Anyone ever dated or married someone with Borderline Personality Disorder

[sedgwick]

To reiterate my specific questions:

 

1. Can you speak to the work of Dr. Larry Siever in California, who reported after a double-blind study that patients with Borderline Personality Disorder tended to show greater responses to pharmacologic agents which induce affective changes? Can you lay out for me your negations of that and their biological basis?

 

2. What do you know about serotonin, dopamine, and norepinephrine regulation in the treatment of this "incurable" disorder?

 

3. Please tell me the doctors to whom you have spoken, their credentials, and their take on the work of Llinas, Linehan, and Siever.

 

4. What is your take on the interaction of the thalamus and the amygdala in BPD, and its treatment with calcium-channel-gated neuroleptics?

 

Two quotes from Lishy that led me to believe that she feels people with BPD should not have romantic relationships:

 

"I would also advise anyone to never get involved with someone with BPD."

 

"I really feel for anyone with this disorder as they are a victim of circumstance but I would also not have anything to do with them either! I would run as fast as I could!"

 

Can you really not understand, Nevermind, how tremendously insulting and dismissive these statements are, and how they might make me feel frustration and anger? Can you, please, attempt to empathize with how a person might feel if s/he had had to listen to these types of statements for his/her entire life, while struggling to deal with a disorder wherein s/he already feels like sh*t about him- or herself? Essentially what I'm being told here is that because I was born with this illness, I should be run from -- what if, instead, others attempted to understand, and to see the good in me, and to appreciate the beautiful things I have made as a result of my heightened sensitivity, which is not always a curse? Have faith in a borderline person and we will be so grateful we'll give you the moon.

 

Should my publisher have run from me, or should she have given me the once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to eloquently tell my story?

[Nevermind]

I can understand the frustration, but you might want to take a look at the threads where Lishy said what she went through with her ex. This is a singular case, but it's an experience and you cannot debate it. If I were Lishy, I would try to stay as far away from somebody with the same disorder as I could.

It's just the same when you're out of an abusive relationship with an alcoholic. Chances are that you will not tolerate alcoholism again. (I know, two very different things, but my point here is the value of experience.)

 

You took it very personally. Of course, it is your personal life and I would feel hurt as well. But you took it to another level. You made direct connections to your own recent situation and felt directly insulted as a person, and counter-insulted Lishy. Yet, your very recent situation and hurt was brought up by you. And it seemed to fuel your anger.

 

I never said you were wrong, did I? I just said that you were not doing your argumentation a favour.

[sedgwick]

You took it very personally. Of course, it is your personal life and I would feel hurt as well. But you took it to another level. You made direct connections to your own recent situation and felt directly insulted as a person, and counter-insulted Lishy. Yet, your very recent situation and hurt was brought up by you. And it seemed to fuel your anger.

 

And if Lishy had simply said, "I had a bad experience with a person who had the disorder, and as such, I personally plan to stay away from those with the diagnosis," and if she hadn't said that my BPD was the reason I couldn't get over my breakup, and if she hadn't said to me that I still have so many "borderline traits," I'd never have responded.

[Nevermind]

Have faith in a borderline person and we will be so grateful we'll give you the moon.

That's a generalisation. Every single person is an individual. Not every single person will give you the moon if you faith in them. I know why you wrote it, but you were the one who brought up being accurate and not saying anything you can't prove.

 

Should my publisher have run from me, or should she have given me the once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to eloquently tell my story?

Again. Nobody said that. It's even far from the context of romantic relationships. Once again, you're seeing a personal insult where there is none.

 

edit: This is off-topic and will be my last reply to this thread. Sorry, OP.

[blind_otter]

 

There is NO SUCH THING as "strong mindedness" curing a mental illness. There IS such a thing as therapy and medication doing so.

 

I respectfully disagree. In fact, my "strong mindedness" and my attitude toward recovery was part of what helped me make such dramatic progress in only 12 months, according to my psychiatrist. Therapy and medication is part of the process - an essential part. But the attitude that the patient brings to their recovery process is JUST as important. That's the difference between someone who spends years and years making little to no progress (I personally witnessed a man with BPD who had been in inpatient treatment for 10 years with little to no progress) and someone who DOES make progress.

[sedgwick]

Once again, I quote Lishy:

 

"I would also advise anyone to never get involved with someone with BPD."

 

"I really feel for anyone with this disorder as they are a victim of circumstance but I would also not have anything to do with them either! I would run as fast as I could!"

 

These are the statements that led me to believe that in Lishy's opinion, we should be denied romantic relationships.

 

I do apologize for having made the generalized statement about "giv[ing] the moon." There, I was speaking from my own anecdotal evidence of the tremendous longing for love and connection I experienced amongst every person with whom I did DBT. There's also a long section in the book I Hate You, Don't Leave Me, by Jerold J. Kreisman and Hal Straus, about the tremendous desire of borderlines to give love. The book Borderline Personality Disorder Demystified, by Robert O. Friedel, Perry D. Hoffman, Dixianne Penney, and Patricia Woodward, speaks of this phenomenon as well. Marsha Linehan has also made note of this trait amongst the borderlines she's treated. But you're right, I don't know every single person in the world with the diagnosis, and as such, my logic was faulty. I do apologize.

 

But I'm giving Lishy the benefit of the doubt here. If she answers my questions based on her own research, I will certainly enter into as emotionally-neutral a discussion as I can.

[Lishy]

Sedge, why don't you go back over the replies I have given you in your previous posts regarding your ex. Where have I made it seem like it is your fault? I have never done anything but support you and tried to make you feel better about yourself. I have told you that you are a wonderful person and that you deserve so much more - Go and read them Sedge and then tell me I am trying to make you, as an individual, feel bad!

 

My ex has BPD. My doctor has told me that because of his suicide attempts and cutting and compulsive behaviour my son should not see him. My son does not have a dad because of this illness. My ex has been vile to me and made my life a living hell!! He has bullied me, demeaned me, called me every foul name under the sun, he rang the police and told them he had killed me and he done that because I changed my number so he could not scream abuse down the phone at me. He wanted to tell our 8 year old about him trying to kill himself. He cut his arm to the bone just because he saw me one day! I could go on for hours at the things that man has done to me - Oh and the classic is that he says it is all ok as he is ill! He never accepts any resposibility for what he does. SO I would still scream RUN to anyone considering being with a BPD.

 

Do you know how it feels to be an innocent party to the treatment I have received because of his illness?

 

We all have our own experiences and if you feel insulted by my feelings then so be it!

 

You have taken it as a personal insult and then blamed me when it is YOU who has blown this up!

 

I do not know the doctors you have repeatedly named to me as I have a busy life and that damned illness has taken enough of my time and emotion. It hurts me to read about it anymore as I get scared. Do you know how it feels to be scared of the father of your child as you think that one day he will kill you? No you dont, just as I dont know how it feels to have BPD, I just know how it feels to be the victim of a BPD!

 

Get off your soap crate Sedge I do not need numerous lectures from you thanks!

 

Just as you feel anger at my words as a BPD sufferer, I feel the same at your bullying responses, you sound just like my ex to be honest! ::Shudder:: He could never just accept someone else's opinions and had to fight it to the end too and try to demean anyone who went against his ideas and thoughts!

[sedgwick]

Oh and the classic is that he says it is all ok as he is ill! He never accepts any resposibility for what he does. SO I would still scream RUN to anyone considering being with a BPD.

 

Do you know how it feels to be an innocent party to the treatment I have received because of his illness?

 

You have taken it as a personal insult and then blamed me when it is YOU who has blown this up!

 

I do not know the doctors you have repeatedly named to me as I have a busy life and that damned illness has taken enough of my time and emotion.

 

Get off your soap crate Sedge I do not need numerous lectures from you thanks!

 

Just as you feel anger at my words as a BPD sufferer, I feel the same at your bullying responses, you sound just like my ex to be honest! ::Shudder:: He could never just accept someone else's opinions and had to fight it to the end too and try to demean anyone who went against his ideas and thoughts!

 

Okay, Lishy, but can you see AT ALL how your statements sound to someone who HAS worked hard at getting over this disorder, someone who DOESN'T dismiss their behavior by saying they're ill, and how it might make me feel for you to say that there's nothing to be done about it, and that you would still, even after reading everything I've said, advise someone to run -- indiscriminately -- from anyone with the diagnosis?

 

I am not at all trying to bully you, I'm just asking you to back up your statements with facts. I am not trying to demean you, but I myself feel VERY demeaned by being dismissed as someone to be run from simply because of my diagnosis (regardless of whether or not I'm taking steps to get better), and by having my research dismissed by saying "I don't want to read anymore about this disorder?" And can you understand how it might feel to me to have these statements follow the pet names, "Hon," "Honey," and "Babe?"

 

I am simply asking you how you might feel if someone negated and dismissed you and your work and then refused to back up that negation with facts.

 

I take offense at being told I am "just like" the guy who cut himself up after seeing you. And I, too, have a life, and this illness has also taken up a lot of MY time, but I've done my research because I want to know what I'm talking about if I'm going to talk.

 

I completely respect others' opinions, but when your opinions are all you have with which to negate my facts, my study, and, indeed, my life's work, that doesn't sit well with me.

[Lishy]

I would just like to add that I would never want to insult any individual with this disorder, I know that with strong will and determination and pure acceptance of your own behaviour coupled with therapy and maybe meds it can change the results of this illness. My ex was the extreme/in denial case and not everyone is the same.

 

I cannot help how I feel, and I do not take my feeling back but I really did not mean to offend anone with this illness!

[sedgwick]

I respectfully disagree. In fact, my "strong mindedness" and my attitude toward recovery was part of what helped me make such dramatic progress in only 12 months, according to my psychiatrist. Therapy and medication is part of the process - an essential part. But the attitude that the patient brings to their recovery process is JUST as important. That's the difference between someone who spends years and years making little to no progress (I personally witnessed a man with BPD who had been in inpatient treatment for 10 years with little to no progress) and someone who DOES make progress.

 

Oh, absolutely strong-mindedness (or, in DBT, "core mindfulness"), and the desire to get better, does indeed help one make dramatic progress! It's just that that alone doesn't "cure" you. I'm not surviving my disorder because I'm strong-minded, I'm surviving because that will allowed me to make the right choices about treatment. You are absolutely correct. I shouldn't have worded that the way I did.

 

One cannot make progress without that will, that strong-mindedness, that core mindfulness. It is essential. It's just that that alone won't heal you, and that's what I was trying to say. I apologize that I wasn't clearer.

 

What sort of therapy did you do? What meds are you on? Did you do DBT or Schema? I'd love to talk to someone who did Schema!

[Lishy]

Sedge, I did not go out of my way to offend you or anyone with this illness. I am not going to quote you but you have tried to demean and bully me and this is quite evident. Just re-read your replies!

 

I know you have worked hard at getting better and I wish you well!

[sedgwick]

I would just like to add that I would never want to insult any individual with this disorder, I know that with strong will and determination and pure acceptance of your own behaviour coupled with therapy and maybe meds it can change the results of this illness. My ex was the extreme/in denial case and not everyone is the same.

 

Thank you very much for saying that. That was all I needed in the first place. I appreciate it.

 

You have an absolute right to your feelings and opinions, and I totally understand where you're coming from. Untreated BPD is a nightmare, without question. I just don't like it when feelings and opinions are seen as being scientifically definitive, without intensive study into the etiology of the disorder.

[Art_Critic]

To be fair Sedge, You have no idea what it is like to be in a relationship with someone who has BPD..

It is a total rollercoaster.. it is a feeling of never knowing which way is up.. total chaos.

 

I'm an Alcoholic and I can tell you what we are capable of, but it wouldn't be fair if I went into someone's thread where they asked if anyone has every dated a drunk and I totally ignored the fact that Alcoholics are totally destructive to relationships and totally ignored all the damage that we do or can do to people and painted Alcoholism as something sweet and peachy if you just accept that they are drunks.

[sedgwick]

To be fair Sedge, You have no idea what it is like to be in a relationship with someone who has BPD..

 

Interesting you should say that, given that it was my relationship with my borderline ex-gf that made me realize the extent of my own disorder and seek treatment. In fact, I made that decision while sitting in the hospital waiting room at 4 a.m. after one of her suicide attempts.

 

Please tell me where I described BPD as "sweet and peachy." It's horrible, and someone who refuses to seek treatment absolutely should not be in a relationship. Believe me, I am aware of what I've done to people, and I feel a world of guilt about it. You don't even know.

[Art_Critic]

I sure do! It was my relationship with my borderline ex-gf that made me realize the extent of my own disorder and seek treatment. In fact, I made that decision while sitting in the hospital waiting room at 4 a.m. after one of her suicide attempts.

 

Please tell me where I described BPD as "sweet and peachy."

'

Then you should know that what Lishy is posting has merit then..

 

They will give you the moon is sweet and peachy Sedge..

[sedgwick]

'

Then you should know that what Lishy is posting has merit then..

 

They will give you the moon is sweet and peachy Sedge..

 

See my previous reply to Lishy. See also my response to you from approximately two minutes ago wherein I agree that what both you and Lishy are saying has merit.

 

See the response I made, also, to Nevermind, apologizing for the "give you the moon" remark and admitting that that statement was largely anecdotal and not scientifically stringent.

 

Nobody knows like I do the rampant destruction this disorder can cause. There's nothing "sweet and peachy" about it at all. But the heightened sensitivity experienced by those with BPD can sometimes lead to positive and beautiful things, and I stand by that statement. (Note that I am speaking to the sensitivity and NOT to the disorder itself.)

[Lishy]

I do believe that part of the illness made Sedge reply the way she did, the fact that she can then look at it after and admit she was wrong shows that her therapy and self help has helped her loads! My ex would have responded the same angry way but he would never back down. When you disagreed with him he would respond angry and when told the facts he would scream abuse and swear in the most vile way I have ever heard. I tended to agree with him verbally even when I disagreed in my head!

 

It makes me feel better to know that with work and acceptance that maybe one day he will own his own behaviour and be the dad my son really needs! Hopefully!

[sedgwick]

It makes me feel better to know that with work and acceptance that maybe one day he will own his own behaviour and be the dad my son really needs! Hopefully!

 

It is absolutely possible. Thank you for acknowledging that my work has been productive, I appreciate that. Has he tried DBT or Schema Therapy? Has anyone ever suggested those to him? Is he taking meds? I'm telling you, Lamictal has worked wonders for literally every BPD person I know who has taken it. (This is NOT to say it's effective for all, of course, but I've seen some dramatic personality changes -- including my own -- after its administration.)

[Art_Critic]

Nobody knows like I do the rampant destruction this disorder can cause. There's nothing "sweet and peachy" about it at all. But the heightened sensitivity experienced by those with BPD can sometimes lead to positive and beautiful things, and I stand by that statement. (Note that I am speaking to the sensitivity and NOT to the disorder itself.)

 

There is nothing wrong with that outlook.. that is a good outlook to have..

 

Even though.. that doesn't mean that someone should want to experience what you have with your ex in order to get to those positive things.. those experiences do more than help people.. they hurt people...

[Lishy]

Sedge I do not even speak to him, just hearing his voice makes my stomach turn!

 

He truly is a vile human being! I have, at times, wished that he would succeed in suicide as then I would be free! How bad is that?

 

I hope he does try those things though, for our son's sake!

[Art_Critic]

Thank you for acknowledging that my work has been productive,

 

That is obvious Sedge.. you are obviously someone who is seeking treatment and helping yourself get better...

[sedgwick]

Even though.. that doesn't mean that someone should want to experience what you have with your ex in order to get to those positive things.. those experiences do more than help people.. they hurt people...

 

Absolutely. And I never said anyone should go through a relationship with an untreated borderline with a lack of self-awareness just to get to the good stuff. That would be ridiculous! Nobody should knowingly put themselves in that situation as it is tremendously destructive to all involved. But just as you wouldn't want someone to judge you for the rest of your life as an alcoholic, when you've stopped drinking and made an attempt to get your life together, I don't want to feel like I'm being told that because of my diagnosis I should just be tossed aside for the rest of my life, even when I work hard to make changes.

 

And Lishy, I apologize for making you feel bullied. I felt dismissed and I perhaps stood up for myself a little too vehemently. I loathe bullies and would never, ever, EVER want to come off as such. I just wanted to speak in facts as opposed to opinions.

[Lishy]

Apology accepted Sedge, I do understand you know. Even though I hate him now I didnt always hate my ex and even though he has done terrible things to me he was a good man deep down!

 

Also Sedge I think you have to understand that you are in the minority, not many have had the therapy you have and accepted their illness. Many BPDs are undiagnosed or in denial or like my ex when he gets bad he gets help and then when he feels better he stops the meds and crashed down again! It is so frustrating! He is just not capable of doing the right thing and now my son need psycho therapy for the damage done by his dad!

[Art_Critic]

But just as you wouldn't want someone to judge you for the rest of your life as an alcoholic, when you've stopped drinking and made an attempt to get your life together, I don't want to feel like I'm being told that because of my diagnosis I should just be tossed aside for the rest of my life, even when I work hard to make changes.

 

I totally understand how you feel sedge..

You are fresh in your treatment/wellness and I'm a bit of old timer in my sobriety and have a different viewpoint... that isn't to say your viewpoint will change.. I'm just saying that thru the years my viewpoint has been changed

 

With me I really don't care what people think of me being an Alcoholic.. they don't live my life.. I do.

 

If someone chooses to judge me for being a drunk then they lose out on what I have to offer as a human being.. I certainly don't lose out by being judged for being an Alcoholic...

 

I love being a Sober Alcoholic.. it is who I am.. and going thru with the trials and tribulations of sobriety is what helped make me who I am today..

I have no regrets...

[sedgwick]

If someone chooses to judge me for being a drunk then they lose out on what I have to offer as a human being.. I certainly don't lose out by being judged for being an Alcoholic...

 

I love being a Sober Alcoholic.. it is who I am.. and going thru with the trials and tribulations of sobriety is what helped make me who I am today..

I have no regrets...

 

I totally agree! I love being a borderline who can disprove commonly-held beliefs about the disorder. That makes me feel strong and proud. It makes me feel like I've survived something major, something that kills a lot of people. I'm sure you understand!!

 

And anyone who chooses to judge me as borderline and nothing more is missing out on knowing a goofy funny vibrant person who can not only knit for them but surround them with bellydancers at a moment's notice! Their loss!