Can you tell the difference between a "genuinely good guy" and a "player"?

[DanielMadr]

• Women lack integrity and honor

• Women are essentially worthless for everything except sex

• Having any kind of deep emotions for a woman is a sign of weakness

• Favors, compliments and tokens of appreciation is a sign of weakness

 

Daniel, seeing as you go to great depths to come up with such trash.Tell me now, does that mean i am weak of character for thinking entirely the opposite to what you support above?

 

Why debate this so heavily, just get off the fence and proclaim your misogyny. Then at least people wont go to great lengths to reason with someone going to the extreme to prove that they wont listen even if they are 100% wrong in their beliefs.

 

You dont get it. I didnt wrote that. FMG did wrote that. I only commented on that. Those comments you can find elsewhere.

 

First try to think before you judge.

 

My take:

Unless both parties believe they have to give it some effort on many fronts in order to make it successful.

 

 

Yes, in general. They have another understanding of integrity and honor. Because you cant sacrifice your life for it when you have to take care of little baby. And as weaker sex, you have to be cunning and not direct.

 

 

They provide safe harbour and they smell pretty good too. Besides they can produce beautifull little offspings.

 

 

Yes if its sabotages your inegrity and honor. Besides women often misjudge it as weakness.

 

Yes if its sabotages your inegrity and honor. Besides women often misjudge it as weakness.

Edited April 5, 2008 by DanielMadr

[FormerNiceGuy]

You dont get it. I didnt wrote that. FMG did wrote that. I only commented on that. Those comments you can find elsewhere.

 

First try to think before you judge.

 

My take:

 

I wish I wrote that. But I didn't write that post...

 

and you only took four lines out of that entire post. Here's the entire post.

 

Using this perspective to seduce only deepens your misleading beliefs. Assh0les will definitely get laid, but you won't find a quality woman among the bunch! They will all be psycho nut-cases, mental midgets or just plain wh0res. And so the cycle continues, until one day the guy realizes he is not happy, and spite begins to set in as a dark shadow on his blackened heart. He will never admit it in a million years, but he HATES women as much as he lusts for them! It is a toxic mix of desire and contempt which paves the way to the Dark Side.

 

Eventually, our former "nice guy" begins to adopt a completely different mindset:

 

• Successful Relationships are a myth

• Women lack integrity and honor

• Women are essentially worthless for everything except sex

• Having any kind of deep emotions for a woman is a sign of weakness

• Favors, compliments and tokens of appreciation is a sign of weakness

 

And guess what? All these beliefs just snowball into a giant wad of negativity which further taint his interactions with women. Don't worry though, his real lesson will come soon enough

 

Do you know what the point of that post is?

 

Being a jerk gets you nowhere. PLEASE READ THE SECTIONS THAT YOU LEFT OUT! PLEASE!

[FormerNiceGuy]

Read this post here. This holds the answer to your question. I wrote this somewhere else.

 

 

There’s 2 different ways to attract women.

 

The first way..and the most difficult..abeit most rewarding way…is to be the best man that you can be. That means that you excel in everything that you can. Any weakness that you see within yourself, you push yourself so hard to constantly improve and become a better man.

 

Work at it step-by-step.

 

What’s important is that there’s progress!

 

If women see that you’re trying, that you’re trying to be something…they’ll start to see you in a new light.

 

It doesn’t have to be all at once.

 

What’s important is that you’re doing your best and that there’s progress.

 

Think to yourself, “What are 5 things that I need to improve and change?”

 

And work to improve in them…In other words, as long as women see that you’re trying to go at a certain goal, they can sense your determination, drive and ambition.

 

That’s the first way.

 

Then there’s the second way. The path of a player.

 

Do you know why players succeed?

 

It’s because players fool women.

 

Players don’t try to be the “best in life” or “be all that”. But they make women believe that.

 

Remember the wording I used.

 

They make women believe it.

 

What only matters is if the woman thinks that you are the right man.

 

Let’s face it.

 

What happens if you get the “player” and put him in front of a woman…and tell him to not flirt with other women in front of her….

 

The woman thinks this “player” is the perfect man.

 

And the truth is, he’s not. He just knows to flaunt it and act like it.

 

The woman is confused, because he’s not a “nice WIMP”. In other words, the “player” isn’t a doormat. But the “player” doesn't treat her badly like the typical "jerk". He doesn’t talk down to women. He plays with her affectionately.

 

And a woman will have some difficulty finding the difference between the “genuinely good man” and the “player”. But she will quickly find out...

 

You’ll find that there are a lot of us…who haven’t necessarily become “better men”.

 

We just got better at “acting” that way.

 

But the “player” acts like the “good man” and this sometimes throws women off.

 

Let’s look at an example of how the “player” thinks and how the “genuinely good guy” thinks.

 

1. The player thinks of canned lines and funny and cocky lines to use to say to a woman.

 

2. The “genuinely good man” knows how to talk. He has taught himself to TALK.

 

End result: The woman thinks that the “player” is a funny and charismatic

guy. The woman also thinks that the genuinely good man is also a funny and charismatic guy.

 

The difference being that the “genuinely good man” is legit. He has trained himself and excelled in social mastery..whereas the “player” did not.

 

Let’s look at another situation. The playground.

 

1. The player approaches as many women as he can. For in his mind, the player with the most rejections is the one with the most phone numbers.

 

2. The “genuinely good man” doesn’t care so much about approaching a million women, but rather looks for a “genuinely good woman”. In other words, he knows and realizes that the “genuinely good woman” is not going to be some half-drunk floozy woman at a club. The “genuinely good men” realizes that there’s more to women than just sex, that there’s more to them than that.

 

So what is the point that I’m trying to get across?

 

There’s one major problem with the “game”.

 

It won’t last.

 

Do you know why these guys who claim to be "players" never get the right girl?

 

It’s because they only attract hoez.

 

They play with women like toys..and throw the toy away...and get another toy.

 

Here's the irony. They play mind games and all this other bullshyt.....

 

What a sad, sad misconception…for thinking like that will get you the women that you deserve…

 

A stupid and irrational woman who’s full of emotional baggage and has no respect for herself and vents that all upon you.

 

What an empty life.

 

Let me say it again.

 

The problem with the “game” and “playing games” is that they don’t last long.

 

The reason why we have such terrible advice on long-term relationships, is that these “player rules” are tailored for the quick lay. They don’t teach you to go for a woman of substance.

 

What happens when you play games with a woman?

 

It won’t last long.

 

Women aren’t that stupid.

 

They’ll be able to tell if you’re a fake, a player or anything like that….after some time.

 

Quote:

Become a genuine and respectful person yourself and seek to attract the same in a romantic partner. You can't game genuineness, it is either there or it isn't.

 

My point is this. I used to think the same way as most of you guys.

 

I used to think that women were stupid, irrational, dumb, drama and only good for ***ing…that oneitis was for chumps.

 

For it is man..who chooses the angel with the heart of a demon.

 

And one day I grew up and stopped acting like the “player”.

 

And instead, I strived to become a “genuinely good man”.

 

And what I found was this. When I worked on becoming a better man and not so much on acting like it, I attracted the “right girl”, the “genuinely good woman”.

 

Believe me, they’re out there.

 

But they don’t go for players.

__________________

A coward dies a thousand deaths. A soldier dies but once- 2Pac

[DanielMadr]

Dear FormarNiceGuy,

 

would you be so kind and add your views to those "Jerks Mind" sentences? If Jerk sees it the way you proposed (and I dont disagree), so how would you comment on them to prove him wrong. I already did that and Im expecting you will do that too as you promised.

[FormerNiceGuy]

Dear FormarNiceGuy,

 

would you be so kind and add your views to those "Jerks Mind" sentences? If Jerk sees it the way you proposed (and I dont disagree), so how would you comment on them to prove him wrong. I already did that and Im expecting you will do that too as you promised.

 

Successful Relationships are a myth

My thoughts: It is a myth for players and jerks. Why? Because they NEVER HAVE SUCCESSFUL relationships. They have successful flings, not successful relationships. Look at any of the tips from “players” and you’ll find that their advice on long-term relationships suck. Players don’t stay in relationships. And so to them, a relationship is a myth. But these players attract the wrong women. Women who like to be abused and mistreated.

 

These relationships are UNSUCCESSFUL because of three reasons.

 

1. The player has no commitment.

 

Last time I checked...you need commitment to have a "successful relationship"

 

2. The girl figures out that he's a ***in fake and leaves him.

 

You'll NEVER EVER get the right girls at the club..and that's the main arena for the player.

 

3. THE IDEAL RELATIONSHIP IS WHERE YOU LIKE SOMEONE AND HE/SHE PUTS THE SAME AMOUNT OF EFFORT INTO THE RELATIONSHIP AS YOU DO FOR HIM/HER. She should like you as much as you like her. She should put as much into the relationship as you do for her...

 

In the case of the player/jerk...the girl is putting a lot into the relationship but the player isn't putting that much into it.....Pretty soon, the girl catches on. She dumps his azz because she won't get mistreated like this. And the relationship ends.

 

But....

 

If your a self centered narcissist only concerned with himself then yes girls will come....dependent ones that are willing to work around your schedule because they feel value from being with you. Type in google==> "emotional baggage" and "damaged goods"

 

Quote: Women lack integrity and honor

I don’t judge an entire gender. That’s what you call prejudice. I've known a lot of women with honor and integrity...my mother for example. And I'm sure your mother was the same way. I have female friends and past girlfriends...and I know that this statement is a crock of ****.

 

Most jerks who are jealous that a girl would cheat on them feel that way because they are the kind of person who would have done that!

 

Women are essentially worthless for everything except sex

Nope. Obviously as a man, that’s an objective, but there are more to women than just that. Look Dan, if you’re looking to only get laid, save yourself some trouble and go get a hooker.

 

But if you want a good girl, be "real" and stop playing games.

 

Dude, you have this misconception on what I'm saying to you. I'm not saying that "nice guys" get laid. They don't. I'm saying that a "GENUINE MAN" gets the right girl.

 

I want the dime. QUALITY not quantity.

 

Having any kind of deep emotions for a woman is a sign of weakness

I actually will agree with this one. Keep your emotions in check. You’ll scare her off otherwise.

Favors, compliments and tokens of appreciation is a sign of weakness

I agree with this one. Never try to buy a woman’s affections. Edited April 7, 2008 by FormerNiceGuy

[DanielMadr]

You posted some questions concerning me, so Im compelled to answer.

 

I've known a lot of women with honor and integrity...my mother for example. And I'm sure your mother was the same way. I have female friends and past girlfriends...and I know that this statement is a crock of ****.

My fathers sense of honor and integrity is much closer to me. My mom had a child to take care of and couldnt risk a conflict with stranger men, so she had more flexible sense of these two traits.

Look Dan, if you’re looking to only get laid, save yourself some trouble and go get a hooker.

But if you want a good girl, be "real" and stop playing games.

Drop it dude. Dont try to portrait me as an azzhole here. Dont take this debate on personal level.

 

Dude, you have this misconception on what I'm saying to you. I'm not saying that "nice guys" get laid. They don't. I'm saying that a "GENUINE MAN" gets the girls.

 

All Im telling you is your view of Genuine Man is naive. Genuine Man will be unable to attract a woman who doesnt know him for long. Thats all.

[Taramere]

 

I repeat, the most important thing an English(or whatever) gentleman has to learn is when to stop being one.

 

Here's how an English gentleman might respond to that advice:

 

"F*ck off, you grocer. You don't tell a gentleman how to dress on a Friday."

 

(Nicholas Soames, aristo MP, who responded so on having his clothes sneered at by fellow MP Tim Sainsbury of the Sainsbury's supermarket chain.)

[TheFonz]

My thoughts: It is a myth for players and jerks. Why? Because they NEVER HAVE SUCCESSFUL relationships. They have successful flings, not successful relationships. Look at any of the tips from “players” and you’ll find that their advice on long-term relationships suck. Players don’t stay in relationships. And so to them, a relationship is a myth. But these players attract the wrong women. Women who like to be abused and mistreated.

 

These relationships are UNSUCCESSFUL because of three reasons.

 

1. The player has no commitment.

 

Last time I checked...you need commitment to have a "successful relationship"

 

2. The girl figures out that he's a ***in fake and leaves him.

 

You'll NEVER EVER get the right girls at the club..and that's the main arena for the player.

 

3. THE IDEAL RELATIONSHIP IS WHERE YOU LIKE SOMEONE AND HE/SHE PUTS THE SAME AMOUNT OF EFFORT INTO THE RELATIONSHIP AS YOU DO FOR HIM/HER. She should like you as much as you like her. She should put as much into the relationship as you do for her...

 

In the case of the player/jerk...the girl is putting a lot into the relationship but the player isn't putting that much into it.....Pretty soon, the girl catches on. She dumps his azz because she won't get mistreated like this. And the relationship ends.

 

But....

 

If your a self centered narcissist only concerned with himself then yes girls will come....dependent ones that are willing to work around your schedule because they feel value from being with you. Type in google==> "emotional baggage" and "damaged goods"

 

I still think it's all theoretical and a idealism to say jerks don't have relationships and only attract a subset of women and that the hypothetical GGguy attracts quality women and has quality relationships. Reality is quite different.

 

 

But if you want a good girl, be "real" and stop playing games.

 

These quotes above and below are a contradiction and evidence that you can't be genuine.

 

I actually will agree with this one. Keep your emotions in check. You’ll scare her off otherwise.

I agree with this one. Never try to buy a woman’s affections.

[DanielMadr]

I need this

I need love

I need you

I don't need one hearbeat

I need two

 

There's an emptiness I need to fill

And only one emptiness will do

 

Only a woman

Can brighten up my day

Only a woman

Can touch me the right way

Only a woman

Is allowed to touch me there

All I ask is that you're a woman

 

I like rain, I like ham

I like you

You're around, you're right here

So you'll do

 

I'm gonna tell you how much I love your mind

But it simply isn't true

 

Only a woman

Can brighten up my day

Only a woman

Can touch me the right way

Only a woman

Is allowed to do what you're doing right now

All I ask is that you're a woman

 

And on saturdays when I've been partying hard

And it's 4 in the morning, and I'm on my fith tab of E

that's the only time I don't even care if you are a woman

 

Right now

Only a woman

Can brighten up my day

Only a woman

Can do it just the right way

Only a woman

Should be doing that right now

I just want you to be a woman

Please just be a woman

Or a man...

[Adunaphel]

I've noticed that whenever I am with a genuinely nice guy (that I'm interested in) I feel like myself, I feel no need whatsoever to impress him and I am not afraid to listen to either my gut feelings or my heart.

[DanielMadr]

I've noticed that whenever I am with a genuinely nice guy (that I'm interested in) I feel like myself, I feel no need whatsoever to impress him and I am not afraid to listen to either my gut feelings or my heart.

 

You know, Adunaphel, we have a dilemma. And it is about "that I'm interested in" you mentioned.

 

I say that being genuinely good wont be able to hook the girl - you see for first time on a street.

 

I say that you have to be artificially bad - or rather bit more playful than normal or bold to achieve that attraction.

[Adunaphel]

You know, Adunaphel, we have a dilemma. And it is about "that I'm interested in" you mentioned.

 

I say that being genuinely good wont be able to hook the girl - you see for first time on a street.

 

I say that you have to be artificially bad - or rather bit more playful than normal or bold to achieve that attraction.

 

I have to admit that I'd tend to be wary of any guy who managed to approach me that way without looking embarassed or sounding like a perfect idiot.

[DanielMadr]

I have to admit that I'd tend to be wary of any guy who managed to approach me without looking embarassed or sounding like a perfect idiot.

 

Embarrassed looking, sounding like idiot = you no worries = no attraction

 

 

Confident maybe even cocky, smiling guy = you very worried = wet panties

 

Never ever in the history of humankind had a guy chance with a strange girl when appearing nervous, unless he was very good looking and she was very ugly.

[Adunaphel]

Embarrassed looking, sounding like idiot = you no worries = no attraction

 

 

Confident maybe even cocky, smiling guy = you very worried = wet panties

 

Never ever in the history of humankind had a guy chance with a strange girl when appearing nervous, unless he was very good looking and she was very ugly.

 

Looks embarassed and sounds like an idiot = is probably not used to approaching girls he does not know = why did he approach me?

 

Confident, maybe even cocky, smiling = probably used to approaching strangers= he might be a player or he might be after *something*.

 

Looks matter up to a point when your real self is shining through and the other person likes what he/she sees. Imho.

[DanielMadr]

Looks embarassed and sounds like an idiot = is probably not used to approaching girls he does not know = why did he approach me?

His lack of experience could mean there is something wrong with him - like he left his parents basement that very day for first time? Why would he approach you? For that *something* of course.

 

Confident, maybe even cocky, smiling = probably used to approaching strangers= he might be a player or he might be after *something*.

*Something*? Oh NOOOO. Another one wanting to have sex with you???? What a pig. Shame on him. You dont do that, you are the good girl.

 

Looks matter up to a point when your real self is shining through and the other person likes what he/she sees. Imho.

O.K. thats sounds too cliche. But I probably know what you mean. Ive seen hot, hot guys burn approaching women. And the very same guys be very succesful when they stopped being nervous and let the "real them" shine through.

 

Girl, you seem to be the one of girls, who try to sabotage guys by telling them that they are so attracted to those nervous, shaking ones with whiny voices.....oh so cute. Get real.

[Adunaphel]

His lack of experience could mean there is something wrong with him - like he left his parents basement that very day for first time?

It could just mean that approaching girls boldly is not an habit to him.

 

*Something*? Oh NOOOO. Another one wanting to have sex with you????

Or wanting to make me sign some papers, wanting me to give him money, wanting to sell me a set of volumes on medieval history, wanting to lure me into embracing a new religion, anything.

Most times a guy will approach me on the street, he is indeed after something different from having sex with me.

 

Girl, you seem to be the one of girls, who try to sabotage guys by telling them that they are so attracted to those nervous, shaking ones with whiny voices.....oh so cute. Get real.

I never said that.

I just said that I am wary of people who approach me while I'm walking, minding my own business, but if the guy approaching me looks nervous and shy, like it cost him some effort to approach me, I might be more inclined to listen.

[DanielMadr]

I just said that I am wary of people who approach me while I'm walking, minding my own business, but if the guy approaching me looks nervous and shy, like it cost him some effort to approach me, I might be more inclined to listen.

 

Good Street-selling tactics....Look like it cost you some effort....they may feel pity for you....and buy something

 

Id rather bet on good merchandise than on tactics. And once the merchandise is Him. Being confident about it, might help.

 

So, where and how have you met your BF or husband, if I may ask?

[Adunaphel]

Id rather bet on good merchandise than on tactics. And once the merchandise is Him. Being confident about it, might help.

 

So, where and how have you met your BF or husband, if I may ask?

 

I am currently single, so I can't really answer. Most of the guys I dated so far, I met either through mutual friends or on the internet. In a couple of cases, they were perfect strangers until we struck up a conversation.

 

Anyway, I hope that my next bf won't feel the need to 'sell himself well' to impress me. I hope he'll get the wonderful "I am not worried of showing you who I am" feeling I usually get when I'm dating genuinely nice people.

[DanielMadr]

I hope he'll get the wonderful "I am not worried of showing you who I am" feeling I usually get when I'm dating genuinely nice people.

 

That what I meant.

 

And I hope you stay away from prejudice and in the same time see through his acting if present

 

Good luck. And If I may suggest an advice.....stay of the internet, please. It has certain advantages but many disadvantages.

 

For a guy to use internet dating there must be something wrong with him like 90% of time. And the rest 10%, well it is too small of a chance for you to waste your time.

[Adunaphel]

That what I meant.

 

And I hope you stay away from prejudice and in the same time see through his acting if present

 

Good luck. And If I may suggest an advice.....stay of the internet, please. It has certain advantages but many disadvantages.

 

For a guy to use internet dating there must be something wrong with him like 90% of time. And the rest 10%, well it is too small of a chance for you to waste your time.

 

Thank you a lot for both wishing me luck and for the advice.

And you are right about the internet, it's a tricky environment. The only guy really worth getting to know better I met on the internet I met when I wasn't looking for a date in a website that had nothing to do with personals, but many friends of mine (who hang out in both dating and non-dating sites) haven't been so lucky.

 

Threads like this one can be extremely useful - even if I think I had enough experience with players to be able to spot most of them, any more insight can be precious. I can't wait to read new replies the OP will get!

[TheFonz]

I've noticed that whenever I am with a genuinely nice guy (that I'm interested in) I feel like myself, I feel no need whatsoever to impress him and I am not afraid to listen to either my gut feelings or my heart.

 

This means you feel like you have him in the bag and you are not sexually attracted to him. You are thinking about what some other bad guy might do to you later on tonight. What you just described is a male friend.

[underpants]

This means you feel like you have him in the bag and you are not sexually attracted to him. You are thinking about what some other bad guy might do to you later on tonight. What you just described is a male friend.

 

Some may feel that genuine friendship and sexual attraction are not mutually exclusive concepts.

[TheFonz]

Some may feel that genuine friendship and sexual attraction are not mutually exclusive concepts.

 

No I'm saying becoming a friend before sex means you will be just a friend without benefits.

[FormerNiceGuy]

This means you feel like you have him in the bag and you are not sexually attracted to him. You are thinking about what some other bad guy might do to you later on tonight. What you just described is a male friend.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtEej1FHVCc&feature=related

 

Basically..she's saying "nice guys" becomes one of the "girls".

But the guy who's assertive (and not necessarily a jerk) will finish 1st. He must be a leader.

 

 

In other words...don't be this ==>

Edited April 8, 2008 by FormerNiceGuy

[Trialbyfire]

No I'm saying becoming a friend before sex means you will be just a friend without benefits.

Not necessarily. For example, I have male friends in two categories. One category are close friends, where I would rather slit my wrists, rather than consider them anything but friends because they are like brothers to me. It would be like incest. The other category are guys who are friends who could potentially be something more, since they've expressed attraction.

 

The men who I've had relationships with, I not only cared for them in the romantic sense but I also liked them, as people, therefore considered them during the term of the relationship, as friends.