Do you dislike business owners ?

[icess64]

No, that was my point, I WASN'T directing the whole thing toward you--part of it was for the OP. Sheesh. I would have edited it to say as much, but it won't let me edit it. And yes, I read about 60% of what you wrote before I responded.

 

And I shouldn't have said, "hate business owners" since the original thread said, "dislike business owners". But still.

[hotgurl]

Well I went to college on scholarships, so for me it wasn't expensive, although, yes college can put some people in debt, probably more than fewer. Also though, there are community colleges that are not very expensive that people can go to...in addition to state aid...I don't know that financial reasons are a valid excuse anymore not to go to college.

 

In terms of getting a masters, one of the big differences between corporate sector jobs and teaching is that many companies will pay for an employee to get a masters. Teachers have to pay for it themselves. I will probably at some point go back to school to get a masters and at that time, my company will pay for it. I'd have to get above a certain grade (not sure what- a C or a B), but yeah, I could get my masters for free...something no business owner (or teacher) would have the luxury of having.

 

I feel you are young and very lucky. Because in most cases employers will not pay for a Masters. And the majority of students go into major debt to get a degree.

 

I got scholarship for 1/2 of the total cost of my education. Than grants covered 1/4, and I paid the rest. no help from the parents.

 

My friends wasn't as lucky she has 40k in loans. She is pretty typical. And yes cost is prohibitive to going to college esp if you are going for a masters.

[Cherry Blossom 35]

 

The irony of this entire thread is that the person speaking out the most about uneducated people, comes off as being uneducated not only in their logic, but their grammar, punctuation, etc. Interesting indeed. The saying, "the emptiest can makes the most noise" comes to mind...

 

 

I noticed this also.

[Cherry Blossom 35]

Why would someone post something so generalized and closed-minded as a hatred of business owners? How is such a statement any different than hating a certain group of people for no other reason than you don't like the way they look or live their lives?

 

Such dichotomous thinking disturbs me as it's the basis of discrimination on so many levels.

 

 

This is the same person who has posted many gross generalizations about women, too.

[Moose]

but yeah, I could get my masters for free...something no business owner (or teacher) would have the luxury of having.

Again, you don't seem to understand something....this business owner would just pay cash for college up front, and it wouldn't take any skin of my back at all. I'm also willing to bet other business owners could/would do the same.....

 

Why would I/we need free tuition?

[Moose]

I don't know why I didn't think of this before, but....did you know people such as Art and I could be offered honorary doctorates for our accomplishments? Since I sell and support the software needs for all the local UNI's.....I may have a shoe win for one.....

 

Two years ago I was recgonized as one of the, "Forty under forty" by our city's chamber of commerce. This award is highly prestigious, something fortune 500 company CEOs envy.....all without a degree....(it also came with a lot of embarrassment from the attention, oh and blushing.....)

 

Comparing your career to that of a business owner isn't apples to apples at all.....I personally don't see why or how you would think you have the upper hand.

[MaxManwell]

Be reasonable now, 4 millions dollars in income, hasn't seen his business in a year, just collects the checks, caught the low end of the housing market boom.

 

What is there to not hate about business owners ?

[Art_Critic]

What is there to not hate about business owners ?

 

Good point .. seriously.. I do see that point...

but....

 

Throw in that without him 40 people would have to figure out how to get paid and put food on their table..

 

I'll bet those 40 people and their SO's and kids don't hate him..and neither does the county or state.. considering he pays huge property taxes ( business's pay taxes on the property, meaning chairs. desks,computers, etc etc..that they have in their offices..)( at least they do in GA. ) and income tax as well...

[MaxManwell]

Good point .. seriously.. I do see that point...

but....

 

Throw in that without him 40 people would have to figure out how to get paid and put food on their table..

 

I'll bet those 40 people and their SO's and kids don't hate him..and neither does the county or state.. considering he pay huge property taxes ( business pay taxes on the property, meaning chairs. desk, etc etc..) and income tax as well...

 

Supply vs Demand sided Economics.

 

In my opinion the need for welding would lead to most of his workers going out on their own, or someone else would take over business. Or it would fragment into any smaller number of companies. The demand would simply not dissipate with the owner.

 

In any case my last post was made in sarcastic jest.

[Cherry Blossom 35]

Be reasonable now, 4 millions dollars in income, hasn't seen his business in a year, just collects the checks, caught the low end of the housing market boom.

 

What is there to not hate about business owners ?

 

Are you kidding me? Do you not see the risk and the hard work that also goes into this equation?

 

I'm amazed at some of the asinine comments being made on this thread. First of all, how general can you be? Business owner? There are many types of businesses out there, from the guy selling fruit on the street to Microsoft. Yeah, that quitter Bill Gates. By the way, if you want to know about the change that Bill Gates has made in the world, it goes way beyond inventing Windows (as if that was not enough). Check out the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation to see how billions in profits are changing people's lives in Africa and other places.

 

I live down the street from a little corner store owned by a Korean man and his wife. They came from Korea to DC in the late 60s and opened this store. When I say little corner store, I mean LITTLE corner store. They survived through the riots in 1968 and the "murder capitol" years. They have put a son through Harvard and a daughter through Stanford. Talk about living the American dream.

 

And lovestruck818, while I appreciate the value you hold in education, your argument is flawed. In one of your first posts you state that having an education is necessary to starting a successful business. Then later you state that the reason one should have an education is to have a fall-back plan. One does not relate to the other. These are two different arguments.

 

 

As one who has two degrees, is currently an employee but has also been self-employed (with employees), I have seen both sides. It takes tremendous work and tolerance of risk to launch your own business and make it successful. I think that some of the posters don't really understand this concept. When I was self-employed, I was either working or thinking about work all the time. I had to deal with theft on a regular basis. I never knew what the next week was going to look like. I decided that for my temperament, self-employment was not the right route to go.

So I really appreciate what it takes to go it on your own. This also makes me a better employee.

[Cherry Blossom 35]

Check it out. Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation.

 

http://www.gatesfoundation.org/default.htm

[Moose]

Be reasonable now, 4 millions dollars in income

I said that Art was really close....fact of the matter is the revenue, (not income) topped out at about 5.2 million last year. We'll be closer to 7 by the end of our fiscal year in Febuary, this, (being a valued added reseller in the CAD industry) is the most profitable of my companies.

hasn't seen his business in a year, just collects the checks

Nice isn't it? I do occasionally talk to my GM when the accountant tells me the shop needs to spend some money to balance the books.....I'd rather invest back into the shop than pay taxes on the income.....after all, everyone is making good money with the niche market we cater to, so as long as they're happy....I'm happy.....

caught the low end of the housing market boom.

Actually, I built this home during Katrina....it wasn't the, "low end" as far as materials are concerned....

In my opinion the need for welding would lead to most of his workers going out on their own

That's a good / valid point. Several have, but with my help. In turn, they take our overflow and they throw me a bone or two every now and again as well....

 

I know you were being sarcastic, but let's not generalize all business owners into one pool.....some are total jerks and I agree....BUT, in my opinion, it's a requirement in some cases....I've been threatened, my family has been threatened, I even had my vehicle turned upside down by a disgruntal employee who's now my best friend and partner in the BBQ business....it's all good.....

[sb129]

Moose, I like your story- its interesting and inspiring.

Good for you.

 

And you are right about generalising all business owners in the same pool. Its a ridiculous thing to do.

[demrea]

....

 

and it feels so good to pay cash for a truck.....

 

...

 

way way OT, but no matter how much cash you have, you should never pay up front for a vehicle in todays interest rate climate.

 

poor use of your hard earned cash.

 

back to the topic at hand?

 

1) business owners take the risk, employee's take very little and therefore are by definition commoditized. what? the owners are running a charity? provide value to the business or you will be moved along.

 

2) education. of course it is valuable, but education comes in many different ways. one if through attending classes at university, but thats not the only way to gain valuable education and anyone who thinks otherwise is not only a snob, but also clearly has not benefited from that education because they are clearly not smart enough to think beyond their own filter.

[Art_Critic]

way way OT, but no matter how much cash you have, you should never pay up front for a vehicle in todays interest rate climate.

 

poor use of your hard earned cash.

 

Why ??... Paying cash for a depreciating asset stops the bleeding right away...

 

Buying it on credit makes the bleeding continue for up to 5 years..that is 7% for 5 years..

In the end a 30k auto will cost you close to 40k

 

Auto loans are still fairly high.. 6-8%..

[Moose]

but no matter how much cash you have, you should never pay up front for a vehicle in todays interest rate climate

WHAT???

 

I can walk into in any dealer and get any vehicle 3-5k under sticker price by routing cash to their account.....you're telling me it's better to give them a down payment, then pay interest???? Not me pal.....cash up front, save money, drive away.....

[demrea]

WHAT???

 

I can walk into in any dealer and get any vehicle 3-5k under sticker price by routing cash to their account.....you're telling me it's better to give them a down payment, then pay interest???? Not me pal.....cash up front, save money, drive away.....

 

still way off OT, but interesting none the less

 

example A

you buy a 25k car for cash. in 4 years its worth 13k and the warrenty is over, which means just at the time the car will start requiring a heavier maintenence and repair burden, you wont be covered. so you own a 13k (ands till declining) asset with a significant cost risk

 

example B

you lease a 25 car and it costs you 12k over that period. after 4 years instead of "owning" a 13k and decling asset (plus R&M exposure), you have saved the difference and own a 13k cash investment (and growing). and yes you start again leasing another vehicle, but it works in your favour.

 

leasing vehicles is always the best option.

 

you own assets that appreciate

you rent assets the depreciate.

 

there is no upside at all to owning a vehicle. i never understand, is there is anything else in this world that people so easily agree to turn 25 into 20k the minute its purchased?

 

ps ... lease rates in canada top out at 1.9% give or take

[Art_Critic]

The long-term cost of leasing is ALWAYS MORE than the cost of buying, assuming the buyer keeps his vehicle after loan-end.

 

It doesn't take rocket science to figure out that the cost of buying one car and driving it for ten years is less expensive than leasing or buying five different cars over the same period.

[demrea]

The long-term cost of leasing is ALWAYS MORE than the cost of buying, assuming the buyer keeps his vehicle after loan-end.

 

It doesn't take rocket science to figure out that the cost of buying one car and driving it for ten years is less expensive than leasing or buying five different cars over the same period.

 

i disagree, ....

 

we can hash it out in a different thread though!

[Moose]

Dang Art.....just take my thoughts and post them already.....lol

 

Example Moose:

 

Buy a 25k vehicle for 20k, take care of it and drive it until it won't drive anymore......(about 20 years) or pass it on to one of the fruits of my loom, or donate it to someone who needs it...or drive it off a cliff for the fun of it...

[Art_Critic]

i disagree, ....

 

we can hash it out in a different thread though!

 

No need to too.... numbers don't lie...

[demrea]

Dang Art.....just take my thoughts and post them already.....lol

 

Example Moose:

 

Buy a 25k vehicle for 20k, take care of it and drive it until it won't drive anymore......(about 20 years) or pass it on to one of the fruits of my loom, or donate it to someone who needs it...or drive it off a cliff for the fun of it...

 

fine ... you keep it 20 years you are right and i defer. but most people do no keep a vehicle for 20 years.

 

so, what 1987 unit are you driving now?

[demrea]

No need to too.... numbers don't lie...

 

yes they do!

 

id much rather put my money in the bank, you prefer to put your money into metal, plastic and rubber. thats your choice. i will pay for 50% of the car in 1/48th increments.

 

to each his own, but i dare say if we both started off the with the same $$, at 10 years not only would i be driving a nicer car, my bank account would be better off than yours (without other inputs of course).

[Moose]

I have 2 88' Pontiac Fieros that are still in great condition if you really must know.....

 

They don't rust and get better gas mileage than most new cars now....

[carhill]

Cool, Moose...one of the more forward-thinking DeLorean designs. The lines are still contemporary.

 

I paid cash for the last new vehicle I bought, back in 1985. It was a diesel truck I bought for my then-new business, and still drive it today. Hate putting fuel in it at 5.00/gal, but I digress