Christians: Would you stone your daughter to death if she wasn't a virgin at wedding?

[Myst]

Im not sure if these have been answered. How come some Christians reject the things that are in the old testament? Shouldn't they agree with BOTH the old and new testament?

 

Plus how come the different Christian denominations think they're particular group is more superior than another Christian group. Isnt it the same God?

 

Why are some religious people really judgemental about lifestyles that are deemed wrong in the bible. When you argue with them about it they're only defence is "Well it's wrong because the Bible says so!". What kind of valid argument is that?

[Love Hurts]

Old Testament the blood of bulls and goats.

Was only a covering for sin not a cleansing from sin.

 

Hebrews 10:4

For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

 

 

Those before the cross looked forward to it.. As we look back on it.

 

 

This side of the cross; The New Testament.

Jesus is the ultimate blood sacrifice..

The sacrificial Lamb of God [the Father].

 

Cross = roads of division….

 

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. John 14: 6

--------------------------------------------------------

 

 

Matthew 7:4- don’t condemn your brother; you are guiltier than he.

 

John 8:7 He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. (they all walked away, condemned by their own sin)

 

Romans 3:10 -none is righteous no not one.

 

We need to admit we are sinners and repent.

[wolf359]

I find it funny that this thread is directed towards Christians and you still see non-believers debating/arguing on here.

The thread was started by(presumably) a non-Christian in order to stir the pot and bash the believers and their faith. Debating with such folks simply isn't worth the energy, as no explanation will ever suffice.

[Untouchable_Fire]

Sorry, but most Christians pick and choose. Why are people so afraid to just leave out the Old Testament. It was written in a society that was so immoral that they couldn't even come close to writing a book that would apply to Christians, and moral people as a whole, 2000 years later. Good for the time? maybe; good for today? absolutely not. Why do preachers still look at it for guidance if it doesn't "apply to our times"? Ultimately, the Word primarily comes down to YOUR conscious. People take this too far some times, but it is what the Bible (or the Old Testament mainly) leaves us with. I actually find some general wisdom and, for the most part, moral clarity in the New, but the Old is too much for me. My thoughts are a tad scattered but you should be able to get the point...

 

This whole thread bothers me in that we have a bunch of people who obviously have never read more than 1 or 2 verses of the bible talking about it's contradictions.

 

J_Hunt,

 

Listen friend. Human nature has not changed in the last 10,000 years. We may have cellphones and cars, but we are just as nasty and brutal on the inside as we were back then... we are just richer.

 

Now, in regards to your question about Old Testament law. We as Christians are called to act in accordance with that law... it has not changed. So, why don't we stone people? Because Jesus took that penalty himself. No blood sacrifice is require now.

 

It's not that the old testament is irrelevant, or just a gobbledygook of nice wise old stories and saying. It's that Jesus Christ paid that price for you on the cross.

 

If you wish clarification on this feel free to ask me. Listening to the atheists ramble about Christianity is about as smart as asking your dog to solve quantum physics!

[DutchGuy]

This whole thread bothers me in that we have a bunch of people who obviously have never read more than 1 or 2 verses of the bible talking about it's contradictions.

 

J_Hunt,

 

Listen friend. Human nature has not changed in the last 10,000 years. We may have cellphones and cars, but we are just as nasty and brutal on the inside as we were back then... we are just richer.

 

Now, in regards to your question about Old Testament law. We as Christians are called to act in accordance with that law... it has not changed. So, why don't we stone people? Because Jesus took that penalty himself. No blood sacrifice is require now.

 

It's not that the old testament is irrelevant, or just a gobbledygook of nice wise old stories and saying. It's that Jesus Christ paid that price for you on the cross.

 

If you wish clarification on this feel free to ask me. Listening to the atheists ramble about Christianity is about as smart as asking your dog to solve quantum physics!

 

How clever of you, as an Atheist I can tell you that you are supposed to believe that the Earth was created 6'000 years ago.

 

So much for those 2 verses I read, eh?

[DutchGuy]

The thread was started by(presumably) a non-Christian in order to stir the pot and bash the believers and their faith. Debating with such folks simply isn't worth the energy, as no explanation will ever suffice.

 

Calling non-believes simple folk...

That's like me telling a Russian that he sucks at speaking an understandable language. It is not the messenger that is impaired, it's the person receiving the message.

 

By the way, Dr House, whose wisdom you use in your footnote, is an Atheist character.

[NoIDidn't]

How clever of you, as an Atheist I can tell you that you are supposed to believe that the Earth was created 6'000 years ago.

 

So much for those 2 verses I read, eh?

 

Ahh, you gotta love the non-Christians/atheists and their attempts at changing the goalposts when they don't get the argument that they want. All Christians don't adhere to Creationist theology. But that's enough about that attempt to change the topic.

 

Everyone has given great answers to the original question - and provided the scriptures to support it.

 

A follower of Christ (what Christian stands for), hopefully believes that His sacrifice took care of all those commands that were meant to cleanse the people of sin - being as He became Sin for us.

[Dark-N-Romantic]

Im not sure if these have been answered. How come some Christians reject the things that are in the old testament? Shouldn't they agree with BOTH the old and new testament?

 

Plus how come the different Christian denominations think they're particular group is more superior than another Christian group. Isnt it the same God?

 

Why are some religious people really judgemental about lifestyles that are deemed wrong in the bible. When you argue with them about it they're only defence is "Well it's wrong because the Bible says so!". What kind of valid argument is that?

 

1. How come some Christians reject the things that are in the old testament? Reject and held up to those standards are two different things. One thing many people misunderstand is what wisdoms God wants us to take out of it and what is just history. Like our text books tells of our histories, our fore-parents have done many heroic and villainous things that are commendable and worth keeping in mind as we live life and there are things that are so horrid that we need to know so that we don't repeat the same actions. And lastly, there are things that shows the changes that needed to be made to bring them to their point in life. The same is with the Bible. We get to see God, his people, and their interaction with the world from a past outlook. Also the Old Testament is much more about creation, history, and the ways of old and the reasons for the birth of Christ. Instead of focusing on a select people who in their own actions made their laws and rituals worthless, God opened salvation up to everyone and no longer were the trappings of rituals and many sacrifices necessary. But, through acceptance of Christ, prayer, and God's grace are we suppose to be saved and those who decide not to accept or live the way of life, are suppose to find themselves separated from God and in that separation, tormented for their sins.

 

Of course this is an abridged version for space sake.

 

2. Shouldn't they agree with BOTH the old and new testament? It is not agreement that concerns us. We know God has a reason for all that He did, does, and will do. But, what was yesterday is meant to be a lesson for the here and know. The same is with the Christians of today and of old. While many are still stuck in old traditions and ways that was necessary for that time, there are also things we have to adapt to, not to be like everyone else, but to better interact with the world. Just like by all Israelite law, the woman who was caught in the affair with the married may should have been stoned to death. However, our sins and the harshness of some of our punishments are beyond the judgment of mankind and thus, while the wrongness must be addressed, stoning someone was not the answer for that person probably could of learned from their wrong doing (as the case is with so many things today). However, this does not mean those who take a life should NOT have their life taken away (that is a different theory of mine I can address elsewhere if one wishes to hear). The same with today. We are talking about a lot more things that would once be considered personal and worthy of a person's ousting from a Christian group. Things like talking about sex would be considered so taboo and not a topic for the church, but since our sexual nature is so in our face today, the church would be doing people and their purpose a disservice by not addressing sex and its role in life and spirit.

3. Plus how come the different Christian denominations think they're particular group is more superior than another Christian group. Isnt it the same God? Just because one claims something does not take away who they are. Christians are still people. People with envy, lust, pride, greed, wrath, sloth, and gluttony. We still think our way and thoughts and understandings are right and what we say go. This is both good and bad depending on how one uses their convictions. For example, I believe a lot of the things that have been revealed is correct. But, that is because this is my path that God has set me on and my experiences are unique that they make since to me. And so, for me my convictions are right, but to others, I need to treat my convictions as a advice, an option for one to think about and see if it fits within their life. So, yes, there is going to be a lot of rivalry between denominations and faiths and the exercises of that faith (some believe in traditional ways, some believe in unconventional expressions), but in the end, the only thing that SHOULD concerns us and that concerns God is this...Did they love Me. And did the show love to their fellow mankind. Everything else is done by the grace of God. So, all these trappings and material things people knit pick at means nothing in the end.

 

4. Why are some religious people really judgemental about lifestyles that are deemed wrong in the bible. When you argue with them about it they're only defence is "Well it's wrong because the Bible says so!". What kind of valid argument is that? That is called convictions and their is a basis. For example, why is a person 18 year old or older considered wrong for sleeping with someone who is below their age? Is it because it IS wrong or because we have accepted through laws that it is wrong. Why do society itself place the same thoughts on things we do. Perfect example, look up Max Hardcore and his trial. For those who don't know, Max Hardcore is a porn actor who shoots scenes with women of age who pretend to be under the age and he does some pretty vial sexual things to them and they enjoy it. Is this obscene? Is this wrong? How about plain old porn and prostitution? These people are making money doing what they love to do. But, yet they are judged harshly by those of faith and those of not the faith the same. Homosexuality and marriage. Why is that a debate? To spank a child or not to spank a child? There is a valid argument for all these things that a person is right or wrong for doing, and where there is a question we use laws to tell us what is right or wrong. The same with those of a faith who use their scriptures, these are their laws by which to tell someone if what they are doing right or wrong and hopefully why it is right or wrong.

 

I hope I have answered your questions. They are simplistic answer that I can expound on, but for space I keep short. One thing I came to the realization the other day is this, I as a Christian am not missing or losing out on anyone who holds the same beliefs in life and who does not walk the way of a faith. I choose not to smoke, not because of my faith, but because of the issues of health. I choose not to have sex before I am married not just because my word tells me, but because I don't want to put myself at risk or accidentally bring in a child into the world and not be married. I live helping others not just because the Bible tells me so, but because I wont others to love me the same and because others have shown me love. The only thing I have to do is add some prayers throughout my day, think about the things about ready to get into, control my sinful thoughts, and not just work on desire. And so what is the real difference between me and the rest of the world, besides my belief in another world and living a life trying to get to it?

 

 

DNR

[DutchGuy]

Ahh, you gotta love the non-Christians/atheists and their attempts at changing the goalposts when they don't get the argument that they want. All Christians don't adhere to Creationist theology. But that's enough about that attempt to change the topic.

 

Everyone has given great answers to the original question - and provided the scriptures to support it.

 

A follower of Christ (what Christian stands for), hopefully believes that His sacrifice took care of all those commands that were meant to cleanse the people of sin - being as He became Sin for us.

 

If you don't believe in creation but still believe in god, you're a complete idiot.

Why won't you believe the concept of creation if you do believe in the bible? It's right in there. It is the true word of god you know.

 

If I was to believe that the smurfs are real, why the hell would I refuse to believe they were blue?

[FleshNBones]

If you don't believe in creation but still believe in god, you're a complete idiot.

Why won't you believe the concept of creation if you do believe in the bible? It's right in there. It is the true word of god you know.

 

If I was to believe that the smurfs are real, why the hell would I refuse to believe they were blue?

There are four creation stories.

Maintaining an accurate historical account is a modern idea.

 

You seem to have some wacky ideas.

You don't believe in the existence of parents so I guess you are somewhere on the fringe.

[Quinch]

"No-one is to stone anyone until I blow this whistle. Even - and I want to make this absolutely clear - even if they do say Jehovah!"

 

Life of Brian (gotta love that movie )

[J2FT1]

Why are there Dinosaur bones? To test our faith in god? Why have so many people died over god? He is special so he needs a milliontrillion lives to justify his worth? Is it a he? Where's the equality in that?

[DutchGuy]

Why have so many died over oil, or land, or to expand one groups control over another? Because we are humans and what we don't agree with, don't like or can't explain we kill it. It is the nature of man. Don't agree-assassinate it. Be it the character, the faith, the soul or the body, we kill.

 

I thought the whole point of christianity is that you can overcome your flawed nature by turning to christ. But all I see is killing, destroying and raping in the name of the father.

[FleshNBones]

I thought the whole point of christianity is that you can overcome your flawed nature by turning to christ. But all I see is killing, destroying and raping in the name of the father.

You must be blind.

[DutchGuy]

No one is perfect, no one in the flesh will overcome all the sins of the flesh. It isn't possible. Turning to Christ affords us the opportunity to change the way we think and behave. You can't equate one person's lack of true Christianity with all Christians. Just like I can't equate the life of all atheist with the hate filled words of one or a few. But as I said before killing, destroying and raping are also committed in the name of wealth, ethnic cleansing, and control, these acts are committed by small countries and large countries. They are committed in the name of whatever you chose to justify wrong doing. That doesn't mean all Christians do those particular things.

 

I think if these are the criteria for true Christians, there aren't lot of them, just a whole lot of hypocrits.

 

So a true Christian would never be in the army?

A true Christian would never vote for a pro war government?

 

Somehow I find this hard to believe, especially because god is mentioned all the time in these contextes.

[DutchGuy]

You must be blind.

 

Am I?

Or are you the one who is blind for the sorrow that religion causes?

[FleshNBones]

Am I?

Or are you the one who is blind for the sorrow that religion causes?

Here is another quote from you.

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t149052/8

Secondly, it is not that I personally ever got harmed by religion, it is that I see the bad that follows because of religion: fanatism and extremism, discrimination, war, rape (forcing gays to have relations with people they are not attracted to), self-loathing, naiveness (and consequently being taken advantage of), isolation and the plain and simple given that (and this is ofcourse my own opinion) the whole concept of a deity is ridiculous.

I know that only a fragment of the believers is victim of these things but they do derive from religion.

Don't let your pride blind you.

[DutchGuy]

Here is another quote from you.

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t149052/8

Don't let your pride blind you.

 

So?

If you never got sick from spoiled eggs yourself and you know not all people get sick from spoiled eggs...

 

Then it's still allowed to say that spoiled eggs lead to being sick.

[FleshNBones]

So?

If you never got sick from spoiled eggs yourself and you know not all people get sick from spoiled eggs...

 

Then it's still allowed to say that spoiled eggs lead to being sick.

Maybe you should get out from behind you computer and meet some of these racist rapists you call Christians. You can sit through one of their Masses on Sunday, and witness the brutality in person.

If one of them exends a hand out for a handshake, run away as fast as you can because it could be the cue for a takedown.

 

You remind me of Borat.

[NoIDidn't]

If you don't believe in creation but still believe in god, you're a complete idiot.

Why won't you believe the concept of creation if you do believe in the bible? It's right in there. It is the true word of god you know.

 

If I was to believe that the smurfs are real, why the hell would I refuse to believe they were blue?

 

 

Believe it or not, it is possible to believe in the Biblical account of The Creation and not be a Creationist.

 

A Creationist believes that the Biblical account is the ONLY explanation for our existence. I don't share that belief.

 

But enough of this. I thought this thread was about stoning my promiscuous daughter. LOL.

[J2FT1]

Believe it or not, it is possible to believe in the Biblical account of The Creation and not be a Creationist.

 

A Creationist believes that the Biblical account is the ONLY explanation for our existence. I don't share that belief.

 

But enough of this. I thought this thread was about stoning my promiscuous daughter. LOL.

 

Yeah, creationism is extremely improbable. If god created everything, how did god come to be?

 

NoIDidn't - His name is spelled "yoda"

[Pedigree]

He is special so he needs a milliontrillion lives to justify his worth?

 

This I never understand. He knows that in undertaking creation He's going to give Himself a lot of grief but He still does it anyway. I sure hope He did it NOT BECAUSE He wants to be worshipped or He wants play the part of hero at the end of times. If that's the case, that is one megalomaniacal being.

 

Man, I'm having a crisis of faith.

[J2FT1]

We all do at some point. Hell, I ran as far away from God as I could get, and still I needed him. He does everything that he does because he loves us. Faith is not knowing all the answers, but trusting in something far beyond ourselves. Even with the world the way it is today, I have faith that there will eventually be peace. I pray you find what you are looking for.

 

I don't think people give themselves enough respect and credit. The hardships that you (people) go through and endure is not because of "god" from above. It came from within. You are the one that did what you did, and you are the one you should thank and love. God has nothing on that. He/she/It never will.

[J2FT1]

Love myself to death and I respect myself and talents. And most of the hardships that we go through are of our own doing. And I wouldn't do anything at all if it werent' for His love and mercy.

 

Lol, ok.

 

 

 

...So it's a "he." So sexist.

[J2FT1]

Whatever makes you feel better. If it feels good to bash my beliefs, bash away.

 

I'm just trying to be funny. If it offended you then I am truly sorry. I am really not against religion at all. Whatever makes people happy is a good thing.