Why all the focus on the OW - is it sexual jealousy?

[OWoman]

You know, sometimes we would say the sexiest darn things during an IM and I wish I could just go and jump his bones. If he were in the other room I could have done that. But your ideas are good even if it the waiting period is prolonged because that can build up the excitement.

 

If he was, you'd have been doing that and not chatting on IM in the first place...

[White Flower]

If he was, you'd have been doing that and not chatting on IM in the first place...

Yes, but my point was that I would miss the IMing and try to have it one night a week so we could remember the fun and build up the passion.

[angie2443]

I couldn't get my H to read any of the books I bought or into more than a few counseling sessions. Every time a counselor pointed out that I might be in the right my H bolted. His pride was too great. I hope your H isn't as proud as mine in that regard. Hopefully, he'll become more understanding in hopes of keeping his M happy.

 

Thanks for the nice thoughts:).

 

 

Unfortuneatlly, this is where many of our problems stem from. In the beginning, I was walking on egg shells. I thought about every word that would come out of my mouth and tried very hard to make sure it wouldn't upset him, or make him feel that I didn't trust his judgement. I'm not the kind of person that has to win an arguement. In face, most times I'll back down if the arguement is going nowhere. However, you have to have some voice in a relationship, or your spirit starts to die. This was happening to me. Sounds dramatic, I know.

 

Were doing pretty good, but we still have a way to go. Maybe this is one of the reasons I'm still stuck here.

[White Flower]

Thanks for the nice thoughts:).

 

 

Unfortuneatlly, this is where many of our problems stem from. In the beginning, I was walking on egg shells. I thought about every word that would come out of my mouth and tried very hard to make sure it wouldn't upset him, or make him feel that I didn't trust his judgement. I'm not the kind of person that has to win an arguement. In face, most times I'll back down if the arguement is going nowhere. However, you have to have some voice in a relationship, or your spirit starts to die. This was happening to me. Sounds dramatic, I know.

 

Were doing pretty good, but we still have a way to go. Maybe this is one of the reasons I'm still stuck here.

Gosh angie, you sound so much like me when I was younger. And it only sounds dramatic because your H wants you to think it is. At least mine was like that. Don't let it continue or you will end up D'ed like me. Unless of course you'll find more happiness in divorce. I fought the idea for so long but now I finally see it is the only way. Good luck, hon.

[OpenBook]

I've never found any of your posts provocative LF - funny, yes, and often bang on target, but nothing offensive or abrasive. Guess that says something about me, too?

 

Hell, you're BOTH provocative. That's why I like ya's!! :bunny: Please don't change.

 

Like WF said, it takes all kinds. And I firmly believe that listening to ALL perspectives, even the ones that get under my fingernails (never happened with you guys!), is the path to wisdom and enlightenment. So keep it comin' at me!

 

...and as long as I don't end up LOOKING like the Buddha, I'll be OK...

 

But - ahem - I digress. Back on topic in my own freakin' thread:D:D ... I've been thinking about this "sexual jealousy" thing some more. I think it might have been a stupid question to ask. Of course a BS is not going to admit that she fears the OW is sexier than her!! But I know it's got to bug her that her H has chosen to direct his sexual energy to another female besides herself.

 

Taking it a step further... From everything I know about men, their sexual energy could mean a lot - or nothing at all. It's so hard to tell. So how much significance should a BS place on this "redirection" of sexual energy? It seems that the more focus the BS places on the OW, the more significant she makes her. Wouldn't it be more logical (and better for the M) to deem the OW as irrelevant to the M?? (This is herenow's theory, and I've always thought it made a lot of sense. Put the focus where it belongs, on the M!)

 

BTW, interesting point from Owl, Silk et al about the problem or flaw being within the WS, rather than the M or the BS. I've fought that concept many times on these boards ("How can 60+ percent of the population have a character flaw??!?"), but the way you guys wrote your thoughts on that subject (in a vulnerable emotional state, wrestling with problems of their own, etc.) has got me to thinking. I'm going to have to ponder on that one for awhile. Thanks for the valuable input.

[bentnotbroken]

Hell, you're BOTH provocative. That's why I like ya's!! :bunny: Please don't change.

 

Like WF said, it takes all kinds. And I firmly believe that listening to ALL perspectives, even the ones that get under my fingernails (never happened with you guys!), is the path to wisdom and enlightenment. So keep it comin' at me!

 

...and as long as I don't end up LOOKING like the Buddha, I'll be OK...

 

But - ahem - I digress. Back on topic in my own freakin' thread:D:D ... I've been thinking about this "sexual jealousy" thing some more. I think it might have been a stupid question to ask. Of course a BS is not going to admit that she fears the OW is sexier than her!! But I know it's got to bug her that her H has chosen to direct his sexual energy to another female besides herself.

 

Taking it a step further... From everything I know about men, their sexual energy could mean a lot - or nothing at all. It's so hard to tell. So how much significance should a BS place on this "redirection" of sexual energy? It seems that the more focus the BS places on the OW, the more significant she makes her. Wouldn't it be more logical (and better for the M) to deem the OW as irrelevant to the M?? (This is herenow's theory, and I've always thought it made a lot of sense. Put the focus where it belongs, on the M!)

 

BTW, interesting point from Owl, Silk et al about the problem or flaw being within the WS, rather than the M or the BS. I've fought that concept many times on these boards ("How can 60+ percent of the population have a character flaw??!?"), but the way you guys wrote your thoughts on that subject (in a vulnerable emotional state, wrestling with problems of their own, etc.) has got me to thinking. I'm going to have to ponder on that one for awhile. Thanks for the valuable input.

 

 

 

I don't know if all BS don't feel sexual jealousy. I think some probably do. But there are some who are secure enough in who they are sexually to be confident. Mr. Messy wasn't my first, nor my only. He was just my last. But we are constantly told it wasn't about the sex, so how could I be jealous. But once you ponder it a little longer, I would like to know what you have come up with, if you don't mind.

[OpenBook]

I don't know if all BS don't feel sexual jealousy. I think some probably do. But there are some who are secure enough in who they are sexually to be confident. Mr. Messy wasn't my first, nor my only. He was just my last. But we are constantly told it wasn't about the sex, so how could I be jealous. But once you ponder it a little longer, I would like to know what you have come up with, if you don't mind.

 

Oh, it's ALWAYS about the sex, for a man!

[bentnotbroken]

Oh, it's ALWAYS about the sex, for a man!

 

 

So true:laugh: otherwise what would their little winkies's do?

[OpenBook]

So true:laugh: otherwise what would their little winkies's do?

 

I don't even want to contemplate that, bent.

[whichwayisup]

otherwise what would their little winkies's do?

 

Everyone would have to run, seek shelter and hide! lol

[silktricks]

Hmm - I've found quite the reverse. I've studied a variety of online communities and found that people feel a lot freer to disclose things and to pour their souls out behind the pseudonymity of a username, than they would to a bunch of people they have to work with, socialise with, or whatever.

 

I agree that this is true, however, it isn't really what I was talking about. If 2 people begin to communicate with some exclusivity on-line, they will talk about themselves and their situations. Sometimes attractions grow up out of those communications. The attraction is based on words typed on a computer. The two people involved in the attraction are easily caught up in a fantasy of what they want the other person to be, and what the other person wants them to believe they are.

 

A lot of times once the two people actually meet up the fantasy soon blows away. (Sometimes it doesn't though )

[D-Lish]

But - ahem - I digress. Back on topic in my own freakin' thread:D:D ... I've been thinking about this "sexual jealousy" thing some more. I think it might have been a stupid question to ask. Of course a BS is not going to admit that she fears the OW is sexier than her!! But I know it's got to bug her that her H has chosen to direct his sexual energy to another female besides herself.

 

I guess my thoughts regarding that are ~ How could you not internalize that line of thinking. If I am married to someone, and they are going to another woman for sex... it undoubetdly means I am not sexy enough for him.

 

I met the OW a few years after my H and I split up- just happened to run into them in shopping over x-mas. I had always pictured that this girl would be hot and sexy... but the fact of the matter is- she was a good 10 years older then me, and my complete opposite. I am tall blonde and thin, she is short, plump and brunette. My friend was with me at the time and couldn't get over this woman and what she looked like. My ex-H is 6 years younger than me- and she is a good 16 years older than him. The bottom line is that we had been having trouble in our marriage- and she happened to be there for him and provide a sexual outlet. She got pregnant- I found out, and I left the marriage.

 

I personally don't have sexual jealousy toward her- but she certainly gave him something I couldn't. They seem happy. I chat with him once and a while and they just had their second child. I am actually happy for him.

 

I don't have bad feelings toward my exH... and I don't think she stole him from me or anything like that. She can't take away the first 6 years of our happy life together- and it's not her fault that him and I were having problems for a while when he slept with her on a business trip and got her pregnant.

 

He'll hold a special place in my heart until the day I die. It's a fondness for what he was to me during those 9 years. He meant a lot to me- we loved each other honestly for a very long time. I just choose not to look back with regret... and I also choose not to blame. We have friendly conversations and heartfelt exchanges of friendship to this day- but it isn't romantic love for eother of us- it's something different.

 

So in retrospect- I did have sexual jealousy for the ow. Since I never met her until long after we split- it was more of a notion of what I thought she was. I constructed her as a hot, sexy mess! lol.... Well he thinks that way anyway- and he is happy.

[silktricks]

But - ahem - I digress. Back on topic in my own freakin' thread:D:D ... I've been thinking about this "sexual jealousy" thing some more. I think it might have been a stupid question to ask. Of course a BS is not going to admit that she fears the OW is sexier than her!! But I know it's got to bug her that her H has chosen to direct his sexual energy to another female besides herself.

I didn't worry that the OW was sexier than me. What I worried about was what was missing in me that my husband was looking for elsewhere. I knew it wasn't sex. Here we are a few years later - and thousands of conversations - and what it boiled down to was that he felt bad about himself.

 

I read an interesting book awhile ago that discussed the "fact" that most BS WANT to believe they were responsible for the problems (of course I don't know if it's a fact at all - but it is an interesting idea). After all if I am responsible for my husband's daliance, I am in control of whether or not it could happen again. If, however, the problem is within him, that takes it out of my control - that can be pretty scary for a lot of people.

 

BTW, interesting point from Owl, Silk et al about the problem or flaw being within the WS, rather than the M or the BS. I've fought that concept many times on these boards ("How can 60+ percent of the population have a character flaw??!?"), but the way you guys wrote your thoughts on that subject (in a vulnerable emotional state, wrestling with problems of their own, etc.) has got me to thinking. I'm going to have to ponder on that one for awhile. Thanks for the valuable input.

 

Well I'll be, you mean there is almost 40% of the population that doesn't have a character flaw?!!? (Thank-you for your kind words.)

[White Flower]

I agree that this is true, however, it isn't really what I was talking about. If 2 people begin to communicate with some exclusivity on-line, they will talk about themselves and their situations. Sometimes attractions grow up out of those communications. The attraction is based on words typed on a computer. The two people involved in the attraction are easily caught up in a fantasy of what they want the other person to be, and what the other person wants them to believe they are.

 

A lot of times once the two people actually meet up the fantasy soon blows away. (Sometimes it doesn't though )

Both of you have valid points. I remember when chat room were first popular and you kept hearing about all these marriages between people who'd moved cross country to be together just to divorce six months later. Online chemistry is not the same as physical chemistry.

 

The physical chemistry already between MM and me grew online because I believe we took risks we may not have taken face to face. If it went too far for either of us, the uncomfortable one could have pulled the plug at any time.

[White Flower]

I guess my thoughts regarding that are ~ How could you not internalize that line of thinking. If I am married to someone, and they are going to another woman for sex... it undoubetdly means I am not sexy enough for him.

 

I met the OW a few years after my H and I split up- just happened to run into them in shopping over x-mas. I had always pictured that this girl would be hot and sexy... but the fact of the matter is- she was a good 10 years older then me, and my complete opposite. I am tall blonde and thin, she is short, plump and brunette. My friend was with me at the time and couldn't get over this woman and what she looked like. My ex-H is 6 years younger than me- and she is a good 16 years older than him. The bottom line is that we had been having trouble in our marriage- and she happened to be there for him and provide a sexual outlet. She got pregnant- I found out, and I left the marriage.

 

I personally don't have sexual jealousy toward her- but she certainly gave him something I couldn't. They seem happy. I chat with him once and a while and they just had their second child. I am actually happy for him.

 

I don't have bad feelings toward my exH... and I don't think she stole him from me or anything like that. She can't take away the first 6 years of our happy life together- and it's not her fault that him and I were having problems for a while when he slept with her on a business trip and got her pregnant.

 

He'll hold a special place in my heart until the day I die. It's a fondness for what he was to me during those 9 years. He meant a lot to me- we loved each other honestly for a very long time. I just choose not to look back with regret... and I also choose not to blame. We have friendly conversations and heartfelt exchanges of friendship to this day- but it isn't romantic love for eother of us- it's something different.

 

So in retrospect- I did have sexual jealousy for the ow. Since I never met her until long after we split- it was more of a notion of what I thought she was. I constructed her as a hot, sexy mess! lol.... Well he thinks that way anyway- and he is happy.

D-Lish, you are one amazing woman! Truly.

[D-Lish]

D-Lish, you are one amazing woman! Truly.

 

So are you WF- you have a great perspective on life!

[GPFan]

But - ahem - I digress. Back on topic in my own freakin' thread:D:D ... I've been thinking about this "sexual jealousy" thing some more. I think it might have been a stupid question to ask. Of course a BS is not going to admit that she fears the OW is sexier than her!! But I know it's got to bug her that her H has chosen to direct his sexual energy to another female besides herself.

It might be more revealing to ask whether the OW herself feels sexier and more attractive than another woman now that she has his attention.

 

I just read an MSN report of Shawna Nelson's story. I realise this is an extreme example but it was interesting to read that as soon Shawna Nelson entered an affair (she had had several), she would turn her focus to the man's wife. Her supervisor, a woman, was the one who noticed this trend as Shawna would share her affair dramas with this supervisor.

 

Shawna claimed the wives to be 'Bs,' ugly, fat, psycho, etc. She obviously thought herself to be superior to the wife as soon as the husband entered into a relationship with her.

 

It is clear to me that Shawna had these affairs in order to engage the wives. All of her drama centred around the wife. Her complaints all centred around the wife. The guy could have been a blow up doll as long as he had a wife. Shawna needed him to interact with her.

 

Again, I know this is an extreme example but who is to say that some OWs don't experience this aspect in a milder form? There is a lot of chatter amongst OWs about how terrible the wife is. One poster here, Lizzie, has openly made disparaging remarks about a wife's appearance (however this too may be an extreme example as most OWs don't work in the sex industry).

 

I don't expect OWs to enthusiastically agree with me. I am placing this out here as food for thought.

[OpenBook]

Interesting points, GP. But the topic of my thread is why the BS focuses so much on the OW. There are many BS's who frequent this OM/OW forum, often with disparaging and condeming remarks... but you don't see the OW's dive-bombing the BS's in the Infidelity forum (except maybe once in a blue moon). It's blatantly different. The typical OW is focused on the MM and his behavior, not his W's.

[GPFan]

Interesting points, GP. But the topic of my thread is why the BS focuses so much on the OW. There are many BS's who frequent this OM/OW forum, often with disparaging and condeming remarks... but you don't see the OW's dive-bombing the BS's in the Infidelity forum (except maybe once in a blue moon). It's blatantly different. The typical OW is focused on the MM and his behavior, not his W's.

Apologies! I just read the story and my mind was reeling a bit.

 

There are an abundance of OWs on discussion boards but not many MMs. Perhaps that plays into the perception of BWs focusing on OWs? There simply aren't many unremorseful MMs around for the BWs to discuss things with.

 

I suspect that in real life, the BS is primarily focussed on the the MM unless the OW demands a lot of attention.

 

Also, let's be real for moment. If you were to announce to any random group of people that you are an OW ... well ... the response would not be overwhelmingly positive. There are religious and societal taboos against publicly engaging in this behaviour.

 

I am not sure why it is such a mystery.

 

The sentiment against women involved in adultery goes back to biblical times:

This is the way of an adulterous woman: She eats and wipes her mouth, And says, "I have done no wrong."

This shows that as long as adultery has been defined, it has been reviled; especially so for women!

[OpenBook]

There are an abundance of OWs on discussion boards but not many MMs. Perhaps that plays into the perception of BWs focusing on OWs? There simply aren't many unremorseful MMs around for the BWs to discuss things with.

 

And isn't that interesting! The very source of all this controversy has no compunction to discuss it or seek input about it.

 

But I never said anything about OW's being "unremorseful." Clearly (from this forum alone) there is a a great deal of confusion, remorse, and a myriad of other emotions on the part of the OW.

 

Also, let's be real for moment. If you were to announce to any random group of people that you are an OW ... well ... the response would not be overwhelmingly positive. There are religious and societal taboos against publicly engaging in this behaviour.

 

I am not sure why it is such a mystery.

 

The sentiment against women involved in adultery goes back to biblical times:This shows that as long as adultery has been defined, it has been reviled; especially so for women!

 

Yes, and the woman has always been targeted for it. But there's no mention of adulterous MEN who are conducting this EXACT SAME BEHAVIOR. Why is it always the woman that gets publicly flogged for it? In fact, it was acknowledged and allowed for men (concubines) in the Bible. I think that's totally unfair, and bogus.

[OWoman]

Also, let's be real for moment. If you were to announce to any random group of people that you are an OW ... well ... the response would not be overwhelmingly positive. There are religious and societal taboos against publicly engaging in this behaviour.

 

Depends where you live. In my country that's not the case at all - perhaps in some backwaters where people still believe that homosexuality is an abomination, or that "miscegenation" is a crime, but in more enlightened parts it's such a non-issue.

 

 

I am not sure why it is such a mystery.

 

The sentiment against women involved in adultery goes back to biblical times:This shows that as long as adultery has been defined, it has been reviled; especially so for women!

 

Your quote at face value says merely that the "woman engaging in adultery" thought she'd done no wrong. How that proves that the behaviour has been "reviled" is unclear unless you approach the quote with the mindset (ie prejudice) that it's wrong, and that the woman's response is therefore inappropriate. If, as I do, you feel there is nothing wrong in "adultery" then her behaviour is entirely appropriate and any "reviling" is merely in the eye of the beholder (or stone holder).

 

Biblical times also provided for polygamous marriage, concubines and all kinds of other forms of sexual relationships such as bearing children with one's servants or slaves, which are not in popular practice today. Monogamy was certainly not the prevailing practice in those times, so to compare the two situations as if they were equivalent is at best naive. It may equally be argued that a LTA constitutes the Biblical equivalent of a second marriage - deemed perfectly acceptable in Biblical times, in fact it was often the second marriages that were more blessed than the first (Jacob being a case in point.)

[angie2443]

It might be more revealing to ask whether the OW herself feels sexier and more attractive than another woman now that she has his attention.

 

I just read an MSN report of Shawna Nelson's story. I realise this is an extreme example but it was interesting to read that as soon Shawna Nelson entered an affair (she had had several), she would turn her focus to the man's wife. Her supervisor, a woman, was the one who noticed this trend as Shawna would share her affair dramas with this supervisor.

 

Shawna claimed the wives to be 'Bs,' ugly, fat, psycho, etc. She obviously thought herself to be superior to the wife as soon as the husband entered into a relationship with her.

 

It is clear to me that Shawna had these affairs in order to engage the wives. All of her drama centred around the wife. Her complaints all centred around the wife. The guy could have been a blow up doll as long as he had a wife. Shawna needed him to interact with her.

 

Again, I know this is an extreme example but who is to say that some OWs don't experience this aspect in a milder form? There is a lot of chatter amongst OWs about how terrible the wife is. One poster here, Lizzie, has openly made disparaging remarks about a wife's appearance (however this too may be an extreme example as most OWs don't work in the sex industry). .

 

I can relate to this. I only slept with a MM twice, and once was when I was 16, so I don't know how much my opinion counts here. I do know that the main reason I did it, was because I felt bieng the OW made you prettier, better, ect. I had a very negative view of "wives" (long story) and thought you could only be one or the other, an OW or a wife, so in my youth, I chose the OW route to feel better about myself. I know it sounds twisted.

[bentnotbroken]

I can relate to this. I only slept with a MM twice, and once was when I was 16, so I don't know how much my opinion counts here. I do know that the main reason I did it, was because I felt bieng the OW made you prettier, better, ect. I had a very negative view of "wives" (long story) and thought you could only be one or the other, an OW or a wife, so in my youth, I chose the OW route to feel better about myself. I know it sounds twisted.

 

 

Not from a 16 year old. Affairs are glamorized in all the media sources, especially soaps, daytime and the giant sized shows of the 80's like Dallas and Dynasty. Videos, evening tv, songs and even commercials. Unfortunately, it isn't the reality of the situation. I think when we grow up, we should be more able to see the truth, but often times it becomes harder because of cynicism and our need as a society of instant, self gratification. We are so focused on catching up, keeping up and getting ahead, we don't feed the positive things in our lives, marriages and personal relationships with who ever you worship. That leads to our personal failures and consequences.

[OWoman]

Affairs are glamorized in all the media sources, especially soaps, daytime and the giant sized shows of the 80's like Dallas and Dynasty. Videos, evening tv, songs and even commercials.

 

Maybe I ought to start watching TV! I've never thought of As as glamorous - well, aside from the tragic chic of Emma Bovary flinging herself under a train, but that wasn't the kind of romance anyone I know has ever aspired to. I've always seen them as very down to earth, like brushing your teeth or washing the dishes. No billowing miles of white voile and confetti, no blushing behind veils or bouquets, no kitchen teas or gift registries or wine farm receptions. It's all very down-to-business - hard-nosed negotiations, strict adherence to terms, instant dismissal by either party should satisfaction waver. How one glamourises that I'm not sure - but I guess if Hollywood can turn Brad Pitt into a sex symbol, anything is possible...

[White Flower]

It might be more revealing to ask whether the OW herself feels sexier and more attractive than another woman now that she has his attention.

 

I just read an MSN report of Shawna Nelson's story. I realise this is an extreme example but it was interesting to read that as soon Shawna Nelson entered an affair (she had had several), she would turn her focus to the man's wife. Her supervisor, a woman, was the one who noticed this trend as Shawna would share her affair dramas with this supervisor.

 

Shawna claimed the wives to be 'Bs,' ugly, fat, psycho, etc. She obviously thought herself to be superior to the wife as soon as the husband entered into a relationship with her.

 

It is clear to me that Shawna had these affairs in order to engage the wives. All of her drama centred around the wife. Her complaints all centred around the wife. The guy could have been a blow up doll as long as he had a wife. Shawna needed him to interact with her.

 

Again, I know this is an extreme example but who is to say that some OWs don't experience this aspect in a milder form? There is a lot of chatter amongst OWs about how terrible the wife is. One poster here, Lizzie, has openly made disparaging remarks about a wife's appearance (however this too may be an extreme example as most OWs don't work in the sex industry).

 

I don't expect OWs to enthusiastically agree with me. I am placing this out here as food for thought.

This is an interesting account of an individual OW. Again, every OW is different, every MM, every BS as well.

 

I have a friend who had an A and she was much like this. She felt that her size 6 body, implants, and other such improvements validated the idea that she was better for her MM and that must have been obviously why he sought her affections. She told me his W was short, fat, unkept, and very b****y, etc. She could not understand in her wildest dreams why this man would choose his W over her. She rationalized it with him not wanting to lose the kids, the retirement plan, the house, etc. But sometimes we forget that that for a lot of MM it is not the way a woman looks that makes him wander, but how a woman makes him feel.

 

I've said this before and I'll share it again. I'm twice the size of exMM's wife. She being too thin and me being voluptuous, we're polar opposites.

 

I know he fell for me because of the way I made him feel, but he would tell you it was because I was beautiful, smart, warm, and caring.

 

He had a nice variety between the two of us and I must admit it got to me sometimes because once in a while I wondered if he enjoyed that variety.

 

But I was never anything like this Shawna Nelson. I've never said a bad word about his wife and if we met we would probably hit it off.