Can you tell the difference between a "genuinely good guy" and a "player"?

[FormerNiceGuy]

Ok I'm just going with what you're saying and not necessarily agreeing with treating a girl like a princess regrdless of the wuthority you do it with, and I'm just focusing on the "authority" aspect. Would you agree that if a man wasn't born with the authority of a prince and if he was being himself he'd act more with authority of a peasant, Now do you believe that a man should change and act with the authority of a prince or not? A lot of people on here are basically saying if you're a peasant stay a peasant, becoming a prince is not being yourself.

 

I hear what you're saying....

 

Look.

 

Let's face it.

 

"Just be yourself" is the advice that you hear from losers too.

 

It's because you are basically telling a "caterpillar"..."Just be yourself".

 

He wont' change. He won't grow.

 

It's about becoming the person that you want to be.

 

It is to be the best man that you can be. That means that you excel in everything that you can. Any weakness that you see within yourself, you push yourself so hard to constantly improve and become a better man.

 

Work at it step-by-step.

 

What’s important is that there’s progress!

 

If women see that you’re trying, that you’re trying to be something…they’ll start to see you in a new light.

 

It doesn’t have to be all at once.

 

What’s important is that you’re doing your best and that there’s progress.

 

Think to yourself, “What are 5 things that I need to improve and change?”

 

And work to improve in them…In other words, as long as women see that you’re trying to go at a certain goal, they can sense your determination, drive and ambition.

 

All you need to do is focus on succeeding in life. Forget about the women for now. Just focus on yourself. Because when you improve your life and focus on yourself, the women will come. That’s all you need to do. Just do the best that you can in life.

[BareGoddess]

“The attributes of “genuinely good guys” are often mirrored by players and dirt balls because they know showing you what you want to see in order to get what they want.”

Playas get what they want Just look in the mirror and you'll see.

 

“A GOOD player is selective, which is what makes it more difficult to distinguish him from a good guy. A player is too much, too soon, too fast.”

 

Sometimes playas get down and dirty too fast. Nice guys hold back.

 

“Genuine just means that he is honest with himself. A player is neither here nor there when discussing honesty.

 

Playas don't know shyt. Nice guys are honest with themselves (whatever that means) ”

 

“I agree that a good player is sometimes difficult to distinguish, from men who have hearts and souls. If you aren't able to distinguish right away, time always tells. No one can keep up an act forever.”

 

Playas have hearts and souls but you can't see it right away. Time will tell though. Eventually their heart and souls will be ready for hell's door. No one can keep up an act forever.

 

“Yes you can tell the difference between the “genuinely good man” and the “player”, but unfortunately, only after you've had the misfortune of some dealings with a couple of them. Once you have been run over by one or two, you can see them coming a mile away.”

 

The good man will run you over but won't leave tread marks. The players will run you over a few times and then let you know they're coming again. I think you'd have at least a mile's head start.

 

“Time will tell, everybody can be fooled at first, but after a while the player will tire or give up his act, whereas the good guy stays the same.”

 

The player will be so tired and the good guy will be tired too.

 

 

“I can only speak for the "players" I've encountered. They were all talk and no action.”

 

“The mask slips eventually. Human beings can't help being themselves usually.”

 

The playas take off their masks after awhile.

 

“A player will be a good guy to begin with, then his house of cards will start to slide when maintaining the charade is too much.”

 

Same as above

 

“Players rarely settle down. They either pretend to, or fool themselves into believing they can. Most often, they will fail unless they make a serious choice to change themselves by changing the strong "NEED" for external validation of who they are. In essence, they learn how to self-validate. Good MEN are honest, or at least try to be.”

 

Players live in their mom's basements.

 

“No girl can offer enough to a real player. Playing women is a game, which provides a player with a fix, to alleviate his neediness.”

 

Playas need a double cheeseburger sometimes. Most chicks won't offer such a thing.

 

"A player lies and manipulates, to attain his end goal, which is usually getting into the girl's pants. The Good Man attracts women without hurting them."

 

Playas want pvussy and will do anything to get it. Nice guys will get pvussy without even trying.

"The player plays with women like they are toys. He plays with his toy. Then he throws it away and gets another one. This is different from the "genuinely good guy".

 

The playa plays with his toy. He rubs it until it's raw. Then he goes to bed and pretends he can get a woman.

[DanielMadr]

Why Genuine Man HAS TO adopt the tactics of a Player in order to be succesful when courting a woman who doesnt know him from his childhood days or really well?????????????????????????????????????????????????????

[FormerNiceGuy]

Why Genuine Man HAS TO adopt the tactics of a Player in order to be succesful when courting a woman who doesnt know him from his childhood days or really well?????????????????????????????????????????????????????

 

He doesn't.

 

Man..I wish I had this hilarious cartoon that could show you what I'm talking about. It's a cartoon made by Matt Groening..(the guy who made the Simpsons) It's called "Love is Hell"

 

Anyways it shows two smiling and well-dressed guys (or bunnies)

 

It shows guy #1: "Mr. Right"

It shows guy #2: "The player"

 

It's funny because when you look at the picture...they look IDENTICAL!

 

It's funny because the only..............small.....difference is that the "player's smile" is a bit..fake. But you really have to look at it.

 

HA HA!

 

In other words...the "player" copies the good attributes from the "genuinely good guy".

 

 

 

If I had to make an analogy...

 

1. there's the guy with the messy room.

2. there's the guy who really has a clean room.

3. and there's the guy who "seems" to have a clean room. The only thing is that he stashed everything into a dark closet. (he's hiding his mess)

Edited April 3, 2008 by FormerNiceGuy

[DanielMadr]

He doesn't.

 

Man..I wish I had this hilarious cartoon that could show you what I'm talking about. It's a cartoon made by Matt Groening..(the guy who made the Simpsons) It's called "Love is Hell"

 

Anyways it shows two smiling and well-dressed guys (or bunnies)

 

It shows guy #1: "Mr. Right"

It shows guy #2: "The player"

 

It's funny because when you look at the picture...they look IDENTICAL!

 

It's funny because the only..............small.....difference is that the "player's smile" is a bit..fake. But you really have to look at it.

 

HA HA!

 

In other words...the "player" copies the good attributes from the "genuinely good guy".

 

 

 

If I had to make an analogy...

 

1. there's the guy with the messy room.

2. there's the guy who really has a clean room.

3. and there's the guy who "seems" to have a clean room. The only thing is that he stashed everything into a dark closet. (he's hiding his mess)

 

I get it. Lack of personal integrity/honesty in Player. What Im trying to do is "sabotage" your theory about Genuine Guys, heh

 

Lets say, you have Mr.Right (like you) - he is honest, has backbone, is strong and confident in most aspects of his life - 100% better catch than a player. Yet when he meets a woman for 1st time - she doesnt know any of his qualities - he will burn. Why? Because he doesnt have the skills to efficiently show his qualities. So he asks his friend a Player, how to do that. How to efficiently "tell" the girl he is quality. And the Player answers "I dont know, Im imitating you all the time"????? Probably not.

 

It is the problem I had. When I knew the girl for longer time, it was no problem hooking up with her - she knew me. But when I tried to chat up some girl I didnt know - CRASH. And it was a big problem for me - I have only the possibility of approaching total strangers. Girls I know better either dont attract me or they are getting married (3).

[TheFonz]

I get it. Lack of personal integrity/honesty in Player. What Im trying to do is "sabotage" your theory about Genuine Guys, heh

 

Lets say, you have Mr.Right (like you) - he is honest, has backbone, is strong and confident in most aspects of his life - 100% better catch than a player. Yet when he meets a woman for 1st time - she doesnt know any of his qualities - he will burn. Why? Because he doesnt have the skills to efficiently show his qualities. So he asks his friend a Player, how to do that. How to efficiently "tell" the girl he is quality. And the Player answers "I dont know, Im imitating you all the time"????? Probably not.

 

It is the problem I had. When I knew the girl for longer time, it was no problem hooking up with her - she knew me. But when I tried to chat up some girl I didnt know - CRASH. And it was a big problem for me - I have only the possibility of approaching total strangers. Girls I know better either dont attract me or they are getting married (3).

 

 

I refer you to "A theory and observation many guys have" thread and your question will be answered.

[DanielMadr]

I refer you to "A theory and observation many guys have" thread and your question will be answered.

 

I know the answer. I wanted FormerNiceGuy to ask it. In order for him to drop the dogma of Genuine Good Guy. There are only Dicks, Pussies and Azzholes.

 

Genuine Good Guy has to still be a in Dick category in order to pull women and win the war. And some Pussies will shoot him down no matter what just because he is a Dick. Pushing agenda (fairytale) about Princes on White Horses aka Genuine Good Guys will do no good for him.

 

As a Former Nice Guy he should decide by now if he is either Dick or Pussy.

 

Gary, Team America:

Pussies don't like dicks, because pussies get f*cked by dicks. But dicks also f*ck as*holes: as*holes that just want to sh*t on everything. Pussies may think they can deal with as*holes their way. But the only thing that can f*ck an as*hole is a dick, with some balls. The problem with dicks is: they f*ck too much or f*ck when it isn't appropriate - and it takes a pussy to show them that. But sometimes, pussies can be so full of sh*t that they become as*holes themselves... because pussies are an inch and half away from as* holes. I don't know much about this crazy, crazy world, but I do know this: If you don't let us f*ck this as*hole, we're going to have our dicks and pussies all covered in sh*t!

[underpants]

Pussies don't like dicks, because pussies get f*cked by dicks. But dicks also f*ck as*holes: as*holes that just want to sh*t on everything. Pussies may think they can deal with as*holes their way. But the only thing that can f*ck an as*hole is a dick, with some balls. The problem with dicks is: they f*ck too much or f*ck when it isn't appropriate - and it takes a pussy to show them that. But sometimes, pussies can be so full of sh*t that they become as*holes themselves... because pussies are an inch and half away from as* holes. I don't know much about this crazy, crazy world, but I do know this: If you don't let us f*ck this as*hole, we're going to have our dicks and pussies all covered in sh*t!

 

:lmao:

 

That movie was so wrong...and funny.

[DanielMadr]

:lmao:

 

That movie was so wrong...and funny.

 

WLONG?

 

Lisa: Promise me you'll never die.

Gary Johnston: You know I can't promise that.

Lisa: If you did that, I would make love to you right now.

Gary Johnston: I promise I'll never die.

[FormerNiceGuy]

I know the answer. I wanted FormerNiceGuy to ask it. In order for him to drop the dogma of Genuine Good Guy. There are only Dicks, Pussies and Azzholes.

 

Genuine Good Guy has to still be a in Dick category in order to pull women and win the war. And some Pussies will shoot him down no matter what just because he is a Dick. Pushing agenda (fairytale) about Princes on White Horses aka Genuine Good Guys will do no good for him.

 

As a Former Nice Guy he should decide by now if he is either Dick or Pussy.

 

Gary, Team America:

 

I used to think EXACTLY LIKE you.

 

Exactly the same...but I learned something. I'll tell you why a Genuinely good guy is DIFFERENT from a nice guy..and I'll tell you how he's better than a "player" and a "jerk".....

 

It’s going to be hard for me to explain this…but I’ll just lay across points.

 

 

First of all, the “wimpy nice guy” doesn’t understand and KNOW when enough is enough. In other words, he keeps chasing after a girl, even if she doesn’t like him. In other words…you should never try to keep someone who does not want to keep you.

 

 

Second of all, a lot of “nice guys” go into a lot of effort to specifically win a woman over, treating her much better than they’d treat anyone else. The jerk does the opposite. But the genuinely good man just treats her same.

 

 

Third of all, a jerk and a player doesn’t care about what a woman thinks of him, so he doesn’t fear failure with her. The “nice wimp” is too afraid to approach women. The “genuinely good guy” DOES care about what women think, but he approaches women with assertiveness and confidence but is still considerate towards her feelings.

 

 

Fourth of all, most of these jerks are immature and insecure.

 

 

So what you see is an illusion.

 

 

 

You think they are succeeding with beautiful women. But what you don’t see are that 90% of these women are head-cases!

 

 

But on the same token, what does the “wimpy nice guy” attract?

 

 

Friends.

 

 

But what does the “genuinely good MAN” attract?

 

 

A genuinely good woman.

 

 

A genuinely good guy has become mature. He has learned to live with that he cannot change….the COURAGE to CHANGE that which should be changed…..AND the WISDOM to know the difference.

 

 

Both you and Fonz keep telling me..”be a jerk!”

 

 

Do you want to be the kind of dad that’s a “jerk”, “player” ,“wimpy nice guy”? Or do you want to be the dad that is a “good MAN” that will take care of his family.

 

 

You see..the thing is “Wimpy nice guys” think, “Does she like me? Does she like me? Was that a sign that she likes me?

 

 

“Jerks” think “Who cares! I’m going for it!”

 

 

And Genuinely good MEN think the same way too…”Who cares! I’m going for it!”

 

 

The key word is ACTION.

 

 

You must take action. The “nice wimp” doesn’t take action. The “jerk” and the “player” take action! And the “genuinely good man” takes action too.

 

 

That’s why…you shouldn’t worry about finding the right woman. Concentrate on being the right man.

 

A “nice wimp” follows behind a woman. A good MAN takes his girl by the hand and leads.

 

A “nice wimp” has no confidence. A good MAN is confident and believes in himself.

 

A “nice wimp” has thinly veiled ulterior motives. A good MAN just makes a move and takes charge and he doesn’t apologize that he happens to like sexy ladies.

 

 

So now that we’ve discussed all that..there is ONE more thing that the Genuinely good guy must change to do well with women.

 

 

And this is a skill that “players” have.

 

 

And what is it?

 

 

Talking.

 

 

It's easy to act like you are a "man". But that by itself won't get you a girl. It's easy to change the way you look. But that by itself won't get you there.

 

 

You must know how to talk to women.

 

The key is in TALKING to her. Seriously that is the only thing that matters.

 

Women love to talk. And if you get her talking, and you get her talking about things that SHE is INTERESTED in, you have her interested...

 

Guys memorize pickup lines.and memorize stories..for what?

 

The people who SUCCEED don’t need NONE of that crap! Game doesn’t come from pickup lines. Otherwise EVERY idiot who had a list of “effective” pickup lines would be pulling women left and right. But that’s not how it is.

 

Pickup lines lose. And losers pick “pickup lines”

If you want to get a girl to like you, it has to be natural. You don’t need that stupid ****!

YOU JUST NEED TO KNOW HOW TO TALK.

 

Therein lies the problem for a lot of fellas. They want to be able to talk to a woman…but…they don’t even have friends. They don’t even know how to talk to real people. They don’t have a lot of friends. They aren’t popular.

 

 

THEY DON'T KNOW HOW TO TALK.

 

 

How in the hell do they expect to talk to women, if they don’t even know how to talk to regular people?

 

 

You see….

 

In order to talk to women….. you have to work from the bottom up. If you don’t have friends right now… and have difficulty talking to people……and don't know HOW TO TALK....how in the hell do you expect to talk to a lady?

 

Lots of people who are popular and are successful with women are really charismatic and outgoing. And they ALL know how to talk.

 

It’s hard to teach someone to be outgoing.

 

That’s why there isn’t a degree in Sales. Because some people are naturally outgoing and some just aren’t… That’s why not anyone can do “sales” or be persuasive or get along with everybody.

 

The problem is….there’s a lot of people (GASP) … who don’t know how to make friends…who don’t know how to talk to people…who are socially inadequate…….and who HOPE to be able to talk to a girl….

 

 

That’s a disaster waiting to happen.

 

 

 

If you don’t even know how to make friends and talk to normal people….you're going nowhere.

 

Quite simply…talking to women…is just a HIGHER standard of speaking. You can’t skip steps. You have to start from the beginning…making friends…

 

It goes like this.

 

You have to change your mentality to attract friends...

 

And then....you choose the right friends.

 

And then....you keep hanging out with the right friends and taking every opportunity that they hand to you. A party at 7? Go! A movie with the group at 10? Go! Go Go. You can't ever become comfortable with women unless you first develop your conversational skills with regular people.

 

and then move your way up...choose the right friends. Choose the friends that will help you move up. Choose to hang out with guys who are successful with women...guys who can teach you....

 

This leads to a CAUSE AND EFFECT:

 

You would have an easier time getting along with friends and getting new opportunities===>

 

and this would allow you to hang out with new people and it would allow you to pick the right friends that move you up in life==>

 

and these friends could teach you. And these friends could guide you through their actions. For you will learn more from these people than from texts, forums and stupid tactics. You will learn more from REAL guys that you know and watch and see...then reading tactics from some "player" ==>

 

and this CONSTANT exposure to these actions and these people will slowly allow you to learn how to TALK. For the saying is true. "Tell me who you walk with and I will tell you who you are."

 

==>

 

and this circle of friends that you constantly hang out with gradually make you more outgoing..

==>

 

and then you develop the courage to approach women.

 

==>

 

and then you practice what you have learned.

 

==>

 

and then you fail OR succeed.

 

==>

and then you learn.

 

You see, you can't skip any steps. You have to decide at what step you are currently at...Lots of guys just want to skip steps. They want to read "tactics” and "pickup lines" but it's because they don’t know how to TALK.

 

 

They want short cuts. When it comes to game, there is no shortcuts.

 

Generally, when you are speaking to a woman, you don't need to come up with some stupid pickup line or some stupid cheezy story that you made up.

 

No...you treat her like someone you know...even if you don’t even know her….you act like you KNOW her and that she KNOWS you...

 

 

And so let's go back to the question...

 

 

You say that a “player” and a “jerk” will win over a “genuinely good guy” because they’ve been dealing with other women and all that….

 

 

And my answer to that is this.

 

 

The “genuinely good guy” that has confidence and assertiveness and can TALK will win over all those guys.

[Taramere]

IThird of all, a jerk and a player doesn’t care about what a woman thinks of him, so he doesn’t fear failure with her.

 

"Not caring/not needing other people's validation" might be an intrinsic aspect of the image a jerk likes to present. He or she might even go overboard with anti-social or controversial behaviour in an attempt to show how little they care what others think....but that's just overcompensating for their fear of not being liked plus attention seeking.

 

Narcissists are obsessed by what others think of them. Their whole identity depends on it. And what's a player if not a narcissist?

[Trialbyfire]

"Not caring/not needing other people's validation" might be an intrinsic aspect of the image a jerk likes to present. He or she might even go overboard with anti-social or controversial behaviour in an attempt to show how little they care what others think....but that's just overcompensating for their fear of not being liked plus attention seeking.

 

Narcissists are obsessed by what others think of them. Their whole identity depends on it. And what's a player if not a narcissist?

Oh, oh, oh...do ask me what a narcissist is!!

 

Yes, they feed off others. Without external validation, they wither away. What they don't care about, is how their actions impact on someone else. This is exactly the emotional vampire aspect, I mentioned previously!

[beta]

I have a question for all of you.

 

Can you tell the difference between a "genuinely good guy" and a "player"?

 

Obviously the main difference is that the player goes after every girl that walks his way.

 

But I wanted to ask a hypothetical question.

 

Maybe this is mostly to the women.

 

If you never saw a "player" flirting with any other girls other than you, how can you tell if he's a "genuinely good guy" or a "player"?

 

Because I feel that the "player" emulates certain characteristics that make him seem like the perfect guy.....and it's hard to tell the difference between the 2.

 

What are your thoughts?

 

If we could tell the difference, they wouldn't be called players, they would be called giggalows! (sp?)

[carhill]

gigolo -

 

gig·o·lo

1.A man who has a continuing sexual relationship with and receives financial support from a woman

2. A man who is hired as an escort or a dancing partner for a woman.

 

[French, perhaps from gigolette, dancing girl, prostitute, from giguer, to dance, from gigue, fiddle, from Old French; see gigot.]

[DanielMadr]

I used to think EXACTLY LIKE you.

 

Exactly the same...but I learned something. I'll tell you why a Genuinely good guy is DIFFERENT from a nice guy..and I'll tell you how he's better than a "player" and a "jerk".....

 

Nobody is telling you to be a Jerk or Player. They are Azzholes in my book.

 

All Im telling you is, you have to be far more closer to a Dick than you think, to charm strange woman or win a fight. Not a Jerk or Player. Not evil, just more cool and cereless.

 

Genuine Good Guy wants to find the one, marry her and have kids. Fine. But when you go for woman thinking about how good wife she would make, well, your doubts will sabotage you. So let the marriage and kids stuff to girls and be a little dick. Not hurting, just not caring that much.

 

 

 

Get me?

[DanielMadr]

“Jerks” think “Who cares! I’m going for it!”

 

 

And Genuinely good MEN think the same way too…”Who cares! I’m going for it!”

Nope. Jerk really doesnt care. GGMen do care, at least abou the girl and it gives them disadvantage. In short term only, thats right. But the Short Term is essencial - because it is the first few minutes-hours that decide whether she gives him her number.

So now that we’ve discussed all that..there is ONE more thing that the Genuinely good guy must change to do well with women.

 

 

And this is a skill that “players” have.

 

 

And what is it?

 

 

Talking.

Wll, you see, GGMen has to learn Players skills to effectively attract woman.

Isnt it sad?

The “genuinely good guy” that has confidence and assertiveness and can TALK will win over all those guys.

 

I dont want to nit-pick on this word..but....Talk the Talk or Walk the Walk.

 

 

Look, my whole "dilemma" is when you are GGMan and can TALK aka you are good in dealing with women.....you fall in the category of Player. And when you are GGman but cant talk like a player you come out as a wussy. No win situation.

 

Why? Because women in most cases cant tell the difference, they dont see the vibes. They get confused/played pretty often. And the Good girls are so unexperienced with dealing with guys they are totally lost. For them you are either Dick or (too) Nice or Joe (they know for 10 years). Experienced, usually older women - who lack insecurities and doubts about themselves and guys - can spot GGMan in 100mile radius.

 

So you really dont have to bother with giving girls intellectual knowledge. It wont make a difference. For you - dont get surprised when you do all the stuff from your "soul-manual" and end up "unappreciated".

 

Bottom line - Cold approach will only work when you behave like total Dick and the girl has need for a dick.

[FormerNiceGuy]

- because it is the first few minutes-hours that decide whether she gives him her number.

A woman decides within the first minute. First impressions count.

 

Wll, you see, GGMen has to learn Players skills to effectively attract woman.

Isnt it sad?

No.

 

Ha ha......I feel like I'm battling two sides. I'm battling you and Fonz by telling you that you don't need to be an "jerk" with women.

 

and I'm battling some chumps here..by telling them, "NO! Don't buy 20 dozen flowers for that girl you don't even know! Stop being a chump!"

 

I'll explain...

 

I dont want to nit-pick on this word..but....Talk the Talk or Walk the Walk.

You don't know me or my past.

 

Look, my whole "dilemma" is when you are GGMan and can TALK aka you are good in dealing with women.....you fall in the category of Player. And when you are GGman but cant talk like a player you come out as a wussy. No win situation.

Again, you're confusing the "nice wimp" from the "nice MAN".

 

I hate to use movie analogies..but since YOU have used one, I'll use one too.

 

Ever seen the movie, "Gladiator"?

 

The main character of that movie is a bad-azz. You wouldn't want to try to pick a fight with him...BUT...he's a good guy. He's a leader. He's a fighter. He's a warrior. He has ambition. He is confident, self-secure, powerful, and he has sheer willpower and he takes action.

 

But..he's a genuinely good guy...

 

He was a man of VIRTUE.

 

Is he a guy that lets women step on him? Is he the kind of guy that abuses women? Is he the kind of guy that "plays" with women?

 

Why is this so hard for you to understand? The genuinely good MAN is NOT a pushover. He's a MAN..a leader...but he's a GOOD man.

 

 

Why? Because women in most cases cant tell the difference, they dont see the vibes. They get confused/played pretty often. And the Good girls are so unexperienced with dealing with guys they are totally lost. For them you are either Dick or (too) Nice or Joe (they know for 10 years). Experienced, usually older women - who lack insecurities and doubts about themselves and guys - can spot GGMan in 100mile radius.

When you make a move...you are NO LONGER one of her "girlfriends." Whereas the nice wimp is STILL a chump because he never makes a move.

 

So you really dont have to bother with giving girls intellectual knowledge. It wont make a difference. For you - dont get surprised when you do all the stuff from your "soul-manual" and end up "unappreciated".

I don't say this because I'm just saying this. I say this because I was both people.

 

When you are a nice WIMp....

 

All who chose that direction sold their souls and their dreams for a pretty face. They gave it all up for someone who would eventually lose respect for them and take away their reason for living once they left. Most of these chumps couldn't handle it and gave up on themselves,

 

And when you are a JERK...

 

Using this perspective to seduce only deepens your misleading beliefs. Assh0les will definitely get laid, but you won't find a quality woman among the bunch! They will all be psycho nut-cases, mental midgets or just plain wh0res. And so the cycle continues, until one day the guy realizes he is not happy, and spite begins to set in as a dark shadow on his blackened heart. He will never admit it in a million years, but he HATES women as much as he lusts for them! It is a toxic mix of desire and contempt which paves the way to the Dark Side.

 

Eventually, our former "nice guy" begins to adopt a completely different mindset:

 

• Successful Relationships are a myth

• Women lack integrity and honor

• Women are essentially worthless for everything except sex

• Having any kind of deep emotions for a woman is a sign of weakness

• Favors, compliments and tokens of appreciation is a sign of weakness

 

And guess what? All these beliefs just snowball into a giant wad of negativity which further taint his interactions with women. Don't worry though, his real lesson will come soon enough

 

 

Bottom line - Cold approach will only work when you behave like total Dick and the girl has need for a dick.

Now you're talking about something entirely different. Cold approaches has nothing to with this discussion..that's for another thread. Edited April 5, 2008 by FormerNiceGuy

[whichwayisup]

Why is this so hard for you to understand? The genuinely good MAN is NOT a pushover. He's a MAN..a leader...but he's a GOOD man.

 

This is very true. Noone likes a pushover, PERIOD. Doesn't matter if it's male or female, someone who is a pushover gets taken advantage of.

[amerikajin]

I think good guys and jerks fall on different points of a continuum. Few people I know are truly 100 percent nice all the time, and few people I knew are 100 percent schmucks all the time either. What we refer to as "jerks" and "nice guys" generally is what we see most of the time.

 

I consider myself to be a pretty nice guy, but I also know that I wrestle with insecurities. I think that we all have insecurities but some people just deal with them better than others. Some people are satisfied with who they are, with their lives and the people in them. Some people are focused, driven and know exactly what they want out of their lives -- these are the people who are more likely to make good companions. That is not to say that the people who struggle in this department are necessarily bad people; in fact they might often seem like perfectly nice people on the outside. But their own inability to make their lives less complicated means that anyone who gets involved in their lives are going to have to deal with the aftermath. If someone isn't secure enough to accept validation from one partner, if someone needs constant reassurance, they're probably not going to offer the kind of stability that people need in a long-term relationship.

[TheFonz]

No.

 

Ha ha......I feel like I'm battling two sides. I'm battling you and Fonz by telling you that you don't need to be an "jerk" with women.

 

and I'm battling some chumps here..by telling them, "NO! Don't buy 20 dozen flowers for that girl you don't even know! Stop being a chump!"

 

Well when you're wrong you're wrong. There's more than one way to be wrong .

 

I'll explain...

 

You don't know me or my past.

 

Again, you're confusing the "nice wimp" from the "nice MAN".

 

I hate to use movie analogies..but since YOU have used one, I'll use one too.

 

Ever seen the movie, "Gladiator"?

 

The main character of that movie is a bad-azz. You wouldn't want to try to pick a fight with him...BUT...he's a good guy. He's a leader. He's a fighter. He's a warrior. He has ambition. He is confident, self-secure, powerful, and he has sheer willpower and he takes action.

 

But..he's a genuinely good guy...

 

He was a man of VIRTUE.

 

Is he a guy that lets women step on him? Is he the kind of guy that abuses women? Is he the kind of guy that "plays" with women?

 

Why is this so hard for you to understand? The genuinely good MAN is NOT a pushover. He's a MAN..a leader...but he's a GOOD man.

 

But that was a movie. It was just as imagined as your theoreticl GenuineGood guy is. In the real world no guys are really like that and be like that wouldn't really get you women.

 

 

When you make a move...you are NO LONGER one of her "girlfriends." Whereas the nice wimp is STILL a chump because he never makes a move.

 

I don't say this because I'm just saying this. I say this because I was both people.

 

You're missing me and Daniel's point. Making a move doesn't quaranteee attraction. She can easily rebuff your move and make out like you're a "creepy" nice guy.

 

 

 

 

Now you're talking about something entirely different. Cold approaches has nothing to with this discussion..that's for another thread.

 

Why doesn't cold approaches have everything to do with this discussion? I believe a woman really has decided whether or not she's into a guy within the first 5 mins of meeting him. Attraction happens fast or it doesn't happen at all.

[FormerNiceGuy]

Fonz..

 

I guess you didn't read this. I'll put it in here again.

 

Using this perspective to seduce only deepens your misleading beliefs. Assh0les will definitely get laid, but you won't find a quality woman among the bunch! They will all be psycho nut-cases, mental midgets or just plain wh0res. And so the cycle continues, until one day the guy realizes he is not happy, and spite begins to set in as a dark shadow on his blackened heart. He will never admit it in a million years, but he HATES women as much as he lusts for them! It is a toxic mix of desire and contempt which paves the way to the Dark Side.

 

Eventually, our former "nice guy" begins to adopt a completely different mindset:

 

• Successful Relationships are a myth

• Women lack integrity and honor

• Women are essentially worthless for everything except sex

• Having any kind of deep emotions for a woman is a sign of weakness

• Favors, compliments and tokens of appreciation is a sign of weakness

 

And guess what? All these beliefs just snowball into a giant wad of negativity which further taint his interactions with women. Don't worry though, his real lesson will come soon enough

[underpants]

In my opinion.

 

The sterotypical "nice guy" and the sterotypical "jerk/player" come from a similiar place of weakness. The key word being weak.

 

The nice guy and the jerk are both easily manipulated by others, because they both validate outside of themselves and not from their core.

 

Honestly, I believe them both more likely to cheat or to be easily duped and used by others more skilled at gaming them.

 

Do all people have insecurities and weak areas. Sure, but the key is how they handle that. What do they deem okay behaviors and actions to attain and pursue their wants? What are deemed unacceptable? Is there a double standard or something they seek to share muturally with another?

 

This is the 'game' I guess, finding out about each other and deciding what is acceptable and what is not. That works both ways.

 

Unfortunately there are those (both genders) that deceive or present a false front to attain or externally validate. This is disingenuine, and most likely the cause of many heartbreaks and overall disappointment in relationships. If you can't even be happy with yourself, how on Earth are you going to be happy with someone else?

 

Maybe it does take a few dealings with this sort to be able to better recognize it early and walk away? That in itself is also unfortunate.

 

...and yes, I would so do the character from which Gladiator was created for.

[Trialbyfire]

FormerNiceGuy seems to have the makings for someone who will sooner or later, find a healthy relationship. Good luck to the other two...

[DanielMadr]

A woman decides within the first minute. First impressions count.

 

No.

 

Ha ha......I feel like I'm battling two sides. I'm battling you and Fonz by telling you that you don't need to be an "jerk" with women.

 

and I'm battling some chumps here..by telling them, "NO! Don't buy 20 dozen flowers for that girl you don't even know! Stop being a chump!"

 

I'll explain...

 

You don't know me or my past.

 

Again, you're confusing the "nice wimp" from the "nice MAN".

 

I hate to use movie analogies..but since YOU have used one, I'll use one too.

 

Ever seen the movie, "Gladiator"?

 

The main character of that movie is a bad-azz. You wouldn't want to try to pick a fight with him...BUT...he's a good guy. He's a leader. He's a fighter. He's a warrior. He has ambition. He is confident, self-secure, powerful, and he has sheer willpower and he takes action.

 

But..he's a genuinely good guy...

 

He was a man of VIRTUE.

 

Is he a guy that lets women step on him? Is he the kind of guy that abuses women? Is he the kind of guy that "plays" with women?

 

Why is this so hard for you to understand? The genuinely good MAN is NOT a pushover. He's a MAN..a leader...but he's a GOOD man.

 

 

When you make a move...you are NO LONGER one of her "girlfriends." Whereas the nice wimp is STILL a chump because he never makes a move.

 

I don't say this because I'm just saying this. I say this because I was both people.

 

When you are a nice WIMp....

 

 

And when you are a JERK...

 

 

 

Now you're talking about something entirely different. Cold approaches has nothing to with this discussion..that's for another thread.

 

It is not B&W. Either Jerk, Wimp or Genuine Good Guy. All Im telling you that GGG must be far more to the Jerk impression than to the Wimp impression in order to attract a stranger woman.

 

A diagram:

 

Wimp--nice guy----------center-----------Gladiator----Jerk

 

You say you have to be the Center. And Im teeling you thats reserved for Budhist Monks or Dads.

[DanielMadr]

FormerNiceGuy seems to have the makings for someone who will sooner or later, find a healthy relationship. Good luck to the other two...

 

I bet that you dream of FMG for your daughter and FonZ for you, heh. And me for kicking some terrorists' azzes. Right? On my way.