Shoot.. came face to face with my young MM and his gf...

[Mustang Sally]

Please don't .. this is getting boring..

Yes...now that I think about it, you do have a point there.

[Trialbyfire]

Tell me how you can hurt someone who has absolutely NO idea you exist?

 

These W have NO idea their H are cheating.. how can I hurt them?

 

With my friends.. same thing.. if she would have NO idea I was sleeping with her H.. how can I hurt her?

 

It's just my moral.. about my friends.. I would feel like I'm an hypocrit when talking with them.. I would feel bad.. I know I would never even think about it.. never did.. never will.

How do you know that your existence is not affecting their marriage in a negative fashion? Are you there, experiencing their thoughts and interactions, particularly their bedroom antics, or are you relying on a lying MM, to tell you how it affects them, not at all?

 

Why would you feel like a hypocrite, if you're "helping" their marriage, as you've stated in the past?

[Owl]

Tell me how you can hurt someone who has absolutely NO idea you exist?

 

These W have NO idea their H are cheating.. how can I hurt them?

 

With my friends.. same thing.. if she would have NO idea I was sleeping with her H.. how can I hurt her?

 

It's just my moral.. about my friends.. I would feel like I'm an hypocrit when talking with them.. I would feel bad.. I know I would never even think about it.. never did.. never will.

 

So does it boil down to whether they know about it, and whether or not you'd have to lie to them about it? You'd feel like a hypocrite for lying about it to them (for knowing that your sleeping with their H and they don't know).

 

But, if its "good for the marriage" why does that matter?

 

You're HELPING them, right?

[whichwayisup]

Please don't .. this is getting boring..

 

..*goes to check out Lizzie's pic in her profile..*

[whichwayisup]

Ok, food for thought. What if it was an aquaintence, not someone you're incredibly close with, but someone you kind of know? Would that fall under the category of 'friend' or 'stranger'. Just curious.

[Owl]

OK.. here's the word I was looking for : LOYALTY...

 

I have loyalty for my friends.. not for strangers..

 

OK...we cross posted.

 

This is the crux of the matter.

 

Its ok to sleep with someone's spouse that you'll never know and never meet, because you don't "owe them any loyalty". You don't care what the outcome of your interaction with their spouse is...what the impacts to their marriage could possibly be...because you don't owe them any loyalty.

 

But you DO owe that loyalty to your friends. So you would'nt do that to them.

 

Its ok to potentially hurt those you don't know...but not to do so to those you know.

 

Right?

[carhill]

I'll try, not that it won't get me into trouble

 

 

 

IMO, it's a positive action. In Lizzie's life certain actions are performed or prohibited with ones one loves or has emotional involvement with; other actions are performed or prohibited with those to whom she is indifferent. It's an emotional state of mind which has no basis in logic, which is what is attempting to be applied here. It just won't work. I think Lizzie said it well when she suggested that she has a different moral code than <one particular poster>. It's not that she hurts them and doesn't care, it's that she's indifferent to their existence (and any affectations thereto) entirely. To me, that makes sense.

 

BTW, Lizzie, I have not looked at your pix...

 

Carry on

[Owl]

Again, this all implies that YOU RECOGNIZE THAT SOMEONE CAN/WILL BE HURT BY YOUR SLEEPING WITH THEIR SPOUSE.

 

Agreed?

[Lizzie60]

Ok, food for thought. What if it was an aquaintence, not someone you're incredibly close with, but someone you kind of know? Would that fall under the category of 'friend' or 'stranger'. Just curious.

 

Yes aquaintances are not friends.. not especially strangers either.. but they would fall mor under the 'strangers' definition..

[Lizzie60]

Again, this all implies that YOU RECOGNIZE THAT SOMEONE CAN/WILL BE HURT BY YOUR SLEEPING WITH THEIR SPOUSE.

 

Agreed?

 

No.. I can't agree because I know they will NOT get hurt.. unless the MM confesses.... and yes if he does confess then I have to agree that it would hurt their spouse.. but he's the one who cheats.. not me.. right?

[Owl]

So then what would make you a hypocrite to your friend if you were sleeping with her H?

 

Because you have to lie to her in order to avoid hurting her?

 

Or would it not be you that hurt her, but her H only was the source of her pain?

 

Or would it not matter at all as long as she didn't find out?

[Lizzie60]

So then what would make you a hypocrite to your friend if you were sleeping with her H?

 

Because you have to lie to her in order to avoid hurting her?

 

Or would it not be you that hurt her, but her H only was the source of her pain?

 

Or would it not matter at all as long as she didn't find out?

 

This will NEVER happens.. period.. because I am loyal to my friends and family.. again.. period.

 

Don't try to put words in my mouth or don't try to twist my words.. I know what I'm saying.. you can just choose not to understand.. oh well... some people do..

[Owl]

Also...you've been here a good while...I know that you've seen tons of posts by a huge number of BS's that indicated that their marriages went downhill rapidly when the affair began.

 

Their spouse suddenly stopped investing in them emotionally. Sometimes stopped sleeping with them. Grew cold, distant, uncaring.

 

In short...they were hurting from the time that the affair began, even if they didn't know the reason for the pain.

 

And you still don't believe that pain doesn't occur from the cheating, even if the spouse doesn't "know" about the affair itself?

[Owl]

No...I'm TRYING to understand.

 

I just don't understand...you used the term 'loyalty' as your reason for not sleeping with your friend's husband.

 

What "loyalty" would you be violating by doing so? What promise are you breaking? Why is sleeping with her H a BAD thing, if its beneficial to everyone else's marriage?

 

I'm TRYING to understand...I'm pointing out the flaws in what you're saying, and where it doesn't match up. I want to understand how its ok to do one, but not the other. And what justifies each.

[whichwayisup]

Yes aquaintances are not friends.. not especially strangers either.. but they would fall mor under the 'strangers' definition..

What about a friend of a friend...Or if you and I met IRL, or you met any another female LS'er? Just curious..

 

Sorry, I don't mean to jump on the bandwagon, Im just asking afew questions though. (Off to look at your profile again..)

[Lizzie60]

Hum... I see this MM on a regular basis.. only maybe 15-20 min. each time.. he has been visiting me for .. I would say.. the last 4 years I guess... (the one I saw this morning).. and let me tell you this..

 

I think you, Owl, spend more time with me on this board in a week.. than this MM spend with me.. in a month.. do you think you ARE hurting your W by spending so much time with me on here? humm.....

 

methink some people do not live by their own 'beliefs'..

[Lizzie60]

What about a friend of a friend...Or if you and I met IRL, or you met any another female LS'er? Just curious..

 

Sorry, I don't mean to jump on the bandwagon, Im just asking afew questions though. (Off to look at your profile again..)

 

WWIU I will NEVER EVER meet anyone on this forum.. or any other forums..

[Owl]

But I'm not "in love" with you, Lizzie. You've admitted that many of your MM would run away with you if they thought they could.

 

Trust me, I do NOT have that feeling for you! (and I'm betting you're heaving a sigh of relief right now! ).

 

And that's why you're not hurting my marriage. I have nothing emotionally invested in you. Its not taking away from my investments in my marriage. (perhaps my job somewhat, but I'm good enough at that that the impact is negligible).

 

But if I were sleeping with you, if I were spending money on you, if I were "falling in love with you"...that WOULD be hurting my wife. Because that's all things that I promised to HER...not you.

 

And those are the things that your MM promised to their wives, but are giving to you instead.

[whichwayisup]

I know, that's why I said hypothecial silly! (Crap I cannot spell today) Never say never though, I DO know afew folks in your end of the woods, so it wouldnt' be impossible to run into you. Stranger things have happened.

[bentnotbroken]

What an interesting conversation. I see so many good points. Carry on.

[grogster]

OOhhh you... I'm sooo glad you're back..

I really missed you.. but we're not allowed to ask for missing people here.. the threads get deleted..

 

I always enjoy your posts..

 

Thanks, sweetie. The feelings are mutual.

 

Although I see that the debate and the debaters have not changed much. Lizzie, you still know how to provoke a reaction.

 

I'll not enter this discussion because I can't say anything that has not already been said.

 

Remember, though, sometimes when we break rules we break lives, and hearts.

 

Still, I do enjoy your antinomian online personality.

[Lizzie60]

I know, that's why I said hypothecial silly! (Crap I cannot spell today) Never say never though, I DO know afew folks in your end of the woods, so it wouldnt' be impossible to run into you. Stranger things have happened.

 

No.. LOL.. trust me on that one.. I was in another forum for years, before I got banned.. and one of the poster, was walking distance from my place.. she wanted to meet me soo bad.. often whe would email me.. asking me 'were you at this place, on that day?'.. she thought she would see me sometimes.. but it never happened..

 

I'm not worried about that.. not at all..

 

I've made really good friends on that other forum, some I still exchange emails.. but never ever met anyone..

 

I know for a fact that I will NEVER meet anyone from an Internet forum.. and those who might think I'm soliciting.. think again.. because I'm not.. and never will.. I have enough on my plate already..

[Lizzie60]

Thanks, sweetie. The feelings are mutual.

 

Although I see that the debate and the debaters have not changed much. Lizzie, you still know how to provoke a reaction.

 

I'll not enter this discussion because I can't say anything that has not already been said.

 

Remember, though, sometimes when we break rules we break lives, and hearts.

 

Still, I do enjoy your antinomian online personality.

 

Yabut.. I'm not breaking any rules?

[Nevermind]

How can you be a friend and a therapist in 20 minutes?

 

It simply boils down to this: you don't care if you hurt anybody unless you know them. Which is okay, everybody has to live their own lives. Just the act of being a saint and helping anybody...that's weak.

[Owl]

I'm still interested in an answer to this baseline question that's yet to be answered or explained:

 

I just don't understand...you used the term 'loyalty' as your reason for not sleeping with your friend's husband.

 

What "loyalty" would you be violating by doing so? What promise are you breaking? Why is sleeping with her H a BAD thing, if its beneficial to everyone else's marriage?

 

 

What ultimately makes it ok to sleep with someone's H that you don't know that vs one that you are friends with?

 

You've said that it would make you feel like a hypocrite. Why? Exactly why?

 

You've stated you wouldn't do so out of loyalty. How are you being disloyal by sleeping with her H? Exactly...what is it you're doing TO HER by doing this? And how is it that you're not doing that to the person you don't know who's husband you sleep with?