What is “normal”? Second topic – Getting over it / reactions / setting limits

[EmotionallyYours]

OK, my second topic deals with how a Betrayed Spouse (BS… right acronym?) gets through the separation and divorce. I’d like some good discussion on how to deal with my stbx and set limits as to what is acceptable and what is not. Since he is a BS, I feel like I allow just about anything because of guilt. However, my therapist thinks he goes way too far. Here is how my stbx has reacted and is reacting:

 

During/Immediately after the “nuclear explosion”

Keeping in mind that I had been unhappy for a long time and had a lot of communication issues, this really hit my stbx like a load of bricks. I had been contemplating leaving him for about 7 years, but always pushed it off for financial, children, fear of reaction issues. I had a LOT of time to adjust and accept the fact of a separation. He was steam rolled and for this I am so sorry.

 

I think I went through with it (from EA to PA) subconsciously because it was my way out of the marriage. I knew that I couldn’t stay with him after that from guilt. With his very conservative views and tendency to be very black/white minded, I assumed that the revelation of an affair would be the end. Period. He went through a very viscous cycle of wanting excruciating details about everything in our marriage, my affair, why I didn’t love him etc… all the time. We both were running on maybe 2-3 hours of sleep. He couldn’t sleep and he was going to keep me up with him until he “understood” everything. He would seem content with answers and then the next day not accept them and start the whole cycle again. He went to the emergency room (thinking heart attack), but it was an anxiety attack. He could barely eat or sleep or function. I was the same way and had a bit of a mental breakdown. I was really close to going for in-patient therapy. I initially agreed to stay for 3 months until things settled down and see what we could do about the marriage. After 2 weeks of unbelievable stress that was starting to affect the kids and even pets too, I had to leave and did.

 

First few months after the “nuclear explosion”

Stbx was still in cycles of EXTREME emotion. I was diagnosed with bipolar and went on medication. He would sometimes feel guilt for not recognizing the signs that I was kind of mentally unbalanced. He also used this as his beacon of hope that the marriage was fine, it was my brain that was messed up. Sometimes he would be so angry and portray me as an uncaring person with zero respect for him. That I was laughing behind his back and just biding my time until I could get out of the marriage. He would ask me for “pity sex” at least a few times a week and write me very sexually explicit emails about my relationship with the OM. Any conversations that included my explanation of why I was so unhappy would go well. The next day, however, he would rage at me for trying to put the blame on him for being unhappy. He would say that it was all me and that I was just selfish and horrible. Sometimes he would actually be happy for me for finding happiness with someone else who I felt a connection with and then he would rage and put all the blame on the OM. If I didn’t hear from him via email or phone or text for more than 12-24 hours at a time, instead of feeling relief, it would be fear. I would KNOW an explosion was in the works. I was never disappointed.

 

The last month or so…

He still has moments of extreme anger at me and will occasionally go through questioning about why, how, where, etc… I think he just wants to keep going through the questions until he gets answers that he likes. I’ve stopped accommodating him on this. It really isn’t healthy for either of us. I end up a big crying blob at work every day and can’t function if I do. I think he has accepted that it is over and doesn’t want me back. He is putting all of my “bad traits” to the forefront and has the attitude that he is better of without me. I’m glad he is feeling this way. I think it is healthier and will allow him to get through things a bit better.

 

*** necessary background information***

Ooops…need some background before I move onto next part… There was a confrontation with him and the OM when I first partially confessed and my stbx threw water in my face and shattered a glass all over both of us. This was in anger and I didn’t really think it would be repeated. My OM due to past issues is VERY adverse to ANY type of violence. He is very fearful of my stbx. This was reinforced by getting phone calls, drives past his house, and emails from him sporadically (it cycles) from my stbx. Stbx really wanted to confront the OM. Not sure of all the reasons. The way my Stbx cycles through phases, it is probably for different reasons each time. Now that I think he is over me per se, he is focusing on getting an apology from the OM and having a discussion as to his expectations when he is in my kid’s lives. My OM has such a fear of him though that he won’t even have contact with him to explain why he wants to talk with him.

 

Stbx actually showed up at my place last week when he didn’t have the kids (they were with Grandma) and starts banging on the door indicating he wanted to talk with the OM. I wouldn’t let him in and my OM called the police without me knowing it. The police came, I locked OM in my place and went out to talk to police and stbx. I spoke highly of stbx and told them that he is just having trouble dealing emotionally right now and I didn’t think he was a physical threat. Not sure if defending him was the best thing to do, but I felt I owed it to him since this was the first time he tried to confront OM in person. Now I’m barraged by emails about how cowardly OM is and how he won’t own up to mistakes and how can I ever have the kids around someone of this character. OM just thinks that stbx will kill him and wants no contact period.

*** necessary background information***

 

So currently stbx still rages about the OM and goes on and on about what a horrible person he is. He has dug up a lot of half-truths, rumors and other things on him and has a very bad picture painted of him indeed. I finally got the facts that he gave my mother about my OM and they were not true. His anger at the OM is justified, but with the picture he has painted in his mind makes him so much worse.

 

Does stbx just have to work this out of his system too? What is my responsibility in setting limits? For instance, the police said that calling them was the exact right thing to do. Prevent contact between the two so no one ends up injured / arrested / etc… I got pretty mad at OM when he did it, but my friends think he should have to.

 

Should I have conversations about “us” when he tries to? Stbx is setting all the rules with the kids and I have let him because of my guilt. How do I get a backbone to stand up to him when he is clearly trying to control my time with the kids? He even goes so far as to change schedules at the last minute. I think he thinks that this will mess up any plans I may have with the OM? He interrogates me about my plans, where I am, where I am going. Usually when I'm with kids, but sometimes when I'm not with them too. He interrogates the kids every time they come home and lectures them about what is appropriate behavior or not from me when they are with me. Kind of "even though you are with your mother, my rules still apply". I agree, so no need to lecture them about it. He is putting stress on them too now.

[sumdude]

You know... it's odd to see the other side of it all... you seem so detached. Which I guess you are, you care for your stbx almost as if he's a stranger who needs help.

 

Anyhow... having felt all the emotions you stbx is feeling. I never really acted on most of them... boy did I want to confront. I wanted to have it out with the homewrecker... But my xw... ran off without warning and moved in with 'someone' who I suspect was an affair. Yet I still do not know to this day though my instinct tells me it likely is. She lied and broke trust which is the real knife in the back.

 

It's going to take a couple of years for your stbx to really move on and at least a whole year before his emotions really calm down.

 

You have to decide what the bouindaries are for you... you and you alone not the OM or anyone else.

 

That's just how it goes...

[EmotionallyYours]

You know... it's odd to see the other side of it all... you seem so detached. Which I guess you are, you care for your stbx almost as if he's a stranger who needs help.

 

Anyhow... having felt all the emotions you stbx is feeling. I never really acted on most of them... boy did I want to confront. I wanted to have it out with the homewrecker... But my xw... ran off without warning and moved in with 'someone' who I suspect was an affair. Yet I still do not know to this day though my instinct tells me it likely is. She lied and broke trust which is the real knife in the back.

 

It's going to take a couple of years for your stbx to really move on and at least a whole year before his emotions really calm down.

 

You have to decide what the bouindaries are for you... you and you alone not the OM or anyone else.

 

That's just how it goes...

 

It's funny. I'm really not detached. Truly. I'm just kind of "dried up" right now. I love him as the father of my children and as a friend to some degree. I'm really not at my best with him though. I guess its not really like stranger who needs help. Its like a friend that needs help. I've had so many days / weeks of crying, I looked like "elephant woman" from swelled up face. It's just that I'm trying to be analytical on my posts rather than emotional. I'm coming to terms with my guilt over what I did and feeling like I don't deserve to get the OM. I just feel like it is some kind of "reward" for my horrible behavior that I don't deserve. I feel guilty for being happy if that makes sense. Stbx very much acts on all of his emotions on a daily basis. He isn't being honest with his therapist... that's for sure. When I did go in with him, it came as a total shock to her about the continued attempted contact with OM and the continuance of daily emotional emails. Thanks for the perspective from the other side.

[BetrayedMM]

Wow, it would be easier to give your stbx advice, like stay away from the OM.

 

But, first, when you talk to him, do so only about the kids and nothing more, except to remind him that there is no "US". Don't go telling him you have feelings or moments of doubt about the path you've chosen, even if or when it's true. Avoid all contact with him as much as possible.

 

To be honest, this would be alot easier for him if he hated you. I know you don't want that, but it would help him let go.

 

I guess I don't have to tell you that's what's wrong with him- he can't let go of you. He was and still is deeply in love with you whether you felt it or not. He just can't seem to let go while he still loves you. He can't get closure in his current condition. Somehow that love must die or fade for him to feel closure.

 

If this is about helping him through this, you are the person least likely to be able to do so. Someone else is going to have to do that. It's not your job to determine who or find that help for him.

 

As far as setting boundaries, yes, you must. Stick to your guns with whatever boundaries you settle on.

 

Allow him to feel and think whatever he wants about the OM, don't try to defend his reputation or prove to your stbx that he's a good guy, that's pointless and humiliating.

 

If you possibly can, physical distance will help also.

 

Guilt? I don't know what to tell you about that. You are your own judge, punish yourself however you see fit. Karma will take care of that in the end anyway. Good luck with that, you seem like a good person at heart.

[EmotionallyYours]

Wow, it would be easier to give your stbx advice, like stay away from the OM.

 

But, first, when you talk to him, do so only about the kids and nothing more, except to remind him that there is no "US". Don't go telling him you have feelings or moments of doubt about the path you've chosen, even if or when it's true. Avoid all contact with him as much as possible.

 

To be honest, this would be alot easier for him if he hated you. I know you don't want that, but it would help him let go.

 

I guess I don't have to tell you that's what's wrong with him- he can't let go of you. He was and still is deeply in love with you whether you felt it or not. He just can't seem to let go while he still loves you. He can't get closure in his current condition. Somehow that love must die or fade for him to feel closure.

 

If this is about helping him through this, you are the person least likely to be able to do so. Someone else is going to have to do that. It's not your job to determine who or find that help for him.

 

As far as setting boundaries, yes, you must. Stick to your guns with whatever boundaries you settle on.

 

Allow him to feel and think whatever he wants about the OM, don't try to defend his reputation or prove to your stbx that he's a good guy, that's pointless and humiliating.

 

If you possibly can, physical distance will help also.

 

Guilt? I don't know what to tell you about that. You are your own judge, punish yourself however you see fit. Karma will take care of that in the end anyway. Good luck with that, you seem like a good person at heart.

 

I think he is getting there on the hating me part... finally. I agree that it is the healthier reaction. I'm just worried that he is focusing all of his energies from his relationship to me over obsessing over possible relationship(s) between the kids and the bf (formerly known as OM). He sees bf calling the police and refusing to talk to him as making him out to be crazy and putting the blame on him for some reason? I told him that it is just because bf does not want a confrontation.

 

Also, when I avoid as much contact as possible it does agitate him and he really goes heavy on the email communications. I just tell him that I'm not angry or anything like that with him (as he believes). I just think the less contact (unless regarding the girls) the better for the emotional reasons and moving on.

 

He is also dealing with this in another startling way. Spending a LOT of money. I still have access to one CC that I had paid off in both names... it is up to $9K since December when I zeroed it out. Traveling, eating out, new appliances. I know its not my job to worry about this stuff, but he has a responsibility to be financially stable for the kids. I didn't bring it up though. I just worry.

[datingmum]

Hi there. I appreciate your perspective as the person who walked out. I have been there. But I never went there while in the marriage. The urge to get involved with someone was what drove me to get out. I think that when you commit and infidelity, you almost sign yourself up to all of this craziness and rage. It is morally defunct, you yourself admit this I'm sure.

 

 

But I understand. Hey, you really do sound very very detached and the OM sounds a bit of a twit to be honest. Do you feel that perhaps you are numb from the revelation of it all/stress of your husband (stbx is too blase, isn't it?) and the few weeks of no sleep/craziness that went on? You owed him that, you know it in your heart, right? At the very least. You owed it to him not to cheat, really, but it's happened. Now I know you cheated because there were problems and it's always 50/50, but let's face it, as a wife your DUTY is to inform your partner of the need to change. If the spouse chooses not to/ can't /refuses to change, then it is time to seperate and pursue other relationships. not before. But you know this. Please understand, I am not trying to berate you, I left a man that was my best friend and took care of me for 15 years! But I felt that because of his love and because of our children, I could not cheat, ever. Not even a kiss. And it wasn't easy- this was during the most sexually active period of anyone's life, I'm attractive and get hit on alot, and most of my friends were men!

 

Again, the OM did a stupid and ridiculous thing and doesn not sound like he is going to be the man that you want to carry on with in future IMO. Just that one stupid, cruel act was enough to convince me. You did a very good thing going out there and defending your husband. You really did and I'm glad you did.

 

Do you think that if you spent a few weeks in self-imposed isolation, sleeping, eating, feeling ok, even a week, hell a few days!, that you might find it in you to see your husband in a therapy context (and don't be cheap here, shop around) and explore the issues and see where it leads? If there was a spark of love there before, it CAN be re-ignited. You need to fully understand your needs and how they can be adequately met (i.e what are they? are they reasonable? should/could/would my husband meet them - and you have to ask to get the answer). I don't think you'll walk away from this 'clean' unless you do....

 

 

Good luck! Again, I'd like to stress, I am not berating you. I understand why this stuff happens, it happens to lots of people and they get back together. I don't really know a single marriage where infidelity hasn't played a role, minor or major. But, please value the ability to 'walk away clean'. Otherwise it will really kill you later.

[EmotionallyYours]

Hi there. I appreciate your perspective as the person who walked out. I have been there. But I never went there while in the marriage. The urge to get involved with someone was what drove me to get out. I think that when you commit and infidelity, you almost sign yourself up to all of this craziness and rage. It is morally defunct, you yourself admit this I'm sure.

 

OK, I'm taking the reconciliation part out of the picture. I really don't want him back. I'm so much happier with me and my kids and I don't want to go back to that. And I did do the isolation thing for a few weeks... I just felt relief that I finally left. OK... I'm not going down that path.

 

I do know bf sounds like a twit. He can be at times. We had our first "real" fight over this. However, he truly believes that their will be a full-out physical confrontation because of my stbx anger issues. He physically lashes out. Never on people, but on things a lot (well once on me... but just physically keeping me from leaving, not hitting). BF explained that he could not be sure that my stbx would not be out there when he left and he truly thinks that he will physically confront him. Calling the police ensured he could leave safely without a physical fight. Plus... he finally confided in me that he was basically beaten to a pulp in a physical confrontation when he was younger and was a bit traumatized by it. He has a serious phobia of physical confrontations now. It's funny because he is so huge. The cowardly lion...

 

Back to the point, if my OM/bf dropped out of my life today I know I would not go back to my stbx. I just can't ever go through that stress again. Never.

[datingmum]

ok. I'm sorry to hear that. Can I tell you that a few years after my divorce, when I was the same - grieved it all before it ended, was fine, even happy with my decision when I left etc. - i deeply regretted getting out, cried with guilt etc? I just want you to know the truth of what may come. It's hard.

 

Maybe I was a bit harsh on your boyfriend. But he must know that in future, YOU ARE IN CHARGE when it comes to all matters related to your husband and children and if he ever does something maverick like that again, you'll serve walking papers.

 

I feel bad for guys that have been beaten up badly though, guys are not supposed to be 'weak' or feel scared. I'm sorry that happened to him. But not so sorry I think that he can get away with doing that kind of sh*t!

[EmotionallyYours]

ok. I'm sorry to hear that. Can I tell you that a few years after my divorce, when I was the same - grieved it all before it ended, was fine, even happy with my decision when I left etc. - i deeply regretted getting out, cried with guilt etc? I just want you to know the truth of what may come. It's hard.

 

Maybe I was a bit harsh on your boyfriend. But he must know that in future, YOU ARE IN CHARGE when it comes to all matters related to your husband and children and if he ever does something maverick like that again, you'll serve walking papers.

 

I feel bad for guys that have been beaten up badly though, guys are not supposed to be 'weak' or feel scared. I'm sorry that happened to him. But not so sorry I think that he can get away with doing that kind of sh*t!

 

Yes I am in charge. No battle from him on that unless he feels physically threatened (which he feels much too easily...sheesh). We are working on "rules" that will help us avoid that situation again. I am evaluating him every day and deciding on what I can put up with and what I can't. It will take so much more time to see. He also knows that "us" forever, married... happily ever after is not a given. We have to prove ourselves to each other. Our relationship has undergone a real metamorphosis from the initial attraction, EA to PA, aftermath. We are very different people than what we were actually first attracted to. So far, that has been a good thing and a very pleasant surprise. I am keeping my eyes wide open though. Even though I am in honeymoon phase romantically much of the time, my kids snap me right OUT of that and put me in "analytical, evaluation" mode.

[BetrayedMM]

I think he is getting there on the hating me part... finally. I agree that it is the healthier reaction. I'm just worried that he is focusing all of his energies from his relationship to me over obsessing over possible relationship(s) between the kids and the bf (formerly known as OM). He sees bf calling the police and refusing to talk to him as making him out to be crazy and putting the blame on him for some reason? I told him that it is just because bf does not want a confrontation.

 

Also, when I avoid as much contact as possible it does agitate him and he really goes heavy on the email communications. I just tell him that I'm not angry or anything like that with him (as he believes). I just think the less contact (unless regarding the girls) the better for the emotional reasons and moving on.

 

He is also dealing with this in another startling way. Spending a LOT of money. I still have access to one CC that I had paid off in both names... it is up to $9K since December when I zeroed it out. Traveling, eating out, new appliances. I know its not my job to worry about this stuff, but he has a responsibility to be financially stable for the kids. I didn't bring it up though. I just worry.

 

He's spending money because he now feels it's not important. Let him. He needs to treat himself to some nice things for the sake of his own self esteem, because he's worth it. I did that too. It helped. A little. He'll stop eventually.

[EmotionallyYours]

He's spending money because he now feels it's not important. Let him. He needs to treat himself to some nice things for the sake of his own self esteem, because he's worth it. I did that too. It helped. A little. He'll stop eventually.

I'm glad I didn't say anything.