. I hope things settle down before the baby is born.

[Gwyneth]

Then let him make that decision. He knows how to contact you, right? If he wants to be a part of the kid's life, he'll make arrangements. If he doesn't, list the father as unknown and forget about him.

 

Owl is trying to direct you down the right path here, try to take a step back and really take-in his advice.

 

I did let him make that decision. It was his choice to call every day to see how I am feeling. It was his choice to come to the doctor appointments with me. It was also his choice to tell me one thing and mean another. And it was also his choice to have unprotected sex with me. And to show up at the food store I just pulled in to, and to email me today and try calling me, and so forth--all his doing. I'm just living my life.

 

So, I have let him make a lot of choices.

[whichwayisup]

Things to think about..Is he going to be a daily part of your baby's life or a once week visitor? Once a month?

 

I still think once his wife finds out, and she will, trust me its' only a matter of time before that happens, and when it does, that's when any plans will be made or changed. Right now any promises or committments he is making to you WILL go out the window once she finds out the truth.

[Owl]

I'll trouble you no more, Gwen.

 

As I said...we clearly have different views.

 

Good luck to you.

[nadiaj2727]

 

Nadia, I don't care if certain people hate me around here--that's their problem. But I don't appreciate when I'm spoken to like a child, or when people talk about me in here as if I'm not here. I find that really rude--but maybe that's just me.

 

Understandable, but you could just tell them "please don't talk to me like a child, that's rude" or put them on ignore. But instead sometimes if someone says something you dont' agree with them, you say THEY'RE speaking Chinese and THEY'RE insane, etc. That's not very nice either IMO.

[NoIDidn't]

Yes, G, I DO have a lot of nerve.

 

But alas, it is falling on deaf ears.

 

You will have to find out the hard way about MM and pregnant former mistresses.

 

Owl didn't say anything about the worth and value of your child. But you keep on spinning things so you can stay indignant.

 

I don't agree with OldEurope much, but we seem to be mostly in agreement here. Forgive me for not being as eloquent as she is.

 

I don't expect a complete turn around or forgetting about the MM. Just know when to hold 'em, and when to fold 'em, Girlfriend.

 

Time to fold 'em. Can't make a slug turn into Father of the Year material just because of paternity and biology. That rationalization for staying in contact with him comes up empty. Like another poster said, let HIM make a decision. You are not his partner/W. You don't have those kinds of rights or entitlements in his actions. A court cannot order him to be emotionally there for you or the child, just financially.

 

And whether you agree or not, your child will suffer for your misgivings in life. That's the way it is. That in no way is an insult. In your defensiveness, you really are missing the point.

 

But I will butt out unless something changes in this thread.

[Gwyneth]

Understandable, but you could just tell them "please don't talk to me like a child, that's rude" or put them on ignore. But instead sometimes if someone says something you dont' agree with them, you say THEY'RE speaking Chinese and THEY'RE insane, etc. That's not very nice either IMO.

 

I have tried saying to Please leave me alone--that didn't work.

 

I didn't say they're speaking Chinese Ever. I said I must be speaking in a foreign language again.