turtle Posted July 14, 2003 Posted July 14, 2003 OK, this came up today at work.... I think two people should live together for at least one year before getting married...what do you all think about that? It seems silly to get married without really knowing the other person.
quankanne Posted July 14, 2003 Posted July 14, 2003 that's what dating and courtship is for -- to learn what you can about the person you are spending time with. To say that living together (cohabitation, shacking up, whatever you want to call it) is preparing a couple for marriage is misleading, because it's a whole other ball of wax. It's like saying you slapped a wad of peanut butter between two pieces of Hershey bar and came up with a Reeces Peanut Butter Cup. The ingredients might all be there, but it's just not the same. my thought is that living together can often (note to those who will read this and take offense: I've used the word "OFTEN," because like anything else, there are exceptions) just mean getting free milk without having to buy the cow. You get the benefits of a marital relationship without having to make any real commitment other than to just stay together because it feels good for now. Of course, some people see marriage that way, too ...
niko1999 Posted July 15, 2003 Posted July 15, 2003 I think living together can be beneficial, but can also be damaging. It depends of the situation I think. My boyfreind and I live together, and when he decides to buy me a ring.... Aw well. I think it can be used as practice, if you can cohabitate well, then you can probably spend the rest of your lives together, at the same time, I guess statistics say that youre better off NOT living together pre-marriage. Like I said, I think it all depends on the situation, and the people.
RogueK Posted July 15, 2003 Posted July 15, 2003 I think living together is vital to a relationship. Finding out you can coexist with the person you're with as well as love helps to BUILD a solid relationship toward taking the next step. This is just in my mind but i only want to be married once. I'm not about rushing the relationship until i know both of us are ready to do so. That means, in my mind, exploring every facet of being together before taking our vows. Too many marriages end because both or one person finds out in the end it wasn't meant to be. To me that is horrible to love someone, want to spend your life with them only to have them tell you one day it's over. Just regular break ups are hard enough but a ending a marriage after having children and a future together? NO THANK YOU. I rather find out BEFORE hand if it will work out. NOT after the fact.
yes Posted July 15, 2003 Posted July 15, 2003 "why buy the cow when the milk is free?" So many women have trouble getting married once they agree to live with the guy. I think the best scenario, if you're considering marrying this person, is to take trips together, sometimes stay over at each other's places for the weekend , etc - i.e. have short versions of living together, but avoid fully moving in together until the rings are in place. As for seeing if it can work out before marrying, that's BS. It may work for a year and fall apart 5 years later - there's no way to know. And it's not like marriage is unbreakable - there's always divorce! (Unless you're insanely religious...) That's my view, but mind you, I'm not married or anything =) -yes
RogueK Posted July 15, 2003 Posted July 15, 2003 But what the hell is the point of marriage if divorce is always an option. Doesn't marriage mean ANYTHING to anyone anymore? Taking your vows before your families and god to love someone until DEATH DO YOU PART! Am i the only one who values marriage and doesn't think it is something that should be taken lightly? I mean i understand marriages don't work but why the hell would you go into it thinking "well if things don't work out here i can always divorce". So you think women have troubles being married after living with the guy? So your "strategy" is to trap them into a ring before they find out you are a slob? Good idea. I feel happy for your future. I've messed up my relationship by being selfish. I've learned a lot from it and when i do meet someone again and feel it will work out you better believe i'm going to do whatever i can to make sure of it. I only hope i end up with someone who is able to share their thoughts and concerns on anything that has to do with "us" because i really don't need the heartache in my life when things could have easily been resolved and continued happy lives could have been a result.
yes Posted July 15, 2003 Posted July 15, 2003 I didn't say anything about taking it lightly and not valuing it. Neither did I say anything about misrepresenting yourself in order to "trap" him. But I guess you weren't replying to me anyway, RK... Best of luck in your future r/s's! -yes
RogueK Posted July 15, 2003 Posted July 15, 2003 No you didn't say anything about taking it lightly nor it having no value but your post was written in a way that i felt suggested it. No arguing here it's just i'm so sick and tired about marriages falling apart CONSTATLY because the fact is usually one person wasn't ready OR the "other" person turned into something they weren't when they first got together. It's just in my mind why rush it? If you are meant to be together there should be no hurry to be married. No reason to rush into it and find out it was a mistake. I just feel living together BEFORE marriage is a good idea.
clia Posted July 15, 2003 Posted July 15, 2003 The main problem I've seen with living together is that the guy and the girl go into it with different perspectives. Oftentimes the girl is thinking "Cool, this means he'll ask me to marry him soon!" And the guy is thinking "Cool, we're living together." Problems arise when a ring is not forthcoming, if at all, the girl starts stressing out, and kaboom. I think if expectations are discussed prior to moving in together it can work for some people. (And I'd think you'd know if your significant other was a slob even without moving together, provided you'd been to their house or apartment at least once.)
RogueK Posted July 15, 2003 Posted July 15, 2003 What is with women NEEDING to be married so badly. I mean SOO many women put having the actual wedding before the relationship. Many even want it regardless if it is working or not. Then it's the woman who thinks once you are wed the guy will just change and when they don't they want it over. Of course the same thing is true with the men who agree then end up cheating or something stupid. I don't know. I suppose i should just give advice and stop bitching about it. TALK ABOUT YOUR FEELINGS PEOPLE!!! BE HONEST TO EACH OTHER FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!
quankanne Posted July 15, 2003 Posted July 15, 2003 I'll see your Q&A ("What the hell is the point of marriage if divorce is always an option") and bid you this question: What's the point of marriage if you have the option of living with someone to "test drive" your relationship? yes had a good point about learning loads about someone by going off on a weekend with them -- ain't nothing like waking up next to someone and seeing them all booger-eyed and funky-haired ... and possibly grumpy to boot, because they're not morning people. Or seeing how they handle the stress of taking a trip or even just being with you for 24 hours straight for a couple of days. I think THAT is probably a much truer indicator of how well you get along with someone than shacking up, because as clia points out, two people in the same relationship can have vastly differing opinions of what living together means. I think that living together is a way of telling/showing someone "I love you to pieces and want to be with you, but don't respect you enough to marry you." But that's my personal viewpoint, shaped by my beliefs and observations, and it has nothing to do with how anyone else sees or values cohabitation. as for marriage, I think people need to think long and hard before taking the plunge, preferably getting all their wild oats, their goals or even their selfish desires out of the way before attaching themselves legally to another and promising to devote the rest of their lives to that person. A lot of marriages are the result of two people "being in love" but having no solid basis to their relationship (i.e., reality doesn't enter the picture, just grand ideas of "How It's Supposed To Be") and they haven't matured to the point where they can take on being responsible for a spouse, much less children or their own selves. My thought is that marriage licenses shouldn't be granted until someone has proof that they've completed at least three years of college or trade school, and are at least 26 years of age!!
moimeme Posted July 15, 2003 Posted July 15, 2003 So many women have trouble getting married once they agree to live with the guy. I think the best scenario, if you're considering marrying this person, is to take trips together, sometimes stay over at each other's places for the weekend , etc - i.e. have short versions of living together, but avoid fully moving in together until the rings are in place. The hardest part about being married IS LIVING TOGETHER! IMHO, you're a fool to marry unless you know for sure that you can live successfully with that other person. Too, people who are hiding things about themselves can do so during trips and weekends, but they can't do it over six straight months of cohabitation. As for the 'milk is free' issue - what an old wive's tale. First of all, if you are so naive that you can't tell whether the guy just wants to live with you for sex, you have no business making life decisions about getting married yet. Anyway, if people have been dating for a long while, the 'milk' is already flowing without the added hassle of having a woman cluttering up your living space. I seriously doubt that ANY man would actually ask a woman to live with him just for the sex. Now, if it's the submissive-wife type woman who does all the maid work, that might be another story but I don't think there are many of those left, anyway.
moimeme Posted July 15, 2003 Posted July 15, 2003 My thought is that marriage licenses shouldn't be granted until someone has proof that they've completed at least three years of college or trade school, and are at least 26 years of age!! I think the better idea is to refuse to grant a marriage license to anyone who has not done a marriage preparation course.
clia Posted July 15, 2003 Posted July 15, 2003 First of all, if you are so naive that you can't tell whether the guy just wants to live with you for sex, you have no business making life decisions about getting married yet. It's not just sex--it's fear of being the "good for now" girl who he is perfectly happy to live with for a year or two, but has no intention of every marrying.
quankanne Posted July 15, 2003 Posted July 15, 2003 Marriage prep is a good idea, but outside a few churches, who actually offers it? I don't think I've heard of any secular marriage prep classes ... but man, if you could design something like that and market it, pretty soon you'd be laughing all the way to the bank
tango1977 Posted July 15, 2003 Posted July 15, 2003 Originally posted by yes "why buy the cow when the milk is free?" So many women have trouble getting married once they agree to live with the guy. I think the best scenario, if you're considering marrying this person, is to take trips together, sometimes stay over at each other's places for the weekend , etc - i.e. have short versions of living together, but avoid fully moving in together until the rings are in place. As for seeing if it can work out before marrying, that's BS. It may work for a year and fall apart 5 years later - there's no way to know. And it's not like marriage is unbreakable - there's always divorce! (Unless you're insanely religious...) That's my view, but mind you, I'm not married or anything =) -yes I have lived with the same man in our relationship twice. He promised to marry me after we lived together for awhile, that never happened. So my daughter and I moved in with my mother. He asked me to come back and told me he loved me. After 6 months I went back only if he set an engagement date. Well, Aug.1 is the cut off date. For the last few days he has complained about money and how he got screwed out of a lot of comission (family owned business). He hasn't said we aren't getting engaged now but that's what he is leading up to. Do I stick by my guns and tell him to quit making empty promises and leave or do I stick it out hoping that I'm not hoping forever?
Author turtle Posted July 15, 2003 Author Posted July 15, 2003 I think the better idea is to refuse to grant a marriage license to anyone who has not done a marriage preparation course Please! So, did you have to take a course to be a good daughter and/or son? What about friendship? Are there courses to be a good friend? The whole taking a course thing before marriage is just as bad as arranged marriages. Taking a course won't make you all of a sudden a perfect mate for somebody.
RogueK Posted July 15, 2003 Posted July 15, 2003 If he's truly not ready you could continue to pressure him and make your marriage based off of you pushing and him giving. or Leave him because he obviously isn't ready for the next step while you are. Granted in time i'm sure he will be, but it sounds like you are tired of waiting. Do you truly love him? Do you want to be with him or just be married?
RogueK Posted July 15, 2003 Posted July 15, 2003 Originally posted by turtle Please! So, did you have to take a course to be a good daughter and/or son? What about friendship? Are there courses to be a good friend? The whole taking a course thing before marriage is just as bad as arranged marriages. Taking a course won't make you all of a sudden a perfect mate for somebody. I think the idea behind a "pre marriage course" is to ready those who are willing to get married but not ready for the sacrifice and commitment it entails. Lots of people get married for the wrong reason and no one is there to say to them..."are you sure"? It seems people also think "as soon as we're married 'X' problem will go away". Just like how living together means different things to different people i think so does marriage. I agree that thoughts on these topics are best to be discussed before hand. So both parties know where the other stands.
clia Posted July 15, 2003 Posted July 15, 2003 I think anyone who is willing to proactively take a marriage prep course likely doesn't need it.
Al Posted July 15, 2003 Posted July 15, 2003 I definitely think that you should live together before you get married. I dated a guy for four years before we moved in together and in the year and a half that we lived together, I learned more about him and his ways than I did the whole four years before that. Granted we ened up going our separate ways but I think that would have happened eventually whether we lived together or not. We viewed moving in together as the next step in our relationship and that it would either make us or break us. I'm in a new relationship now and I know that I will definitely live with this guy first if we get to the point were we are talking more about the future and long term kind of things. "Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free?" Well would you buy a car before you test drove it? I also have a friend that is living with her bf and they couldn't be happier and I know that they are getting engaged shortly so obviously one person's experiences can't determine anothers.
niko1999 Posted July 15, 2003 Posted July 15, 2003 Rock on Al. I have to say, just your post made ME personally feel better. To say these other posts were making me feel slightly disgruntled would be a lie. I was about to cry, thinking that my bf and I would not work out BECUASE of the fact that we live together, but it does depend on each person and each different situation, I think cohabitaion works well for us, and while it perhaps makes me a little more anxious for a ring, I am enjoying spending my life with him at the moment VERY much.
RogueK Posted July 15, 2003 Posted July 15, 2003 My ex and i broke up because of me, but i know for a fact neither one of us regretted it and to be honest it was the best thing that could have happened to us (even though i was hesitant in the beginning). It would have worked and we'd still be together and happy today but unfortunatley my head wasn't in the game.
tango1977 Posted July 15, 2003 Posted July 15, 2003 Originally posted by RogueK If he's truly not ready you could continue to pressure him and make your marriage based off of you pushing and him giving. or Leave him because he obviously isn't ready for the next step while you are. Granted in time i'm sure he will be, but it sounds like you are tired of waiting. Do you truly love him? Do you want to be with him or just be married? He is the one who brought the whole marriage idea up. He is the one who called and told me he already talked to his friend the jeweler and designed a ring, now that it is down to the last week or so he is trying to get out of it. I don't want to pressure him into marrying me, but you can't promise somebody something and back out at the last minute. It's not like he is telling me the relationship is over and he doesn't want to be with me. It's wanting the "married life" without actually being married. I cook, clean, shop and take care of this man. I wonder if I hadn't moved in if things would be different. Maybe I shouldn't have given the milk away!
RogueK Posted July 15, 2003 Posted July 15, 2003 Originally posted by tango1977 He is the one who brought the whole marriage idea up. He is the one who called and told me he already talked to his friend the jeweler and designed a ring, now that it is down to the last week or so he is trying to get out of it. I don't want to pressure him into marrying me, but you can't promise somebody something and back out at the last minute. It's not like he is telling me the relationship is over and he doesn't want to be with me. It's wanting the "married life" without actually being married. I cook, clean, shop and take care of this man. I wonder if I hadn't moved in if things would be different. Maybe I shouldn't have given the milk away! How long have you two been together? How long ago did he promise this? Did he have to promise to keep you?
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