Why all the focus on the OW - is it sexual jealousy?

[GPFan]

GPF, as a matter of interest - do you see this as being different to a "normal" step-parent situation, such as dating a divorced guy who has kids?

 

I remember my SIL telling me one day when we were comparing step-parenting notes that one thing these remarried dads just don't realise is that the "step-mom" both loves and hates the child, loves the child because of the relationship she builds up with the child independently of the dad; hates because what the step-mom really wants is her H all to herself, like any "normal" couple. It struck me at the time because my own experience wasn't like that... but I'm wondering now if it wasn't perhaps because she'd been the OW and may have had abiding resentment from that time? (Though, interestingly, it was the child who brought them together, and she genuinely did love the child, long before she got involved with the father.)

It does seem likely that resentment will grow toward the family as a whole as the married man resists the OW's desire for him to divorce his wife. After all, the family is her greatest obstacle.

[OWoman]

It does seem likely that resentment will grow toward the family as a whole as the married man resists the OW's desire for him to divorce his wife. After all, the family is her greatest obstacle.

 

If that were the case, no MM would ever leave. Rather, I'd say it was the MM's vision of the family that was her greatest obstacle. An MM who cannot see a bi-nuclear family as being happy and healthy - or who cannot see himself as part-time parent being adequate, or who cannot conceive of himself as the main custodial parent with the W just having visitation - will struggle to imagine life after splitting, and will be less likely to action it.

 

On the other hand, a MM who can conceive (or who perhaps himself has experience) of split families that thrive, and part-time parents doing a great job, will find it easier. Certainly seeing how well-adjusted, likeable and happy my kids were (far more than his own) helped my MM to realise that the married unit was not necessarily the best option for kids, and made the leaving easier for him.

[GPFan]

If that were the case, no MM would ever leave. Rather, I'd say it was the MM's vision of the family that was her greatest obstacle. An MM who cannot see a bi-nuclear family as being happy and healthy - or who cannot see himself as part-time parent being adequate, or who cannot conceive of himself as the main custodial parent with the W just having visitation - will struggle to imagine life after splitting, and will be less likely to action it.

 

On the other hand, a MM who can conceive (or who perhaps himself has experience) of split families that thrive, and part-time parents doing a great job, will find it easier. Certainly seeing how well-adjusted, likeable and happy my kids were (far more than his own) helped my MM to realise that the married unit was not necessarily the best option for kids, and made the leaving easier for him.

You are, of course, correct. It is all about perception, isn't it?

 

However I don't think most OWs hear, It is my perception that...

Rather they are regaled with the 'facts' of the man's life. Now someone like you could take these statements of 'facts' and interpret them but most people were never taught (and don't possess) these skills.

 

A pet peeve of mine is that young people aren't taught, as part of the standard curriculum, the basics of human interaction and psychology before they reach their dating years. However this is a topic for another thread.

[White Flower]

You are, of course, correct. It is all about perception, isn't it?

 

However I don't think most OWs hear, It is my perception that...

 

Rather they are regaled with the 'facts' of the man's life. Now someone like you could take these statements of 'facts' and interpret them but most people were never taught (and don't possess) these skills.

 

A pet peeve of mine is that young people aren't taught, as part of the standard curriculum, the basics of human interaction and psychology before they reach their dating years. However this is a topic for another thread.

GPFan, you should start a new thread; I think it would be interesting. And I agree with the idea that psychology as well as communication should be taught early on, perhaps middle school.

[OWoman]

GPFan, you should start a new thread; I think it would be interesting. And I agree with the idea that psychology as well as communication should be taught early on, perhaps middle school.

 

Isn't that kind of stuff supposed to be part of "Life Skills"? I've no idea, long time since I've been near a school. In my day it was "Guidance", which was all about not succumbing to peer pressure and feeling obliged to have a beer when you really wanted a Coke. (This at an age when "everyone" was drinking tequila and smoking ganja, and anyone opting for a beer would have been considered wussy!)

 

Sorry for the t/j...

[silktricks]

In most cases, we "inserted ourselves" because we were INVITED by the MM.

 

My point is, all this has absolutely NOTHING to do with the W, in our minds. It is certainly different from HER perspective, and from the wonderful magical mystery MM in the middle. But we OW's aren't privy to all that. We're not the ones who married the guy!!

 

If it truly has nothing to do with the wife in your mind, then why are you assuming that the wife is angry due to sexual jealousy? I can say without a speck of a doubt that had nothing to do with my anger.

 

A large number of OW who post on this site show bitter anger and resentment towards BS - in particular BS who have managed to fix their marriages. Is that sexual jealousy?? I doubt it.

[OpenBook]

If it truly has nothing to do with the wife in your mind, then why are you assuming that the wife is angry due to sexual jealousy?

 

I based my premise partly on the BS's (mostly female) who frequent the OM/OW forum apparently for the sole purpose of bashing and condemning the OW. As I explained in my opening post, I can think of no other reason why they would waste their time and energy, other than sexual jealousy.

 

The typical OW has no such focus, good or bad, on the BS in return. The BS is usually an unknown quantity.

 

A large number of OW who post on this site show bitter anger and resentment towards BS - in particular BS who have managed to fix their marriages. Is that sexual jealousy?? I doubt it.

 

I myself have been guilty of this deplorable behavior in the past. But I have never seen a "large number of OW" show bitterness toward BS's here, unless they've been attacked by them first. For the most part, I've seen nothing but supportive posts from the OW on the Marriage or Infidelity forums, if they've chimed in at all.

[Untouchable_Fire]

I based my premise partly on the BS's (mostly female) who frequent the OM/OW forum apparently for the sole purpose of bashing and condemning the OW. As I explained in my opening post, I can think of no other reason why they would waste their time and energy, other than sexual jealousy.

 

The typical OW has no such focus, good or bad, on the BS in return. The BS is usually an unknown quantity.

 

I myself have been guilty of this deplorable behavior in the past. But I have never seen a "large number of OW" show bitterness toward BS's here, unless they've been attacked by them first. For the most part, I've seen nothing but supportive posts from the OW on the Marriage or Infidelity forums, if they've chimed in at all.

 

I would not call it sexual jealousy. I think it has more to do with undirected anger, and stereotyping. They blame the OW more than the H, then direct that anger towards someone who seems similar. Just my opinion though.

[Owl]

 

1. I do not understand why so many BS's put such a laser focus on the OW, especially a happy OW. It seems to me to be such a big waste of energy on the BS's part, that could be so much more productively applied elsewhere to improve their own life situations.

 

2. It is a devastating and traumatic experience to be betrayed by someone you love. Why would you dwell on the environmental factors around it (the OW), instead of focusing on (not to mention assigning the blame to) where it belongs - on the CH?

 

3. Or focusing on yourself, making improvements where needed so that this is less likely to happen again? Or better yet, moving on to a better life? Why stay stuck in all that drama and pain?

 

4. I'm beginning to think the reason is sexual jealousy. I have seen so many wives who have let themselves go - gained weight, not stayed in shape, cut their hair to military-man-style short - and put absolutely no effort into making their physical appearance sexually desirable to any man, let alone their H. And then they wonder why their H's stray??

 

I know I'm going to hear "sex isn't the most important thing in a M," "it's a shallow way to look at it strictly from the sexual standpoint," blah blah blah. But let's face it, ladies. It is an undeniable fact that men are extremely sexual beings, and that (as far as their interaction with women goes) sex is a (if not THE) top priority and motivating factor for them. So if you claim that you love your H and want to make him happy, why would you deny him this ultimate fulfillment (in his own mind, anyway)?

 

Am I wrong?? Help me understand!!

 

1. When the affair is discovered, the very first step that a BS does is fight to end the affair. That means ending contact between the WS and the OM/OW. So tons of focus is placed on OM/OW...and getting them removed from the equation. Its simple. Focus on the OW/OM really at first is centered around this fact. Later focus has to do with the BS recovering personally from the trauma caused by the affair. I'll cover that more in a few.

 

2. Again, the FIRST step is to focus on ending the affair. Pressure is put on the WS to do so. Additionally, if the intent of the BS is to reconcile the marriage, they (often instinctively) know that the WS is not willing to 'accept the blame' right away. I clearly saw this in my wife during her affair. So the attention remains on the OW/OM at this time. Given the depth of the devestation and trauma, its hardly surprising that SOMEONE has to be "blamed" for the pain the BS feels...and since the WS isn't going to accept that blame (nor can the BS "focus" on the WS until after recovery is well underway)...who gets blamed? Focus on the WS comes later, after they've truly started to invest in the recovery of the marriage, and are getting to a mindset where they can begin to accept that blame.

 

3. You'll find that most BS's DO start to focus on where they can improve their side of things almost immediately upon learning about the affair. Its typically one of the first steps they make.

 

As far as staying "staying stuck in all that drama and pain"...have you ever dealt with people in trauma before? This is NORMAL. To a degree, its part of the recovery. A BS wants to know the full scope of the affair (usually, some don't) in order to have a clear understanding of what it is that they're forgiving. There is a whole piece of their lives...a severly traumatizing piece, mind you...that they were the ONLY ones kept in the dark about. They were lied to and deceived about the whole thing. Remember too, that the biggest source of pain for most BS's is the LIES AND DECEPTIONS. They need to know that they're getting the full truth...and they're asking that from the one person who lied to them to begin with. So they go over and over the story in their minds, looking for holes, asking for clarifications...until they FINALLY become convinced that they know the truth well enough to begin trusting that person who betrayed them again.

 

4. This is pure assumption on your part, with no real basis. Not all affairs have anything to do with sex...but the BS's take the same identical processes as I've outlined above. My case is a good example of that...my wife never got to meet OM face to face...yet I went through the same steps in trying to process myself and my marriage through recovering from this massive emotional trauma.

 

Sex isn't the basis for all affairs. Many (most?) are far more tied up in the emotions than they are in the sex. Its a major part of most affairs, I'll grant you. But you'll find that the BS's are as devestated at the idea of their spouse "falling in love" with someone else as they are that their WS "slept" with someone else.

[Owl]

I based my premise partly on the BS's (mostly female) who frequent the OM/OW forum apparently for the sole purpose of bashing and condemning the OW. As I explained in my opening post, I can think of no other reason why they would waste their time and energy, other than sexual jealousy.

 

The typical OW has no such focus, good or bad, on the BS in return. The BS is usually an unknown quantity.

 

 

 

I myself have been guilty of this deplorable behavior in the past. But I have never seen a "large number of OW" show bitterness toward BS's here, unless they've been attacked by them first. For the most part, I've seen nothing but supportive posts from the OW on the Marriage or Infidelity forums, if they've chimed in at all.

 

OK, just saw this.

 

There are a couple of reasons you see BS's "bash" OW here. One may well be that they are telling the OW here what they'd REALLY like to be telling the OW in their OWN situation. Most of the time, there is no further contact with that person...and so they can't vent that anger/frustration/pain out on that OW...so they turn to the only OW they CAN vent on...those that come here.

 

I'd also suggest that some of it isn't bashing (although some certainly is). Some of it really is an attempt to get the OW to stop dehumanizing the person that they're hurting in their own situation. Most of the OW/OM I've seen here have a "view" of the BS in their situation...and that view is often NOT one as seeing the BS as a person, but as a title. "The woman who wouldn't sleep with her H", or "Her H's abuser"...they don't WANT to see the BS as a person, as a human...because then they have to acknowledge that what they're doing is causing ANOTHER HUMAN BEING severe emotional trauma...with the goal of taking that person's spouse from them.

 

I often post my side of things here with the intent to let the OW/OM see what its like through a BS's eyes and situation. I WANT them to understand the full ramifications of their choices...even if they don't want to do so. Because "support" in my viewpoint means helping them make choices that help EVERYONE in their situation out...not just get them what they want.

 

I'd add that I personally feel that there is probably about an equal volume of "bashing" going both ways...BS to OW/OM, or OW/OM to BS. I've been the recipient of any number of 'bashing' posts myself.

[angie2443]

OK, just saw this.

 

There are a couple of reasons you see BS's "bash" OW here. One may well be that they are telling the OW here what they'd REALLY like to be telling the OW in their OWN situation. Most of the time, there is no further contact with that person...and so they can't vent that anger/frustration/pain out on that OW...so they turn to the only OW they CAN vent on...those that come here.

 

I'd also suggest that some of it isn't bashing (although some certainly is). Some of it really is an attempt to get the OW to stop dehumanizing the person that they're hurting in their own situation. Most of the OW/OM I've seen here have a "view" of the BS in their situation...and that view is often NOT one as seeing the BS as a person, but as a title. "The woman who wouldn't sleep with her H", or "Her H's abuser"...they don't WANT to see the BS as a person, as a human...because then they have to acknowledge that what they're doing is causing ANOTHER HUMAN BEING severe emotional trauma...with the goal of taking that person's spouse from them.

 

I often post my side of things here with the intent to let the OW/OM see what its like through a BS's eyes and situation. I WANT them to understand the full ramifications of their choices...even if they don't want to do so. Because "support" in my viewpoint means helping them make choices that help EVERYONE in their situation out...not just get them what they want.

 

I'd add that I personally feel that there is probably about an equal volume of "bashing" going both ways...BS to OW/OM, or OW/OM to BS. I've been the recipient of any number of 'bashing' posts myself.

 

Excellent post! I couldn't have said it better.

[OpenBook]

There are a couple of reasons you see BS's "bash" OW here. One may well be that they are telling the OW here what they'd REALLY like to be telling the OW in their OWN situation. Most of the time, there is no further contact with that person...and so they can't vent that anger/frustration/pain out on that OW...so they turn to the only OW they CAN vent on...those that come here.

 

Then they would do well to reread the rules and guidelines of the OM/OW forum. This is NOT a place they can use as their own personal punching bag. People come to this site for HELP -- not to be bashed by some kook out there who has to take out their own personal problems on SOMEBODY.

[whichwayisup]

There are a couple of reasons you see BS's "bash" OW here. One may well be that they are telling the OW here what they'd REALLY like to be telling the OW in their OWN situation. Most of the time, there is no further contact with that person...and so they can't vent that anger/frustration/pain out on that OW...so they turn to the only OW they CAN vent on...those that come here.

 

 

Then they would do well to reread the rules and guidelines of the OM/OW forum. This is NOT a place they can use as their own personal punching bag. People come to this site for HELP -- not to be bashed by some kook out there who has to take out their own personal problems on SOMEBODY.

 

Some OW are guilty of doing the same the to a BS, exactly what Owl decribed what some BS does to an OW. Everyone needs to remember that there are REAL human beings behind the screen, with feelings. Some people around here seem to forget that and focus on making someone purposely feel like crap.

[Owl]

I agree with WWIU...

 

I'd heartily suggest that BOTH SIDES could stand to reread the rules and guidelines.

 

I've seen plenty of attacks from both sides of the fence. I personally think the "amount" is about 50/50.

[Mino]

1. When the affair is discovered, the very first step that a BS does is fight to end the affair. That means ending contact between the WS and the OM/OW. So tons of focus is placed on OM/OW...and getting them removed from the equation. Its simple. Focus on the OW/OM really at first is centered around this fact. Later focus has to do with the BS recovering personally from the trauma caused by the affair. I'll cover that more in a few.

 

2. Again, the FIRST step is to focus on ending the affair. Pressure is put on the WS to do so. Additionally, if the intent of the BS is to reconcile the marriage, they (often instinctively) know that the WS is not willing to 'accept the blame' right away. I clearly saw this in my wife during her affair. So the attention remains on the OW/OM at this time. Given the depth of the devestation and trauma, its hardly surprising that SOMEONE has to be "blamed" for the pain the BS feels...and since the WS isn't going to accept that blame (nor can the BS "focus" on the WS until after recovery is well underway)...who gets blamed? Focus on the WS comes later, after they've truly started to invest in the recovery of the marriage, and are getting to a mindset where they can begin to accept that blame.

 

3. You'll find that most BS's DO start to focus on where they can improve their side of things almost immediately upon learning about the affair. Its typically one of the first steps they make.

 

As far as staying "staying stuck in all that drama and pain"...have you ever dealt with people in trauma before? This is NORMAL. To a degree, its part of the recovery. A BS wants to know the full scope of the affair (usually, some don't) in order to have a clear understanding of what it is that they're forgiving. There is a whole piece of their lives...a severly traumatizing piece, mind you...that they were the ONLY ones kept in the dark about. They were lied to and deceived about the whole thing. Remember too, that the biggest source of pain for most BS's is the LIES AND DECEPTIONS. They need to know that they're getting the full truth...and they're asking that from the one person who lied to them to begin with. So they go over and over the story in their minds, looking for holes, asking for clarifications...until they FINALLY become convinced that they know the truth well enough to begin trusting that person who betrayed them again.

 

4. This is pure assumption on your part, with no real basis. Not all affairs have anything to do with sex...but the BS's take the same identical processes as I've outlined above. My case is a good example of that...my wife never got to meet OM face to face...yet I went through the same steps in trying to process myself and my marriage through recovering from this massive emotional trauma.

 

Sex isn't the basis for all affairs. Many (most?) are far more tied up in the emotions than they are in the sex. Its a major part of most affairs, I'll grant you. But you'll find that the BS's are as devestated at the idea of their spouse "falling in love" with someone else as they are that their WS "slept" with someone else.

Owl you say the bs first response would be to fight for their M and try to get the A stopped.. I think that would be normal. But in my case, the bs, went on ignor, never questions, cant say she is in denial, because she has made several snide remarks about her husband to our co-workers. Thats about it. She is cordial at home, not nasty. But is fully aware that the A is going on, by him coming home late, being gone for hours on his day off, everynight on computer., and even though our one conversation. She just ignors and leads her life as nothing is going on.... What do you think of that? This has been going on already years. I couldnt suck all that in, I would have exploded by now. wouldnt you think?

[whichwayisup]

But in my case, the bs, went on ignor, never questions, cant say she is in denial, because she has made several snide remarks about her husband to our co-workers. Thats about it. She is cordial at home, not nasty. But is fully aware that the A is going on, by him coming home late, being gone for hours on his day off, everynight on computer., and even though our one conversation. She just ignors and leads her life as nothing is going on.... What do you think of that? This has been going on already years. I couldnt suck all that in, I would have exploded by now. wouldnt you think?

 

Maybe she doesn't care and is happy enough just having companionship and wants to keep her life as it is. Or maybe she has an OM on the side as well.

 

Why is he still choosing to stay married, that's the thing? She knows and isn't doing anything about it - Why is your MM still there?

[silktricks]

Then they would do well to reread the rules and guidelines of the OM/OW forum. This is NOT a place they can use as their own personal punching bag. People come to this site for HELP -- not to be bashed by some kook out there who has to take out their own personal problems on SOMEBODY.

 

LS is here for help, but let's be honest... Whenever ANYONE (OP or BS) has a certain point of view - disagreement with that point of view can feel like bashing - whether that was the intent of the poster or not.

 

When a person is in pain, they have a lot invested in their point of view. At times it can feel like that is the ONLY thing left to hold onto. Then along comes someone who not only disagrees with you, but is also a person that can be indirectly connected to the pain in your life.

 

Of course people (both OP and BS) feel they are being bashed - even when that is not the case from the poster's point of view. Often, I think, the poster feels they are simply and solely defending themselves and their own point of view.

 

But, like Owl, I think the bashing is very even. Sometimes it sways one way, sometimes the other, but overall - pretty much 50/50.

[bentnotbroken]

Maybe she doesn't care and is happy enough just having companionship and wants to keep her life as it is. Or maybe she has an OM on the side as well.

 

Why is he still choosing to stay married, that's the thing? She knows and isn't doing anything about it - Why is your MM still there?

 

 

Exactly, why is he there?

[Mino]

If you read my other post you see they WILL be going to MC to TALK about this. ( my suggestion) There is a child, and she does use the guilt factor when he makes an attempt. She does not work outside the home, But as long as he come home at night, payes the bills, she fine.

[whichwayisup]

She does not work outside the home,

 

Because she is the parent who is home with their child. He comes and goes whenever he pleases, evenings, weekends, nights... Remember too, you're only hearing HIS side of things.

 

When he makes an attempt to leave, she guilts him, but he is enabling her behaviour by staying. Whether or not she IS or ISN'T guilting him, if he was truly unhappy and wanted out of the marriage, he would just divorce and work out custody arrangements. People do this all the time, and make it work. OW or not, if a marriage is over, it's over and nothing is going to save it.

[bentnotbroken]

WWIU, is right. You only hear one side. I would always wonder what would happen if the op and the bs actually sat down and discussed all the things that the ws and "his friends and family" have said, see if the stories match up.

[OWoman]

There are a couple of reasons you see BS's "bash" OW here. One may well be that they are telling the OW here what they'd REALLY like to be telling the OW in their OWN situation. Most of the time, there is no further contact with that person...and so they can't vent that anger/frustration/pain out on that OW...so they turn to the only OW they CAN vent on...those that come here.

 

Bashing from BSs I can understand, at least cognitively - even if I don't endorse it; but why some kids just out of nappies feel the need to climb on the bashing bandwagon is beyond me. Are they desperate for acceptance? Are they that insecure that the only way they can feel better about themselves is by taking pot shots at others? It just shows up their total lack of life experience and their complete absence of an imagination, moral or otherwise, and merely adds to the white noise surrounding the useful contributions from thinking participants.

 

Thing is, Owl, a reasoned and sober response like yours invites engagement and helps generate understanding, instead of shutting down communication and polarising people so that thread dissolve, one after the next, into pointless slanging matches. But I guess not everyone is mature enough to realise that?

[angie2443]

Owl you say the bs first response would be to fight for their M and try to get the A stopped.. I think that would be normal. But in my case, the bs, went on ignor, never questions, cant say she is in denial, because she has made several snide remarks about her husband to our co-workers. Thats about it. She is cordial at home, not nasty. But is fully aware that the A is going on, by him coming home late, being gone for hours on his day off, everynight on computer., and even though our one conversation. She just ignors and leads her life as nothing is going on.... What do you think of that? This has been going on already years. I couldnt suck all that in, I would have exploded by now. wouldnt you think?

 

Unless you're a fly on the wall when MM and wife are at home, or you've had heart to heart talks with the wife, you do not know that she is ignoring things or what is going on inside her head or heart. You're making assumptions on what MM sais.

[whichwayisup]

even if I don't endorse it; but why some kids just out of nappies feel the need to climb on the bashing bandwagon is beyond me. Are they desperate for acceptance? Are they that insecure that the only way they can feel better about themselves is by taking pot shots at others? It just shows up their total lack of life experience and their complete absence of an imagination, moral or otherwise, and merely adds to the white noise surrounding the useful contributions from thinking participants.

 

Because some people just need to be right, or maybe they are miserable and it makes them feel better to poop on someone else, try to make them feel bad. Another part of it is ego and I've seen this on a regular basis all over LS, not only in this section. Sometimes too, someone reacts out of pure emotion and isn't thinking and is reacting to their own pain - And then from there, others jump on and fuel the fire.

[OWoman]

Because she is the parent who is home with their child. He comes and goes whenever he pleases, evenings, weekends, nights...

 

I have a HUGE amount of sympathy for anyone stuck at home with a child all day. Working outside the home, you are exposed to all sorts of interactions that both feed and moderate you, you get acknowledgment and recognition for performing well and your intellect and senses are stimulted, your social standing reinforced and your self-esteem boosted. At home, you're subjected to a never-ending stream of demands, against which you can rarely perform adequately never mind competently (a small baby with colic is an extreme example) and absolutely no acknowledgment because there is no audience. (Maybe years later, someone congratulates you on how well your child has turned out - who can wait that long??)

 

I could never be a SAHM and have massive respect for women who do manage.