When MM thinks he has to stay married in spite of his own needs

[complicatedlife]

I haven't posted in a long time, but I've still been here reading.

 

I have this dilemma that I'm pondering on. I didn't believe my MM when he told me that he needs to stay at home as long as he can for his children because his children are the type that need 2 parents at home. (Brief recap: we met, became friends for a few months, he eventually wanted to date, I said only if you are single, he and W legally separated and he moved out - we dated - he became depressed - I told him he should go back home - he did.....started MC with his W and realized through MC that he didn't love her that way anymore but thinks he needs to stay for his children. He says he doesn't know how long he can tolerate living that way, but for now, he will stay).

 

I did some research and talked to a child psychologist who told me that MM is correct - if there is no abuse and the two parents can at least be friends, it IS better for some children to be in a two-parent household. And he (MM) strongly believes that his children are ones that would benefit from this arrangement.

 

So....now I don't know what to do. And neither does he. I feel better having spoken with the psychologist, yet sad that he would have to live that way. He feels torn between his children and leaving to have a complete life.

 

Have any of you been in this situation, and if so, what did you do about it?

 

Thanks.

[OpenBook]

He is trying to do the right thing by his children, even though he doesn't love his W anymore. I'll wager that is the case with most MM's who've been married for awhile and who seek out sex & companionship outside their M.

 

So he is making this decision for himself to stay in the M. Now it's up to you to make some decisions for YOURself. It all depends on what you want out of life, and out of him. No matter what decision you make, you're going to have to sacrifice something. Same as him.

 

I think your decision should be based on what is best for YOU, and not for anyone else. And you are the only person who can make that call.

[blair08]

IMO, if a marriage is over, and all things have been tried, I believe two people can remain friends and remain civil for the kids sake. Show them love and understanding, be there for thier kids etc, without still having to be married. To me, kids are hurt more in the long run by two people staying together just to be staying together. They might not always know exactly what is going on, but they know when things are not going well.

[Adunaphel]

My situation is only slightly similar to yours. MM is still married, has kids (age 6 and 11), has recently told his W that their marriage is over (I have nothing to do with their marriage problems; I *might* be an exit affair but anyway if I hadn't been in the picture it would just have been a question of time before he had *that* talk with his W), he *actually* thinks his marriage is over, is still living with his W, is not planning to get a separation or divorce (not now, at least) because of his children and expecially because he has not enough money to live on his own without affecting his children's life.

All of the above assuming that he has not just been lying to me.

 

In my case it is not just about the kids, but I suspect there might be something else along the line of cake-eating, yet I think I can relate.

 

What can I do about it... absolutely nothing.

what can I do... (in case he is the man I hope he is) ...either breaking it off or risk losing the most precious years of my life.

How old are you? I am 29 - not the best age to risk wasting time on a relationship that has very little chances of going anywhere.

Do you have children? Do you want any?

If you would like to have your own family, is it worth it to wait and hope things will change?

 

I am asking you the same questions I am asking to myself.

The day I will find answers, I'll share them with you.

 

Do you think he could *actually* be your soulmate?

How much are you willing to risk betting on this relationship?

Would you be able to handle the situation?

[complicatedlife]

 

So he is making this decision for himself to stay in the M. Now it's up to you to make some decisions for YOURself. It all depends on what you want out of life, and out of him. No matter what decision you make, you're going to have to sacrifice something. Same as him.

 

That's the thing that's hard to figure out - because he's saying that he's not sure he can live in that situation for very long, it makes me wonder if I should wait.

[complicatedlife]

IMO, if a marriage is over, and all things have been tried, I believe two people can remain friends and remain civil for the kids sake. Show them love and understanding, be there for thier kids etc, without still having to be married. To me, kids are hurt more in the long run by two people staying together just to be staying together. They might not always know exactly what is going on, but they know when things are not going well.

 

So you don't agree with the psychologist, then?

[JackJack]

I also agree with the fact two people don't have to stay married for the kids sake. They can love thier kids, support them, be there for them, and be in their lives, without being married to each other.

 

I think bascially its more along the lines of cake eating as well. They choose to stay married usually for more than just the kids sake. I would think more along the lines of being married/having the family life, and having someone on the side, which equals cake eating.

[complicatedlife]

How old are you? I am 29 - not the best age to risk wasting time on a relationship that has very little chances of going anywhere.

Do you have children? Do you want any?

If you would like to have your own family, is it worth it to wait and hope things will change?

 

Do you think he could *actually* be your soulmate?

How much are you willing to risk betting on this relationship?

Would you be able to handle the situation?

 

I am in my mid-thirties - never been married, no children. At one time I wanted both things; for the last few years, if it happens, it happens, and if it doesn't, that's okay, too. Since I've been with MM, I only want marriage and children if it can be with HIM. I am not sure if I believe in soulmates, but if there is such a thing, he is definitely it.

[blair08]

So you don't agree with the psychologist, then?

 

 

I stated, IMO which means, In My Opinon. Its an opinon, it doesn't make it a right or wrong one.

 

I don't have to agree with the psychologist.

[complicatedlife]

I also agree with the fact two people don't have to stay married for the kids sake. They can love thier kids, support them, be there for them, and be in their lives, without being married to each other.

 

I think basically its more along the lines of cake eating as well. They choose to stay married usually for more than just the kids sake. I would think more along the lines of being married/having the family life, and having someone on the side, which equals cake eating.

 

He actually says he knows it's cake eating. That's why he's torn - he wants to do the right thing for him, yet he feels that if he does (which is the leaving), it would be selfish. He believes his children should come, while they are children, before his own needs. I can't be angry with anyone who is trying to do the right thing when children are involved. I think he edges more on the side of leaving at this point, however, because he thinks that he won't be able to be with his children as he'd like to in a divorce, and because of his massive feelings of guilt towards them AND the W, it gives him pause.

[complicatedlife]

I stated, IMO which means, In My Opinon. Its an opinon, it doesn't make it a right or wrong one.

 

I don't have to agree with the psychologist.

 

I was just clarifying. I know what IMO means, and I never said your opinion was wrong or right. And your opinion is appreciated. I actually agree with it, but I am also aware that a child psychologist might have better psychological insight on children than I do.

[Adunaphel]

I am in my mid-thirties - never been married, no children. At one time I wanted both things; for the last few years, if it happens, it happens, and if it doesn't, that's okay, too.

 

Are you *absolutely* sure about this? Would you feel this way even if MM was not in your life?

 

Sorry about insisting on the point above, but *this*

Since I've been with MM, I only want marriage and children if it can be with HIM.

sets off alarm bells in my mind, even if I cannot exactly explain you why. (but I will as soon as I find the right words.)

Let's say for now that the moment I hear that you want something as important as marriage or children (or anything equally important and binding) *only* with one specific person, I assume you cannot imagine yourself fully happy with someone else other than him, and I start to suspect that you have idealized him a bit too much.

 

If you had stated you do not want marriage or children with anyone, him included, I'd think that at least you do not have nothing to lose apart from time (which is important in itself).

But I have the feeling that if you would marry him, then there might be other men with whom you'd be as much happy - or much happier - and have children while you are still in time to -- only, you would not give yourself a chance to get to know any of these man because you'd be too busy waiting for this one.

 

...makes any sense?

[JackJack]

He actually says he knows it's cake eating. That's why he's torn - he wants to do the right thing for him, yet he feels that if he does (which is the leaving), it would be selfish. He believes his children should come, while they are children, before his own needs. I can't be angry with anyone who is trying to do the right thing when children are involved. I think he edges more on the side of leaving at this point, however, because he thinks that he won't be able to be with his children as he'd like to in a divorce, and because of his massive feelings of guilt towards them AND the W, it gives him pause.

 

I understand what you're saying. However its really not up to him. Its up to you. Do you, in your heart beleive he is better off to stay in his marriage for his kids? Or, do you feel its just a line for him to stay and have things both ways, his marriage/family and you?

 

It really has to be YOUR call. Its all in what you feel you can tolerate. If you feel you can go along with him staying in his marriage for whatever reason, and have you too, then fine. If you feel its NOT ok, then you might have to be the one to make that decison for yourself. I think he has already made HIS choice, now its your turn.

[frannie]

I've read studies which say that it's better for the children if the parents can stay together and show them love, as long as there is no overt fighting and no abuse. I did quite a bit of reading on the subject while MM was wondering what he was going to do.

 

I have also read studies which suggest that having parents who stay together 'for the kids' and pretend everything is OK when they quite obviously aren't, are just misleading the children and doing them no favours. How are these children going to learn what a healthy relationship looks like in this case?

 

I have also heard from adults whose parents stayed together until they were 18 and then separated, and about the guilt that that heaps on the children's heads. Does any child want their parents to sacrifice their happiness and martyr themselves in this way?

 

At the end of the day, your MM will have to make this choice for himself, and no study or evidence or opinion of any psychologist will be able to give him a guarantee that whatever he does won't negatively impact on his children. No one can predict that, because we are all individuals, including the children, and how each of us reacts to a given situation will vary.

 

No psychologist can predict the outcome.

[complicatedlife]

Are you *absolutely* sure about this? Would you feel this way even if MM was not in your life?

 

Sorry about insisting on the point above, but *this*

 

sets off alarm bells in my mind, even if I cannot exactly explain you why. (but I will as soon as I find the right words.)

Let's say for now that the moment I hear that you want something as important as marriage or children (or anything equally important and binding) *only* with one specific person, I assume you cannot imagine yourself fully happy with someone else other than him, and I start to suspect that you have idealized him a bit too much.

 

If you had stated you do not want marriage or children with anyone, him included, I'd think that at least you do not have nothing to lose apart from time (which is important in itself).

But I have the feeling that if you would marry him, then there might be other men with whom you'd be as much happy - or much happier - and have children while you are still in time to -- only, you would not give yourself a chance to get to know any of these man because you'd be too busy waiting for this one.

 

...makes any sense?

 

MM actually tells me that he thinks I idealize him more than I should. I don't necessarily think that's true because: who wouldn't want to be married to someone who they know cares about them genuinely as a whole person? Who wouldn't want to have children with someone who is a great father who always puts their children first? It just seems natural to me that I would feel this way. Have I ever thought I could have those things with someone else? It's possible. But it wouldn't be the same because they are not MM.

[complicatedlife]

I understand what you're saying. However its really not up to him. Its up to you. Do you, in your heart beleive he is better off to stay in his marriage for his kids? Or, do you feel its just a line for him to stay and have things both ways, his marriage/family and you?

 

It really has to be YOUR call. Its all in what you feel you can tolerate. If you feel you can go along with him staying in his marriage for whatever reason, and have you too, then fine. If you feel its NOT ok, then you might have to be the one to make that decison for yourself. I think he has already made HIS choice, now its your turn.

 

In my heart, I believe it's better if he leaves - whether I am in the picture (or any other for that matter) or not. He's been too unhappy for too long, way before I came along. I have never thought he was giving me a line because if he was, he would not be as conflicted about the situation if that were the case.

 

My toleration: I don't want to see a married man, so no, it's not okay. But do I love him? Yes. Do I understand and have empathy for his situation? Yes. Does it make it any easier to walk away? Sadly, no.

[complicatedlife]

I've read studies which say that it's better for the children if the parents can stay together and show them love, as long as there is no overt fighting and no abuse. I did quite a bit of reading on the subject while MM was wondering what he was going to do.

 

I have also read studies which suggest that having parents who stay together 'for the kids' and pretend everything is OK when they quite obviously aren't, are just misleading the children and doing them no favours. How are these children going to learn what a healthy relationship looks like in this case?

 

I have also heard from adults whose parents stayed together until they were 18 and then separated, and about the guilt that that heaps on the children's heads. Does any child want their parents to sacrifice their happiness and martyr themselves in this way?

 

At the end of the day, your MM will have to make this choice for himself, and no study or evidence or opinion of any psychologist will be able to give him a guarantee that whatever he does won't negatively impact on his children. No one can predict that, because we are all individuals, including the children, and how each of us reacts to a given situation will vary.

 

No psychologist can predict the outcome.

 

I told him that staying could be negative, and leaving could be negative. And maybe this is wrong, but I also told him that his children are children for a much shorter period than they are adults, and that whatever he and his W do now will impact their adult relationships. He is aware of all of these things - when he first made the decision to stay a few months ago, he was adamant about it. Now he's not. And that is the part that is hard for me...I feel like he's "coming around" to what I think he should do: file for divorce.

[OpenBook]

That's the thing that's hard to figure out - because he's saying that he's not sure he can live in that situation for very long, it makes me wonder if I should wait.

 

No. You should NEVER wait for a man! It's totally his decision whether to stay in the M or not. You should do what's best for YOU, and that decision does NOT include him! At all! You are a separate, sentient being from him, and your happiness does NOT depend on him.

 

If you and he are meant to be, it will happen. But it will not happen if you wait around for him or put any pressure on him to leave - those actions may actually prevent it from happening (if it was ever meant to be in the first place!). His decisions about his own life have nothing to do with you. And yours should have nothing to do with him either.

[Mino]

I was just clarifying. I know what IMO means, and I never said your opinion was wrong or right. And your opinion is appreciated. I actually agree with it, but I am also aware that a child psychologist might have better psychological insight on children than I do.

I guess it all depends what country thr doctor is from.. Here in the US , thats what the say.. In Europe, the opinion is different. They say better to seperate. It all boils down to perserve the family no matter What parent is unhappy. I think people should relialize people can co parent in two different households. I do think that paqrt of the divorce process the parent should be sent to a class to learn to do this well... That way everybody can be happy. I couldnt see sacrificing my next 20 years in an unhappy Marriage, when I know i can be just as good of a parent on my own.

[frannie]

In my heart, I believe it's better if he leaves - whether I am in the picture (or any other for that matter) or not. He's been too unhappy for too long, way before I came along. I have never thought he was giving me a line because if he was, he would not be as conflicted about the situation if that were the case.

 

My toleration: I don't want to see a married man, so no, it's not okay. But do I love him? Yes. Do I understand and have empathy for his situation? Yes. Does it make it any easier to walk away? Sadly, no.

 

I told him that staying could be negative, and leaving could be negative. And maybe this is wrong, but I also told him that his children are children for a much shorter period than they are adults, and that whatever he and his W do now will impact their adult relationships. He is aware of all of these things - when he first made the decision to stay a few months ago, he was adamant about it. Now he's not. And that is the part that is hard for me...I feel like he's "coming around" to what I think he should do: file for divorce.

 

SC, it sounds to me that you are in more or less the situation I was in. Yes, MM do use the 'staying for the kids' line, but sometimes it's actually also true that they wonder and worry about this aspect. It's not like we haven't seen MM posters on LS voicing this opinion themselves. So no, its not necessarily a lie.

 

I too felt that, given all he'd told me, it would be better all round if he left. Actually when he posted on LS everyone else told him the same. Even so, if it feels too frightening, or he's unsure, then nothing you or anyone else says is going to help that, really. Or, maybe I should say it never did in my case. xMM even went to individual counselling to try to deal with this aspect of leaving and when I spoke to him last in January it was still the one thing preventing him from leaving. It was all about what it might do to the children along with the knowledge that he would no longer see them whenever he wanted or could see them. A combination of those factors made him hesitate... for years.

 

Like your MM, mine 'came round' over time. However, the fear is still there, and it could take a long, long time to overcome. At the end of it I couldn't wait any longer for him to make a decision. I don't know if I was 'right' as such, but I know that I didn't want to hear him get to the end of his counselling and say again, no, he couldn't do it. So I went NC to protect myself.

 

I think that in my particular situation, it was my being around that was making his marriage bearable, and enabling him to be there at the weekends to see his kids in their own (and his) home, without much of the tension and many of the arguments there would otherwise have been. It was my being there and listening to him and supporting him which enabled him to ponder and wonder about what might happen if he left. Now he just has to live that life and if he thinks they're all doing OK in it... then fine.

[complicatedlife]

SC, it sounds to me that you are in more or less the situation I was in. Yes, MM do use the 'staying for the kids' line, but sometimes it's actually also true that they wonder and worry about this aspect. It's not like we haven't seen MM posters on LS voicing this opinion themselves. So no, its not necessarily a lie.

 

I too felt that, given all he'd told me, it would be better all round if he left. Actually when he posted on LS everyone else told him the same. Even so, if it feels too frightening, or he's unsure, then nothing you or anyone else says is going to help that, really. Or, maybe I should say it never did in my case. xMM even went to individual counselling to try to deal with this aspect of leaving and when I spoke to him last in January it was still the one thing preventing him from leaving. It was all about what it might do to the children along with the knowledge that he would no longer see them whenever he wanted or could see them. A combination of those factors made him hesitate... for years.

 

Like your MM, mine 'came round' over time. However, the fear is still there, and it could take a long, long time to overcome. At the end of it I couldn't wait any longer for him to make a decision. I don't know if I was 'right' as such, but I know that I didn't want to hear him get to the end of his counselling and say again, no, he couldn't do it. So I went NC to protect myself.

 

I think that in my particular situation, it was my being around that was making his marriage bearable, and enabling him to be there at the weekends to see his kids in their own (and his) home, without much of the tension and many of the arguments there would otherwise have been. It was my being there and listening to him and supporting him which enabled him to ponder and wonder about what might happen if he left. Now he just has to live that life and if he thinks they're all doing OK in it... then fine.

 

The situation you were in is similar to mine; what you've said here is making me think really hard.

 

Have you ever felt, under all of your care, "How can I be with someone who is not strong enough to do what they KNOW is really the right thing because of fear?"

[IWALH]

Pretty f*cking sad, huh?

 

I hate all these situations on this board.

 

I hate this website.

 

I hate her.

 

This is my last post on this Godforsaken website, it has caused my life so much destruction. I'm done. Bye LS.

[whichwayisup]

IWALH, I wish you and your daughter peace and happiness in life.

 

I also hope you're able to direct the anger you feel towards your exMM and not "her", and someday with the help of counselling put all of this away forever so you can find someone who can make you happy without all the drama and pain.

 

Take care.

[Lookingforward]

Have you ever felt, under all of your care, "How can I be with someone who is not strong enough to do what they KNOW is really the right thing because of fear?"

 

yes, many many times - but maybe he is there FOR his own needs, not 'in spite of them'

[Mino]

Pretty f*cking sad, huh?

 

I hate all these situations on this board.

 

I hate this website.

 

I hate her.

 

This is my last post on this Godforsaken website, it has caused my life so much destruction. I'm done. Bye LS.

Good luck IWALH, Peace be with you, stay strong...