XMM emailed me at work. my response should be?

[pelicanpreacher]

And everything NewSunrise said!

[NewSunrise]

I would then take my evidence to HR to inform them of your uncertainty with MM's methods and innocently ask for a clarification of the rules on this matter (play dumb).

While I agree with this approach, the problem is compounded by the company's knowledge of your affair with the MM. The approach needs to be done with the adivse by a lawyer to protect you from repercussions which is essentially what the "whistle blower" is in placed for. Had you NOT been intimately involved regardless if done in secrecy, yeah, go straight to HR and do exactly as Pelican says. BUT....your A nulled that opportunity. Without a lawyer at your side, you could lose your job.

 

It's one thing to go into HR during your probationary period and play "dumb". It's another to go in beyond that period without arousing suspicion.

[NewSunrise]

And everything NewSunrise said!

You read my mind with regards to yours too!

[NewSunrise]

Of course, if you get the new job, 90% of your legal problem is over. The 10% liability, due to your inside knowledge of the MM's scams with your handwriting on contracts, you could still be called to testify and find you liable. The longer you remain there and continue to submit illegal charges with your handwriting the percentage of liability, charges and offense against you increases.

 

Remember, even mililtary personnel face court marshal for following their superior orders that goes against their Codes. Private sector is steeper.

[pelicanpreacher]

Of course, if you get the new job, 90% of your legal problem is over. The 10% liability, due to your inside knowledge of the MM's scams with your handwriting on contracts, you could still be called to testify and find you liable. The longer you remain there and continue to submit illegal charges with your handwriting the percentage of liability, charges and offense against you increases.

 

Remember, even mililtary personnel face court marshal for following their superior orders that goes against their Codes. Private sector is steeper.

 

Yeah!...Lets head to a NewSunrise on this!

[twice_shy]

i cant block him when he writes to me on work email. i AM at that point where i want to say F##K OFF though.

 

sure you can, especially if an exchange server is used at work. You can give the admin the email address and tell him to block it.

[neverendingsaga]

thx guys for the help. yesterday (when LS was down LOL) i figured out what im going to do. i am NOT ready to go head to head w/ him, i feel he has the power to ruin my career which is just starting out. i just want to keep walking away from him & be done w/ the affair, his crooked stuff at work, EVERYTHING. it is causing me a lot of stress & worry. i am going to go see a therapist, amazingly my biggest problem is no longer getting out of the personal relationship w/ him (or being torn & wanting to be in it stil-- i KNOW for sure that i dont want to be w/ him anymore), but its trying to figure out how i can get away from him PROFESSIONALLY too & still protect myself.

 

to answer some of your questions, i really dont want to give out to much info. about my job, but the way it works is i bill things to an acct but he (or whatever supervisor is in charge of the client that im charging) is ultimately in charge of overseeing the bill & sending it out to the client. so if i spend too much time on a project he or whatever supervisor can just cut out my time before they send it to a client. although this is discouraged as the company likes to make money & the main boss (but all the supervisors are like big bosses, w/ one really really big boss/ founder over all of them, if that makes sense) will go talk to the supervisor about why he cut out so much of my time if he does.

 

i really dont think anyone at my company would care that hes doing this, i think they would say, as long as the bills are getting paid. we dont work for free. etc. i wonder who else does this & im beg. to think everyone. no, there is no one here i trust enough to talk to about something like this. you have to understand, my job is important here & they like my work, but at the same time, i am at the very bottom of the totem pole, im just starting out, so they all have bonds w/ each other & they would def. side w/ a supervisor over me. i just do not have the energy to go after him right now, call me weak, i dunno, i just know thats not something im prepared to do. yes i had an affair w/ him & yes hes sleazy but i dont feel its my place to try to bring him down. i just want him to leave me alone.

 

so i am just going to bill all my time to the real acct for the projects i was working on. he didnt even give me those acct numbers but i got them from his secretary. the company can see everything i bill versus what gets sent out from the client. so if he moves my time from the clients' projects' accts to the general acct, well that is on HIM & him only. i will have nothing to do w/ it.

 

my approach to this is not to do anything wrong but not to go after him. i guess im a chicken but honestly this is causing me so much stress that i finally figured out to do it this way & at least i know my own consious is clear.

 

ty both for taking all that time to help me, i really apprecite it. the job i interviewed for contacted me regarding a 2nd interview so that is good... i just want to get out of here asap.

[neverendingsaga]

sure you can, especially if an exchange server is used at work. You can give the admin the email address and tell him to block it.

 

i have to get his work emails, like about work projects, so that wouldnt work. thanks though.

[pelicanpreacher]

 

so i am just going to bill all my time to the real acct for the projects i was working on. he didnt even give me those acct numbers but i got them from his secretary. the company can see everything i bill versus what gets sent out from the client. so if he moves my time from the clients' projects' accts to the general acct, well that is on HIM & him only. i will have nothing to do w/ it.

 

If billing is sent to clients by US Mail your company and all individuals involved also face Federal Mail Fraud...resulting in hefty penalties and fairly draconian criminal sanctions per count!

 

Since you don't have direct input on how billing is stipulated or performed, I'd think that you should be fairly safe from all of these shenanigans. But of course, always confer with legal council to be sure! If it is the case that you are immune to liability for their actions then playing it cool and making few waves would be in your best interest as you pursue employment elsewhere.

 

Good luck and "chin up" NES!

[twice_shy]

i have to get his work emails, like about work projects, so that wouldnt work. thanks though.

 

Well you can tell him to keep it business only and anything other than that violates company rules.

[Order & Chaos]

Well you can tell him to keep it business only and anything other than that violates company rules.

 

Twice Shy, if she won't approach HR or anyone else about this problem in general than this small part of it is not going to addressed. Secondly, it is only a violation of there is a company policy. This company may or may not have a policy on internet usage. It isn't always in there though usually is. Some companies only have a handbook for the stuff that they have to have in and rather not address other issues.

 

Shoot some companies think that if they don't have a handbook some how they aren't liable.

 

OP- Please remember that if he is doing this to you he may very well do it to someone else. I understand not wanting to ruin your career and bring this type of thing to light does take sacrifice and sometimes martyring yourself for it. But it is a hard decision. Please, regardless of when/if, just keep documenting everything and save everything. And remember you have 180 days to file with the EEOC.

[NewSunrise]

about my job, but the way it works is i bill things to an acct but he (or whatever supervisor is in charge of the client that im charging) is ultimately in charge of overseeing the bill & sending it out to the client. so if i spend too much time on a project he or whatever supervisor can just cut out my time before they send it to a client.

Are there any written policies regarding billings?

 

Are your billings SIGNED by your supevisor(s) prior to submission? Or do they just browse through your initial billings to see if the numbers check out? If it's the latter, on a business perspective, it's smart business even though slimy.

 

my job is important here & they like my work, but at the same time, i am at the very bottom of the totem pole,

This is catch 22. In the absense of billing policies where YOUR initial billings are not signed by an assigned supervisor, they "could" ultimately use you as the "fall guy" to minimize their liability. The question is "Was there at anytime did you EVER submitted a bill where the assigned supervisor did NOT review it?" If yes, your accountability and liability just skyrocketed.

 

The best thing to do is secure that job before you decide to take them on as you are doing.

 

For now, if you are not doing it, I highly suggest you get your assigned supervisor(s) to sign off even if it's just their initials on EVERY single job you do. Their signatures will legally exonerate you.

 

Like Pelican said, keep your "chin up".

[NewSunrise]

so i am just going to bill all my time to the real acct for the projects i was working on. he didnt even give me those acct numbers but i got them from his secretary. the company can see everything i bill versus what gets sent out from the client. so if he moves my time from the clients' projects' accts to the general acct, well that is on HIM & him only. i will have nothing to do w/ it.

I'm assuming you submit an "initial" billing statement. Secretary reviews it, makes necessary changes and then does "final" billing sent to clients, correct? Are you keeping copies of YOUR initial billings? As long as you are doing this, any discrepencies between your initial to the final billings will be their responsibilities and you should be fine.

 

Still, ensure that ALL of your initial bills are signed and authorized by your assigned supervisor.

[neverendingsaga]

If billing is sent to clients by US Mail your company and all individuals involved also face Federal Mail Fraud...resulting in hefty penalties and fairly draconian criminal sanctions per count!

 

Since you don't have direct input on how billing is stipulated or performed, I'd think that you should be fairly safe from all of these shenanigans. But of course, always confer with legal council to be sure! If it is the case that you are immune to liability for their actions then playing it cool and making few waves would be in your best interest as you pursue employment elsewhere.

 

Good luck and "chin up" NES!

 

i guess the bills are sent to the clients in the mail but i really dont know about that. i know what happens to the bills but im only in charge of one part of them- entering my own charges.

 

the only authority i have over my own charges (or anyone else's) is to enter them in my computer software. let me explain how it works. say my job involves knitting (it totally doesnt of course ha ha) and a client wants us to design & knit 3 scarves, of diff. colors & materials. i work on designing one of the scarves. then i enter into my own computer software what i did & the time it took to do it. i would enter:

 

"Analyze correspondence from client regarding request for scarves in preparation to begin designing one scarf." 1 hour. $350.00.

 

no one can change what i enter into this program except the person in charge of billings.

 

say XMM is in charge of that client's acct (or, just that project, b/c sometimes more than one supervisor works with the same client, and its billed by project). well at the end of the month the person in charge of billings sends XMM a bill with ALL the charges for that client on it. including charges entered by me for my work, charges entered by him for his own work, plus charges made by anyone else at any level that worked on that project. so it might have 30 hours & $10,500 work on it total, from everyone. but my part is just 5 hours. or whatever. everyone has different amts of work on the project & different rates to charge the client.

 

XMM is in charge of going through that master bill & deciding if all all the charges are good or if some need to be cut or some dont have good enough descriptions (like i cant just put 'design scarf' over & over & over). THEN he sends it to the client. so he can cut out my charges or he can request that the person in charge of billings transfer my charges to another acct of the clients- like to a diff. project or to there general acct or who knows, to my training hours acct if he wants to. he can do whatever he wants w/ them from there.

 

so that is why i decided that what he does w/ my charges is up to him. this could end up biting me in the butt b/c he could get mad that i didnt bill them to the gen. acct & so he could just cut them or move them to my training acct (i dont get the same credit for that). but i dont care, it is better than putting them in the wrong acct when i know i cant.

 

i mean, i DID hear him tell the client that they wont be billed for my work on that acct. so maybe is houldnt be entering it at all. but then i would lose a lot of hrs. so this puts it on him & if he comes tells me to change it im going to say, no, you can do that but i think it is a way to not have the client know there being charged for my work & im not going to do that. im going to bill my work for the project i work on which is what im supposed to do, & you do w/ it whatever you want from there.

 

this is a huge lesson to me to always be honest, i mean it makes me feel really good that at least --I'M-- doing the right thing- im doing the work he asked me to do & im billing it to the right project etc. & if he changes it there will be evidence that he changes it & even if theres not, --I-- have evidence on the software program of what i charged to what project, the computer cant lie.

 

plus if he asks the billing person to move so many of my hours (i mean its been a lot of hours already) from the specific project to the general acct that may raise eyebrows w/out me having to say anything. (thats why he'll prolly be mad at me.) but oh well. they will be talking to HIM about the bill, not me. they would only talk to me (if at all) if i enter it into the wrong acct & thats why im not doing that. im not going to take the fall for anything he does.

[neverendingsaga]

I'm assuming you submit an "initial" billing statement. Secretary reviews it, makes necessary changes and then does "final" billing sent to clients, correct? Are you keeping copies of YOUR initial billings? As long as you are doing this, any discrepencies between your initial to the final billings will be their responsibilities and you should be fine.

 

Still, ensure that ALL of your initial bills are signed and authorized by your assigned supervisor.

 

ok before i saw this post of yours i exlpained how it all worked in my last post. kind of like that but theres an intermediary step where it goes to my supervisor before it gets sent out.

 

yes i have all copies of my initial billings. basically its a printout from the software of all my time & charges entered for each client & project. thats why i decided to do it this way, b/c all i can make sure of is that I'M not doing the wrong thing. i might know hes doing the wrong thing but i dont think im under an obligation to do anything about it. (i hope). im just covering my butt so no one can come after me. plus i think its just plain wrong to lie to clients. the way i see this is its kind of like an affair ha ha-- hes telling them one thing & doing another deceptively, so that he can get his way & they wont find out about it. i guess hes good at that.

 

but yes i do have copies of everything i bill. what happens to my charges after that is out of my control, there is no way they could hold me responsible for it. i couldnt send a bill to client or change anyone else charges if i wanted to. all i can do is bill my own stuff.

[neverendingsaga]

OP- Please remember that if he is doing this to you he may very well do it to someone else. I understand not wanting to ruin your career and bring this type of thing to light does take sacrifice and sometimes martyring yourself for it. But it is a hard decision. Please, regardless of when/if, just keep documenting everything and save everything. And remember you have 180 days to file with the EEOC.

 

 

i know, ive thought about this. i have been mad at myself & him for doing this b/c it ended up sabotaging my career here. when i started i had such big hopes & dreams of staying here and climbing up the ladder (which was very attainable & still is, but i just cant deal w/ XMM anymore).

 

now i realised i crushed my own hopes & dreams by getting so involved w/ XMM. in the beg. he was so helpful to me & showed me how to do everything. (he still does but it uses it as a way to control me. & i think he overinvolves himself & messes stuff up either on purpose or just super carelessly just to show me he can 'fix' things for me w/ other supervisors).

 

i do wonder if he has down this to other women & if he will do it again. i am leaving b/c of it so in that regard it is bad for the company. but then i realise that the company doesnt care so why should i. i mean they know this is going on & they dont do a thing except hint to me to be quiet about it & keep doing my work... which is what ive been doing. so i dont want to work for this company anyway. i think it is corrupt & im ashamed i became apart of it. i didnt realise what i was doing till it was almost too late.

 

maybe one day i will have the strength to do something against him. right now its taking all my strength just to save my sanity while i still work here & walk away w/out having him sabotage me in the process. im not trying to sound like a victim b/c i certainly played a willing part. but looking back i was so naive & innocent, i totally believed him that he was in love w/ me & he was separated & getting divorced. i had no idea so much crap would happen. now that i know i will never ever fall for any lines again. the bad thing about this is i used to be so optimistic & now im a cynic. i have discovered that someone who is willing to lie & cheat is just plain not a good person. and i want to make myself a good person, not someone who hooks up w/ a liar & a cheater.

 

sorry for rambling.

[NewSunrise]

THEN he sends it to the client. so he can cut out my charges or he can request that the person in charge of billings transfer my charges to another acct of the clients- like to a diff. project or to there general acct or who knows, to my training hours acct if he wants to. he can do whatever he wants w/ them from there.

 

...so that is why i decided that what he does w/ my charges is up to him. this could end up biting me in the butt b/c he could get mad that i didnt bill them to the gen. acct & so he could just cut them or move them to my training acct (i dont get the same credit for that). but i dont care, it is better than putting them in the wrong acct when i know i cant.

 

This guy is a piece of work! What a lying SOB!

 

Gotta tell you though...when the dust settles, it still comes down to you having knowledge of his scam, bilking customers who expect "honest" service all the while you keeping quiet. Don't mean to come across righteous, but you're just as guilty as he is, ya know what I mean?

 

This is something you'll have to contend with....consciously....

[neverendingsaga]

This guy is a piece of work! What a lying SOB!

 

Gotta tell you though...when the dust settles, it still comes down to you having knowledge of his scam, bilking customers who expect "honest" service all the while you keeping quiet. Don't mean to come across righteous, but you're just as guilty as he is, ya know what I mean?

 

This is something you'll have to contend with....consciously....

 

i dont look at it that way, i dont think i have an obligation to tell anyone i heard him tell the client one thing & me another. i mean maybe a moral one yes but not a legal one. he is in charge of the client not me. i am only in charge of doing my job & billing for it.

 

i agree that telling someone would be the right thing to do morally but in this case doing the right thing will F me over professionally when i am trying to do the right thing personally (stop being in an A w/ him). he will make it so that i never eat lunch in this town again so to speak. and im sorry but im not willing to face that, i have to do whats best for me. he will get his in the end, i truly believe that, & i am already getting mine b/c i am in a heap of mental turmoil due to my stupid past decisions. it would have been way easier for me to keep playing along being his OW & i am proud of myself for getting this far... one thing at a time LOL. im finding that not being in an A w/ him anymore, E or P, means that now im dealing w/ new problems at work caused by him. well, i cant control what he does, i can only control what i do.

 

to me at this point i just have to make sure im not doing anything actively wrong, i dont feel i need to be in charge of righting his wrongs. that makes me feel stressed b/c i know its selfish and weak but right now it is the only way to get out of this place w/out bringing on even more drama. i could NOT deal w/ getting away from him personally AND calling him out professionally... the two dont go together. to get out of here i have to stay on his good side. but i myself will not do anything wrong in the process. i am done being that girl.

[neverendingsaga]

well today the other job called him as my reference. he started acting really weird. he yelled at me, cursed at me, hung up on me.

 

im afraid maybe he gave me a bad recommendation even though he always raves about me here & he always says he loves my work. he assigns me very important projects. yet he may have given me a bad reference just to keep me under his thumb.

 

well it wont work, i am leaving even if i have to work at mcdonalds. and in the meantime i am not going to talk to him at all. thats it. after he hung up on me & i was left bawling in my office i decided, i have had enough. i dont care what he does to me, i dont need him, he only makes my life hell and i dont want to say one more word to him ever. im not working on any more of his projects. he cant make me. whats he gonna do, tell someone i wont work for him b/c he screwed me & then screwed me over??

 

im going to work on re-establishing those other working relationships. never talking to him again is the best thing i can do for myself. and talking to him/ becoming involved w/ him in the first place was the worst thing i ever did for myself. i am done. there is just no pacifying him so why try.

[bentnotbroken]

Don't jump to conclusions yet. Maybe he gave you a glowing reference. Just be calm and think clearly. Don't act hastily. Relax and think about each move you make.

[Order & Chaos]

well today the other job called him as my reference. he started acting really weird. he yelled at me, cursed at me, hung up on me.

 

im afraid maybe he gave me a bad recommendation even though he always raves about me here & he always says he loves my work. he assigns me very important projects. yet he may have given me a bad reference just to keep me under his thumb.

 

well it wont work, i am leaving even if i have to work at mcdonalds. and in the meantime i am not going to talk to him at all. thats it. after he hung up on me & i was left bawling in my office i decided, i have had enough. i dont care what he does to me, i dont need him, he only makes my life hell and i dont want to say one more word to him ever. im not working on any more of his projects. he cant make me. whats he gonna do, tell someone i wont work for him b/c he screwed me & then screwed me over??

 

im going to work on re-establishing those other working relationships. never talking to him again is the best thing i can do for myself. and talking to him/ becoming involved w/ him in the first place was the worst thing i ever did for myself. i am done. there is just no pacifying him so why try.

 

Why on earth would you use him or your current company as a reference? No one would expect that of an employee. And why did you not go through the HR dept and not him? Why is anyone in your company doing employment verification/background checks outside of HR?

 

Listen there certain laws here, and it does vary on the state, country, etc but in the US it is not legal for him to give you a bad "report" outside of actual facts. In other words he can say, "she has been late to work every day this month" if that is a fact. If said employer is lying then that is most definitely grounds for a lawsuit, and with everything else here, another nail in the sexual harassment claim. You can ask the potential employer what was said.

 

Also if you have never come forward how has your employer/company not listened to you and told you to keep quiet (as you have indicated)? Have you said something to someone about it? And if you are leaving then why not when you leave bring things to light? You can file with the EEOC after you are gone.

 

You need to think straight here and be practical. Of course limit all interaction with him and minimize any possible avenues of "power" he may have. So for goodness sake don't use him as a reference!! Circumvent him whenever possible, and just lay low and do your job.

[neverendingsaga]

O&C- i work in a competitive professional field, it is not like im a waitress listing my previous restaurants i worked at. i dont have the option to not list this employer as my experience as it is my experience thus far after finishing school. this is my first job in my career therefore i have to have it as my reference-- the new job wont take me if i suck at this career LOL.

 

and XMM is my reference b/c they need to know the quality of my work & experience. the recruiter said to give the new job the name of someone who knows my work the best. they are going to want to know how i work on projects, the content of my work, etc. therefore they cant just talk to HR about whether or not im late (i dont even have a set schedule, it is all up to me as long as i do my projects & charge the clients for the work i do). i think your just not understanding how it works in my industry, they need professional references & XMM is def. the one who knows about my work the best. plus no one else knows im leaving except XMM. i obviously havent told anyone else im looking for another job or that would make things there awkward. i do have one other reference who already left my company for another that i will give them if they want to talk to someone else. i worked for him alot before he left & he knew & liked my work too.

 

in my field they can say anything they want about my work- like my projects are consistently good or bad, etc. my strengths & weakness are this & that, etc. i mean that is just how it is done. (but i give them the names to talk to, or they ask who knows my work best-- its not like they just call up an HR person & ask about me as an employee in general.) it is not a simple reference check, it is verifying that i have the experience i say i have in my resume & samples etc. so i hope this explains things better. believe me i have no choice or XMM would not be my reference. without XMM i cannot get another good job like this.

 

BNB- your right maybe it was a positive conversation i dunno. he called, texted & emailed me about 7 times about it but i ignored him. he left me a vm (well, several) saying he said all glowing things about my work & my experience & that the head of the group at the other job (who he knows professionally!!, it is an industry where everyone knows each other after awhile) indicated that i was the top candidate. but this could all be BS b/c hes a huge BS artist ya know. he could have told him i suck & told me he told him i rock. who knows. but thats what he said on his VMs. then he gave me all these reasons i NEEDED to call him back & talk to him (AFTER he had yelled at me & cursed & hung up on me), like he has confidential info. about why the last person in the position im applying for didnt cut it at the company, & what exactly he told the guy about me, & what the guy told him they expected out of the person in this position & why he thinks im among the select few candidates being called back for a second interview.

 

well i hope everything he says is true. if they call me back & like me then i have to go to a city in another state to get the approval of the company's managing partners. woo hoo! here i go LOL. i hate that this depends in large part on XMM, that is part of the reason im stressing about this, but he trained me & i learned everything through him & worked under him alot so he is someone they would need to talk to before hiring me. (plus i work very hard & im good at what i do & i did well at my interview & w/ my samples so its not like its ALL b/c of XMM). so i guess i SHOULD try to stay on his good side untill i get OUT of there, either w/ this job or another one.

[pelicanpreacher]

Be cool and never let'm see you sweat. Try to make copies of all voice mails he's left telling you that he left a glowing reference and try to really impress clients you do work for so they can be used as a lateral reference source. If this new job offer doesn't pan out then maybe you can provide copies of these voice mails along with direct references from clients you've established yourself with to enhance the opinion other potential employers have of you when new jobs open up. If he contradicts himself to others calling for references against his own endorsements along with the endorsements of direct clients then maybe this tactic can override his efforts to sabotage your efforts to get away from him!

[NewSunrise]

Be cool and never let'm see you sweat. Try to make copies of all voice mails he's left telling you that he left a glowing reference and try to really impress clients you do work for so they can be used as a lateral reference source. If this new job offer doesn't pan out then maybe you can provide copies of these voice mails along with direct references from clients you've established yourself with to enhance the opinion other potential employers have of you when new jobs open up. If he contradicts himself to others calling for references against his own endorsements along with the endorsements of direct clients then maybe this tactic can override his efforts to sabotage your efforts to get away from him!

I second this recommendation!

 

If I were him, and knowing what you know of me (HIM) I'd be stupid to give you a less than stellar recommendation. So, if he knows what's good for him, he will make sure your get the job. Start packing NES!

[mzd]

Don't respond. It really isn't worth it. I got emailed again a month ago after 4 months of NC. I thought things had changed - they hadn't. This time, I really let him have it!! I told him never to contact me again. For me, it gave me much needed closure and I have gone on to date again and meet some really wonderful guys. I still have some feelings for him, but they are diminishing every day.

 

He is trying to guilt trip you and it's working. Why the hell should you respond to him, it's not like he's treated you with any respect, he's totally had it his own way! No response will drive him crazy, if you want revenge, but my advice is - any guy who is taken and who is resorting to guilt tactics is not worth your time and tears.