What is “normal”? First topic - Custody

[EmotionallyYours]

OK, I’m moving over to the separation and divorce forum. This is the first post of a few topics that I would like to share with you. I’m hoping for advice and experience that others have had with this sort of thing. Short re-cap of the situation:

 

1)Unhappy in marriage. Compatibility issues, lack of communication etc. I had an EA that turned PA, spilled my guts and moved out. OK, so much more to it, but the bottom line is that I am the “guilty” party. If you’re into drama… read the book over in infidelity…lol. I am the queen of REALLY long posts. I have a lot to express and get out I guess.

2)Moved out Thanksgiving weekend into my own place. Started mediation in January and are now having our lawyers go over what we hope (I’m starting to have doubts) is the final Marital Separation Agreement (MSA).

3)Husband has a lot of control issues and is very conservative when it comes to the kids. Not unbelievably so, but they will definitely be the last ones to be allowed to do almost anything if I give him free reign. I am not overly permissive, but more so than he is. I want a happy medium.

 

When everything happened and I was really not in my right mind and pretty much paralyzed by guilt, I verbally agreed to a heck of a lot of stuff. My mother turned against me and told me in a custody battle she would testify against me in a trial. It was really bad. *Please note, however, that I am not one of those trashy, crappy moms who never took care of her kids. I was not your typical “housewife” type either. I think I was always really involved in my kids stuff, but always had my own stuff going on too.*

 

I will admit in the last 6 months at home, that I was not spending the time like I used to and would use any excuse I could to get out of the house and away from stbx. When I spent the time with the kids, it would be “out” and without him so I could just have “my time” with them. A big issue with me and stbx is that we have different ways of parenting and spending time with them. When all four of us were together… it was so tense and I was always on edge. He treated me like the third kid. He would disagree, but that is exactly how it felt to me.

 

I go over to stbx’s house every morning (I come he goes) to get the kids ready for school. I do their hair, help with contact lenses, make breakfast and give them some lovin...lol… to their chagrin on the way to bus stop. Right now, I get the kids weekends (Friday 6:00 – Sunday 4:00). Sometimes they stay later if they don’t have church school that evening or stay overnight if I ask stbx nice enough. They come over for dinner/hanging out one weeknight (6-9). Once a month the H gets them for the weekend and I get them more the weekdays before and/or after. He seems to be pretty good about giving me extra time here and there when I need it.

 

Well, since my family was so against me and everything seemed insurmountable after what I had done, I agreed to being the “weekend” parent and was just going to take what I could get. Now, however, I feel the pressure of people who are judging this arrangement and questioning why I would allow my stbx have the “primary” residence and “primary” custody. Stbx started spending more time with my family and they finally understand why I wasn’t happy with him and see how controlling he is. They are kind of pressuring me to try for more of a “full custody”. (Their words are that under his influence they will grow up to be neurotic…lol. I disagree. He is a good father, but does have control issues and an anger management problem at times. I balance him out with the upbringing.)

 

The problem is that I like the arrangement. In fact, I feel like I am getting so much more quality time with them than I ever have. In fact, I feel guilty because I have so much more free and fun time with them than stbx. I guess that’s how it was when we were married too since he is more the disciplinarian and structured person. The kids and I are SO much better together now. So much more interaction is present, no stress and just overall enjoying of each other. It really is like night and day. We get along like when we were “out” without my stbx, but now I have a nice comfy house to be in instead of always being pressured to find other stuff to do. We CAN just hang out and relax.

 

 

Should I want to have more of the “structured” time with them? Should I push for doing a week with me, week with him? I don't know how I feel about it?

 

 

Anyone have any input? What have your experiences been? Also please stay on the custody topic. Any condemnation or judgments... take it to the infidelity thread. This is only about the kids and seeing their Mom (who is a good one).

 

PS - Oh, and the only thing that is worrying me about the MSA is that there is a statement that we have that the other has to “approve” of any trips out of state. Stbx has caught wind that I may be taking them to NYC for a couple of days and already said that it is out of the question. I want to change that to “inform”.

[BetrayedMM]

I take it the MSA isn't final.

 

Anyway, either parent having veto power is only right. It's about the judgement of both parents, not just one. He may be more conservative, but is that bad for them? Sure, he's irrational right now, but he's choosing to err on the side of caution.(the NYC trip with 2 bipolars would scare me too!)

 

We (the stbx and I) have a similar arrangement. If you like the arrangement, screw the external pressure and stick with it.

 

As far as joint custody, kids need a HOME. Bouncing back and forth is not good for them. They must have some kind of stability in their lives. To them, their old home is home. Whatever the rules used to be, they should remain that way. Period. Remember, this is about what's best for THEM.

[EmotionallyYours]

I take it the MSA isn't final.

 

Anyway, either parent having veto power is only right. It's about the judgement of both parents, not just one. He may be more conservative, but is that bad for them? Sure, he's irrational right now, but he's choosing to err on the side of caution.(the NYC trip with 2 bipolars would scare me too!)

 

We (the stbx and I) have a similar arrangement. If you like the arrangement, screw the external pressure and stick with it.

 

As far as joint custody, kids need a HOME. Bouncing back and forth is not good for them. They must have some kind of stability in their lives. To them, their old home is home. Whatever the rules used to be, they should remain that way. Period. Remember, this is about what's best for THEM.

 

Thanks, that is my line of thought exactly. Glad you agree.

 

Now the NYC thing... we're bipolar, not children...lol. I am VERY responsible ESPECIALLY when I'm with the kids. Anyway, I was thinking of maybe taking my Mom too. Wait, that would be 3 bipolars...lol

[BetrayedMM]

Yeah, I hear ya. I just had a vision of dual mania in the big apple, a manic city to begin with. How much stimulation can they handle?

 

Sorry if I came across as patronizing. Just saying I see how he could be worried.

But, he might be spiteful that's a possibility. Also possible he doesn't want them getting attached to the OM. I think he's genuinely concerned for his kids though.

[EmotionallyYours]

Yeah, I hear ya. I just had a vision of dual mania in the big apple, a manic city to begin with. How much stimulation can they handle?

 

Sorry if I came across as patronizing. Just saying I see how he could be worried.

But, he might be spiteful that's a possibility. Also possible he doesn't want them getting attached to the OM. I think he's genuinely concerned for his kids though.

 

I think it is concern and of course he is afraid of OM stealing away kid just like he did me I guess. That is not an issue though. His attitude towards my kids are appropriate and vice versa. They have no ideas that he would be a second father or anything. They will always be Daddy's little girls.

 

However, I'm not going to have every vacation vetoed. It will drive me nuts. I'll probably just back off on this one and find something else. Branson, MO? Lots of shows... safe environment. We'll see. Plus, it will be up to the kids whether or not to invite him. They have met him once since this happened (last night in fact)... and it was just a friendly game of bowling / eating burgers. We all interacted just fine with a couple of awkward moments (guy in next lane saying how great it is to see families out together and what great parents we are). Oh GOD. The kids treated him exactly as they did when we were just friends. Older one said, they like him, but they like their Daddy better. Good healthy reaction?

[BetrayedMM]

Yep. Healthy reaction. Now, if only your stbx knew that. I'm sure he doesn't want to be replaced as their father. Who could blame him for that? Part of his hatred of the OM I'm sure is he sees him as an unsuitable father figure, bad for the kids. I don't know if he's right or not, but I can understand how he'd reach that conclusion.

 

OT, but I'm amazed at your ability to have empathy. For some reason, that often seems to be a problem for bipolars.

[EmotionallyYours]

Yep. Healthy reaction. Now, if only your stbx knew that. I'm sure he doesn't want to be replaced as their father. Who could blame him for that? Part of his hatred of the OM I'm sure is he sees him as an unsuitable father figure, bad for the kids. I don't know if he's right or not, but I can understand how he'd reach that conclusion.

 

OT, but I'm amazed at your ability to have empathy. For some reason, that often seems to be a problem for bipolars.

 

I'm glad you agree that was healthy. I was pretty proud of her.

 

Empathy is a problem for my bf. It really irritates me that he doesn't have empathy for my stbx. I know a lot of it is his fear of him, but sheesh... give the man a break after everything I've put him through. He has lot of empathy and sympathy for the people in his life he cares about. But if you aren't one of them... nada... nothing... zip. One of the things I'm "watching" in our relationship. Is this something I can accept? I have too much of it if anything... lol. A bi-polar aberration?

[BetrayedMM]

Sorry bout the t/j, but it's good that you're keeping an eye on that.

[sumdude]

Yep. Healthy reaction. Now, if only your stbx knew that. I'm sure he doesn't want to be replaced as their father. Who could blame him for that? Part of his hatred of the OM I'm sure is he sees him as an unsuitable father figure, bad for the kids. I don't know if he's right or not, but I can understand how he'd reach that conclusion.

 

 

Agreed... right now your stbx can only see your bf as a bad seed who was willing to cross the moral boundaries of a marriage .. mind you I'm no one's judge, just know how he might feel. As much as he may blame you for the affair he's still in love with you at some level so he has to believe that you were somehow turned from him by someone else.. That you were taken advantage of when vulnerable and/or needy. He thinks your bf may be pulling your strings... Rational, factual or not... it's likely how he sees it and it's probably not going to change anytime soon no matter what you say to him.

 

..of course I could be wrong... just speaking from my own experience.

[Nomad1]

Well it all started a couple of weeks ago. Wife moved out after 6 months separation. Background: She had an EA which turned into PA with the most unsuitable person you can imagine. OM was in jail while she was visiting him for several months as part of voluntary work she did. He was due to be deported to the middle East where he is from. She got him lawyers etc and managed to get him out on bail. He's been out for a few weeks now and she has been seeing him. Anyway, house has been on the market for sale. I filed for divorce. STXW managed to get a house elsewhere and has insisted on 50/50 share of custody. Children: 3 boys 13, 15 & 16. STXW has problems controlling them: big lads. No question of OM ever going into the house or any OM for that matter. Boys made it clear to their mom that that is not something they would tolerate. I had them for the first week under this arrangement. It has been a joy, but so much work involved. I am concerned about the lack of stability having two separate homes etc. Boys want to feel free at times to move between the two houses rather than rigid week by week at each house. I agree, but STXW insists that all 3 of them should stay in one house at a time. She also wants the two dogs to be shared that way. On one hand I am happy with the arrangement, but on the other I feel that the boys should have a choice. Like today the older one wanted to stay with me and it broke my heart to tell him that he had to go to his mom's. I am torn between wanting my own independence and my space and my obligation/responsibilities to the children. I don't know if any of the above makes any sense!

 

Nomad1

[EmotionallyYours]

Well it all started a couple of weeks ago. Wife moved out after 6 months separation. Background: She had an EA which turned into PA with the most unsuitable person you can imagine. OM was in jail while she was visiting him for several months as part of voluntary work she did. He was due to be deported to the middle East where he is from. She got him lawyers etc and managed to get him out on bail. He's been out for a few weeks now and she has been seeing him. Anyway, house has been on the market for sale. I filed for divorce. STXW managed to get a house elsewhere and has insisted on 50/50 share of custody. Children: 3 boys 13, 15 & 16. STXW has problems controlling them: big lads. No question of OM ever going into the house or any OM for that matter. Boys made it clear to their mom that that is not something they would tolerate. I had them for the first week under this arrangement. It has been a joy, but so much work involved. I am concerned about the lack of stability having two separate homes etc. Boys want to feel free at times to move between the two houses rather than rigid week by week at each house. I agree, but STXW insists that all 3 of them should stay in one house at a time. She also wants the two dogs to be shared that way. On one hand I am happy with the arrangement, but on the other I feel that the boys should have a choice. Like today the older one wanted to stay with me and it broke my heart to tell him that he had to go to his mom's. I am torn between wanting my own independence and my space and my obligation/responsibilities to the children. I don't know if any of the above makes any sense!

 

Nomad1

 

Wow Nomad. I can't believe she did all this for a man she met who was in jail. That does seem like such a bad decision. If you do want her in your children's lives though, I guess you should keep to the "regular" schedules at least at first. I'd discuss after a month or two with you wife how things are going and then talk to the boys together too so they do have some input. They should have some choice at their ages, but not too much. It's a fine line I guess. Keeping them together, however, does give you some time to yourself and you probably really need that right now.