Is my friend scared, shy, or just not interested?

[andraile]

I'm usually *really* good at telling when other people are interested in each other. But I am notoriously TERRIBLE at telling when other people are into me. So, I'm going to lay out a story for you lovely folks, and get your opinions. The questions to bear in mind as you read this are: does he like me? and, if so, is it worth taking the plunge? I apologize in advance for the length. ><

 

Ok. So, there's this guy (Sean). I've known him for quite a while now; my best girlfriend (Monique) dated his best friend (Joe) back when I was still in high school (I'm just shy of 25 now, he's 28, so I've known him for almost eight years). I didn't know him all that well back then, but Monique had a crush on him, which I heard all about, and Joe had a crush on me, which Sean heard all about, so we both knew quite a bit OF each other. Anyway, Monique and Joe eventually broke up, (though they're still friends now) and Sean and Joe moved away, and I basically forgot Sean even existed for several years. I'd never seen why Monique was so ga ga for him, and told her as much.

 

Some time later, he met another friend of mine (Lisa) and they began dating. About a year into their relationship, I moved up to the town where my whole old group of friends was (still is) living, and got to know him a LOT better, but only in group settings. In the meantime, Monqiue was still nursing the crush she had on him. In fact, had Sean not dated Lisa for such a long time, Monique may well have jeopardized her engagement to have a fling with him. He's sort of her "what if" guy - the guy she always liked but never dated, which makes her wonder what might have happened if they had. Fortunately, she didn't, and is now happily married, but I'm pretty sure she still harbors some of that crush, because one night when Sean and I were hanging out with Monique and her husbad, she got really mad at me for "laughing at all of his jokes." And that sucks, because I'd love to talk to her about this, but I can't.

 

So anyway, Sean and Lisa dated for almost five years. A couple of months ago, we all had a big party. By midnight or so, everyone had gone home except for myself, Monique, her husband (Greg, who is also one of my very best friends), and Sean. The four of us hung out, bonded, got very drunk together, and had a ball. Over the course of the night, it was revealed that Sean and Lisa were not only breaking up, but that their relationship had been over in basically all but name for a really long time. Since then, the four of us have hung out quite a bit, and he and I have hung out just the two of us quite a bit. We've never actually hung out one on one before - it's always been in a big group setting. We're discovering that we actually have far more in common than we'd ever suspected. We never seem to run out of things to talk about, and we always have a great time together.

 

He and Lisa (who is my friend, and was even before they started dating) are still living together. They're in a lease together through the end of next month, plus she's been working on wrapping up her bachelor's degree so they didn't want to deal with the break up, so instead they've been basically just not talking to each other. They finally had The Talk just over a week ago, and he moved into the spare bedroom. She seems to have almost completely moved on, up to and including having a crush/flirty friendship with another guy. It seems like Sean's hanging on to the relationship a little more than she is, even though when we've hung out he's complained about how little they have in common, and that they never talk any more. The break-up has been both easier and harder for him than he expected, I think; he told me the other day that they should have broken up two years ago when they figured out they didn't do well living together alone (they moved in with a roommate and things got better apparently, but when it was just the two of them it was not good), but he also told me a few days ago that even when things between them were really rough, he'd been fairly certain that she was "the one." She, on the other hand, is already thinking about dating other people and moving on with her life; she's sad that the relationship didn't work out, and she still cares a lot about Sean and wants to stay friends with him, but she isn't emotionally invested any more. She actually told me that she was glad he and I have been hanging out so much, because she was worried that he was getting lonely without her around. Lately, she's started asking me for advice about how to deal with her new crush, which is sort of a weird position for me to be in. I think the main reason for the disparity is that while they both knew the breakup was going to happen, she's been dealing with it emotionally for quite a while now, whereas he's been ignoring it; I don't think it really got real for him until he moved into the spare bedroom.

 

The problem is, since I started getting to really know him better, I've figured out what Monique saw in him all those years ago, and I have been finding myself INCREDIBLY attracted to him. He's not at all my type physically, but we vibe on such a deep level that I don't even really notice the physical any more. We've been spending a lot of time together, hanging out several times a week, and talking, or at least texting, every day, some of which I initiate and some of which he does. We've been on several long hikes together, and we've talked for hours. I had to stay with him (and Lisa and their roomies) for about a week due to a housing emergency, and one night while I was at work he texted me to see when I would be home... When I asked why, he said he was "just curious. :)" (smiley included). When pretty much my entire group of friends went out to see a movie I really wanted to see at a time when I couldn't (I was working), he told me he'd go see it again with me (and did). Whenever we all go out to eat in a group setting he and I always wind up sitting together, even though I've actually made a point of not going out of my way to sit by him. The last couple of times we went to the movies together, I experimented with getting a little touchy feely with him. I didn't overtly cuddle, but I definitely pressed up against him, and while he didn't make an overt move back, he didn't move away, either. We share a lot of glances, and sometimes some pretty intense eye contact. He asks me pretty much every day how my day has been (even if it's just via text), and is sincerely interested. We've been chatting online lately, and the chats are often subtly flirty; a few nights ago, the subject of sex came up because I could overhear my next door neighbors, and that lead to a few shared (relatively tame) dirty secrets. We were both at a wedding this weekend, and I was wearing a dress that left most of my back bare, and he got my attention several times by caressing my lower back; we also all did a lot of drinking, and while nothing overtly more-than-friendly happened there was a lot of leaning against each other, lingering hand brushes, far more hand contact than was necessary when handing over things like cameras, drinks, and pool cues, that sort of thing. I've been trying really hard to ignore these feelings and signals and stuff, because I don't want to potentially screw up an amazing friendship, and I don't want to complicate his already complicated life if he isn't up for it, but it's getting to the point where I'm pretty sure Monique and Greg have picked up on the undercurrents (judging by a few comments Monique has let slip, though thus far she hasn't confronted me about it...), plus it's becoming a major distraction for me.

 

He hasn't made any more-than-friendshippy moves yet, and I usually belong to the "if you don't KNOW that he likes you, he probably doesn't" camp, but I feel like I'm getting lots of "he likes me" signals. He's not terribly shy as a person, but as far as I know he IS pretty inexperienced with the whole initiating thing; Lisa was only his second girlfriend (though both girlfriends he's had have been pretty long-term). He's also in a very weird place with Lisa.

 

So, there's the dilemma. Are we just good buddies? Is this moving towards more than friendship? Is he lingering in limbo because of the weird situation with his ex-girlfriend or his inexperience or maybe both? Should I make a move, or wait it out? My instincts say to wait until he has things totally sorted out with his ex, but lately he's all I can think about and a part of me wants to at least talk to him and see if there's potential there, and there have been SEVERAL times when the urge to kiss him has been almost too strong to resist... But I don't want to scare him off either. Plus I'm pretty close with Lisa, and I'm pretty sure Monique has that lingering crush, which complicates things further, and last I was aware of it Joe still had some lingering feelings for ME... ><

 

So. Thoughts?

[andraile]

Really? Over a hundred views and no one has any thoughts?

[JohnnyBlaze]

Sorry, I just signed up two days ago. I'm still catching up here!

 

Is he lingering in limbo because of the weird situation with his ex-girlfriend...?

 

...Plus I'm pretty close with Lisa, and I'm pretty sure Monique has that lingering crush, which complicates things further, and last I was aware of it Joe still had some lingering feelings for ME...

 

Hot dog, we have a wiener!

 

Let's go over this:

 

1. His friend likes you.
   
2. Your friend dated him. That makes you the friend of an ex.
   

From what you've said, this poor guy is drooling over you like Dom DeLuise at a Vegas buffet. The problem is that he's got two towers to get clearance from before he can take flight. He wants to fly, don't get me wrong, but there are Code violations involved here.

 

1. First guy to make the call on a chick gets first shot. (i.e. if Joe said he likes you before Sean does, Sean has to let Joe take first chance)
   
2. Don't date the friend of an ex.
   

Basically, he has to have Joe and Lisa give him the okay to date you. If he goes behind Joe's back, their friendship is screwed (stealing a target from your buddy is a serious matter), and if Lisa is against it, things will go badly between her and you, and he has a strong possibility of being blamed for it. No guy wants to be the scapegoat for two girls at war. Even though Lisa told you, he may not know yet. Since he never dated Monique and she's currently married, she's incidental.

 

From what you've said, he seems to be doing well in emotionally getting past Lisa, so there's little worry about being a Comeback Kid. Personally, if I were you, I'd tell him that Lisa's cool with the two of you, and then make a move on him. It's up to him to get the green light from Joe.

[andraile]

Thanks for the reply! Joe had his shot years ago, and he knows nothing will ever happen between us, but he's still hanging on to the old crush. >< I think he thinks of me as the one that got away. Sean and I actually talked last night, and acknowledged that there were strong feelings there on both sides, but that there are a lot of complications, one of the biggest of which is that he's still kind of reeling from the break up and he doesn't want to jump into something new too fast. Plus neither of us wants to cause drama with other people. So, I'm going to have a chat with Monique; he's going to have a chat with Joe. We're neither of us quite sure what to do about Lisa... She and I hadn't actually talked about Sean and I dating each other, though I thought she had picked up on what's been going on (God knows everyone else seems to have, since over the past few days I've been getting pointed questions from most of my friends), but the other night she walked in and Sean and I were curled up on the couch together (fairly platonically, but there are three couches in the living room, and he and I were cuddled up on the love seat), and apparently she told Sean the next day that she had a nightmare that he and I hooked up, which tells me that she hasn't consciously recognized what's happening between Sean and I, and she's having a hard time dealing with it... Soooo, I'm not sure what to do about that one. Part of me resents her for being unhappy about it - she's already moved on, she's already seeing someone else, I don't see where it's any of her business who Sean dates, but on the flip side, I get where she's coming from. I think Sean is going to talk to her about it, and depending on how that goes I'll prolly talk to her about it, too. In the meantime, we're taking things v-e-r-y slow.