If you, the OW were the BW, would you want to know?

[OWoman]

It's not all some free-love love fest out here.

 

That's it! Cancel my flight! I'll go somewhere else instead, then...

[silktricks]

Where do people get this idea that Europeans have a casual attitude toward affairs? They get very hurt as well and I have seen bad fallout from such situations yes, even here in amorous Italy.

 

I wasn't making any comparison about Europe vs America. I was speaking strictly of my opinion regarding Americans

 

And as for the American divorce rate--I don't think it is because of the disallusioned "fairy tale". I think most rational people go into a marriage with steady expectations. I think it is more the fact that Americans go on living as singles in their marriages rather than thinking big picture about the couple. We have an autonomous streak which is fine and wonderful, but autarky in a relationship can be deadly.

Although I think you are somewhat correct in the "living as singles" part (ever since the "me" generation), I do think that most Americans (forget the rational part ) do tend to believe in happily ever after. They feel that now they are married they have reached the goal and now they can sit back and "be happy". They forget that once the wedding is over the marriage can have difficult spots (sometimes excruciatingly difficult) and those difficult spots take work.

 

Americans have become very cavalier about our lives - in many ways. The couch isn't the right color? throw it out and buy another. The toaster doesn't work? throw it out and buy another. The wife doesn't turn me on whenever I look at her? throw her out and buy another. The husband doesn't make me "feel" good anymore? throw him out and buy another...

[OWoman]

Americans have become very cavalier about our lives - in many ways. The couch isn't the right color? throw it out and buy another. The toaster doesn't work? throw it out and buy another. The wife doesn't turn me on whenever I look at her? throw her out and buy another. The husband doesn't make me "feel" good anymore? throw him out and buy another...

 

Wasn't "built-in obsolescence" one of the drivers of modern / post-war capitalism?

[LakesideDream]

Then LsD... how come the converse didn't apply? Why did you not "know her well enough after a long marriage" not to be fooled by her? You'd been in the same marriage, just as long, and had spent as much time with her as she with you. Surely?

 

I'm genuinely curious.

 

 

That's a great question, one I had not considered previously. 1st she had been deceiving me with with this guy nearly the whole marriage. After we moved she had lots of "friends" she wanted to visit in the old town, and.. she claimed she was visiting the children as well. Instead of staying with her "old friends" she was shacking up in a hotel room with him. I trusted an respected her there was no reason to be suspicious. Remember this was in the age of 1.50 a minute cel phone roaming and the old home town was out of area. She only called when there was a change of schedule.

 

I also had no reason to think she'd been cheating. We were in a "transition" period, new town etc. Making new friends, learning new stuff. The small changes in her behavior were not remarkable.

 

As for out personal life, she was treating me great. I believed we had moved to "make a new start", wasn't being treated great a reasonable outcome of a "new start"? I know I had redoubled my efforts to be a better man since we'd relocated. Why not her?

 

Best I can come up with on short notice.

[OWoman]

That's a great question, one I had not considered previously. 1st she had been deceiving me with with this guy nearly the whole marriage. After we moved she had lots of "friends" she wanted to visit in the old town, and.. she claimed she was visiting the children as well. Instead of staying with her "old friends" she was shacking up in a hotel room with him. I trusted an respected her there was no reason to be suspicious. Remember this was in the age of 1.50 a minute cel phone roaming and the old home town was out of area. She only called when there was a change of schedule.

 

I also had no reason to think she'd been cheating. We were in a "transition" period, new town etc. Making new friends, learning new stuff. The small changes in her behavior were not remarkable.

 

As for out personal life, she was treating me great. I believed we had moved to "make a new start", wasn't being treated great a reasonable outcome of a "new start"? I know I had redoubled my efforts to be a better man since we'd relocated. Why not her?

 

Best I can come up with on short notice.

 

So I'm reading:

 

1) preparation

2) orientation

 

LsD, that kind of sustained, detached attention to detail sounds like she'd have been a very successful serial killer! In which case, I reckon you got off lightly!

[silktricks]

Wasn't "built-in obsolescence" one of the drivers of modern / post-war capitalism?

 

yes - but that doesn't make it any less disgusting

[LakesideDream]

So I'm reading:

 

1) preparation

2) orientation

 

LsD, that kind of sustained, detached attention to detail sounds like she'd have been a very successful serial killer! In which case, I reckon you got off lightly!

 

 

During the time she stayed in the marital home before moving into a new apartment she pretty much fessed up on the big things. In August a year and a half before the final D-day, she gave me a "need space" speach. (I've written about it before), it was premature as her BF couldnt leave to be with her at that time. She relented, thus the move to re-connect, and the move to where her BF lived part time.

 

They formed a "4 year plan" to deceive me, that plan would have taken her BF to a time when all of his children were 18 years old, as mine just were then. Ended up she wasn't able to keep to that timetable, and he ended up leaving his wife when his youngest was only 16.

 

She decided that her best way of executing the four year plan was to turn me into a real "happy camper". Something I encouraged, nutured and fostered because I believed that she was doing it out of love, not out of being the path of least resistance. She also reaped benifits herself, I did all I could to make her happy and content. Which made her life during that period much easier than it would have been if we had been living in conflict.

 

We had a lot of fun too. Some of our very best times were during that year, emotionally (for me) and romantically/sexually for both of us. She actually said when I asked "why" the good times that "an orgasm is an orgasm".

[OldEurope]

That's it! Cancel my flight! I'll go somewhere else instead, then...

 

Sorry to disappoint! But, anyway, it seems as if you have your hands full with the LS madhouse (a kind of La Cage aux Folles--but a little more, er, conventional, as far as we know); saving the Third World from the nasty First one (this is a joke ) and everything going on with your beau and "That Woman" (this was another joke )....You'll just have to find someplace more into sex than Italy, sorry! ( :laugh:)

 

By the way, did Lakeside deliver on the pix yet?

 

xox

OE

[twice_shy]

Where do people get this idea that Europeans have a casual attitude toward affairs?

 

From the french

[OWoman]

She actually said when I asked "why" the good times that "an orgasm is an orgasm".

 

In the singular? LsD you disappoint me...

[OWoman]

a kind of La Cage aux Folles--but a little more, er, conventional, as far as we know

 

I wouldn't count on it... :p

 

And no, no pix yet from LsD (hint, hint!)

[LakesideDream]

In the singular? LsD you disappoint me...

 

 

Hardly, for all her faults, responsiveness wasn't one of them. She was a joy in bed most of the time.

[Mino]

Not blaming you or anyone else at all. Still doesn't mean I can't despise despicable behavior when I see it.

 

 

 

 

LOL...nice try pumpkin. Yup, she is living it up. Her new boyfriend just got sent up the river for drugs, drinking and driving. What a favor I did.

 

 

 

 

Despising what you did has nothing to do with my situation. I despised cheaters way before I found out I had one.

 

 

 

 

and my kids

 

 

 

 

Yup, she was a selfish tramp.

 

 

 

 

 

I blame myself for being a fool. For staying home and watching our children while she went out and partied because I thought I was doing a good thing staying at home so she could get out with friends.

 

yes, I blame myself for that.

 

 

 

 

Your words are your words and they show that you are selfish. You said you'd do what you damn well please as long as it isn't illegal. don't even try to tell me you weren't talking about cheating.

 

 

 

Because I came here looking for talks on my situation. Well, my situation is over, I divorced her.

 

but then I found that there are alot of worthless people who betray others and try to justify it and make excuses...like you do, and like you tried to do with my x-tramp.

 

Nice try.

Why are you here? Why do you not move to the "coping" forum? It would be a much better fit for you....

[LakesideDream]

I wouldn't count on it... :p

 

And no, no pix yet from LsD (hint, hint!)

 

 

go to photobucket and search lakesidedream, I just uploaded 3 from 6 weeks ago, I'll update next week. Bedroom isn't finished yet, but I'll do that next week too.

[81West]

She decided that her best way of executing the four year plan was to turn me into a real "happy camper". Something I encouraged, nutured and fostered because I believed that she was doing it out of love, not out of being the path of least resistance. She also reaped benifits herself, I did all I could to make her happy and content. Which made her life during that period much easier than it would have been if we had been living in conflict.

 

We had a lot of fun too. Some of our very best times were during that year, emotionally (for me) and romantically/sexually for both of us. She actually said when I asked "why" the good times that "an orgasm is an orgasm".

 

It would take me a long, long, long time to get over this particular kind of deception and betrayal. In my own situation right now I find myself largely over the person, (I'll love him forever in a corner of my heart I think, but I could theoretically move on and open up to another person at this stage) but I'm not over the experience. It was a rather brutal abandonment, and I'm still trying to find equilibrium as a person changed by it. Anyway, I mean to say that it must have taken a great deal of personal strength and time to recover from your wife's actions. I'm so sorry you had to experience that, but hopefully the best is yet to come.

[Love4Eternity]

Love - you're wasting your time. Some people CAN'T hear. They're just not ready. One can only hope that he does sometime get the help he needs so that he can let go and move on, and ultimately find happiness.

 

You are so right on this one! He obviously does not have a clue and doesn't want to have one, nor can he read or understand plain English..He tends to put his own words and meanings to mine and concludes the worst of me but what ever he doesn't matter to me any ways...I am SURE he has a few skeletons in his closet that he isn't brave enough to put out there for fear of being judged instead he would rather hide behind his anger and judge everyone else, hate takes a lot more energy then foreignness in my opinion..............

[pelicanpreacher]

Read, read, read. I wans't living under a sword that last year, or attempting blissfull ignorance as you put it.

 

I didn't know she was cheating. I did know that she was happier, nicer, more romantic, hyper sexual, all the things I had hoped for in her as a mate for the previous 24 years.

 

I didn't know that she was "compensating" for her adultery, or plans to leave on a schedule.

 

She knew me well enough after a long marriage to fool me completely. it was a happy time for me until discovery day. Sure it was a lie. Howerever I have been pampered emotionally, physically, and sexually for a year (exactly to the day as it turned out) and it was blissful.

 

One other thing I've thought of is that something must have happened during the "chaos" of your marriage or within her lifetime to make her into a very cold and callous person.

 

The only reason I can think of for your wife to serve you such a fantastic "last meal" in the remaining year of your marriage was that she knew you might have retained unresolved trust issues during your seperation and, in order to truly destroy your world, treat you like a king until she was ready to strike her blow and bring you to your knees! I remember one of your earlier posts saying that when she finally admitted the affair she had some very harsh and ugly words to say about you and the marriage. I know you said that you parted amicably but I'm betting that she wanted your faith in her to rise to its zenith before seeing you really hurt badly when it ended so she could get her last laugh at your expense upon her exit.

 

Subconciously, even though you weren't aware of the affair or what her plans were against you, I'm betting that you were able to hold some trust back after reconcilliation of the seperation which prevented the complete destruction and the shattering of your life she intended once she made her move.

 

I'm glad to see a happy ending to a story like yours and extend my congratulations on your new home!

[LakesideDream]

One other thing I've thought of is that something must have happened during the "chaos" of your marriage or within her lifetime to make her into a very cold and callous person.

 

The only reason I can think of for your wife to serve you such a fantastic "last meal" in the remaining year of your marriage was that she knew you might have retained unresolved trust issues during your seperation and, in order to truly destroy your world, treat you like a king until she was ready to strike her blow and bring you to your knees! I remember one of your earlier posts saying that when she finally admitted the affair she had some very harsh and ugly words to say about you and the marriage. I know you said that you parted amicably but I'm betting that she wanted your faith in her to rise to its zenith before seeing you really hurt badly when it ended so she could get her last laugh at your expense upon her exit.

 

Subconciously, even though you weren't aware of the affair or what her plans were against you, I'm betting that you were able to hold some trust back after reconcilliation of the seperation which prevented the complete destruction and the shattering of your life she intended once she made her move.

 

I'm glad to see a happy ending to a story like yours and extend my congratulations on your new home!

 

 

PelecianPreacher, You are correct in that the first "I need space" literally killed a lot of the trust I had in her. There were places she couldn't reach anymore, as that pain was by far the most intense.

 

The harsh and ugly stuff didn't come until 6 weeks after D-day when she actually moved out. She began to realize that the comfort and security, not to mention the saftey net were gone forever. She became afraid, and lashed out a lot. Some of what she said was very hurtful, some of it had no lasting effect as it was just silly, and hurtfull stuff.

 

As I look back at it today, all of it was just silly stuff, meant to be hurtful not the truth. I wish her no ill, or happiness now at all.

[OWoman]

I wish her no ill, or happiness now at all.

 

True equanimity - how very Buddhist, LsD! Enlightenment can't be far off...

[nellstar]

I expect my man to be man enough to tell me that he's having an affair. I wouldn't hear it from the OW. The last thing I want is to have her right in my face.

[twice_shy]

I expect my man to be man enough to tell me that he's having an affair. I wouldn't hear it from the OW. The last thing I want is to have her right in my face.

 

I wouldn't care who I heard it from as long as someone told me and I wasn't blindly playing the fool.

[nadiaj2727]

I expect my man to be man enough to tell me that he's having an affair. I wouldn't hear it from the OW. The last thing I want is to have her right in my face.

 

I agree, but if he was man enough he probably wouldn't get involved in an affair in the first place. He would just tell me he was unhappy and leave, or if he did something against our relationship and truly loved me then he would confess it to me right away and ask for my forgiveness. (a la the Sex and the City movie-- I admire that man for being honest despite the risks/ consequences! [Yes I'm a girly girl who goes to see Sex and the City with girlfriends after cosmos LOL])

 

So yes, I'd like to know if my husband was cheating on me, preferably from him. I hope he'd eventually wise up and stop being a coward so that I could hear it from HIM but if he didn't then I'd want ANYONE to tell me, the OW or whoever. Otherwise, the longer it went on behind my back, the more I'd feel like a fool. He would have to be no man at all to humiliate me like that.

 

I believe in forgiveness depending on the level of indiscretion and remorse but if I found out from someone else that it had been going on for a long time I couldn't forgive him because I would always wonder if he had EVER planned to tell me and how long it would have continued had someone else not told me. If that was the case I hope I would have the strength to say good riddance to bad rubbish and walk away for good without ever looking back... just like I eventually found the strength to do with xMM because I realized he was no man at all. He was willingly continuing to be in an affair without telling his wife when he KNEW from her that it would humilate her and when she had asked him point blank if he was seeing someone else. I can't believe I was apart of that deception but eventually it became clear to me that he didn't truly love either one of us and was being disrespectful to both of us. He was cheating behind her back AND keeping me a secret. I guess that is the nature of most affairs and it sucked but I realized that a man who could do that is no man at all.