Defending the OW with babies

[child_of_isis]

She is saying this because this is what he has told her. Just like you, she believes his lies. Because she loves him & the lies are easier to deal with than the truth.

 

Maybe "okay" wasn't the right word...maybe understanding would have been a better one.

 

You understand why you believed him, but you don't understand why she does.

 

An attack is a perception. I have seen a very few 'attacks' on LS. Some people are more blunt than others. After a while you get to know their posting style. You haven't been on LS long enough to be making judgement calls.

 

I just get frustrated sometimes when she sends me e-mails blaming only me for her husbands lying and cheating. I have tried to tell her that he made choices, just as I did. She has told me that I lured him. She blames me for all of it. I know she has a right to blame me for a lot of her issues, but if she refuses to blame him, she will never be able "fix" their relationship (or fix herself for that matter). I obviously do not think it is okay for me to believe him considering I compare it to a drug addiction.

 

As far as the actual reason for this post, read it. I never said that people saying "harsh" things wasn't beneficial. I was simply making the point that "attacks" do not work. Even Rain (who I am sure you have heard from before), finally understood that his comments were not getting anywhere because when people feel that they are being attacked they do not care about what you have to say. I realize that "harsh" love here on LS actually challenges peoples thinking.

[mistresswchildren]

Harsh: (but still productive) You have really made a mess of this situation. You need to stop contacting him. What you did was moralistically wrong, and you should be ashamed. Think about it, how would you feel if you were is W?

 

Attack: You are an immoral slut that seems to be unable to stop spreading your legs. If you could get off your back once in a while, it would help everyone involved.

 

Now, do you see the difference. I have seen comments like this before on this forum. Now, every one is entitled to their opinion, but if they want their opinion to be valued, then they need to state their opinion in a constructive manner. I hope you understand what I am saying.

[child_of_isis]

Yeah, I got you. While I don't advocate using the term "slut", I think they pretty much said the same thing.

 

But I see now where you are coming from. But you can't let this bother you. If you are constantly allow this to bother you, then all you will be accomplishing is fighting with the posters.

[TheRain]

Harsh: (but still productive) You have really made a mess of this situation. You need to stop contacting him. What you did was moralistically wrong, and you should be ashamed. Think about it, how would you feel if you were is W?

 

Attack: You are an immoral slut that seems to be unable to stop spreading your legs. If you could get off your back once in a while, it would help everyone involved.

 

Now, do you see the difference. I have seen comments like this before on this forum. Now, every one is entitled to their opinion, but if they want their opinion to be valued, then they need to state their opinion in a constructive manner. I hope you understand what I am saying.

 

I believe I did something in between those two.

[nadiaj2727]

If the above was written for me, I would have to say that none of it made sense. Mistresswchildren will tell you why.

 

The reason I used "loose woman" is because I am not allow to use certain words her because it's offensive, but at the same time, I want to be honest and tell the truth.

 

TheRain,

 

You can be honest and share with us what you think the truth is without being offensive.

 

The problem is that if someone doesn't agree with you or your way of life, you call them names or act like you're always right. That's not going to get you very far with trying to share your viewpoint.

 

Just my two cents.

[TheRain]

TheRain,

 

You can be honest and share with us what you think the truth is without being offensive.

 

The problem is that if someone doesn't agree with you or your way of life, you call them names or act like you're always right. That's not going to get you very far with trying to share your viewpoint.

 

Just my two cents.

 

Nadiaj2727, admit it, my comments and opinions intrigue you. That’s why you pay close attention to my posts. Another reason is that I am one of the few here who is as educated and intelligent as you are. Deep down, you share virtually all of my values, but because what you have done, you’re denying your true value and thus my point of view.

[nadiaj2727]

Most of them are. Not men in general, just those who engage in A's.

 

Usually when OW's first come into LS their heads are so full of MM's lies, it takes 2 by 4's to knock the truth into them.

 

I lived with a professional liar for 13 years. When we split, I I found myself in the middle of a crashing false reality.

 

When it was all said and done, everything was his fault. I was the victim. But I came to recognize the role that I played in all of it. And took responsibility.

 

Then my healing began.

 

Wow, good for you COI. I don't understand why some women like to play the victim. No matter how bad the man they're with treats them or their children, they play a role in their suffering by continuing to stay with the man rather than kick him to the curb.

 

I hear so many excuses -- money, love, children, material ties (hmmm in this sense they sound like the excuses MM give OW for not leaving W yet LOL)... but when it's all said and done, NO ONE should be dependent on anyone else for their own well-being. If it's a bad situation, get out, and I mean that for MM who claim to be so unhappily married and for OW who unhappily stay with MM. (As well as for BS whose H continue to lie to them about the A and any person being mistreated by their partner or getting anything less than they deserve in a relationship). Otherwise your complaints start to sound like endless drivel to those of us on the outside who recognize that you yourself are to blame for allowing yourself to stay in this situation.

 

You sound very strong and smart COI. Good for you for recognizing your role in your ex's mistreatment of you and getting out.

[child_of_isis]

I think for a lot of women it is about fear....like, oh my god, I can't do this alone...but when they get 'alone' they see that it is soooo much easier than having him around.

 

The emotional baggage & crap they take with them, is like losing a 100 pounds. With their stupid crap gone, one finds that they actually have the energy, the well being & the peace of mind needed to accomplish things.

[nadiaj2727]

Nadiaj2727, admit it, my comments and opinions intrigue you. That’s why you pay close attention to my posts. Another reason is that I am one of the few here who is as educated and intelligent as you are. Deep down, you share virtually all of my values, but because what you have done, you’re denying your true value and thus my point of view.

 

TheRain,

 

If you haven't noticed, I pay close attention to everyone's posts -- don't think you're so special. Everyone's story and posts intrigue me, that's why I'm addicted to LS LOL.

 

I don't agree at all that you are one of the few here who is as educated and intelligent as me. That statement shows how shallow and arrogant you can come off and why you pi** off a lot of people here, including me. MOST people on this forum are very intelligent and I have not gone around giving people IQ tests so I can't say which ones are the most intelligent or even how to measure or define intelligence. Many people here are very educated, some in different ways -- formal education is not all that counts. MimiMe is one of the most educated people I read on here -- from a hard knocks school of life point of view. And no offense TheRain but you don't sound educated about real life at all, you act like everyone should walk around in your perfect bubble. You have no understanding for everyone else's struggles and mistakes in life. To me, that is not educated, sorry. And all I know is that you are definitely one of the most arrogant people on this forum, a trait that I do not find intriguing at all, just downright unattractive.

 

Sorry to sound harsh. I'm not sure how much of your post was written in jest and I'm not trying to fight with you, just respond honestly to what you said to me. Since you have no problem giving "harsh" comments to others, I have no problem telling you my harsh opinion about you. But I would never resort to name-calling like you do. (Well... rarely... I must say there have been a few people on here that make me want to return to kindergarden and start shouting names at them LOL).

 

Lastly, you're right that I share most of your values. That doesn't mean I don't understand what leads people to make mistakes and bad decisions, as I have done. I am not here to judge other people but to try to offer help and hope to those who are where I was once, by sharing my own experiences and beliefs. I have been called a hyprocrite and a fake and a holier-than-thou person and someone who acts like an ex-smoker or a born again Christian etc. for that but I don't care, it is where I'm at right now and I would rather try to help people than judge them or stay silent about issues and decisions that I feel I know a lot about.

 

Anyway. Among my values are empathy, compassion and tolerance. That seems to be the primary difference between you and me, TheRain. I do hope you can learn these values one day and I see that you have tempered the formerly nasty tone of your posts to make them a little less nasty... so perhaps you are getting there slowly but surely.

Edited April 7, 2008 by nadiaj2727

[nadiaj2727]

I think for a lot of women it is about fear....like, oh my god, I can't do this alone...but when they get 'alone' they see that it is soooo much easier than having him around.

 

The emotional baggage & crap they take with them, is like losing a 100 pounds. With their stupid crap gone, one finds that they actually have the energy, the well being & the peace of mind needed to accomplish things.

 

I agree and I think that sometimes it takes a long time to come to the point of realizing that they want and need to accomplish these things, and how they can actually go about doing it (just like with losing weight!)

[Owl]

I just wanted to take a moment and throw my opinion into the mix.

 

I've been one of the strongest advocates of the OW walking away from the MM...ESPECIALLY when they're pregnant with MM's child.

 

And my reasoning is simple...its got nothing to do with the OW...it has EVERYTHING to do with the child.

 

A MM who cheats with OW is NOT the kind of man that a woman should want to be a part of raising the OW's child. He's demonstrated through his actions a lack of moral, a lack of character, an ingrained sense of selfishness at the expense of others, and an ability to bald face lie to someone he loves. This isn't the kind of daddy I'd imagine any woman would want for their child.

 

And, IMHO...just because he had sex with the OW...it doesn't give him the RIGHT to be that child's daddy. Especially when you look at it in cases like Gwen's...where he appears to have DELIBERATELY impregnated her, against her express desire. (he apparently slipped the condom off during intercourse)

 

IMHO...the child would be better off WITHOUT that kind of influence in their lives...which is why I've been an advocate of not having MM involved.

 

Its not intended as an attack on the OW...quite the contrary.

[mistresswchildren]

Owl

Definitely not an attack. I agree. This is why I have finally gotten to the point where I am happy with the way things are. I think that when he went to Iraq, it was the best thing for me. I have done a lot of thinking and soul searching. I don't believe that he is capable of being a good dad for these little ones. He is incapable of loving anybody except his one true love: HIMSELF. I don't want that for the kids.

 

It takes a lot of sacrifices on the parents part to be a good parent (I am not saying that I am a perfect parent, but I know that I am a good one). These are the type of sacrifices that I know this man is not willing to make. He will not change because he is concerned with only himself. The thing about a love affair with yourself is that you can never walk away.

 

COI

I feel that no matter what we say back and forth about his wife, I will always be set in my mind about her. There has been too much bad blood spilled in both directions. At one time I really felt for her and I had stopped the relationship cold. I did care. If you read some of my other threads, you will see why I have my issues with her. It goes beyond the fact that I am the OW and she is the W. Did I place myself in this situation? Yes. I am just as responsible as the MM was. Does she have a right to hate me? No more than she has a right to hate her husband. If she cannot bring herself to hate a man that has cheated on her for over half of their married life, and carried on lies beyond that of any normal human beings imagination, then she has no reason to hate me.

 

Think of it this way, I did not promise to be faithful to her. That was her husbands responsibility. I shouldn't have slept with him, but it wasn't just me in that bed. She holds him to no standard and hates me for the whole thing. I will never change my mind about her at this point. I feel that it is good that there are people in this world that defend her, but no matter what anyone says on that matter, I will never feel differently.

 

Now that may sound like I am somehow blaming her for my mistakes, but I do not. She did not make me sleep with her husband. People sometimes use the excuse that the W drives away the H, but I don't buy that. She didn't push him away any more than I pursued him. It is just a bad situation between us, and I have allowed her to get way too involved in my life, and vice versus.

[Mustang Sally]

The second time was a broken condom, I'll be honest about that. I was still breast feeding so I couldn't be on birth control.

 

Just wanted to point out that there certainly are options for birth control besides condoms while breastfeeding. (Depo comes to mind, but there are others.) As always, see your healthcare provider.

 

 

***And now back to our regularly scheduled programming....***

[Owl]

MWC-

 

Something to think about...

 

You probably will never know for sure what she's thinking about her H's actions in this affair. Odds are, she's just as livid with him as she is with you...but you're hearing about what she feels about you, and nothing about how she feels about him. Because you're not part of the marriage, and she's not going to share with you her feelings about him, and his actions.

 

She probably does blame him just as much. But...and this is a BIG one...she's going to have to find a way to forgive him if she wants to stay married to him. Hopefully, that forgiveness will be contingent upon a change in his actions. Given all of that, she probably does tend to pin more of the blame on you than him...it gives her the 'opportunity' to see a reconciliation as possible in their marriage.

 

She has no reason at all to feel the same about you. She wants nothing further to do with you at all...so she's "free" to put the lion's share of the blame at your feet. And honestly, that shouldn't surprise you.

 

What does it matter to you if she's angrier at you than at him at this point? At this point, you'd be better served in finding a way out of the entire situation, and stop worrying about her feelings...or his.

 

I'm not saying you should allow her to communicate with you, or that you should just sit there and let her walk all over you...by no means. I'm simply trying to help you see her side of the story.

 

One of the best ways to deal with this kind of stuff is learning to see all three sides to the triangle that happens.

 

FWIW...I felt the same way about OM in my wife's affair. Blamed him for all of it...for the same reasons I described above.

[mistresswchildren]

I do understand how you feel, and if that were all to this situation then I would really care about her, but when she says that she hopes that I miscarry, then tells me that she wished she were there to turn the oxygen off on my son (he was very ill when he was born) I have a major problem with her. I don't care who you are. Unless you are a complete head case, you do not hope for the death of a child.

 

She also then said that she would never be safe around my kids. What kind of person says that. She could have just said that she would prefer to not have contact with them, that would have been enough.

 

She can blame me until the day she dies, but she has done as much to screw up her own relationship as he has. She cheated on him as well. The reason why it bothers me so much is that this woman may actually be a part of my kids lives and it scares me to a degree that no one can understand. This is why I do in fact hate her. I do not hate anyone. It is in my rule book. I think that it is a waste of time, but I cannot change how I feel about this woman because she is a threat to my children.

[Owl]

I can understand how you feel, and understand how she feels.

 

I guess I'm asking...why bother caring about how she feels about you any more? Wouldn't you be better served ensuring you're in a position where you won't have to worry about what she feels about you in the first place?

 

I'm not saying she's right for saying the things she's saying, don't take me wrong.

 

I'm suggesting changing the situation in some fashion to ensure that she's not any kind of 'threat' to your well-being, and forget about her.

 

Does that make any more sense?

[used2saynvr]

That's what this board is for and people can give whatever advice they want.

 

i think the point she (mistresswithchildren) is trying to make is that many people aren't chiming in to "give advice". They're just throwing in their little hateful, hurtful comments to get some sort of tingle inside. Though that's their right, and, yes, we do open ourselves up to this scrutiny by posting, it's still just...empty...to use this thread solely to express your disdain. WE GOT IT! Trust us. We know how people feel about it. We even feel the same way, or have before crossing the line ourselves. Many of us don't need a constant head-knocking about things that we cannot change. Advice, however, is always welcome.

Edited April 7, 2008 by used2saynvr

[MimiMe]

Also, the truth and an attack are two completely different things. I know people on here who are very opinionated and sometimes "harsh," but I know it comes from a good place. Those are the people that have actually really helped me (MimiMe and WWIU)

 

 

MWC... I commend you for going all out for your kids. I just joined the world of single parenting myself and yes thanks OW! My home was broken by an A. It's very hard to have children period, nonetheless doing it alone. It's not always about money... unfortunate that these men become just that... financial support, because they were not men enough to be a parent.

 

You are going to get your purple lil stars the day your kids grow up and they are grateful and proud of all you did for them. Regardless of your mistakes, you are striving to offer them the best you can. Kissing their boo-boos and wiping the tears are not something that a court sets a percentage on. It's not something that comes and goes, it is something that will stay in their heart and will build them to be caring, loving human beings whom also one day will make mistakes of their own.

 

Dont worry... the deadbeat of their father is the one that one day wont get the rewarding feeling that parenting gives. He's not the one that is in your kids mind or they see when they "wake up and go to sleep". YOU ARE! He'll be the one that will have to answer all those questions when they become adults and he sees that he missed out on a lifetime of precious moments. Be there for your babies and let the almighty pass him judgement. He'll pay the high price that guilt brings.

 

As per the situation at LS... perhaps some users (I include myself) are just simply under the impression that these stories are looking too fabricated. Opinions are like A-holes EVERYONE has one!!!so if everyone that has an opinion that another user or the originator doesn't like is going to get reported, then I dont see a point of posting here. I am not going to get personal but few users just want to hear what they want to hear and snap when they are told reality or they simply close their thread.

 

I really wish you no less than I wish myself. A FINE A$$ GOOD NEW DADDY for our kids! LOL!

[MimiMe]

Well if the world was a fair place then the betrayed spouses wouldn't have had to worry about people like you and me.

 

They have to put up with us and what we did...I think we can take whatever is said about it here. At least that's my opinion. Compare your problem with posters here, to the wife's problem of another woman being pregnant by her husband.

 

And don't even start with the forum rules....life has rules too and we didn't see a problem breaking those..huh?

 

E..H

 

 

Yikes! I am not going to participate but I will say this... yes, coming here and being destroyed by OW and stbxH I was and perhaps still am loaded with resentment and pain. I also have met few cool people that I have respect for and have heard what they have to say. Nobody is perfect and none of ya where the ones that snatched my stbxH. LOL!

It's hard separating your own feelings and being solely of support.

[MimiMe]

Just think of it this way, how would you feel if the man you've dedicated your life to, was having sex with some "loose" woman and not only that, but because of their affair, it has caused you endless pain and suffering because now your world has turned upside down because this loose woman and your H were just trying to have fun? Now, all those precious holidays, anniversaries, family trips would mean less and maybe even meaningless.

 

How would you feel if you found out that your daddy is having an affair on your mommy with some "loose" woman and because of that it has created so much fight in the house that it effected your ability to sleep and to concentrate in schoold. Add to that, you've acted out and got into fight in school and is now being suspended for three days.

 

How would you feel if your dear daughter is calling you every night crying about her marriage because some loose woman hooked up with your son in law and not only that, now your grandkids' school work are slipping and they get into all kind of trouble in school.

 

How would you feel if the brother that you respected so much is having an affair and got involved with "some woman" and now it has just destroyed the respect you have for your role model. The list just go on and on.

 

Am I saying that the MM is not to blame here? Definitely not! The fact is, you were big part of it and you had sex with a married man who supposed to belong only to his wife.

 

How remorseful are you for your action, not only how it effected you, but also how it effected other people? Do you even care?

 

YOU FEEL LIKE= MimiMe!

 

I was at pathmark this past weekend and had a crying attack in front of everyone! My poor mother and son just stood there and knew nothing of what I was crying about. I just ran back to my car. It hit me to see this young couple and their son food shopping together. I HAD THAT! and we were happy (and for those that are going to reply and say obviously you guys were not- Save it! You didnt live with us to know!). It's now all gone and I was left with nothing!!! Well I have my son that's more than anything ever! but at my age I now have to do what I was not doing in my 20's.... whatever, I dont want to side track the subject just wanted to share that with you guy. I feel like it's pointless to post my personal things here.

[mistresswchildren]

I'm suggesting changing the situation in some fashion to ensure that she's not any kind of 'threat' to your well-being, and forget about her.

 

Does that make any more sense?

 

Good advice. Now, do you have any clue as to how I do this? I have not made contact with her in over three months (which I had to for insurance stuff... power of attorney), and I still get e-mails about her life. I don't need the information that she is providing me with. She will also randomly call my cell. I never gave her that number, and she calls from post. I have to answer the calls from post because they are usually insurance related or child support related. The military always has questions about what the State has done.

 

Then there is the fact that I don't want her to every see these kids without court supervision. Let's face it, that won't happen forever. Also, if he decides he wants visitation, she will be the one taking care of them during the day. I am quite uneasy about this. I have spoken to lawyers and they have all said, it just depends on the judge. I am lucky in the fact that my family's name goes a long way in my county, but it will only stretch so far. Ideally, he would never see them. I don't think he wants to, and this is why I say that. If I felt that he truly had their best interest at heart, then I would deal with the fact that he wants to see them, but right now, he is wielding them like a weapon. They are no more to him than a cleverly brandished sword. He knows how to get to me, and through them, he always will.

[child_of_isis]

Get a restraining order on her.

 

Good advice. Now, do you have any clue as to how I do this? I have not made contact with her in over three months (which I had to for insurance stuff... power of attorney), and I still get e-mails about her life. I don't need the information that she is providing me with. She will also randomly call my cell. I never gave her that number, and she calls from post. I have to answer the calls from post because they are usually insurance related or child support related. The military always has questions about what the State has done.

 

[mistresswchildren]

Get a restraining order on her.

 

This may sound like a stupid question, but can I even do that?

[TheRain]

I don't agree at all that you are one of the few here who is as educated and intelligent as me.

 

How many people in here do you now of who have more than a Masters degree and as intelligent as you are? Not to mention still in his/her 20s? If you can provide me with a satisfactory number, I'll be quite about this issue.

 

 

Lastly, you're right that I share most of your values. That doesn't mean I don't understand what leads people to make mistakes and bad decisions, as I have done.

 

I think that's the main difference between you and me. You have done it, I have not.

 

 

Anyway. Among my values are empathy, compassion and tolerance. That seems to be the primary difference between you and me, TheRain. I do hope you can learn these values one day and I see that you have tempered the formerly nasty tone of your posts to make them a little less nasty... so perhaps you are getting there slowly but surely.

 

No, you're wrong. I am still the old me 2 weeks ago. I do have empathy and compassion for those who are wronged and not whose who are doing the wrong things. That's another of our difference stams from the first main difference.

[TheRain]

YOU FEEL LIKE= MimiMe!

 

I was at pathmark this past weekend and had a crying attack in front of everyone! My poor mother and son just stood there and knew nothing of what I was crying about. I just ran back to my car. It hit me to see this young couple and their son food shopping together. I HAD THAT! and we were happy (and for those that are going to reply and say obviously you guys were not- Save it! You didnt live with us to know!). It's now all gone and I was left with nothing!!! Well I have my son that's more than anything ever! but at my age I now have to do what I was not doing in my 20's.... whatever, I dont want to side track the subject just wanted to share that with you guy. I feel like it's pointless to post my personal things here.

 

Nadiaj, my compassion and empathy are for people like her.