Do you dislike business owners ?

[Moose]

Oh come on LoveStruck.. nobody said your house purchase wasn't a good thing but for you to start comparing house price is nuts...

 

here is something to think about..

 

Moose owns a business with 40 employees.. the base sales per employee as a rough estimate for a business is about $100,000 +- of sales per year per employee..

 

That would put moose's company in the 4mil per year in sales.. I'm sure he can afford a $500,000 home.

Dang Art....you're almost dead on....need a job man?

[Art_Critic]

need a job man?

 

Nah... I'm doing fine...

besides...

I only know how to weld with ox/a.... I'm too old to have to go back to school and get a degree to learn all the plasma cutters and crap you have today

[lovestruck818]

Well, if you're assuming that owning a business is easy, you're mistaken.

 

Yes, going to college is worth doing, it's just not something I felt I needed at the time, and who's to say I won't go someday in the future?

 

Don't get me wrong, I respect you and what you've been able to accomplish, however, having a degree and a nice paying job isn't for everyone and certainly doesn't put you above me or anyone else for that matter.....[/quote]

 

You're right it doesn't...and I respect you completely as well...for me though, I just don't understand why people don't go to college. Maybe it depends on where you live or how you were raised, I have no idea, but most people here go to college. That's just what one does after high school. And, upon it's completion, more job oppportunities open up for someone who has the degree than doesn't. It's not even about the money, it's about who is more marketable in today's day & age. In New York City, the more crap you have on your resume the better. That's NYC- I'm not talking about other areas of the country I am just talking about what I know. You guys are all doing well and I admire & respect it, but come to NYC and you would not stand a chance.

[lovestruck818]

Oh come on LoveStruck.. nobody said your house purchase wasn't a good thing but for you to start comparing house price is nuts...

 

here is something to think about..

 

Moose owns a business with 40 employees.. the base sales per employee as a rough estimate for a business is about $100,000 +- of sales per year per employee..

 

That would put moose's company in the 4mil per year in sales.. I'm sure he can afford a $500,000 home.

 

How can I not compare them though? It's a lot harder to make a good living here- that's why people NEED degrees. And yes we generally make more money here, the value of our salaries to our housing costs are not relative. Example, a NYC lawyer let's say makes $100,000 a year. That same lawyer in Omaha let's say makes $50,000. Omaha lawyer wants to buy a house for $100,000. That house here would cost $500,000 or more. So $100,000 divided by $50,000= 2x his salary. New York lawyer $500,000 divided by $100,000= 5x his salary. That's why having a degree is so important. It's nearly impossible to make a living in NY without one b/c of the lack of jobs available for the people who lack it.

[MaxManwell]

ha ha they start teachers here at 30 grand.

 

Well you can live pretty comfortably on 30 grand a year. Teaching is also not hard work compared to a lot of other places you might end up. The only reason I brought it up was to make the point that a teaching degree + something else (maths ?) is a worthwhile investment because it is a good fall back option.

[Moose]

but come to NYC and you would not stand a chance.

I beg to differ.....

 

If there are manufacturers in NYC I would clean up....it's just not an area that appeals to me.....

 

Give me another five years and chances are I'll have an office there too....we're in nine states currently and still growing.....

 

Fact is, I don't need a degree, but I can hire someone that does if I'm so inclined.....get it?

[lovestruck818]

Well you can live pretty comfortably on 30 grand a year. Teaching is also not hard work compared to a lot of other places you might end up. The only reason I brought it up was to make the point that a teaching degree + something else (maths ?) is a worthwhile investment because it is a good fall back option.

 

One can't even make a living for themselves on that salary here, let alone a family. One can raise a family completely comfortably on $30k in other areas of the country. Here, on that salary, a family would be below the poverty line.

[MaxManwell]

One can't even make a living for themselves on that salary here, let alone a family. One can raise a family completely comfortably on $30k in other areas of the country. Here, on that salary, a family would be below the poverty line.

 

Where is your sense of adventure ? You tutor, you get a second job, drive taxi's, the 30 grand a year is a helpful staple.

[lovestruck818]

ha ha they start teachers here at 30 grand.

 

and I'm assuming that's without a masters...?

[lovestruck818]

Where is your sense of adventure ? You tutor, you get a second job, drive taxi's, the 30 grand a year is a helpful staple.

 

or you get a college education and a good job and don't have to worry about the latter.

[Art_Critic]

LoveStruck.. you are young.. and by the sounds of it haven't been outside of SI,NY...

the world is a bigger place than you realize..

 

You should be proud of your accomplishments but jezzzz.. college degrees don't mean you are going to be more successful than someone else and/or the lack of one doesn't mean you will live on the street..

 

I don't have degree and I've done pretty good for myself.

[lovestruck818]

LoveStruck.. you are young.. and by the sounds of it haven't been outside of SI,NY...

the world is a bigger place than you realize..

 

You should be proud of your accomplishments but jezzzz.. college degrees don't mean you are going to be more successful than someone else and/or the lack of one doesn't mean you will live on the street..

 

I don't have degree and I've done pretty good for myself.

 

you're right...in GA...NYC is a very different place. Why do you think there are so many homeless people?

[Art_Critic]

you're right...in GA...NYC is a very different place.

 

 

Sure.. they are...

 

I live in and over 4000 square foot 6 bedroom, with 2 full kitchen's house on an acre of land... a house like that would cost 2.5 mil in NY..

I didn't pay any way near 2.5 mil for it..

 

It comes down to the cost of living.. in Ga a teacher might make 50k but that same teacher can go to NY and make 85k.. but the houses are also more expensive....

[lovestruck818]

Sure.. they are...

 

I live in and over 4000 square foot 6 bedroom, with 2 full kitchen's house on an acre of land... a house like that would cost 2.5 mil in NY..

I didn't pay any way near 2.5 mil for it..

 

It comes down to the cost of living.. in Ga a teacher might make 50k but that same teacher can go to NY and make 85k.. but the houses are also more expensive....

 

right, that was exactly what I illustrated in my post about the 2 lawyers.

[Kasan]

[quote=Moose;1691818

You're right it doesn't...and I respect you completely as well...for me though, I just don't understand why people don't go to college. Maybe it depends on where you live or how you were raised, I have no idea, but most people here go to college. That's just what one does after high school. And, upon it's completion, more job oppportunities open up for someone who has the degree than doesn't. It's not even about the money, it's about who is more marketable in today's day & age. In New York City, the more crap you have on your resume the better. That's NYC- I'm not talking about other areas of the country I am just talking about what I know. You guys are all doing well and I admire & respect it, but come to NYC and you would not stand a chance.

 

Not all of us were offered an education due to family circumstances. In fact, some of our families could have cared less what we did with our lives.

 

I was self-employed for ten years and loved every minute of it--and surprise, I don't have a college degree, but when I had business questions I worked with SCORE and the SBA.

 

I don't do well with being micro-managed hence, starting my own business was a perfect fit for me.

 

Our state has a program called "University Without Walls" in which you can take your business experience and translate it into college credits. Will I use it? Probably not.

 

I learned how to write a business plan on my own, prepare for a tax audit (they love small businesses) and was asked to speak at the University to educators from around the country about my experiences running a "home grown business" for several years.

 

I agree, education is extremely important and insisted that my kids go to college--only one finished!

 

By the way, I currently work in a non-profit where I run the show--doesn't seem to bother them in the least that I don't have a college degree.

 

I have found many entrepreneurs to be highly creative and able to think outside of the box, something corporate America sometimes squelches.

[jerbear]

In my opinion, trying being a consultant for awhile; you'll learn that the world is a big place and small place both at the same time. Big place because there are alot of opportunities BUT you have to have the right stuff. Small place because you'll notice that a small class of people have the right stuff. You'll also learn that there is no one size fits all.

 

A person with a $50k income in living in a $100k house on Main Street, Small Town, USA versus $50k income renting a box on 125th Street, Big City, USA are two different people. One may seek income and career versus easy commute and a better work life balance.

 

It maybe true that business owners maybe disliked but one has to remember that there are risks involved to making money. It takes money to make money.

 

A degree may help but it does not alleviate the risk. The degree may give you credibility to advance your dreams and help create the lifestyle you want. The degree won't give you the lifestyle.

 

Business owners not only have to worry about their business, their incomes, but also the other employees. The survival of the business is key, otherwise everyone doesn't have a job. It is much easier to have a stable job, a boss, getting benefits, etc... it is much harder when your the business owner looking for sales, capital, employees, attracting and retaining employees, then down to their own food bowl. Those are skills and experiences that most people don't have. Everyone's skills, experiences, risk appetite, life's situation, and other factors are different.

[lovestruck818]

 

Not all of us were offered an education due to family circumstances. In fact, some of our families could have cared less what we did with our lives.

 

I was self-employed for ten years and loved every minute of it--and surprise, I don't have a college degree, but when I had business questions I worked with SCORE and the SBA.

 

I don't do well with being micro-managed hence, starting my own business was a perfect fit for me.

 

Our state has a program called "University Without Walls" in which you can take your business experience and translate it into college credits.

 

I learned how to write a business plan on my own, prepare for a tax audit (they love small businesses) and was asked to speak at the University to educators from around the country about my experiences running a "home grown business" for several years.

 

I agree, education is extremely important and insisted that my kids go to college--only one finished!

 

By the way, I currently work in a non-profit where I run the show--doesn't seem to bother them in the least that I don't have a college degree.

 

I have also found many entrepreneurs to be highly creative and able to think outside of the box, something corporate America sometimes squelches.

 

Wow, UWW sounds like a great thing! I guess the point of my posts is that some people feel like they don't need degrees or whatever and that's fine and i respect that...and even better if they are doing well for themselves, but if you all are saying you are doing just fine without your degrees than why are you insisting that your children go? is it b/c college can ultimately lead them to better life? For me that is the case, but I am wondering why if you are doing so well without degrees, why isn't it ok for your children not to have one? I guess I don't really understand...

 

Furthermore, yes some people have financial trouble- but NY offers state aid to those who need it so they can go to school. I'm not sure if most states do this.

 

And, awesome that your profession doesn't require a degree. Mine absolutely requires it. We only hire people with degrees. I am not saying they are better at the job or worse than someone else who didn't have it would be, I am just saying that where I am, degrees are becoming more needed.

[lovestruck818]

In my opinion, trying being a consultant for awhile; you'll learn that the world is a big place and small place both at the same time. Big place because there are alot of opportunities BUT you have to have the right stuff. Small place because you'll notice that a small class of people have the right stuff. You'll also learn that there is no one size fits all.

 

A person with a $50k income in living in a $100k house on Main Street, Small Town, USA versus $50k income renting a box on 125th Street, Big City, USA are two different people. One may seek income and career versus easy commute and a better work life balance.

 

It maybe true that business owners maybe disliked but one has to remember that there are risks involved to making money. It takes money to make money.

 

A degree may help but it does not alleviate the risk. The degree may give you credibility to advance your dreams and help create the lifestyle you want. The degree won't give you the lifestyle.

 

Business owners not only have to worry about their business, their incomes, but also the other employees. The survival of the business is key, otherwise everyone doesn't have a job. It is much easier to have a stable job, a boss, getting benefits, etc... it is much harder when your the business owner looking for sales, capital, employees, attracting and retaining employees, then down to their own food bowl. Those are skills and experiences that most people don't have. Everyone's skills, experiences, risk appetite, life's situation, and other factors are different.

 

Well I don't think one can say which is harder: working for someone or for yourself. I will agree both are hard...and each one has it's pros & cons, but I don't think one can really say that owning a business is harder. Everything is hard...it's the way you approach it that can make it easier or harder for you, but on the whole- one is not harder or easy- they are just different.

[Kasan]

 

Wow, UWW sounds like a great thing! I guess the point of my posts is that some people feel like they don't need degrees or whatever and that's fine and i respect that...and even better if they are doing well for themselves, but if you all are saying you are doing just fine without your degrees than why are you insisting that your children go? is it b/c college can ultimately lead them to better life? For me that is the case, but I am wondering why if you are doing so well without degrees, why isn't it ok for your children not to have one? I guess I don't really understand...

 

And, awesome that your profession doesn't require a degree. Mine absolutely requires it. We only hire people with degrees. I am not saying they are better at the job or worse than someone else who didn't have it would be, I am just saying that where I am, degrees are becoming more needed.

 

I insisted my kids go to college because I wanted them to have the "opportunity" to get a degree.

 

My profession does require a degree--most in similar positions to mine have Masters, but my lack of a degree was waived due to my business experience.

 

I agree with Art and Moose--worrying about your Account Receivables isn't for the faint of heart!

[hotgurl]

and I'm assuming that's without a masters...?

 

that is too start without a masters. But getting a Master it does raise your salary but also it is at least another 30k in fees to get a Masters.

 

Here you doing well to make 40k.

 

I started in design with a college degree at $9 an hour. Oh yea and I had at least 10K in debt.

 

I agree going to college is a good thing but it is not a golden chalice like you present it to be.

 

also with so many people going to college now a degree is not the same it is just considered the standard min to start a job. You have to do something more to get a leg up.

 

Back in the day a degree was something more spectatcular because not many people went to college not it is like whatever you have a degree.

 

as more more people are priced out of going to Uni it might be something more to brag about.

 

Also I didn't find college terrible hard but man running a daily business is something else.

[icess64]

Why would someone post something so generalized and closed-minded as a hatred of business owners? How is such a statement any different than hating a certain group of people for no other reason than you don't like the way they look or live their lives?

 

Such dichotomous thinking disturbs me as it's the basis of discrimination on so many levels.

 

The irony of this entire thread is that the person speaking out the most about uneducated people, comes off as being uneducated not only in their logic, but their grammar, punctuation, etc. Interesting indeed. The saying, "the emptiest can makes the most noise" comes to mind...

 

Education is fantastic, I'm certainly not saying otherwise, as I'm finishing up my own soul-sucking battle with nursing school as I type this. But traditional education isn't for everyone as many people learn by experience or other methods.

 

I hope you take into account that there are diverse people out there with so much to offer the world and if you shut your piehole for a few minutes and listen, you'll learn things college can't and won't teach.

[lovestruck818]

that is too start without a masters. But getting a Master it does raise your salary but also it is at least another 30k in fees to get a Masters.

 

Here you doing well to make 40k.

 

I started in design with a college degree at $9 an hour. Oh yea and I had at least 10K in debt.

 

I agree going to college is a good thing but it is not a golden chalice like you present it to be.

 

also with so many people going to college now a degree is not the same it is just considered the standard min to start a job. You have to do something more to get a leg up.

 

Back in the day a degree was something more spectatcular because not many people went to college not it is like whatever you have a degree.

 

as more more people are priced out of going to Uni it might be something more to brag about.

 

Also I didn't find college terrible hard but man running a daily business is something else.

 

Well I went to college on scholarships, so for me it wasn't expensive, although, yes college can put some people in debt, probably more than fewer. Also though, there are community colleges that are not very expensive that people can go to...in addition to state aid...I don't know that financial reasons are a valid excuse anymore not to go to college.

 

In terms of getting a masters, one of the big differences between corporate sector jobs and teaching is that many companies will pay for an employee to get a masters. Teachers have to pay for it themselves. I will probably at some point go back to school to get a masters and at that time, my company will pay for it. I'd have to get above a certain grade (not sure what- a C or a B), but yeah, I could get my masters for free...something no business owner (or teacher) would have the luxury of having.

[lovestruck818]

Why would someone post something so generalized and closed-minded as a hatred of business owners? How is such a statement any different than hating a certain group of people for no other reason than you don't like the way they look or live their lives?

 

Such dichotomous thinking disturbs me as it's the basis of discrimination on so many levels.

 

The irony of this entire thread is that the person speaking out the most about uneducated people, comes off as being uneducated not only in their logic, but their grammar, punctuation, etc. Interesting indeed. The saying, "the emptiest can makes the most noise" comes to mind...

 

Education is fantastic, I'm certainly not saying otherwise, as I'm finishing up my own soul-sucking battle with nursing school as I type this. But traditional education isn't for everyone as many people learn by experience or other methods.

 

I hope you take into account that there are diverse people out there with so much to offer the world and if you shut your piehole for a few minutes and listen, you'll learn things college can't and won't teach.

 

if you are talking about me, I am one person, therefore you should say "she" and not "their"...unless I have cloned myself...which in that case, then you would be right.

[icess64]

Yeah, I didn't know if you were a he, a she, or a he/she and in an indiscreet effort to over-generalize my statement (in keeping with the theme of the thread), I thought it best to use "their" instead of she because I was trying NOT to respond to one person in particular. So yes, that was intentional.

 

But the clone thing wouldn't be surprising. Those clones are always causing trouble with grammar Damn clown-shoes, those clones.

[lovestruck818]

Yeah, I didn't know if you were a he, a she, or a he/she and in an indiscreet effort to over-generalize my statement (in keeping with the theme of the thread), I thought it best to use "their" instead of she because I was trying NOT to respond to one person in particular. So yes, that was intentional.

 

But the clone thing wouldn't be surprising. Those clones are always causing trouble with grammar Damn clown-shoes, those clones.

 

I also don't recall me ever saying I hated business owners? was that whole previous post directed toward me? Did you read anything I posted?