When MM thinks he has to stay married in spite of his own needs

[White Flower]

Pretty f*cking sad, huh?

 

I hate all these situations on this board.

 

I hate this website.

 

I hate her.

 

This is my last post on this Godforsaken website, it has caused my life so much destruction. I'm done. Bye LS.

IWALH,

 

One day, you will look back on this and not feel the same way. Trust me, you'll be fine. Hang in there, sweetheart.

[White Flower]

The situation you were in is similar to mine; what you've said here is making me think really hard.

 

Have you ever felt, under all of your care, "How can I be with someone who is not strong enough to do what they KNOW is really the right thing because of fear?"

Excellent point. I dwell on this often. Any woman just wants a strong man who will always do the right thing (right for him), even if that is hard to do.

[OWoman]

Pretty f*cking sad, huh?

 

I hate all these situations on this board.

 

I hate this website.

 

I hate her.

 

This is my last post on this Godforsaken website, it has caused my life so much destruction. I'm done. Bye LS.

 

It's tough being strong all the time, IWALH, but you'll get through this. Enjoy your daughter, celebrate yourself.

 

(((((hugs)))))

[OWoman]

Excellent point. I dwell on this often. Any woman just wants a strong man who will always do the right thing (right for him), even if that is hard to do.

 

If he can't do what's right for him, he won't do what's right by anyone else, ultimately. But guys in that situation often don't realise that at the time. They think they're doing "the right thing" by suppressing their own needs, and land up short-changing the universe.

[White Flower]

If he can't do what's right for him, he won't do what's right by anyone else, ultimately. But guys in that situation often don't realise that at the time. They think they're doing "the right thing" by suppressing their own needs, and land up short-changing the universe.

Unfortunately you are right. His W doesn't get someone who is head over heels in love with them because he thinks he is all she wants or needs, he does not get to be with the one he wants, and all his family and friends do not get to see his authentic happiness because he is faking it all the time. All this dilemma over doing what he is told by tradition is right.

[OWoman]

Unfortunately you are right. His W doesn't get someone who is head over heels in love with them because he thinks he is all she wants or needs, he does not get to be with the one he wants, and all his family and friends do not get to see his authentic happiness because he is faking it all the time. All this dilemma over doing what he is told by tradition is right.

 

 

So... who does benefit? <insert Trotskyist anarchist rant>

 

Seriously though, usually by the time these guys realise - if they do - that they're not benefitting their Ws, their kids, or themselves, it's too late to do anything about it because the True Loves of Their Lives have moved on... or given up waiting...

[complicatedlife]

Excellent point. I dwell on this often. Any woman just wants a strong man who will always do the right thing (right for him), even if that is hard to do.

 

I want him to do the right thing for HIM. But then I sit and think about all of the things that would be affected: his kids, his W, his family, her family, close friends, finances, the splitting up of the house, how his colleagues would view him - I know that these are all things that anyone in this situation would think about, so while I do feel that he should just DO IT (the divorce), I also wonder if, with all of these factors, if I'm being too hard on him....

[complicatedlife]

If he can't do what's right for him, he won't do what's right by anyone else, ultimately. But guys in that situation often don't realise that at the time. They think they're doing "the right thing" by suppressing their own needs, and land up short-changing the universe.

 

He'd say something along the lines of, "What is right for me is to be with my kids and to be with you. How do I do both of those things without hurting so many people, and how do I choose one over the other - my happiness or my children's happiness?" To which I would reply: nothing! I wouldn't even begin to know how to answer that!

[complicatedlife]

Unfortunately you are right. His W doesn't get someone who is head over heels in love with them because he thinks he is all she wants or needs, he does not get to be with the one he wants, and all his family and friends do not get to see his authentic happiness because he is faking it all the time. All this dilemma over doing what he is told by tradition is right.

 

I think his "happiness faking" is only half of the time - he seems very happy when he's with his children. Not only is the dilemma over tradition, it's also guilt - in all directions.

[frannie]

The situation you were in is similar to mine; what you've said here is making me think really hard.

 

Have you ever felt, under all of your care, "How can I be with someone who is not strong enough to do what they KNOW is really the right thing because of fear?"

 

I've had feelings along those lines, but:

 

I want him to do the right thing for HIM. But then I sit and think about all of the things that would be affected: his kids, his W, his family, her family, close friends, finances, the splitting up of the house, how his colleagues would view him - I know that these are all things that anyone in this situation would think about, so while I do feel that he should just DO IT (the divorce), I also wonder if, with all of these factors, if I'm being too hard on him....

 

.. yes, I've also felt what you've said here (bolded). In fact, that's why I broke NC last time: after four months, he hadn't left yet, I started to think: right, if he can't do it in that time it must REALLY be hard for him. And then I thought, I don't want to force him to decide me, or the kids, why would I do that? I started to get all soft and, missing him, decided that I'd call and see how he was feeling about things.

 

But no, I don't really see it as what I'd call 'weakness', though perhaps it is and I'm just not prepared to call him weak when I can see how conflicted and unhappy he was. It's easy to say, oh surely if you feel the way you do, you leave!! But I can't imagine what it would be like to leave your home, and your children behind. However much people say, 'you're not leaving your kids, you're leaving the marriage', in practice, as the male, you are almost certainly going to have to walk out of that door and feel like you're abandoning them.

 

How is that weak, to not want to do that? If that's weak, then I'm prepared to love someone that 'weak'. He has his needs, his priorities, and I love him despite/because of that.

 

I still went NC, however, and that's how it's going to stay, because guess what, I have MY needs and priorities too, and I have to take care of me.

 

 

eta: also, I don't think he is so sure that leaving is the right thing to do. I think he believes that if he can stay there and not argue with her, and be there long enough so his kids are older and more able to cope with his leaving, then it's better for them.

[complicatedlife]

I still went NC, however, and that's how it's going to stay, because guess what, I have MY needs and priorities too, and I have to take care of me.

Has he ever tried to contact you and how does he feel about it? Does he say the NC makes things worse/better for him?

 

 

eta: also, I don't think he is so sure that leaving is the right thing to do. I think he believes that if he can stay there and not argue with her, and be there long enough so his kids are older and more able to cope with his leaving, then it's better for them.

Hmm - my MM thinks leaving is the right thing for him and W but staying is right for the children...though these days, he's saying it's better for the children in the short term, but not long term.

[frannie]

Has he ever tried to contact you and how does he feel about it? Does he say the NC makes things worse/better for him?

 

No, its only been four months anyway. There's no way he'd break NC, because he knows it's what I want and need.

 

We did go NC before for four months, more than two years ago now, and at that time we'd only been seeing each other for hmm about a year off and on (first year was online only). But at that point, after I broke NC, obviously I got chance to talk to him about the experience of it all. And more recently, we revisited those times, just before we split up. I said to him I didn't WANT to do NC again... because last time we went four months and he did absolutely nothing about leaving. So if it's NC this time, it's NC for good, but I hate the feeling of blackness I'm going to go into because it's over and you'll do nothing. But I know I have to do it...

 

His reaction to that was, well, last NC was two years ago and I just didn't feel the same way then! Besides, four months was nothing in the scheme of things, it wasn't enough time for me to leave in. I'd only just had time to process that it might be over, and my feelings weren't anywhere near as strong.

 

I think last NC it was water off a ducks back to him in many ways. He wasn't anywhere near leaving. I can say that in retrospect, but at the time it didn't feel like that. It felt like I'd given him enough time to get to know me, so why wasn't he leaving if he didn't want to be married..?? I think he was prepared to put his head down and just get on with life. That's why I was so scared to go NC this time. I didn't want to disappear off into the distance and never see him again. But what choice did I have? If at this stage he can still put his head down and get on with life, then let him. His choice to make.

 

He's said, having me in his life makes it worthwhile. Make it easier for him to stay. When he can't talk to me, he argues more with her. When he can't see me, he has no one else to talk to about his day, no one to share things with. But he's used to living like that, that's how his marriage has been for years. I suppose last NC he just reverted to that mindset: this is my life.

 

How it is for him this time, I don't know. For my own sanity I don't think about it if I can help it. When I went NC I did it for me, so I could get out of the affair, not so it would force him to do anything. Of course a (huge) part of me wants him to miss me, and come back to me. But when I went NC it was with the intention of breaking up with him as a married man. I promised myself that there would be no more affair, and that is the most important thing for me. To have the life that I want, and I didn't want to be the OW. The only way I can continue with NC is to keep knowing and reminding myself that this is what I want. No more being the OW for me. Even if that means I never see him again, that's how it has to be.

[neverendingsaga]

He's said, having me in his life makes it worthwhile. Make it easier for him to stay. When he can't talk to me, he argues more with her. When he can't see me, he has no one else to talk to about his day, no one to share things with. But he's used to living like that, that's how his marriage has been for years. I suppose last NC he just reverted to that mindset: this is my life.

 

How it is for him this time, I don't know. For my own sanity I don't think about it if I can help it. When I went NC I did it for me, so I could get out of the affair, not so it would force him to do anything. Of course a (huge) part of me wants him to miss me, and come back to me. But when I went NC it was with the intention of breaking up with him as a married man. I promised myself that there would be no more affair, and that is the most important thing for me. To have the life that I want, and I didn't want to be the OW. The only way I can continue with NC is to keep knowing and reminding myself that this is what I want. No more being the OW for me. Even if that means I never see him again, that's how it has to be.

 

wow. i used to think my situation was so unique- it felt painful to have to go through alone but i also had hope b/c i believed XMM. now i see that so many other OW have similar stories. that makes me realize the things he said & did were so common for MM to say & do. so i have less hope & more strength. i am using my knowledge to come to a better place, b/c i was getting so depressed in the state i was in.

 

my XMM said the same thing, that when hes w/ me he doesnt have to deal w/ the everyday bad reality of his M. but when he doesnt have me he misses me & realizes im the one he wants to be with & the one he loves talking to & listening to... so it makes him realise he needs to take the steps to be with me.

 

oh that is so screwed up. why doesnt he feel the need to be around me MORE when he does have me. why do i have to take it away for him to face that the reality he wants is w/ me. am i just a fantasy to him? i think so.

 

and like you frannie i realised i had to stop worrying about him & the choices he was making- to stay M'ed & slip into fantasy world w/ me. i had to focus on me & realise that i do not want this life- my reality was being his OW & that was a crappy reality. so i am not his ow & if he ever wants me the right way he can come & see if i still want him. i find such strength on this board from ppl like you. thank you.

[complicatedlife]

No, its only been four months anyway. There's no way he'd break NC, because he knows it's what I want and need.

 

We did go NC before for four months, more than two years ago now, and at that time we'd only been seeing each other for hmm about a year off and on (first year was online only). But at that point, after I broke NC, obviously I got chance to talk to him about the experience of it all. And more recently, we revisited those times, just before we split up. I said to him I didn't WANT to do NC again... because last time we went four months and he did absolutely nothing about leaving. So if it's NC this time, it's NC for good, but I hate the feeling of blackness I'm going to go into because it's over and you'll do nothing. But I know I have to do it...

 

His reaction to that was, well, last NC was two years ago and I just didn't feel the same way then! Besides, four months was nothing in the scheme of things, it wasn't enough time for me to leave in. I'd only just had time to process that it might be over, and my feelings weren't anywhere near as strong.

 

I think last NC it was water off a ducks back to him in many ways. He wasn't anywhere near leaving. I can say that in retrospect, but at the time it didn't feel like that. It felt like I'd given him enough time to get to know me, so why wasn't he leaving if he didn't want to be married..?? I think he was prepared to put his head down and just get on with life. That's why I was so scared to go NC this time. I didn't want to disappear off into the distance and never see him again. But what choice did I have? If at this stage he can still put his head down and get on with life, then let him. His choice to make.

 

He's said, having me in his life makes it worthwhile. Make it easier for him to stay. When he can't talk to me, he argues more with her. When he can't see me, he has no one else to talk to about his day, no one to share things with. But he's used to living like that, that's how his marriage has been for years. I suppose last NC he just reverted to that mindset: this is my life.

 

How it is for him this time, I don't know. For my own sanity I don't think about it if I can help it. When I went NC I did it for me, so I could get out of the affair, not so it would force him to do anything. Of course a (huge) part of me wants him to miss me, and come back to me. But when I went NC it was with the intention of breaking up with him as a married man. I promised myself that there would be no more affair, and that is the most important thing for me. To have the life that I want, and I didn't want to be the OW. The only way I can continue with NC is to keep knowing and reminding myself that this is what I want. No more being the OW for me. Even if that means I never see him again, that's how it has to be.

 

...I could arrive at this place - it seems to take forever to get there both emotionally and mentally! It's doubly hard because I recently lost a friend and that makes it even more difficult to let this friend go. And he REALLY has been such a great friend.

[Mustang Sally]

I think Frannie's post earlier really hit the nail on the head with an important concept: a clarification, if you will, on what "cake-eating" really is for a lot of people.

 

The word ("cake-eating") has a very negative connotation. Meaning, it is something premeditated and, more importantly, malicious. It implies intent to selfishly use (and abuse) two other people.

 

I certainly think that this is true for many cheaters.

 

But, I also think that for some people, staying in the M and keeping some sort of relationship on the side (be it PA, EA, or EA+PA) is more of a coping mechanism (again - if you will). And, it ultimately becomes a crutch to a (any way you slice it) dishonest existence.

 

Is it still ultimately selfish?

Yes, I do believe it is. (Just as I do believe that you - allowing it - are ultimately an enabler.)

 

But one can be self-serving without being malicious. I think it is a way for someone who feels they have no really acceptable options to grasp at straws to try to keep what feels unbearable (the M) more bearable (with something "on the side," in whatever capacity that may manifest itself).

 

Again. I do not think this makes it right...because ultimately, the two people being "used" are not getting their fair due (be it knowingly, or unknowingly).

 

But I do think - in this context - it can sometimes be understandable.

 

Well, anyway, that's just me, I guess.

 

Anyway, OP. I think others are so right in telling you that you, too, must ultimately do what is right for YOU. You can not get time back. And unfortunately, we are not given the benefit of hindsight when we are in the midst of making (seemingly) irrevocable decisions. I feel for you, and wish you clarity of mind as you weigh your options. I do believe you must first be absolutely true to yourself. Good luck.

[John Who]

Is'nt he putting his own needs first by having the A?

[Lookingforward]

I think Frannie's post earlier really hit the nail on the head with an important concept: a clarification, if you will, on what "cake-eating" really is for a lot of people.

 

The word ("cake-eating") has a very negative connotation. Meaning, it is something premeditated and, more importantly, malicious. It implies intent to selfishly use (and abuse) two other people.

 

I certainly think that this is true for many cheaters.

 

But, I also think that for some people, staying in the M and keeping some sort of relationship on the side (be it PA, EA, or EA+PA) is more of a coping mechanism (again - if you will). And, it ultimately becomes a crutch to a (any way you slice it) dishonest existence.

 

Is it still ultimately selfish?

Yes, I do believe it is. (Just as I do believe that you - allowing it - are ultimately an enabler.)

 

But one can be self-serving without being malicious. I think it is a way for someone who feels they have no really acceptable options to grasp at straws to try to keep what feels unbearable (the M) more bearable (with something "on the side," in whatever capacity that may manifest itself).

 

Again. I do not think this makes it right...because ultimately, the two people being "used" are not getting their fair due (be it knowingly, or unknowingly).

 

But I do think - in this context - it can sometimes be understandable.

 

Well, anyway, that's just me, I guess.

 

Anyway, OP. I think others are so right in telling you that you, too, must ultimately do what is right for YOU. You can not get time back. And unfortunately, we are not given the benefit of hindsight when we are in the midst of making (seemingly) irrevocable decisions. I feel for you, and wish you clarity of mind as you weigh your options. I do believe you must first be absolutely true to yourself. Good luck.

 

 

Agree totally , if the only thing that makes the M bearable is to have someone else on the side , even if it's purely "talking about the M", then that's self serving as you say and unfair to all.

[complicatedlife]

Anyway, OP. I think others are so right in telling you that you, too, must ultimately do what is right for YOU. You can not get time back. And unfortunately, we are not given the benefit of hindsight when we are in the midst of making (seemingly) irrevocable decisions. I feel for you, and wish you clarity of mind as you weigh your options. I do believe you must first be absolutely true to yourself. Good luck.

 

Thank you very much for your thoughtful and kind post.

[GreenEyedLady]

He'd say something along the lines of, "What is right for me is to be with my kids and to be with you. How do I do both of those things without hurting so many people, and how do I choose one over the other - my happiness or my children's happiness?" To which I would reply: nothing! I wouldn't even begin to know how to answer that!

 

Call bull**** on that!

 

How is he making his children happy by cheating on their mother and lying to her?

 

As parents we are not here to make our children happy...We are to love and nurture our children and raise them to be responsible adults who can take care of themselves...

 

He's playing the guilt card on you; he thinks it's his trump card...

 

Let him know you are concerned about your "happiness" and if it's not a priority to him, you'll find someone who it will be a priority to...You have all the power here-you can go elsewhere...

 

Where can he go?

 

GEL

[White Flower]

I think Frannie's post earlier really hit the nail on the head with an important concept: a clarification, if you will, on what "cake-eating" really is for a lot of people.

 

The word ("cake-eating") has a very negative connotation. Meaning, it is something premeditated and, more importantly, malicious. It implies intent to selfishly use (and abuse) two other people.

 

I certainly think that this is true for many cheaters.

 

But, I also think that for some people, staying in the M and keeping some sort of relationship on the side (be it PA, EA, or EA+PA) is more of a coping mechanism (again - if you will). And, it ultimately becomes a crutch to a (any way you slice it) dishonest existence.

 

Is it still ultimately selfish?

Yes, I do believe it is. (Just as I do believe that you - allowing it - are ultimately an enabler.)

 

But one can be self-serving without being malicious. I think it is a way for someone who feels they have no really acceptable options to grasp at straws to try to keep what feels unbearable (the M) more bearable (with something "on the side," in whatever capacity that may manifest itself).

 

Again. I do not think this makes it right...because ultimately, the two people being "used" are not getting their fair due (be it knowingly, or unknowingly).

 

But I do think - in this context - it can sometimes be understandable.

 

Well, anyway, that's just me, I guess.

 

Anyway, OP. I think others are so right in telling you that you, too, must ultimately do what is right for YOU. You can not get time back. And unfortunately, we are not given the benefit of hindsight when we are in the midst of making (seemingly) irrevocable decisions. I feel for you, and wish you clarity of mind as you weigh your options. I do believe you must first be absolutely true to yourself. Good luck.

Haven't seen you around in a while MS. Very good post;)

[complicatedlife]

 

Let him know you are concerned about your "happiness" and if it's not a priority to him, you'll find someone who it will be a priority to...

 

Now....in all of my thinking, how come I never thought to tell him THAT? I'm so pre-occupied with how he feels....

[whichwayisup]

Start putting yourself first and stop worrying what he thinks and feels. He certainly isn't thinking of your feelings right now.

 

Spend time with your women friends, go out and have fun. Be with family and focus on you!

[GreenEyedLady]

Now....in all of my thinking, how come I never thought to tell him THAT? I'm so pre-occupied with how he feels....

 

It's easy to get pre-occupied:

 

YOU LOVE HIM!

 

Just don't forget you love yourself...And if he loves you, he'll pull it together...Just make it clear what he stands to lose:

 

YOU!

 

GEL

[OWoman]

He'd say something along the lines of, "What is right for me is to be with my kids and to be with you. How do I do both of those things without hurting so many people, and how do I choose one over the other - my happiness or my children's happiness?" To which I would reply: nothing! I wouldn't even begin to know how to answer that!

 

Setting up false dichotomies is intellectually lazy and emotionally dishonest. If his children's happiness and his own are really mutually exclusive, he should not have had children and should not continue to parent them as that really would be a recipe for disaster. But I think you'll find that he does allow SOME shades of grey in there, just not in a way that actually requires him to make a decision and take action.

[frannie]

my XMM said the same thing, that when hes w/ me he doesnt have to deal w/ the everyday bad reality of his M. but when he doesnt have me he misses me & realizes im the one he wants to be with & the one he loves talking to & listening to... so it makes him realise he needs to take the steps to be with me.

 

oh that is so screwed up. why doesnt he feel the need to be around me MORE when he does have me. why do i have to take it away for him to face that the reality he wants is w/ me. am i just a fantasy to him? i think so.

 

NES, this is the crunch question, isn't it? I have thought about this often, and I came to this conclusion (just the way it makes sense to me, anyway):

 

When we're involved with a MM, we think that they see their situation like this, as a choice between:

 

1) Staying in a bad marriage, where they claim to be unhappy, and losing us, the OW, who they claim to love and want to be with.

2) Leaving, and enjoying a new life, doing the right thing by everyone (however you want to word it or however you see it).

 

And logic would dictate that they would choose (2), surely? So we question ourselves (and their motives). But I think what they actually see themseves is a choice between:

 

1) Staying in this marriage, with OW here to make things bearable, i.e. maintain the status quo.

2) Leaving, taking a chance on the OW, and possibly hurting everyone to finish up losing everything I originally had if things don't work out.

 

Now, I am not very sure that I'd take that leap myself, number (1) looks far more attractive, and is far less trouble!!, even though it's not ideal at all.

 

But, in ending things with the MM, you take away that second option (1), leaving them with a very different scenario:

 

1) Stay in this marriage which I don't want to be in, knowing that OW is moving on now and I've lost her.

2) Leave, and have a potential future with her, whatever the risks...

 

Now, in this scenario, option (2) begins to look a little more attractive than option (1) (assuming that the MM is in love, and his marriage really isn't what he wants). Not saying that it means he'll automatically move out, far from it, but on the other hand, it does put his options on more or less equal footing, and in my view makes him actually leaving more likely than if you're hanging around there providing enough of his needs that he's happy enough to stay married.

 

I wish ...I could arrive at this place - it seems to take forever to get there both emotionally and mentally! It's doubly hard because I recently lost a friend and that makes it even more difficult to let this friend go. And he REALLY has been such a great friend.

 

CL, it took me almost 4 years to arrive at this place. I can see so much of me and xMM in you and your MM... the long discussions, the looking up information. Once I said to him do you think we'd actually have anything to talk about if it weren't for the 'sorting out the relationship' conversations , and for a while we thought... hmmmm maybe not! But that's the kind of people we are: could talk for hours about things, it was one of our favourite activities. But it got to a point about a year ago (when he was posting on here) when I'd had enough of all that. He once again didn't leave when we had set ourselves a deadline and I thought: no, let's just enjoy what we have now, and let it have its natural ending. I couldn't go NC at that point, it was too painful to contemplate.

 

So we had last summer, and it was fantastic. No more 'when are you leaving?' talk, just the assumption that eventually I'd get tired of it and be able to walk away. We managed to have long, involved conversations about lots of other things instead , and eventually... eventually... I got to the point where I needed him to leave but wasn't going to ask him again (didn't want to go through all that again!), by which time I was ready to let him go. It's now fully up to him what he does, with no pressure or involvement from me.

 

I think you just get to a point where you can put the focus on you, because depending on someone else's actions to make you happy and change your life is soul-destroying. I could eventually go NC knowing we'd done all the angles to death, and there was nowhere else for me to go.

 

I think Frannie's post earlier really hit the nail on the head with an important concept: a clarification, if you will, on what "cake-eating" really is for a lot of people.

 

The word ("cake-eating") has a very negative connotation. Meaning, it is something premeditated and, more importantly, malicious. It implies intent to selfishly use (and abuse) two other people.

 

I certainly think that this is true for many cheaters.

 

But, I also think that for some people, staying in the M and keeping some sort of relationship on the side (be it PA, EA, or EA+PA) is more of a coping mechanism (again - if you will). And, it ultimately becomes a crutch to a (any way you slice it) dishonest existence.

 

Is it still ultimately selfish?

Yes, I do believe it is. (Just as I do believe that you - allowing it - are ultimately an enabler.)

 

But one can be self-serving without being malicious. I think it is a way for someone who feels they have no really acceptable options to grasp at straws to try to keep what feels unbearable (the M) more bearable (with something "on the side," in whatever capacity that may manifest itself).

 

Again. I do not think this makes it right...because ultimately, the two people being "used" are not getting their fair due (be it knowingly, or unknowingly).

 

But I do think - in this context - it can sometimes be understandable.

 

I think this is a great post, which shows understanding of why some people are cheating. I've seen posts over in other sections of this forum from other 'cake-eaters' who admit that this is how they feel and why they're doing it. I certainly know that this was my xMM to a tee, and he admitted it, well 'admit' is the wrong word really! He fully stated that he needed things to be this way. And in all honesty, I was happy in many ways for it to be this way for as long as I could believe that he would leave at the earliest sensible opportunity.

 

He never left me in any doubt that he loved me, but needed to be there (yes, for his own self-serving reasons!) for the kids, even though, as I said, he was here half the week anyway! I was prepared for it to be that way, because why would I want those kids to be hurt just so he could be with me..?

 

BUT. Something inside kept nagging at me... no, no, no. I don't believe it is better for them if he stays. I believe it would be far better for everyone in our situation (xMM, W, children, and me) if he would leave and make a good job of leaving. There were a number of 'final straws' during last summer which pushed me further in that direction. ONe of them was when he said his W had complained that he wasn't there very often. I had always thought she didn't care... but that was evidence of the opposite, and I wasn't happy with that. I think I thought, if I can sacrifice my happiness so everyone else doesn't get hurt, then that's OK... but I was wrong about that, evidently.

 

Anyway, CL... in my experience there's not a lot you can do to move your feelings forward to a place where you'll be happy going NC with him. Yes, it is like losing a couple of limbs to be without someone you were so close to for so long. But when you get there, you'll know it, and it will be easier to contemplate (though still wrenchingly painful). All I can say is just keep having the conversations with him, so at least you'll be clear in your own mind that you did all you could while you were still together. That's how I look at my situation, anyway.