Why all the focus on the OW - is it sexual jealousy?

[White Flower]

Good clarification, and done with language deliberately phrased to be non-provoking. Makes it much easier to provide an intelligent response to...thank you, WF.

 

I agree with what you say. But I want to offer some "food for thought" for you.

 

I hear many OW/OM here say that if there was nothing wrong in the marriage, the WS wouldn't be willing to stray. And in many cases, that could well be the case.

 

But...if the "something wrong" isn't in the marriage...if its IN THE WS to begin with...

 

If its not the marital situation, but a mindset or personality characteristic or even a temporary emotional trouble (i.e...depression) that is WITHIN THE WS...

 

Where does that fit in here? MY case is a primary example of what I'm pointing out. Our marriage was GREAT for 16+ years. Then my wife busted an ankle, was unable to move around much, and became depressed when she lost her job as a result. During this time, she became addicted to online gaming...partially as a response to depression. The online gaming, and her depression...combined...led to the marital strain, and eventually to her affair.

 

Our marriage wasn't the "source" of the problem. I wasn't doing anything wrong to create the situation.

 

Now...OM didn't "steal her away". But...he DID take advantage of a temporary condition that made my wife vulnerable. I'm not attacking him here...he fell in love with the same things in my wife that I did. I understand his motivations.

 

 

 

But there's this huge assumption here that the BS created, or even participated in the situation that led to their spouse choosing to have an affair. SOMETIMES, there is.

 

If the OM hadn't come along in my case...my wife would have likely been forced to recognize the source of the problems (her untreated depression and gaming addiction) through another means. Likely one that would have been far less traumatic than the affair.

 

And again...I've not met anyone who felt that the affair was the ONLY issue that had to be dealt with, and that everything would be wonderful once the OW/OM was out of the picture. But the reason for the FOCUS on the OW/OM is often because they know that there's no hope to recover at all while they remain in the picture.

 

I have to 'semi' agree with LF. Its interesting to note those who respond only in emotional, provoking ways, and those who respond in thoughtful ways designed to discuss, rarther than attack or elicit an emotional response.

Great post and I agree on all accounts. Oftentimes the WS has an internal issue that has nothing whatsoever to do with how his/her spouse behaves. BTW, I commend you highly for not being the typical 'cut her a$$ off for betraying you' kind of guy. You recognized what she was going through and helped her to see what her depression was causing. Kudos for you and I'm sure she loves you deeply for that. I wish Bent had a H like that who instead blamed her for her depression and went and had the A.

 

You are even gracious enough to not attack the OM because you know how easy it would be to fall in love with your W. She needs to worship you now;).

 

You are right about the emotional provocations. I think we build our defenses because we come on here, spill our hearts out, then get flamed and judged when we're looking for clarification. The flaming gets in the way of our progress and slows down the very action that the flamers want in us. I try not to partake in it, but I'm not perfect...*shrug and sigh*

 

I often wonder about the BS and their connection with the idea that the OW/OM 'stole' their spouse. They might know deep down that they did nothing wrong in the M and may not have been able to focus on the idea that you posted about being that there is something intrinsically wrong with the WS. Focusing on the 'persoanality characteristic' of the WS would help them to see that the OP did not 'steel them away'. There was something wrong with the WS and would have done it anyway.

[neverendingsaga]

Great post and I agree on all accounts. Oftentimes the WS has an internal issue that has nothing whatsoever to do with how his/her spouse behaves. BTW, I commend you highly for not being the typical 'cut her a$$ off for betraying you' kind of guy. You recognized what she was going through and helped her to see what her depression was causing. Kudos for you and I'm sure she loves you deeply for that. I wish Bent had a H like that who instead blamed her for her depression and went and had the A.

 

You are even gracious enough to not attack the OM because you know how easy it would be to fall in love with your W. She needs to worship you now;).

 

You are right about the emotional provocations. I think we build our defenses because we come on here, spill our hearts out, then get flamed and judged when we're looking for clarification. The flaming gets in the way of our progress and slows down the very action that the flamers want in us. I try not to partake in it, but I'm not perfect...*shrug and sigh*

 

I often wonder about the BS and their connection with the idea that the OW/OM 'stole' their spouse. They might know deep down that they did nothing wrong in the M and may not have been able to focus on the idea that you posted about being that there is something intrinsically wrong with the WS. Focusing on the 'persoanality characteristic' of the WS would help them to see that the OP did not 'steel them away'. There was something wrong with the WS and would have done it anyway.

 

i agree that often theres something wrong w/ the person who cheats, not the marriage. sometimes ppl are serial cheaters or will just continue to cheat no matter what R they're in, always blaming it on the R theyre in or on there partner (they dont do ____ to make/ keep me happy) instead of looking within to find out why theyre incapable of being faithful. actually i think some ppl are just not capable of that & if so fine, but dont LIE & promise comittment but then cheat... over & over & over.

 

in owls W's case it sounds like someone who had something internally wrong but who made bad choices instead of fixing it. he saw that & helped her fix it. she isnt a serial cheater, just a person who made a bad decision, & now there M is prolly even better. but to say something was wrong w/ there M that 'made' or even 'allowed' her to cheat would be incorrect. it was something wrong inside HER & im really glad its fixed now & that theyre happy. i think thats why owl is always so nice even when other ppl are rude, & his advice is so good. he is someone who really looks at all sides of the issues but also believes there is right & wrong & believes in forgiveness. i wanna be like owl when i grow up...

[White Flower]

Thank-you for this OWL. I was just beginning to formulate a response very similar to yours, and then lo and behold, it was here.

 

This is a very important point - possibly even more important for BS to read than for OW.

 

Of course what both LF and WF are saying has validity - the affair is a choice, and no person can be "stolen" but people can be swayed, especially people who are in temporary emotional trouble.

 

Oft times people who are depressed can get into the thought pattern that any change will improve their feelings and often will blame their depression on their partner. If the true source of the depression is resolved (unless of course it is the partner ) the marriage can happily go on. If, however, during the depth of the depression an affair takes place, all kinds of other forces are thrown into the mix.

Another great post;)

 

The 'temporary emotional trouble' is another great point. One of the reasons I trusted my exMM was that he'd been married a very long time (don't want to give TMI so won't put the # of years) and I knew the issues were not temporary. It made me believe that I was not moving in on a short window of opportunity. Not that I ever thought I'd get him to myself, but somehow felt our R would be more stable because of it.

[White Flower]

in owls W's case it sounds like someone who had something internally wrong but who made bad choices instead of fixing it. he saw that & helped her fix it. she isnt a serial cheater, just a person who made a bad decision, & now there M is prolly even better. but to say something was wrong w/ there M that 'made' or even 'allowed' her to cheat would be incorrect. it was something wrong inside HER & im really glad its fixed now & that theyre happy. i think thats why owl is always so nice even when other ppl are rude, & his advice is so good. he is someone who really looks at all sides of the issues but also believes there is right & wrong & believes in forgiveness. i wanna be like owl when i grow up...

I want a H like OWL! I was depressed for many years and instead of getting help my H would just belittle me. BTW, my doctor said my depression came from being overwhelmed by too much stress and being overworked. That is what happens oftentimes to women who marry the narcissistic mama's boy. He created so much of the work that overwhelmed me and did nothing (and I mean nothing) to help me, then blamed me for everything not being perfect.

[neverendingsaga]

I want a H like OWL! I was depressed for many years and instead of getting help my H would just belittle me. BTW, my doctor said my depression came from being overwhelmed by too much stress and being overworked. That is what happens oftentimes to women who marry the narcissistic mama's boy. He created so much of the work that overwhelmed me and did nothing (and I mean nothing) to help me, then blamed me for everything not being perfect.

 

your divorcing his sorry butt right? i hope so- you deserve a H like owl! im sure you'll find one. im sorry that your H did that to you for so long, it would suck to be in a M like that.

[Owl]

i wanna be like owl when i grow up...

 

See...now HERE is a truly wise person!!!

 

NOT because they want to be like me, however...

 

But because they set their goals and standards very, very low...easily obtainable, and able to see immediate improvements with almost no effort!!!

[Owl]

I want a H like OWL!

 

Thank you very much for the compliment, WF.

 

I think every woman deserves a H like me!

 

Sorry ladies...only one of me. They broke the mold...and I'm TAKEN!!!

[White Flower]

your divorcing his sorry butt right? i hope so- you deserve a H like owl! im sure you'll find one. im sorry that your H did that to you for so long, it would suck to be in a M like that.

Oh yes! I am working on it as we speak. To stay with him would be losing my dignity forever. It took a very long time to get it back and I ain't ever letting go of it again!

 

And OWL, don't be so modest!

[Lookingforward]

I think perhaps there is a 'disconnect' with my style of writing and how it is perceived - I do not use 'provocative' language deliberately - I just post what I think/feel - if that is SEEN as being provocative, then I'm sorry.

 

Blame it on being brought up not to pussyfoot around issues........

[White Flower]

Thank you very much for the compliment, WF.

 

I think every woman deserves a H like me!

 

Sorry ladies...only one of me. They broke the mold...and I'm TAKEN!!!

Nevermind about that remark about modesty...

[bentnotbroken]

I want a H like OWL! I was depressed for many years and instead of getting help my H would just belittle me. BTW, my doctor said my depression came from being overwhelmed by too much stress and being overworked. That is what happens oftentimes to women who marry the narcissistic mama's boy. He created so much of the work that overwhelmed me and did nothing (and I mean nothing) to help me, then blamed me for everything not being perfect.

 

One of Mr. Messy's brothers I persume.

[White Flower]

I think perhaps there is a 'disconnect' with my style of writing and how it is perceived - I do not use 'provocative' language deliberately - I just post what I think/feel - if that is SEEN as being provocative, then I'm sorry.

 

Blame it on being brought up not to pussyfoot around issues........

Hey, some ppl tell it like it is;). I tend to be wordy and sometimes I get called 'ambiguous' for it. We can't always win.

 

But thank God we're all different. That's what makes the world go round.

[White Flower]

One of Mr. Messy's brothers I persume.

You know it, sweetheart. That makes us sisters-in-law.

[bentnotbroken]

You know it, sweetheart. That makes us sisters-in-law.

 

 

 

:lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao:

[OWoman]

So very true. Fantasizing that someone else is your perfect match in all ways is easy when you don't see the person. There's nothing real to hold onto.

 

Hmm - I've found quite the reverse. I've studied a variety of online communities and found that people feel a lot freer to disclose things and to pour their souls out behind the pseudonymity of a username, than they would to a bunch of people they have to work with, socialise with, or whatever.

 

I've also found that my deepest friendships / Rs or professional Rs have been those that have involved significant online communication. And in an office context, where so many policies militate against anything "untoward" happening between colleagues, so many people are turning to online comms even with their colleagues in the office next door, as the only space they can really "be themselves" in.

[OWoman]

I think perhaps there is a 'disconnect' with my style of writing and how it is perceived - I do not use 'provocative' language deliberately - I just post what I think/feel - if that is SEEN as being provocative, then I'm sorry.

 

Blame it on being brought up not to pussyfoot around issues........

 

Maybe it's just us colonials are used to "frontier" lifestyles, so don't have the polished nuanced niceties of those in the North? :p

 

I've never found any of your posts provocative LF - funny, yes, and often bang on target, but nothing offensive or abrasive. Guess that says something about me, too?

[White Flower]

Hmm - I've found quite the reverse. I've studied a variety of online communities and found that people feel a lot freer to disclose things and to pour their souls out behind the pseudonymity of a username, than they would to a bunch of people they have to work with, socialise with, or whatever.

 

I've also found that my deepest friendships / Rs or professional Rs have been those that have involved significant online communication. And in an office context, where so many policies militate against anything "untoward" happening between colleagues, so many people are turning to online comms even with their colleagues in the office next door, as the only space they can really "be themselves" in.

Now this is exactly why I feel that MM fell so deeply for me. I allowed him to ask me anything and I would answer honestly and it blew him away. This is usually when the I love you's came out or the next time we met he would bring up that awesome conversation and then tell me he loved me in person.

 

Online and without eye contact one feels braver to let it all out. But since we would meet in person later we would keep that openness alive and connect even more deeply.

 

I often wonder if we ever did end up together if we should just keep an online conversation once a week from different bedrooms. Crazy as it sounds, it was some of the most fun we've ever had. It was risky, yet opened us up immensely. Maybe some of the MPs here could try it and get crazy with it. Why should they feel left out of something so awesome just because their M didn't start out that way? Interesting idea.

[White Flower]

Maybe it's just us colonials are used to "frontier" lifestyles, so don't have the polished nuanced niceties of those in the North? :p

 

I've never found any of your posts provocative LF - funny, yes, and often bang on target, but nothing offensive or abrasive. Guess that says something about me, too?

Offensive and abrasive? You OWoman? Never!

 

Just smart and on target.

[JackhammerGemma]

It is easier to put blame on the OW because IMO some women deep down don't want to believe their H or bf was the initiator. It's less painful to believe that this succubus woman came and stole him, ignoring the reality that he went willingly.

 

I speak from experience because I hate my now x-bf for cheating on me but I hate the OW more for existing in the first place. Doesn't make sense, I know, because they are both to blame. (I do not really blame myself at all-cheating is a pattern with him and I know in my heart I did everything I could and more to make him happy. No one makes anyone cheat, you can always walk away.)

 

So I don't know if it's so much sexual jealousy as much as not wanting to accept that the H or bf is equally as responsible as the OW.

[Lookingforward]

Maybe it's just us colonials are used to "frontier" lifestyles, so don't have the polished nuanced niceties of those in the North? :p

 

I've never found any of your posts provocative LF - funny, yes, and often bang on target, but nothing offensive or abrasive. Guess that says something about me, too?

 

 

LOL , could be (may be why I usually run around one infraction a month as well)

[Lookingforward]

It is easier to put blame on the OW because IMO some women deep down don't want to believe their H or bf was the initiator. It's less painful to believe that this succubus woman came and stole him, ignoring the reality that he went willingly.

 

I speak from experience because I hate my now x-bf for cheating on me but I hate the OW more for existing in the first place. Doesn't make sense, I know, because they are both to blame. (I do not really blame myself at all-cheating is a pattern with him and I know in my heart I did everything I could and more to make him happy. No one makes anyone cheat, you can always walk away.)

 

So I don't know if it's so much sexual jealousy as much as not wanting to accept that the H or bf is equally as responsible as the OW.

 

Stands to reason that if there has to be blame apportioned then it's far easier to blame external sources than examine the M sometimes (not saying always)

[bentnotbroken]

Stands to reason that if there has to be blame apportioned then it's far easier to blame external sources than examine the M sometimes (not saying always)

 

 

True, true.

[OWoman]

It is easier to put blame on the OW because IMO some women deep down don't want to believe their H or bf was the initiator. It's less painful to believe that this succubus woman came and stole him, ignoring the reality that he went willingly.

 

I speak from experience because I hate my now x-bf for cheating on me but I hate the OW more for existing in the first place. Doesn't make sense, I know, because they are both to blame. (I do not really blame myself at all-cheating is a pattern with him and I know in my heart I did everything I could and more to make him happy. No one makes anyone cheat, you can always walk away.)

 

So I don't know if it's so much sexual jealousy as much as not wanting to accept that the H or bf is equally as responsible as the OW.

 

Haven't been to your thread in a while JG, so wasn't aware of that development. (((((hugs)))))

[OWoman]

Now this is exactly why I feel that MM fell so deeply for me. I allowed him to ask me anything and I would answer honestly and it blew him away. This is usually when the I love you's came out or the next time we met he would bring up that awesome conversation and then tell me he loved me in person.

 

Online and without eye contact one feels braver to let it all out. But since we would meet in person later we would keep that openness alive and connect even more deeply.

 

I often wonder if we ever did end up together if we should just keep an online conversation once a week from different bedrooms. Crazy as it sounds, it was some of the most fun we've ever had. It was risky, yet opened us up immensely. Maybe some of the MPs here could try it and get crazy with it. Why should they feel left out of something so awesome just because their M didn't start out that way? Interesting idea.

 

Well, you could always try it from work... or from a cell phone from a public place? There is a lot of frisson when one is sitting somewhere, all proper and demure, having a highly erotic conversation via SMS or Mxit or WAP with someone elsewhere. Airport arrivals halls are particularly intense...

[White Flower]

Well, you could always try it from work... or from a cell phone from a public place? There is a lot of frisson when one is sitting somewhere, all proper and demure, having a highly erotic conversation via SMS or Mxit or WAP with someone elsewhere. Airport arrivals halls are particularly intense...

You know, sometimes we would say the sexiest darn things during an IM and I wish I could just go and jump his bones. If he were in the other room I could have done that. But your ideas are good even if it the waiting period is prolonged because that can build up the excitement.