In Over My Head

[Owl]

I commend you on taking that huge first step.

 

I caution you tho...attempting to rebuild a marriage without revealing the affair is nearly always fruitless.

 

Its like trying to build a house around the elephant that's sitting in the middle of the living room...without acknowledging that its there.

[MrIndependent]

BUT in order to be happy... you have to get your passion somewhere else... so if I were you.. I would get a new OW... this way you will be happy at home with your roomate and kids and you will get that passion, great sex, excitement and love you soooo crave for...

 

Thanks, I wish it were that simple! It is so tempting to think this is the answer and I know many guys live like this quite happily. My first reaction when my A broke up was to think 'right I'll get another OW - that will at least ease the pain'. But I have come to the conclusion I'm broken in some way and this would just be more running away from the problem. Yeah it would solve the sex problem but sex to me is only really enjoyable when there is emotional attachment involved and it's hard for love to exist in a secretive environmet. Both my A's have come about because I fell in love and relationships are what I crave. Maybe I'm an addict.

[Lookingforward]

Thanks, I wish it were that simple! It is so tempting to think this is the answer and I know many guys live like this quite happily. My first reaction when my A broke up was to think 'right I'll get another OW - that will at least ease the pain'. But I have come to the conclusion I'm broken in some way and this would just be more running away from the problem. Yeah it would solve the sex problem but sex to me is only really enjoyable when there is emotional attachment involved and it's hard for love to exist in a secretive environmet. Both my A's have come about because I fell in love and relationships are what I crave. Maybe I'm an addict.

 

I don't know that needing to be in an R where one loves and feels loved in return is an addiction.........

[smartgirl]

I don't know that needing to be in an R where one loves and feels loved in return is an addiction.........

 

I agree, but I don't think the kind of relationship you describe is exactly the kind that people get addicted to. What I believe you are refering to is a real, healthy kind of love where you know the other person well and you are comitted to working together through the good times and the bad.

 

There are people who constantly seek the new, falling-in-love feeling you get at the beginning of a relationship. They are attracted to it for the high and the fact that at the beginning of relationships you can feel so in love and it all seems effortless. It is when relationships start to get "real" with some effort and give and take involved that they start losing interest. From what I read, this is actually a classified type of addiction. I don't know that this poster truly suffers from this disorder, but then again, maybe he does.

[MrIndependent]

OK, things are getting worse rather than better. I'm missing OW more and more, it's just eating away at me. I love her so much. I can't concentrate on improving my M when I feel like this. I have keyed in her number many times today and just managed to stop myself form calling her. I know when I hear her voice that will be it. I won't be able to stop all the feelings flooding back. Don't know what to do, am pacing the floor, feeling like my stomach will explode. I've truly never felt like this in my life and I'm scared. How could I allow her to have such power over me? This sucks.

[whichwayisup]

Right now you have a choice. Whatever you do, don't cave and call the OW, that just isn't fair to your wife. I suggest you call your therapist, make an appointment and also include your wife in how you are feeling these days. Remember, this isn't about what your wife is or isn't doing, this is about you right now. Don't put ANY blame on your wife, that she isn't doing enough to stop you from thinking about the OW.

 

You may need to separate with your wife to figure things out - But, the problem I see with that is, you won't use that time to think, you'll use that time to BE with the OW.

 

Please don't cave right now - Call your T, talk to your wife.

[whichwayisup]

How could I allow her to have such power over me? This sucks.

 

Because all that you're basing this on is how the OW makes YOU feel. You calling the OW right now also isn't fair to her - She knows you're back with your wife, trying to save the marriage, so keep in mind not only will this affect your wife, but the OW as well. Get your ego and feelings in check otherwise this is going to turn into a disaster and cause alot more pain.

 

Ask yourself this, do you really KNOW the OW? Aside from the sex, intense feelings - Do you know her? What type of person she is? Is she kind, generous, giving? Is she the type of person who is trustworthy long term? Someone who compliments you in the sense of making YOU a better person? Is she worth throwing away your marriage?

[Owl]

Wow...all these pages, and I've posted the same advice everytime.

 

Mr I...again...you're tempted to break. That's because you have no one to hold you acocuntable for your actions.

 

Why do you think that they assign partners in AA???

 

In this case, your WIFE should be your partner. But you're still selfishly denying her that opportunity. You're still witholding the truth, and you're still trying to do this on your own.

 

The "on your own" approach got you INTO the affair in the first place.

 

Seriously...step up. Man up. Tell your wife the truth, even if you don't disclose it to anyone else because of what this 'might do to your reputation'.

 

Why don't you take the steps you NEED to do in order to shift your focus to where it SHOULD BE...off the OW, and ONTO YOUR WIFE?!?!?!

 

I'm serious...MAN UP ALREADY.

[Mustang Sally]

OK, things are getting worse rather than better. I'm missing OW more and more, it's just eating away at me. I love her so much. I can't concentrate on improving my M when I feel like this. I have keyed in her number many times today and just managed to stop myself form calling her. I know when I hear her voice that will be it. I won't be able to stop all the feelings flooding back. Don't know what to do, am pacing the floor, feeling like my stomach will explode. I've truly never felt like this in my life and I'm scared. How could I allow her to have such power over me? This sucks.

Ok, Mr I.

 

I'm going to say this one (more?) time.

 

It is dishonest (in my opinion) to begin and feed a relationship of the "love" variety while you are intertwined in another relationship with another person (for you, this would be your wife).

 

And I happen to believe, that although there are those people for whom this has worked (and likely, you will find and hear from them here) no (or at the very least, incredibly FEW) good relationship can develop without you starting with honest and reputable beginnings. You need a reasonable foundation to build a healthy relationship. Not an illicit one.

 

If you must pursue a relationship with your OW (has she changed her tune with you, to lead you to believe that she wants this, also?), then you owe it to ALL involved - you, your wife, your kids, your OW and her family - to do so after you have CONCLUDED and had a period of (re)ADJUSTMENT from your current marriage.

 

And I believe that you know this, deep down, too.

Stay strong - you owe it to yourself to do this the right way.

[MrIndependent]

Right now you have a choice. Whatever you do, don't cave and call the OW, that just isn't fair to your wife. I suggest you call your therapist, make an appointment and also include your wife in how you are feeling these days. Remember, this isn't about what your wife is or isn't doing, this is about you right now. Don't put ANY blame on your wife, that she isn't doing enough to stop you from thinking about the OW.

 

You may need to separate with your wife to figure things out - But, the problem I see with that is, you won't use that time to think, you'll use that time to BE with the OW.

 

Please don't cave right now - Call your T, talk to your wife.

 

I'm not blaming my wife for this - far from it. I want to get back my feelings for her - I just don't know how. It seems I am obsessed.

[MrIndependent]

Wow...all these pages, and I've posted the same advice everytime.

 

Mr I...again...you're tempted to break. That's because you have no one to hold you acocuntable for your actions.

 

Why do you think that they assign partners in AA???

 

In this case, your WIFE should be your partner. But you're still selfishly denying her that opportunity. You're still witholding the truth, and you're still trying to do this on your own.

 

The "on your own" approach got you INTO the affair in the first place.

 

Seriously...step up. Man up. Tell your wife the truth, even if you don't disclose it to anyone else because of what this 'might do to your reputation'.

 

Why don't you take the steps you NEED to do in order to shift your focus to where it SHOULD BE...off the OW, and ONTO YOUR WIFE?!?!?!

 

I'm serious...MAN UP ALREADY.

 

I have always been fiercely independent (the clue is in my name) so it's sometimes hard for me to accept help. What should I do then, tell my wife I am in love with someone else but I want to work on the marriage? I can't see that working somehow.

[MrIndependent]

Because all that you're basing this on is how the OW makes YOU feel. You calling the OW right now also isn't fair to her - She knows you're back with your wife, trying to save the marriage, so keep in mind not only will this affect your wife, but the OW as well. Get your ego and feelings in check otherwise this is going to turn into a disaster and cause alot more pain.

 

Ask yourself this, do you really KNOW the OW? Aside from the sex, intense feelings - Do you know her? What type of person she is? Is she kind, generous, giving? Is she the type of person who is trustworthy long term? Someone who compliments you in the sense of making YOU a better person? Is she worth throwing away your marriage?

 

I think the answer to this is no and that doesn't make sense I know. She is trustworthy certainly but kind, generous, giving - I'm not sure. She has emotional problems and problems showing affection which she has been very honest about. I suppose I find her failings attractive and she has shared some extremely deep personal issues with me. Now you will say I'm foolish but we can't help who we fall in love with.

[whichwayisup]

I'm not blaming my wife for this - far from it. I want to get back my feelings for her - I just don't know how. It seems I am obsessed.

 

If you want to get your feelings back for your wife then you HAVE to stop obsessing and thinking about the OW. You have to continually make the effort to PUSH thoughts OUT of your head about the OW. Change your thinking patterns, work hard at MAKING time for your wife, bonding with her, talking to her, recapturing that love which was once there.

 

I have always been fiercely independent (the clue is in my name) so it's sometimes hard for me to accept help. What should I do then, tell my wife I am in love with someone else but I want to work on the marriage? I can't see that working somehow.

 

You make a choice and you stick to it. If you want your marriage to work, you have to be really tough on yourself and MAKE yourself let go of the OW. No more thinking or wishing or fantasizing about her.

 

You can't stay in limbo, want to love your OW and stay in your marriage. Life doesn't work that way...You need to choose who you want.

 

I think the answer to this is no and that doesn't make sense I know. She is trustworthy certainly but kind, generous, giving - I'm not sure. She has emotional problems and problems showing affection which she has been very honest about. I suppose I find her failings attractive and she has shared some extremely deep personal issues with me. Now you will say I'm foolish but we can't help who we fall in love with.

You can't help who you fall inlove with but you CAN control if you DO something about that love.

 

So, you really don't "know" the OW that well. Just because she shared some personal details about her life doesn't make her a "wonderful trustworthy" person.

 

I will say you're foolish if you cave and call her because it's ALL about you if you call.

[Owl]

I have always been fiercely independent (the clue is in my name) so it's sometimes hard for me to accept help. What should I do then, tell my wife I am in love with someone else but I want to work on the marriage? I can't see that working somehow.

 

If you don't want advice...what do you hope to gain from posting here?

 

As to telling your wife...well, you tell me...surely you can think of a better way to go about this?!?!?!

 

Why don't you actually try to sit down and think about what MIGHT work??? Even if it doesn't work...at least you'll be honest with her for a change. Being honest is a good place to start to make a change...

 

You're carrying on like there's something unique in your situation that prevents the truth from coming out. Sorry, but I'm calling bull-doody on that! There is NOTHING in what you've described that makes your situation any different from the hundreds of others we've seen here. Not at all.

 

Here's the harsh reality for you. You made this situation you're in. YOU WERE THE ONE WHO CHEATED. Recognize that. Realize that your relationship with OW is OVER ALREADY. Yes, that sucks. And I can well imagine how much it hurts...just like the loss of ANY 'love affair' relationship will hurt.

 

Seriously...grow up. You realize you've made a mistake. An ADULT admits it, takes responsibility for it, and takes measures to fix it.

 

Stop sitting here and focusing only on yourself. That's what led to your affair to begin with. A MAN has responsibilities for more than just himself...start meeting up to those responsibilities and obligations. Start by assessing what you need to do from here.

 

Stop looking for the reasons why you "can't" (read, don't want to)...and start looking for the ways to DO what you need to do.

 

Once you stop feeling sorry for yourself and actually take action to fix things, you'll be amazed at how quickly that will help you truly move on and recover. Sitting where you're at now will just prolong all of that.

[nadiaj2727]

Thanks, I wish it were that simple! It is so tempting to think this is the answer and I know many guys live like this quite happily. My first reaction when my A broke up was to think 'right I'll get another OW - that will at least ease the pain'. But I have come to the conclusion I'm broken in some way and this would just be more running away from the problem. Yeah it would solve the sex problem but sex to me is only really enjoyable when there is emotional attachment involved and it's hard for love to exist in a secretive environmet. Both my A's have come about because I fell in love and relationships are what I crave. Maybe I'm an addict.

 

It's good that you realize this. Because to get another OW would just be using another woman (and continuing to hurt the first woman-- your wife) in an obviously futile attempt to fix what's broken inside you. You can only rely on yourself to fix that, not run from the probelm into the arms of a never-ending string of OWs...

[nadiaj2727]

I don't know that needing to be in an R where one loves and feels loved in return is an addiction.........

 

This one sounds like an addiction to me because OP makes comments like "I feel so obsessed" and "why do I let her have this power over me"? A relationship "where one love and feels loved in return" is not supposed to be like that... this is definitely more like an addiction.

 

It goes to show that this is less about the "relationship" between OP and OW and more about OP's attempts to run away from his own problems with himself and ignoring them by getting swept up into the excitement of OW... which is like when a drug addict or alcoholic seeks to do the same thing only with drugs or alcohol... it is classic withdraw symptoms. Again, real love is not supposed to be that way. A person must be able to stand on his own two feet and solve his own problems before they can ever be in one of those good relationships anyway.

[Lookingforward]

This one sounds like an addiction to me because OP makes comments like "I feel so obsessed" and "why do I let her have this power over me"? A relationship "where one love and feels loved in return" is not supposed to be like that... this is definitely more like an addiction.

 

It goes to show that this is less about the "relationship" between OP and OW and more about OP's attempts to run away from his own problems with himself and ignoring them by getting swept up into the excitement of OW... which is like when a drug addict or alcoholic seeks to do the same thing only with drugs or alcohol... it is classic withdraw symptoms. Again, real love is not supposed to be that way. A person must be able to stand on his own two feet and solve his own problems before they can ever be in one of those good relationships anyway.

 

guess you're right - only one is "real love" the other must be an "addiction" - funny how that works

[nadiaj2727]

guess you're right - only one is "real love" the other must be an "addiction" - funny how that works

 

Not sure if your post is supposed to be sarcastic or serious. *shrug* Knowing you it is most likely a sarcastic potshot instead of an attempt to give any serious consideration to someone else's thoughts.

 

Regardless in this case, basing it on OP's own unique situation as OP himself has stated and alluded to... which I took the time to quote but hey who cares right... the relationship is an addiction. Representative of something within him more than anything. If he looks within he will find his way out. Good luck Mr. Independent.

[OpenBook]

Hey, everybody's points are valid here. Even when we disagree with each other.

 

And here I am chiming in with mine!! It sounds to me like Mr. Independent is projecting a whole bunch of stuff onto his OW. Virility, passion, feeling alive. She has brought it all out in him. What he isn't realizing is, it's always been there inside him... Just buried maybe? With all the day-to-day worries and tasks and responsibilities of the care & feeding of a family. Totally understandable. But he's gotta find a way to bring it back to the surface.

 

In this case, I wholeheartedly agree with Nadjia - the answers lie within Mr. Independent, not from an outside source.

 

I haven't read this thread closely, so I'm not sure if Mr. I is in IC -- but I think it might be the best approach right now. Maybe he should really be focusing on himself -- sorting it all out on his own, with the help of a trained and objective professional guiding him through it -- and without his W or OW involved at all. It just seems like he's just thrashing around in agony right now, going nowhere and not resolving anything, like a fish on the beach gasping for air.

 

It would be a shame, IMO, for him to make life-changing decisions while he's in this extremely volatile state of mind. He needs to get back into deeper waters so he can breathe and swim again, calmly and purposefully. THEN he would be able to make wise decisions about his life and its future direction.

 

(Mr. I, forgive me for talking about you in the third person. It was easier to write it that way... and hopefully easier for you to read, not being so directly pointed at you!!)

[Lookingforward]

Not sure if your post is supposed to be sarcastic or serious. *shrug* Knowing you it is most likely a sarcastic potshot instead of an attempt to give any serious consideration to someone else's thoughts.

 

Regardless in this case, basing it on OP's own unique situation as OP himself has stated and alluded to... which I took the time to quote but hey who cares right... the relationship is an addiction. Representative of something within him more than anything. If he looks within he will find his way out. Good luck Mr. Independent.

 

Not meaning to t/j but you're wrong - you don't "know" me at all, so please don't presume to be able to dissect my posts - thanks - and for the record I was serious..........

[whichwayisup]

That was a good post OB!

[pelicanpreacher]

In reading about the scant history regarding your wife that you've disclosed in your threads Mr. I think the reason you feel so unappreciated in your marriage may have something to do with your first affair. I believe your wife may have built a shell around her feelings that you haven't been able to penetrate with all your "good deeds" after-the-fact and this has bred resentment in you. Yes, you've also had to contend with raising two difficult children and have had issues with your parents throughout the course of your marriage but, its been your inability to connect as deeply and passionately with your wife, after demonstrating your attempt at redemption by working hard for your family, that lies at the core of your frustration.

 

Maybe if you'd have invested your time reading books like "Men Are From Mars, Women Are From Venus" you might have been able to arm yourself with the information needed to determine the right approach to achieve the closeness you craved with your wife. Instead of having "the talk" you've recently initiated with your wife (and I do applaud you on your approach by the way) you've deepened the complication of restoring your marriage by having yet another affair. Unless you are a consumate liar, I'm sorry to inform you but your wife has already lived this experience before and has seen the signs of your affair so she's not as fooled as you think she is! After being married this length of time, she has achieved her PHD on you and knows you, your patterns, your moods, what you're supposed to be doing, and where you're suppose to be as well as you do by now! The details of surrounding your affair and how you feel about this OW may be a revelation but the actual deception has been figured out a long time ago...believe that! The only question that remains is why she's chosen to stay in the marriage knowing what she knows?

 

It will be interesting how she plays this drama out as you proceed into further discussions to repair your marriage so brace yourself for a little bad news of your own. Remember, when you checked out of your marriage your wife may have checked out as well!

[theobserver]

You've had some talks with your wife that's good but you know what, you had that indepth discussion with your wife you both discovered neither of you are happy you've now come to the conclusion you should both probably make it work. What's silly here is you still were not 100% truthful, for all you know like her she's just waiting .. waiting for that one thing that can confirm your both just no longer compatible and haven't been for years what I mean is you should of spoken of your infidelity. Wether you are in love with this OW as you truely believe is beyond the point right now your in this marriage with the wife for the sake of the children.

 

That is a very sad existance once you and your wife realise this isn't working and as you continue to see the OW during the next few years and don't kid yourself you will (because your so depressed and unhappy I can feel it through the damn screen. no prozac, or more drugs will help) go to the OW again.

 

It's good to say think of the children but there comes a time you need to think our yourselfs. You just don't have to be an ******* and abandon them. Sit down with your wife, tell the truth after a possible eruption of anger make a commitment that support will not stop, discuss who is going to keep the children as the main parent. Will you move out can you mantain their lifestyles? Sadly this is what this will mostly come down to keeping everyones lifestyle and then being able to set yourself and your wife free. If the children are mature and you and your wife act mature this can be a positive transition.

 

Do not think your children are dumb unless they are blissfully unaware they will have noticed your depression and distance. If you both handle this with respect for eachother and the children they will not lose love (apart from maybe the cheating but you know what, deal with it it's done and they'll always be a bit of resentment).

 

This family is already broken way before the day you dropped your pants.Suffering in silence for so long is sad nobody knows it yet is all and your under the delusion it can be fixed.

 

I think what you really love about this woman is everything she's bringing out in you, as said somewhere above, dormant feelings that have been dead for years. It's not about her really it's your need to be free you are unsatisfied and unforfilled and it is not selfish to admit. You feel guild because of the vows you toon and the children you created. Sadly you are not a monster but are human, it's just sad you had to take the cheating route what your doing now is making your wife a prisoner while you occassionally will have moments of freedom she has been given this false hope that everything may be ok with counselling OR being more open about eachothers feelings and you've already failed that by lieing and secretly still wanting this OW regardless you want to stop but for the wrong reasons.

 

 

Good Luck whatever happens from here on.

[smartgirl]

Observer,

 

Your post is eloquent and well thought out, but I don't believe it really applies to this poster. This OW is not the answer to his problems. Though he says he is obsessed with her, he has also said she is emotionally distant, has "power" over him and has told him she doesn't want him to leave his wife and she doesn't want to see him anymore. The vibe I get from those comments and others is that he wants more than she is willing to give and so far she has been unable to get through to him on that. If this guy was single and the focus of the thread was just on his relationship with this woman, I think most of us would be telling him it is an unhealthy, unbalanced relationship and he needs to try harder to move on.

 

But alas, we have the complication here of a wife, marriage, children and a man who is serially looking for happiness through others. By that, I don't mean that he is looking for happy relationships. I feel this poster has some complicated personality issues that cause him to see others as the source of his happiness or unhappiness. He tries to pull good feelings from others without necessarily giving much back in return -- emotionally I mean. Since that isn't a workable solution for the long term, he needs to create new "relationships" on an ongoing basis to try and get more good feelings.

 

I don't think either woman is the solution to Mr. I's problems. That kind of thinking continues to focus his attention on external forces when the real problem is internal. Many of us have advised this poster to sort himself out before he tries to do any relationship work. Some feel he should separate from his family while he does this, others think that isn't necessary. I think some help from his counselor would be beneficial since we don't really have the full story.

 

I think this situation is much more fundamental and troubling than an affair. I think this is about a man that has trouble truly connecting with others on an emotional level. In order to do that, you have to expose your true self and be willing to be honest and open and to care as much about what is in the best interests of the other person as you do about yourself. I don't think Mr I can get there so he gravitates to more easily obtained and superficial feelings in his search for happiness.

 

I think his attention would be best focused on himself rather than continuing to involve and hurt others.

[marlena]

Mr I,

 

I think that you need some time away from everyone to sort out your feelings and then act on them with courage and determination. You may be surprised at what you discover when you walk down that road alone.