Perplexing Engagement situation...

[mikeg]

Hi! First time poster here. I've been struggling mightily with some recent developments in my relationship and as such I'm glad I found this forum. I welcome all the objective feedback I can get!

 

My girlfriend and I have been dating 3 years and living together for 2 years. I'm 29, she's 26. I've never doubted that we would one day tie the not. We have a great relationship.

 

Two years ago, I returned to school to finish a bachelor's degree. I finished in December 1007 and begin law school this fall. To this point, I've been completely self supporting. I've added some debt as a result. Law school won't be any cheaper. Because we plan to get married and we'd like to minimize our future debt, the plan we've discussed ad nauseum is for her to pay a disproportionate share of our living expenses starting this fall (something she's able and to this point always willing to do).

 

Because I've been in school, I also haven't had the income needed to buy a ring. Anticipating this, my girlfriend arranged for her stepmother to give me a ring from her first marriage. Problem is, I don't feel comfortable taking a ring from her stepmother. Since January, I've been gainfully employed as a consultant working long hours. Over this time, I've secretly saved a sum which enables me to buy her a beautiful engagement ring (1ct ideal princess cut set in 18ct white gold). Purchasing the ring has been a 10 week process which I hope to end when I receive the latest iteration of the ring in the mail next week (I've sent back several diamonds and had the diamond I like reset twice). My plan has been to propose either on June 16th or July 25th (as we have holiday plans for both weekends).

 

I'm guessing that she's been asking her parents if I've contacted them about getting her stepmother's ring (which I haven't). Because of this, she seems to be under the impression that I've made no effort to bring about our engagement. About six weeks ago my sister approached me and mentioned that my girlfriend had said a strange thing to her over a bottle of wine: she allegedly said that she planned on moving out if I hadn't proposed to her by August. I was dismissive of this at first, but in the last two weeks my girlfriend has made it clear that she has not intention of contributing disproportionately to the finances given that we're not engaged.

 

As regards the money, I could care less. She could simply state that she doesn't want to contribute extra monies period and I would just borrow more. Living expenses in the area I live are pretty manageable and there's plenty of people who want to loan me money. That's fine.

 

What bothers me is this corrosive attitude towards the whole situation. Quite frankly I'm shocked by it. Its not anything like the person I've known and loved for the last 3 years. When I'm demonstrating my undying love and devotion to her, engagement sounds like an auspicious and unforgettable event. When engagement is part of a quid pro quo ("this for that"), it makes me sick to my stomach. What's more, I feel like she should know me better than this. Why would she want to get engaged to someone whom she feels she has to compel in such a manner? This whole situation has been terribly corrosive.

 

I've talked to her at length about how I feel and if anything its made the situation worse. At this point, I feel like waiting at least until September to propose so that this conflict has an opportunity to exhaust itself. I'm not interested in proposing as an obsequious or conciliatory gesture. That's not why I'm proposing and feel that the whole process is so badly corroded at this point that the situation needs some breathing room before I pop the question.

 

Am I being a pig here? Is there something I'm missing? Have a made an error in judgement by keeping her in the dark on the ring? Is her behavior one of those female things that men have never understood or should I be concerned?

 

Criticism, advice, humor, wit anything you've got would be great to hear. Sorry for the length.

[Glory]

As someone going through a sort of similar situation I have to ask: Does she really and truly know that you want to marry her?

 

If you believe that she really does know this and you aren't just assuming that she does then the next question I have is whether or not you led her to believe that you would take her step-mother's ring. She might be truly under the impression that that is the ring you intend to use and is getting upset by what she sees as you putting things off.

 

I wouldn't wait until September. If you do that it might seem as if you're just looking for a fight. Instead, I would simply drop a hint (or better yet, just tell her) that a proposal is imminent and that you hope to spend the rest of your life with her. I guarantee it will lift her spirits considerably.

 

I hope this helps...

[curiousnycgirl]

I completely understand your position, which is why I do not want to give my b/f an ultimatum. As I said to him - I want him to want to marry me with every fiber of his being not because I threatened.

 

Having said that - I applaud your g/f for her strength and for protecting herself. My nature is to be a giver. My b/f has been building his own business for the past 3.5 years, and has not had an income. While we do not live together (so he pays his own house expenses) I pay for all the extras. I pay for his health insurance, all vacations (mostly to see his family), all dates, even the lawyer he needed recently.

 

He has not really ever asked me to do this - I just did as I felt we are a couple, when one needs help, the other gives it.

 

Now that we've hit our 4 year mark of dating, I realize that I've begun to really resent him. I resent the fact that he will allow me to give and give and he won't give me the one thing I want. I wonder at my sanity in continuing to do this. I wonder how I can possibly love someone so much, who clearly does not love me.

 

But I know I won't give him an ultimatum - one day I will have had enough and I will leave. He knows this (it all came to a head april 8th - and I suggested we go our separate ways and he begged me for more time) - he knows I never want him to ask me because I forced him - he's got to want to do it.

 

So you see both sides are corrosive. Your g/f is simply telling you how far she is willing to committ without being met part way. I applaud and respect her for this - and I hope you do to.

 

Good luck!

[mikeg]

If she was supporting someone who just couldn't get themselves together I could certainly understand this attitude of "enough is enough." I feel like I've said what I'm going to do and I've done what I've said all along. I left a great job to pursue my dream of going to law school. I finished my bachelor's in record time with a perfect GPA. I got into a great program. I couldn't possibly be working harder or accomplishing our goals faster. Thus, I feel like her attitude is hypervigilant.

 

I understand her desire for security and commitment, I'm just surprised that my track record with her hasn't given me the breathing room to propose on my own terms. After all, I'm making a "forever" decision. Doesn't she want some assurance that my "forever" decision is authentic and not something I was pressured into? In truth, my decision is authentic but the way she's mishandled the whole situation, I feel like I've been robbed of any opportunity to demonstrate that to her. Where is this trust we've shared for the last 3 years?

 

I haven't mislead her into believing that I'd be taking her stepmother's engagement ring but I haven't explicitly stated that I'm not going to either. Even if I was going to take that ring, I don't think she should be checking up on me anyhow. I feel like she should just trust the process and let it happen the way its going to happen.

 

There is a way to go about doing this that maximizes her control and minimizes her anxiety in the process. I could just have her shop for her own ring, size it, and send me a bill. Then, she could give me the ring and I'll give her like a two week window when I'm going to propose. Is that sexy? Is that going to be an unforgettable moment in her life? Hardly.

 

I want to make this moment as ecstatic for her as it is meaningful for me. To this end, I feel like her comments have been pretty destructive. I've got a buddy who got engaged two years ago (I was his best man actually) and when I asked why he got engaged he said, "her parents wouldn't stand for us living together unwed any longer." In other words, his fiance pressured him into it. I'm not a woman so maybe I'm blowing smoke, but if that were me I don't know how secure I would feel about that "forever" commitment given that he wouldn't have made the same decision without all that pressure.

 

Thank you both for your feedback. I don't think I'll wait until after her August "deadline" like I threatened in my original post but I'm going to wait until the end of July to let things deflate a little bit. I will take your advice and try and assuage her fears by reaffirming my intentions and dropping some hints.

[a4a]

Well you could quickly alleviate this with some subtle hints.....

 

ask her questions about a vacation spot.

if religion is involved in the ceremony hint towards that.

if venue is a concern ask/drop hints.

 

No need to divulge all your plans and actually burst the bubble on the ring/proposal.

 

For that matter just bring up kids.... that should keep her quiet for a bit.

[mikeg]

Well you could quickly alleviate this with some subtle hints.....

 

ask her questions about a vacation spot.

if religion is involved in the ceremony hint towards that.

if venue is a concern ask/drop hints.

 

No need to divulge all your plans and actually burst the bubble on the ring/proposal.

 

For that matter just bring up kids.... that should keep her quiet for a bit.

 

That's pretty practical advice. I'll try some of these and see if she settles down a bit.

[tanbark813]

If a woman leaves you for not proposing within a certain period of time then she's more interested in being married in general than she is in being married to you.

 

I gave a friend of mine this advice a couple years ago when his gf was pressuring him. He resisted the pressure until he was ready. They'll be getting married next month.

 

If it were me in your shoes, the lack of faith would probably bother me enough that I'd show her the bill or some sort of evidence I had been in the process of getting the ring. It will ruin the surprise but at least it will alleviate her concern. And by "alleviate her concern" I mean shut her up.

[sunshinegirl]

Well, I don't think it's illegitimate for her to protect herself a bit. She may feel like she's put 3 years into a relationship and doesn't see evidence that it's moving toward marriage even if the words are there. Ever heard that ole chestnut, "watch their actions not their words?" She may be watching your actions (or the 'apparent' lack thereof) and is rightly or wrongly drawing some conclusions that you may not actually be marriage minded.

 

To be clear, her intentions may be perfectly good in the sense that it's not a bad thing for her to try to protect herself a bit. On the other hand, the impact on you is decidedly bad - it feels like a sign that she doesn't trust you and wants to exert control over your relationship.

 

The key is to acknowledge both parts of that equation - her intentions may be good, and the impact on you is bad.

 

HOWEVER, that being said, you will do your relationship NO favors by returning her actions tit-for-tat ("oh yeah? well then I'm going to put off proposing, then!"). I'm sorry, but that's childish AND it's simply your own attempt to exert control in the relationship. A loving relationship shouldn't be about control, period. Think on that for awhile, my friend.

 

If you love her and want to marry her, then go ahead with the plans you already made to propose in June.

 

I guarantee you that the situation will not improve, or "calm down" if you postpone the proposal. She will only get more and more agitated.

[Glory]

 

I haven't mislead her into believing that I'd be taking her stepmother's engagement ring but I haven't explicitly stated that I'm not going to either. Even if I was going to take that ring, I don't think she should be checking up on me anyhow. I feel like she should just trust the process and let it happen the way its going to happen.

 

 

 

Just to play devil's advocate here, she may not be the one checking up on you. It could be her father and step-mother doing it. As in her step-mother calling her up and saying, "Oh, honey. Mike still hasn't asked for the ring. What is going on with you two."

 

I know that parents can often times exacerbate situations by injecting their thoughts and opinions and values into what should be a personal decision between two people. If people are bugging her about when she's going to get married she might just be taking her frustration on them, out on you. I know that it is something I am guilty of.

 

Good luck!

[mikeg]

Just to play devil's advocate here, she may not be the one checking up on you. It could be her father and step-mother doing it. As in her step-mother calling her up and saying, "Oh, honey. Mike still hasn't asked for the ring. What is going on with you two."

 

I know that parents can often times exacerbate situations by injecting their thoughts and opinions and values into what should be a personal decision between two people. If people are bugging her about when she's going to get married she might just be taking her frustration on them, out on you. I know that it is something I am guilty of.

 

Good luck!

 

That is possible if not probable. I hadn't really thought about that. Good point and thanks again for the advice.

[white.crow]

She invested 3 years of her life into relationship. Two, living with you, no promises given, supporting your academic ambition (and surely everything else that you do in your life!), ready to go on and support you financially. She loves you, loves every minute of what you have together. Else she would not be there for this long. Now how sexy is the game you try to play here, excuses you want support from us for? Much less sexy than the "send me the bill for the ring" proposal. Call her parents and explain that you are proud you made it for the ring yourself this time. In other words, that you are the man to her. Have respect for everyone involved, including yourself.

[Walk]

I got really upset with my fiance about 8-9 months ago over about the same thing (dating 4 years, not engaged).

 

The thing that really bothered me, that sent me over the top, was the fact that he wouldn't act on getting engaged. He'd say he wanted to marry me, yet wouldnt' take any action. We'd been talking 'marriage' in some form or another for 4 years without any action, so I didn't have much faith that "Now" would some how be dramatically different then it was 6 months ago, 1 year ago, 2 years ago, 3 years ago.... I stopped believing he wanted to marry me because his actions said it was just talk.

 

I didn't even care if he wanted to get married or stay bf/gf forever... what I wanted was a difinitive answer on the subject. Either propose, or shut the hell up about marriage.

 

Anyway, I think it's in your best interest to leak it that you're going to all the trouble and expense of finding her the 'perfect' ring. Maybe accidently leave some important clue where she would stumble on it, but isn't too obvious. Let her family know you're putting together the ring and explain how your gf is upset at you and why, then ask if they have any suggestions on how to handle the situation. Or see if they offer any suggestions on how they could help without giving away the whole thing.

 

P.s. find the right balance between 'perfect' ring and realistic. If you keep sending the parts back because it never meets your criteria then you might as well tell your gf that you're scared of getting married and you're finding excuses to post-pone the proposal.

[a4a]

I gotta say something about this family involvement in this R.

 

Stop it now!!

 

It is none of their damn business and is just a little look into your future.

 

You need to sit your gf down once the dust settles and draw some Marital ground rules.

 

If they are attempting to meddle this much at this moment.... holy geeze... wait until the wedding date rolls around.

 

They will be telling you what underwear to put on under that tux.

 

You can contact them now in a nice way, tell them how much you appreciate their efforts with the ring. But you need to do things your way for your relationship with your gf.

[mikeg]

She invested 3 years of her life into relationship. Two, living with you, no promises given, supporting your academic ambition (and surely everything else that you do in your life!), ready to go on and support you financially. She loves you, loves every minute of what you have together. Else she would not be there for this long. Now how sexy is the game you try to play here, excuses you want support from us for? Much less sexy than the "send me the bill for the ring" proposal. Call her parents and explain that you are proud you made it for the ring yourself this time. In other words, that you are the man to her. Have respect for everyone involved, including yourself.

 

I've no doubt that inside she struggles with the same indignant feelings you display in this post. I definitely empathize with that which was precisely why I was dismissive when my sister informed me that she'd said she was 'leaving' in August without a proposal. I don't think she really means that, but I do think that's how she feels sometimes. I'm okay with that. In fact, I plan on alleviating all that anxiety soon.

 

I've been frustrated with this process because I feel like the temperature is rising and I'm being bullied on the issue. This is a big step/decision. I've been surprised by the amount of pressure that's being applied. It feels very suffocating. Are my defensive reactions to the situation childish, destructive, and petty? Probably. That's why I'm talking about it here rather than doing something impulsive.

 

Realize that I'm not trying to get my back scratched here. I want some clarity. And I've got thick skin. Once I got past the acrimony in your post, I think you make some good points. I do realize that the way I feel may not always be mature, rational, or constructive.

 

This thread has been a big help to me. This is one of the few things in life that I can't share with my girlfriend. I'm reluctant to talk to my own family about this because I don't want to prejudice them unnecessarily. This has really helped me get some clarity. Thank you all once again.

[mikeg]

I gotta say something about this family involvement in this R.

 

Stop it now!!

 

It is none of their damn business and is just a little look into your future.

 

You need to sit your gf down once the dust settles and draw some Marital ground rules.

 

If they are attempting to meddle this much at this moment.... holy geeze... wait until the wedding date rolls around.

 

They will be telling you what underwear to put on under that tux.

 

You can contact them now in a nice way, tell them how much you appreciate their efforts with the ring. But you need to do things your way for your relationship with your gf.

 

Her dad's a tough customer. I've had to be pretty assertive with my boundaries. He's very well intentioned but does have a tendency to overstep his bounds. My dad has just as hard a time with my sister and BIL. Its hard to fault them. They love their little girls!

 

My girlfriend brokered the situation with the ring. After participating in this thread, I realize I could have cut the problem off at the knees if I had made it clear from the beginning that I wasn't interested in accepting the ring.

 

Ultimately, I think letting her know that is the best way to resolve the situation. It will let her know that her information is erroneous and that I've made some sort of decision about the engagement. We'll see if that buys me another month!

[a4a]

I've no doubt that inside she struggles with the same indignant feelings you display in this post. I definitely empathize with that which was precisely why I was dismissive when my sister informed me that she'd said she was 'leaving' in August without a proposal. I don't think she really means that, but I do think that's how she feels sometimes. I'm okay with that. In fact, I plan on alleviating all that anxiety soon.

 

I've been frustrated with this process because I feel like the temperature is rising and I'm being bullied on the issue. This is a big step/decision. I've been surprised by the amount of pressure that's being applied. It feels very suffocating. Are my defensive reactions to the situation childish, destructive, and petty? Probably. That's why I'm talking about it here rather than doing something impulsive.

 

Realize that I'm not trying to get my back scratched here. I want some clarity. And I've got thick skin. Once I got past the acrimony in your post, I think you make some good points. I do realize that the way I feel may not always be mature, rational, or constructive.

 

This thread has been a big help to me. This is one of the few things in life that I can't share with my girlfriend. I'm reluctant to talk to my own family about this because I don't want to prejudice them unnecessarily. This has really helped me get some clarity. Thank you all once again.

 

Smart move!!!

[mikeg]

I got really upset with my fiance about 8-9 months ago over about the same thing (dating 4 years, not engaged).

 

The thing that really bothered me, that sent me over the top, was the fact that he wouldn't act on getting engaged. He'd say he wanted to marry me, yet wouldnt' take any action. We'd been talking 'marriage' in some form or another for 4 years without any action, so I didn't have much faith that "Now" would some how be dramatically different then it was 6 months ago, 1 year ago, 2 years ago, 3 years ago.... I stopped believing he wanted to marry me because his actions said it was just talk.

 

I didn't even care if he wanted to get married or stay bf/gf forever... what I wanted was a difinitive answer on the subject. Either propose, or shut the hell up about marriage.

 

Anyway, I think it's in your best interest to leak it that you're going to all the trouble and expense of finding her the 'perfect' ring. Maybe accidently leave some important clue where she would stumble on it, but isn't too obvious. Let her family know you're putting together the ring and explain how your gf is upset at you and why, then ask if they have any suggestions on how to handle the situation. Or see if they offer any suggestions on how they could help without giving away the whole thing.

 

P.s. find the right balance between 'perfect' ring and realistic. If you keep sending the parts back because it never meets your criteria then you might as well tell your gf that you're scared of getting married and you're finding excuses to post-pone the proposal.

 

I put all that detail in about the ring because I wanted to make it clear that I was working hard rather than being the 'non-actor' you described. I'm making progress, it just seems that I'm a bit behind her schedule.

 

Still, you make a good point that her anxiety given the amount of information she has is understandable.

 

As far as sending stuff back, buying a diamond on the internet is tough to do because you can't see the diamond before you buy it. Some stones had great specifications but looked like duds when I got them in my hand. Once I finally found the stone I wanted, I had to get it set. I made a bad decision about one setting, another came to me unpolished, and I think I've found the third and final iteration of the ring (I should get it tomorrow). I'm ready to be through with the whole process.

 

It took me about three months and $150 in registered mail bills to get what I wanted, but I've been able to get a great ring for about 2/3rd's of what most would pay for the same thing. The other 1/3rd has been blood, sweat, and tears!

[a4a]

Actions do mean much more than words!!!

 

Don't marry her....... marry me!!

[momma3179]

I think your g/f may be feeling like she is standing still. Even if you don't intend on using the ring she has arranged, maybe the fact that you haven't asked about this ring is making her doubt the future. We, most women but certainly not all, want the hubby, house 2.5 kids and you stated she is 26 maybe she is just anxious to get things rolling. I would personally let things calm down a bit before you do propose, but waiting until August is like you are asking her to leave per her earlier comments. When you are ready, go ahead and get the other ring but surprise her with the one you had made especially for her. But, while letting things clear or whatever, you may want to find an effective way in learning why she reacted so abruptly in the first place.

[vander]

Just a thought, but have you recently assured her of your intentions?

 

During the few months before my fiance proposed to me, he told me many times that he loved me and wanted to spend his future with me. He told me he wanted to grow old together, be with me forever, cute campy stuff, etc ...

 

That helped me to understand what his intentions were. At the time, big changes were happening in our lives, and I was unsure of the future. I felt alot of uncertainty with our relationship as a result.

 

But his words reassured me. They helped me to understand that although things were changing, his intentions were not changing. I was able to find peace while waiting for him to propose when he was ready.

 

With you starting law school this fall, she may be feeling the same sense of uncertainty that I felt. Will you leave her? Will you become so absorbed in your new world that she gets lost and discarded?

 

She may feel that getting engaged is the "promise" that you will still love her during this new stage of your life. In her mind, if the engagement doesn't happen soon, it is a sure sign that you will leave her.

 

The fear and the pain of being left is what tempts her to end things first. Many ladies distance themselves emotionally when they feel in danger of heartbreak. There is a temptation to pull the trigger prematurely than to risk getting shot.

 

I don't think her fuss is about the ring or the engagement -- it's about fear. I think she painfully needs to be assured of your intentions.

 

Not to mention what someone else said above -- her family is most likely aggravating the situation. Well-intentioned parents can REALLY make a girl paranoid -- especially when they continuously cast doubt on the situation.

[Mary3]

The fact that she issued an Ultimatum to her family " if he won't marry me by _____ then its over " Shows me she IS looking for marriage and if you wont do it she will move on to find someone that will. Its more about flowers and wedding cakes if you ask me .....Why MUST you get married if you are not ready ?

 

Marriage + Quick = Disaster which = Divorce.

 

Don't do this...

[MJTig]

i think she just may be panicking a little and protecting herself. i also have a feeling her parents are putting pressure on her or making comments about why she is doing all this without a committment (in their eyes). It is amazing what the effect of other people's comments have on your psyche when you are in the limbo area of "is he?". You don't want to look like you are being taken for granted or advantage of, even if you are not. So you may show that to people, you want to feel like you have some control over the situation. Been there.

 

So, I am betting she is getting pressure and starting to over-worry. That she may actually be worrying that she comes absolute last. Silly, I know. Been there, been silly. When women feel this way they are very quick to try to protect themselves.

 

Perhaps tell her unbidden that you really appreciate her and all she does and knows it can't be easy to wait. Hint that just because one ring has not been asked for does not mean another is not in the works, and that she has nothing to worry about. My now husband and I had that conversation and I was much better just knowing he wasn't putting it off but trying to be secretive (he did not tell me details and I did not want to know, but we settled the him "acting like it was not going to happen to throw me off but pissing me off instead" issue).

 

So, I don't think she is mean and evil- just amped up and on edge.

 

Finally, call her parents and say thank you for the ring offer but you have other plans and you would appreciate their secrecy and help in keeping the situation calm, but in the end it is between you and her.

[rachel90]

hey, just come clean about what you've been doing.

im sure then she'll realise that she was being silly and you will both realise it was just a misunderstanding..one that will hopefully have a happy ending!

[littlekitty]

Mike you're doing the right thing by letting her know plans are in progress.

 

Waiting for that special moment - when you KNOW it's coming is well.... hard!!

 

I knew hubby was going to propose to me. I was getting my own ring made. While it was in progress we had some special dates coming up and I let him know I'd be happy to be proposed to with - or without - a ring.

 

When our very special date came and went without the proposal I threw a fit. Looking back now I feel sooooo about it. It's hard to explain where I was or what I was thinking. It's a moment you dream of ever since you were a little girl playing weddings with your Mum's sheets on your head!!

 

Hubby was terribly upset by my fit, and even he wondered if he was doing the right thing anymore. I tried my best to explain how I was feeling and he promised me it would be within a certain timescale and asked that I be gracious about it until then. Which I eventually managed to do!

 

A month later he surprised me in the most wonderful way:

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t103613/

 

It's so hard to explain the anxiety and excitement and impatience I was feeling.... and I admit I wasn't overly adult or well behaved. But it was no indication that I'd suddenly changed, or would act like that in the future.

 

Try to give her a bit of leeway.......

[CodependentKate]

Just do it on the 16th like you had planned and there shouldn't be a problem. I'm sure that she is feeling very pressured by her friends, family and coworkers about the engagement, and that tends to wear on a person. She has given you a very passive-aggresive ultimatum of August. I seriously doubt that it was the wine that made her decide to tell YOUR sister that she was planning on leaving, I would be willing to bet that that tactic was well planned and that she knew that your sister would tell you.

 

Since you are planning on proposing in the allotted time anyway, it doesn't really matter. It would be very cruel of you to postpone the proposal because she is upset because she isn't sure that you are going to ever do it. I also noted that you used terms such as "buy more time" which may indicate that you actually aren't as ready to propose as you say that you are. Being so picky about the diamond also might be some kind of subconcious signal that you aren't actually ready as well. Maybe she can sense your uncertainty.

 

Having another person basically support you while you are in school is a big deal. I can totally understand that she would be hesitant to enter into such a situation without a definite plan for the future. It is not uncommon, afterall, for men to dump the women who helped support them while they complete law or medical school once they finish. Maybe she is scared of that too.