Wanting a Taken man

[Owl]

Hi Owl,

 

I don't disagree that the only way to indicate explicitly your intentions is to communicate. However, I have some other comments.

 

I think that the expectation of exclusivity in a bf/gf romantic relationship is a social norm, it is not a contract that includes long term commitment. We may all end up permanently tied to the first person we kissed if we try to make that stick and that would be a disaster!

 

It is like an invitation to try out the goods so that both parties can work out if this is the model they want to buy into, ie to consider whether they want to make a long term committed relationship investment. The social norm is that you will have enough respect to give each one a try alone, to get a good perspective. If your head is turned by the BBD (Bigger Better Deal) then so be it, you move on, there is nothing to stop you doing so. By terming it an implied CONTRACT we are moving to the idea that there is a perceived commitment on both sides to a long term relationship, and that is not applicable in our understanding of bf/gf relationships. That's why the love stories meander through trials and tribulations to the marriage bed - there is a social sanction of a committed relationship in living together an explicit contractualisation of living arrangements. Bf/gf do not meet that level of commitment - indeed there is no commitment except to try each other out. That is why one party or other sometimes gets desperate to tie another down, they know that there is no deal done, even though engaged etc until they've moved in or got married.

 

I think the issue is the interpretation of what the guy did - he sat up and chatted all night with the OP and suggested that he may like to find out more about her. That, in and of itself is not cheating, it is making a social contact and testing the waters to see if the interest is mutual. If he is seriously interested and feels his interest in the gf pales into insignificance then he should drop her immediately he recognises his feelings and not play them both at the same time. If he proceeds to see them both at once then social censure is applicable and both girls would have a right to feel hard done by. That said his behaviour is not bound by a contract of commitment to one girl only by social norms of exclusivity for the test period. If he is deemed committed to his gf by the fact of the relationship then anything he does is cheating the relationship even though there is no intention to stay together forever and that guilting out of people is not really socially beneficial to anyone. It's normal to test out what's available to get the best you can.

 

Telling someone they are bad because they chatted someone up, who could potentially be their future spouse, is control freakery. Shagging them and keeping two going at once is undesirable behaviour.

 

I get your point. Do you think he owes it to his gf to tell her that he's potentially interested in someone else? Do you think that he should verify with his gf their "understanding" of their relationship in case he does opt to pursue a relationship with the OP? To ensure that she's not hurt by any potential misunderstanding this his relationship with her could well be a 'stepping stone' onto another relationship, such as with OP?

[pentacle]

hmm. My experience is that most of us ordinary individuals want to love and be loved and don't seek to hurt others purposely. Often when we meet others that attract us it is a surprise and overwhelming. I think that that initial stage is not something we should condemn people for if they are single and available in our conception of the term ie not married. It is the behaviour in the next stage that should be more scrutinised and says more about the morality of the individuals concerned - how they proceed and treat others.

 

I totally agree that the current gf should be made aware of the attraction which gives her a choice in what she wants to do. I think the very fact that this attraction is open brings the discussion to the nature of their own relationship especially where one or both are in a state of confusion about what they really feel. To me it's all the same discussion. That said, I think that kind of directness happens more often in older people than in the young and rampant who blow with their feelings and hormones. This is part of what younger people learn in the course of their romantic dealings with others, how to have those kinds of discussions.

[nadiaj2727]

wow i didnt know id become the subject of such a debate LOL. i dont know whether to be flattered or embarased. FWIW i think you both gave the same definition of hypocrisy & i dont fit into it. if i were currently a OW saying, dont be w/ a commited man, then yes id be a hypocrite -- i guess unless i was saying, DONT do what im doing b/c its not smart, or something. but im not a OW so just B/C i once was one to me doesnt mean i cant say not to be one. maybe thats all the more reason for me to say not to be one?? like DONT do what i did b/c it wasnt smart.

 

but what i think is most hilarious is i wasnt even saying anything like dont be w/ a committed man or talking about myself or my own situation. i was just trying to comment on the subject at hand like everyone else. i just said i think this g/f thinks shes in a commited R w/ this b/f & its sad if she thinks hes comited but hes trolling for a new g/f w/out telling her. thats all i ever said (& yes its sad that my XMM was w/ me w/out telling his wife... maybe all she wanted me to do was add that in there toO?? who knows?) & now theres this huge debate!!

 

thx twice-shy for sticking up for me, i dont know why she felt need to pick on me but i saw in another forum she called someone who used to cheat & doesnt anymore 'pious' so maybe she doesnt understnad that some ppl learn from there mistakes & change. i dont take it personaly ever since i saw her do it to someone else to, i guess its just her thing, but thx for explaining how im not a hyprocrite, i agree w/ you FWIW!

 

NES, that happens all the time on here. It's like personal growth and personal responsibility and getting back in touch with a set of standards you used to live by before you were threw them all away to get involved with a married man isn't applauded by a few people, who only like to "support" the whiny self-centered posters that say "oh boo hoo he's still married, what should I do while he's deciding whether he wants his wife or me?" How dare an OW come along and say "I've realized what I was doing was wrong, and I've changed, and I'm advising you not to do what I did." (I haven't read all your posts but it sounds from TS' posts in here that that's what you've been saying.) I did the same thing and all of a sudden I was a preachy hyprocrite like you are too all of a sudden. I've been called a lot worse (apparently I'm akin to the ever-so-hated Born Again Christians ) but you've handled it a lot better than I did. Even your buddy TS thinks I'm once a cheater, always a cheater. (But I still think he's a cool guy. And his posts here are showing me that maybe he's starting to come around and realize that some people really are sorry and they really do change...??? Or else i'm just being optimistic!).

 

I think that all the nay-saying that goes on when someone changes for the better just goes to show that change can ONLY come from within. Some people don't WANT you to change. Some people don't believe you ever can. Some people are skeptical because of your past actions (which is understandable). Some people are bothered by the fact that you truly want to have values and they accuse you of being too black and white etc. Oh well. Ignore the haters. They are miserable or they wouldn't be spending so much time singling out the one who grew.

 

Sounds like you're on the right track. You'll find that the hardest and the BEST thing you will ever do is to change back into the good, honorable decent person you were before you started blurring your boundaries and justifying participating in the betrayal of another person and in compromising what you know you deserve, a relationship with a fresh honest start! Some people will hate you because your past actions were wrong and some people will hate you for saying that they were wrong! It sometimes feels like a no-win situation. But you know who you are. I don't think you need this advice because you sound strong, but in case you get down like I sometimes did when I was no longer an OW and I felt unwelcome in here by some, I am just giving you this advice. Don't let your bad past decisions define you as a person no matter who thinks they should. Let your present actions and decisions define you and you will have every right to feel good about yourself. It doesn't matter how other people see you, it matters how you see you, and you sound like you're doing great to me.