Another porn question...

[trust]

I'd say it's a combination of both. It's always nice to have male support no doubt. It's too bad more guys can't be supportive when it comes to porn issues though.

 

More = one more = me --> you not so sad. I'm with you. Porn and a "healthy" marriage do not mix.

 

If I am a teetotaler, you're a pro-porn activist.

HAHAHAHA well said!

What I hate is how most men consistently defend it over the real woman in their life. How most men lie about it, showing the importance of it in his life. How there is a lack of self control from men when it comes to porn, looking at other women and fantasizing about them. I really don't think asking for self control is asking too much. I don't really think most men value self control in themselves and rather live by the idea that they are "men" and that's why it's okay to do x, y, and z.

I couldn't agree with you more.

 

 

 

At some point in a relationship, porn is a subsitute for real intimacy at the given moment a man is choosing to look at a porn. You can attempt to placate that idea with such situations as "she isn't avaible". But how many men would still look at porn no matter how avaible their women made themselves to him? Conclusion: No matter what you do as a woman, a man is never happy with what he gets. A man obviously needs both porn and a real life relationship to feel fullfilled. As indicated by the many men that can't seem to let go of that loyatly to their porn over their SO.

Excellent points.

 

 

I don't see alot of posts on here about women forbidding their husbands to do things. The key difference between golf and porn is that golf doesn't have naked young women running around. The fact that pornography is in essence about women and sex, puts it on a different playing field then something as asexual as golf. I do see alot of posts where women are made to feel insecure about their position in their man's life when he makes pornography a regular guest into their relationship. And I see alot of men that don't really want to give value the importance of what their partner is saying in regards to porn. I don't think men put much stock in how a woman can be effect negativly by pornography.

Tell it like it is Jersey!

 

 

Why would you already want to rub more salt into the wound Starman? I think that seems a little cruel on your part. But whatever.

 

A fantasy here and there is not a big deal. the degree to which men to think about other women, look at porn and the million other things men expect women to just "deal" with, is over whelming. I am not asking for men to be perfect...let me repeat: I am not asknig perfection from men. I am asking for more self control. It's not attractive in either partner when we let our "hormones" dictate what we do. Men like it no less in women. And women should in return to there best to not use their reactions as reason to do crappy things. I will repeat it again. I am not asking for perfection from men. I am asking for self control. But from the comments many men make it dosne't seem like there is a whole lot of self control being excerised. It's pretty easy to sustain monogomy when you have such outlegs like porn. And it makes that monogomy seem worth less.

 

And while I will sometimes look at a man out with his family and wonder how much porn he looks at and what he looks like, there IS something completely disheartening in the fact that you see a man there with his family, with his wife, his daughters and his sons, and when he goes home at night, he jsut might be pulling out some porno of 18 year old college girls showing their breasts. It makes that whole idea of family, love, respect and loyatly seem like a big joke to men. Because obviously that is what trumps at the end of the day.

Yes I mean "most" men but considering it is "most" men it can feel like all men. Most of us run into "most men".

Understood. And understand that *I* am not most men.

[angryyoungman70]

Porn and marriage do not mix.

 

This is completely your own personal point of view (and perhaps JS' as well).

 

While I agree that porn addiction is just like any other kind of self-destructive addiction, especially if sex with your SO takes a backseat to porn, I know many married couples that have extremely healthy sex lives AND porn is a part of thier mutually satisfying sexual relationships.

[J2FT1]

I don't think he can come around. He has a lot of emotional turmoil from his past and I think he has a sexual addiction, maybe as a result.

 

His mother pretty much disowned him. His family is Mormon, and he is not and that was a huge factor in why they decided to leave him behind. That and he was 'leftover' from a prior marriage.

 

He feels low about himself, and I can see why. Having your family abandon you has to be pretty hard. I've tried to be here for him in anyway that I can. I am constantly assuring him he is a good person, and that I love him. But it isn't enough it seems. He will probably always be afraid of connecting too intimately with a real person, maybe for fear of being hurt again.

 

His upbringing also taught him that masturbation is dirty and wrong. His mother once caught him with a playboy type magazine and waited until a family function to out him on it, in front of all of his relatives. As a result, our sex life has been hindered, because he is too ashamed to do things with me. For example, I once wrote him a dirty letter and emailed it to him. It made him uncomfortable and he said he isn't into that sort of thing. I also once asked him to use a toy on me (he is always watching porn with women and vibrators, so I thought he was into that) and he refused. He will not masturbate anywhere near me and likes to keep it as this private, shameful event.

 

I read once that porn addiction often is about feeling the shame. Sort of a self punishment if you will. And I am sure it is a way for him to distance himself from the intimacy a marriage requires.

 

For now it is the porn, but I am sure eventually it will lead to other things, more strip clubs, an affair, prostitutes - what have you. A couple of months ago I noticed he had been viewing escorts on craigslist and was really upset. He swore he wasn't looking because he was interested, rather, because of the Elliott Spitzer fiasco and a program on NPR he had heard about online escorts. So it piqued his curiosity if this sort of thing really did exist. But part of me thinks he is full of it.

 

I don't trust him, and as a result I am constantly worrying about him having an affair. I know this is not healthy. If he is going to cheat, he is going to and there is probably little I can do to prevent it. Logically, I know this, but it is hard sometimes to think logically when emotions are involved.

 

I've often thought of getting breast implants, and doing other things I think may increase my attractiveness to him. And I know this is silly too. He should love me for who I am, after all he chose to marry me and I never had huge breasts or looked like a porn star. But I find myself in this competition mode sometimes, as stupid as I know it is.

 

I am just so upset I can hardly think clearly about any of this. I'm at work right now and I can't focus one bit. My stomach feels like it is in knots and my eyes are red and puffy from all of the crying I've done.

 

After reading about your husband's past, I now understand why he does what he does. You have stated that he will not go to counseling with you and there is the problem. Before you can fix a problem, you have to admit there's a problem.

 

I truly believe the ball is in your court. You have to be the one to make a move. You have to understand that most of the problems lie with him and that you cannot control what he does, you can only control what you do. Something is clearly wrong with him because he doesn't see (at all) what he has. I mean, is a hobby of yours seriously cooking gourmet meals!? You seem to be a good women and deserve a lot more than he can muster at this moment.

 

I think if you still love him you should think about a seperation for a period of time. Get away from him for a while so he understands your worth. If he is fixable, he will come around. If not, you have to do what's best for yourself and your children.

 

Good luck to you.

 

P.S. Do not get breast implants, you don't need it. What you need is a loving man by your side.

[Starman]

This is completely your own personal point of view (and perhaps JS' as well).

 

While I agree that porn addiction is just like any other kind of self-destructive addiction, especially if sex with your SO takes a backseat to porn, I know many married couples that have extremely healthy sex lives AND porn is a part of thier mutually satisfying sexual relationships.

 

This is all I have been trying to say, although I admit that some of my comments have been sarcastic and caustic at times. Everyone is entitled to their opinions on the issue, but let's leave them as such, just personal opinions as anecdotal examples can be found on both sides of the issue.

 

Although I don't think anyone wants to see a relationship suffer, regardless of the reasons.

[Jennifer26]

My boss noticed how distraught I am today, and offered to give me the afternoon off.

 

So, I am heading out the door to go home. Husband and I just got into another heated argument over the phone. He is still insisting this is all my problem and that he is tired of being blamed for my issues and won't put up with it much longer.

 

I hope I can keep my cool. I feel pretty calm at the moment and clear on what I plan to say to him, which is that I will no longer continue in this marriage if we are going to assign blame, and not work on our separate issues.

 

I have issues as well, and I know that. But I am willing to admit my faults, and while I'm not always perfect, I do strive to always change and better myself. I realize that I cannot "fix" him or control him and I don't intend to try.

 

He can make the decision as to how important his family is to him, and how far he is willing to go to support this marriage. I am going to make counseling a contingency in all of this. While I hate giving out ultimatums or forcing him to go, I don't see how we can possibly resolve this one on our own and some third party perspective might be very helpful.

 

Will update you guys on what happens when I get home. Thanks for listening, and thank you for the support you've provided. ((hugs))

[Jersey Shortie]

 

While I agree that porn addiction is just like any other kind of self-destructive addiction, especially if sex with your SO takes a backseat to porn, I know many married couples that have extremely healthy sex lives AND porn is a part of thier mutually satisfying sexual relationships.

 

And how exactly do you know these "many married couples that have extremely healthy sex lives with porn"? I am just curious because if there is one thing I have learned is that things are rarely how they are presented to outsiders. I have seen many marriages end in divorce that we all had thought were doing really well.

 

And I am sure there are many healthy sex lives that don't include porn into the mix.

 

Regardless, it doesn't change the fact that for the time being, when a man is viewing porn, he is, in that moment, replacing his SO with that porn and fantasy. No matter how temoporary is. I have heard so many men say "as long as it doesn't replace their SO". But that seems to be in essence part of the lure of porn. It is a temporary replacement from your SO. Correct me I am wrong but I really don't think I am since I have heard many men themselves say porn is for variety.

[trust]

This is completely your own personal point of view (and perhaps JS' as well).

 

What is sexual integrity? And can you tell me something different that hasn't already been said on this thread?

 

While I agree that porn addiction is just like any other kind of self-destructive addiction, especially if sex with your SO takes a backseat to porn,

Oooh...ok. You agree that porn, being addictive, after it moves in it's natural direction of addiction and has then finally crossed the line, then it's a problem for you. The point is why play with it? I'd like for you to try an experiment. Take your previous sentence, substitute "porn" with "alcohol". It would read like so:

 

While I agree that alcohol addiction is just like any other kind of self-destructive addiction, especially if something bad happens that effects someone else as a result, it's still a personal preference.

 

Ok. Now. Put on an airline captain's uniform, walk to the front of a plane where others are entrusting you as their pilot, and repeat that sentence to the passengers with a straight face. How much trust do you think you'll have from the people on that plane? Even if they *knew* you, what do you think would happen to the level of trust?

 

I know many married couples that have extremely healthy sex lives AND porn is a part of thier mutually satisfying sexual relationships.

Correction. You don't know as much about that relationship as you think you know. And just because it's lasted a year, two years, etc. doesn't mean the damage hasn't set in or won't catch up with them soon.

 

Question for you: How much sexual integrity do you think you have?

[Jersey Shortie]

I also tend to think that if porn was such a wealth of healthy sex, our country, especially men should be extremely sexually healthy. And the truth is we aren't. I think sex is sexually healthy. I however don't even understand how you can describe something as cold, cartoonish, and over the top, sometimes degrading to women...often degrading to women...as something that is "healthy". Perhaps this is a lie we tell ourselves as society to make ourselves feel better.

[trust]

My boss noticed how distraught I am today, and offered to give me the afternoon off.

 

So, I am heading out the door to go home. Husband and I just got into another heated argument over the phone. He is still insisting this is all my problem and that he is tired of being blamed for my issues and won't put up with it much longer.

 

I hope I can keep my cool. I feel pretty calm at the moment and clear on what I plan to say to him, which is that I will no longer continue in this marriage if we are going to assign blame, and not work on our separate issues.

 

I have issues as well, and I know that. But I am willing to admit my faults, and while I'm not always perfect, I do strive to always change and better myself. I realize that I cannot "fix" him or control him and I don't intend to try.

 

He can make the decision as to how important his family is to him, and how far he is willing to go to support this marriage. I am going to make counseling a contingency in all of this. While I hate giving out ultimatums or forcing him to go, I don't see how we can possibly resolve this one on our own and some third party perspective might be very helpful.

 

Will update you guys on what happens when I get home. Thanks for listening, and thank you for the support you've provided. ((hugs))

 

Poor girl! Be with your family and those who love and support you. Everything you said made sense. Hang in there. Sounds like an excellent plan.

 

((hug back))

[Starman]

My boss noticed how distraught I am today, and offered to give me the afternoon off.

 

So, I am heading out the door to go home. Husband and I just got into another heated argument over the phone. He is still insisting this is all my problem and that he is tired of being blamed for my issues and won't put up with it much longer.

 

I hope I can keep my cool. I feel pretty calm at the moment and clear on what I plan to say to him, which is that I will no longer continue in this marriage if we are going to assign blame, and not work on our separate issues.

 

I have issues as well, and I know that. But I am willing to admit my faults, and while I'm not always perfect, I do strive to always change and better myself. I realize that I cannot "fix" him or control him and I don't intend to try.

 

He can make the decision as to how important his family is to him, and how far he is willing to go to support this marriage. I am going to make counseling a contingency in all of this. While I hate giving out ultimatums or forcing him to go, I don't see how we can possibly resolve this one on our own and some third party perspective might be very helpful.

 

Will update you guys on what happens when I get home. Thanks for listening, and thank you for the support you've provided. ((hugs))

 

Good luck Jen. I sure hope things take a turn for the better for you.

[angryyoungman70]

What is sexual integrity? And can you tell me something different that hasn't already been said on this thread?

 

Oooh...ok. You agree that porn, being addictive, after it moves in it's natural direction of addiction and has then finally crossed the line, then it's a problem for you. The point is why play with it? I'd like for you to try an experiment. Take your previous sentence, substitute "porn" with "alcohol". It would read like so:

 

While I agree that alcohol addiction is just like any other kind of self-destructive addiction, especially if something bad happens that effects someone else as a result, it's still a personal preference.

 

Ok. Now. Put on an airline captain's uniform, walk to the front of a plane where others are entrusting you as their pilot, and repeat that sentence to the passengers with a straight face. How much trust do you think you'll have from the people on that plane? Even if they *knew* you, what do you think would happen to the level of trust?

 

Correction. You don't know as much about that relationship as you think you know. And just because it's lasted a year, two years, etc. doesn't mean the damage hasn't set in or won't catch up with them soon.

 

Question for you: How much sexual integrity do you think you have?

 

 

Hmm well, you ask "How many" married couples that I know that are ok with and even use porn together? the answer is 11. The average lenghth of marriage is around 10 years. My sister is in one of those marriages. Also, if I choose to have a few beers on the weekend while installing hardwood flooring in my kids' rooms, does that make me an alcoholic? In your logic I guess it does. Since something like alcohol vis-a-vis porn is something that graduates to an addiction with time, I guess I've been waiting for alcohol to turn into an addiction for the better part of 19 years. Hasn't happend yet, but once it does, I'll let you know.

 

Now, I am NOT an advocate of porn, nor am I morally opposed to it, unless it is the kind of imagery that is degrading, "kiddee" porn, or if it becomes an addiction and causes harm to others. In this case, the person with the problem should seek help, whatever the addiction may be.

 

My biggest beef with the soapbox crowd is the steadfast absolution that thier moral high ground is flawless and anyone disagreeing be damned. Moderate beliefs and debateable viewpoints fall upon deaf ears. It reminds me of extremism. You know what that is right?

[Mr. Lucky]

Regardless, it doesn't change the fact that for the time being, when a man is viewing porn, he is, in that moment, replacing his SO with that porn and fantasy. No matter how temoporary is. I have heard so many men say "as long as it doesn't replace their SO". But that seems to be in essence part of the lure of porn. It is a temporary replacement from your SO. Correct me I am wrong but I really don't think I am since I have heard many men themselves say porn is for variety.

Jersey and others:

 

My wife has a vibrator. She uses it for her sexual satisfaction to supplement our sex life, sometimes when we're together and sometimes when she's alone (She's 10 years younger than I am, I'm in my late 50's and just not an "every night" kind of guy anymore ). I have never thought to ask her what she thinks about when she masturbates, although threads like this have made me curious.

 

Anyway, my simple question for you is as follows - is what she's doing wrong and disrespectful to our relationship ???

 

Mr. Lucky

[Jennifer26]

Well, he left. Didn't even say he was going, just ran out the door.

 

I feel so numb right now.

[Starman]

Well, he left. Didn't even say he was going, just ran out the door.

 

I feel so numb right now.

 

That is just terrible! Can't believe that he wouldn't even have the decency to at least talk about things and listen to what you have to say.

 

I'm so sorry Jen. <hugs>

[Jennifer26]

The best part is he is a stay at home dad with our two boys. So literally, I have no where to take our children in the morning to get to work.

 

He also decided to leave with our carseat & stroller in the car, so he effectively left me stranded here. And I have no family or friends who live anywhere nearby (kind of out in the sticks).

 

I am just angry beyond words.

[angryyoungman70]

Regardless, it doesn't change the fact that for the time being, when a man is viewing porn, he is, in that moment, replacing his SO with that porn and fantasy. No matter how temoporary is. I have heard so many men say "as long as it doesn't replace their SO". But that seems to be in essence part of the lure of porn. It is a temporary replacement from your SO. Correct me I am wrong but I really don't think I am since I have heard many men themselves say porn is for variety.

 

Here's a scenario: You're in an 18 year LTR. Your SO has little to no sex drive. She does not see this as an issue. You, on the other hand DO see this as an issue. You've tried to be understanding, you've pounded your head against the wall, you've thought about ending the R, hell, you've even posted some of your big ticket issues on a web-forum. All the while, you've never strayed outside of the relationship, however the resentment has grown and you one day find yourself an angry, bitter individual. Your SO sees this and tells you to go on anti-depressants or you can leave. You agree, and lo-and-behold, they work! You no longer care that you have a miserable sex life! An additional bonus is that the anti-depressants have ....er...sexual side-effects. Now, you have ED! Yay! Never was a problem before. So, one day you think "Hmmm it's been almost 2 months since I had sex, and at least 2 weeks since anything has stirred down there. Maybe I'll pleasure myself and try to reconnect with that part of me that is (was) a sexual creature". Alas, you can not make your member perform. Then you remember that you have a few Penthouse magazines stashed in the basement. You leaf through the first one you find, and voila...you have confirmed to yourself that your reproductive organs still work. You are still a man. Now, if your SO had been so inclined to even care about your dillema, well...that's a whole other scenario isn't it.

 

So my question to you is: What are your "Higher ground" thoughts on a man who uses porn as a replacement of his SO because his SO has made herself unavailable? Even moreso, your thoughts in the scenario above where the SO has been a factor in forcing ED upon her spouse?

[Starman]

The best part is he is a stay at home dad with our two boys. So literally, I have no where to take our children in the morning to get to work.

 

He also decided to leave with our carseat & stroller in the car, so he effectively left me stranded here. And I have no family or friends who live anywhere nearby (kind of out in the sticks).

 

I am just angry beyond words.

 

That is beyond selfish on his part. And now, instead of having a normal discussion with you about things you now have to explain to your boys where Dad is because of his actions. Unbelievable. What is going on in his head??

[michelangelo]

Here's a scenario: You're in an 18 year LTR. Your SO has little to no sex drive. She does not see this as an issue. You, on the other hand DO see this as an issue. You've tried to be understanding, you've pounded your head against the wall, you've thought about ending the R, hell, you've even posted some of your big ticket issues on a web-forum. All the while, you've never strayed outside of the relationship, however the resentment has grown and you one day find yourself an angry, bitter individual. Your SO sees this and tells you to go on anti-depressants or you can leave. You agree, and lo-and-behold, they work! You no longer care that you have a miserable sex life! An additional bonus is that the anti-depressants have ....er...sexual side-effects. Now, you have ED! Yay! Never was a problem before. So, one day you think "Hmmm it's been almost 2 months since I had sex, and at least 2 weeks since anything has stirred down there. Maybe I'll pleasure myself and try to reconnect with that part of me that is (was) a sexual creature". Alas, you can not make your member perform. Then you remember that you have a few Penthouse magazines stashed in the basement. You leaf through the first one you find, and voila...you have confirmed to yourself that your reproductive organs still work. You are still a man. Now, if your SO had been so inclined to even care about your dillema, well...that's a whole other scenario isn't it.

 

So my question to you is: What are your "Higher ground" thoughts on a man who uses porn as a replacement of his SO because his SO has made herself unavailable? Even moreso, your thoughts in the scenario above where the SO has been a factor in forcing ED upon her spouse?

 

Bravo!

 

Excellent posting.

[Mr. Lucky]

For the most part I have been extremely loyal to him. With the exeption of a few years ago (when our marriage was at a really rocky point and we never saw each other due to opposite work schedules) I screwed up and went seeking attention from other men online. I ceased that behavior long ago however, and I was upfront and told him everything I had done, which included showing a nude photograph of myself.

I went back a few pages in this thread and realized that I had missed this. I was also surprised that no one else commented on it. There is more than a little bit of irony in your anger with your H's use of porn if you've sent nude pix of yourself to other men...

 

Mr. Lucky

[luvstarved]

There are virtually as many opinions on this as there are people, but there are only two opinions that matter. Yours and your SOs.

 

What bugs me is the rationalization of deceit and dishonesty and the vehement insistence that an SO cannot tell the other how to act and behave.

 

A marriage should at least be built on a foundation of informed choice. Yes. Every man on the planet has the inalienable right to look at porn as much as he wants. How dare his wife say otherwise? Because, gentlemen, she has the right to not be with a man who wants to look at porn as much as he wants.

 

To me, it is absolute hubris to say that your SO "should" feel this way and that about something, because that's how YOU feel. It is unfair and incorrect and downright self-righteous. It is disrespectful and selfish to hide something from your SO so that you can do what you want without consequence. And it is cowardice to not stand up for what you want and believe is harmless out of fear that you will lose the "insecure" person you claim to love and cherish.

 

What ought to be happening is disclosure and compromise and personal choice. Har de har har.

 

Guys if the porn is important, say so. If your SO says it is unacceptable, then attempt to compromise. "Well I will still look but I will make sure to do it discreetly". If that is not acceptable to her, then you have a choice to give up the porn or give up the SO. You don't have the right to tell her that her thinking is wrong, that SHE has a problem, that SHE is insecure. You think what you think, and she thinks what she thinks and if you can't respect that and make your trade-offs and choices and be content with that, well, you're choosing to live a fantasy and a bad one at that.

 

Good grief. Try to genuinely understand the other's point of view. Listen to each other. In my experience, this kind of disagreement is largely based on nothing more than colossal misunderstandings.

 

This topic is highly sensitive in relationships and rightly so, because sex is after all the primary aspect that separates the relationship from "good friendship". It is supposed to be "special" and exclusive in a monogamous relationship!

 

But, you could extend the unfairness and deceit into other areas...

 

Ladies, suppose you were opposed to hunting and would not want to be in a R with a hunter. Then you find out that your husband is sneaking off for weekends to play "golf" and you find out he is out hunting. You would feel betrayed, no? YES he has a right to hunt, but YOU have a right to be with a NON HUNTER!

 

Guys, suppose you disliked when your wife dressed in a provocative manner and would never want to be married to someone who did that. Then you find out that your wife is sneaking off on Friday nights with her girfriends all dressed to thrill. Sure, some of you would say "all right!!!" but remember the 'suppose'.

 

Or, you don't believe in the consumption of veal, but Friday night chili is being made with it...

 

Insert anything that you would object to, for WHATEVER reason, and imagine finding out that your SO is doing it anyway, knowing your feelings on it, and when confronted, tells you that they had a right to do it, that your opinion is wrong, and that your entire objection is based on your insecurity, and that they HAD to lie about it because YOU forced them to. Adding the fact that in the case of porn, it also involves redirecting sexual energy away from YOU and toward other people, real or not, now imagine being told that you're being a typical stereotypical male who just doesn't "get it"...in essence, a cartoon whose feelings are silly and don't matter.

 

Got it?

 

If not, and you are saying, well that never happens, everybody is unreasonable, what people don't know won't hurt them, you can't really have that kind of conversation, etc then I have a question and a comment.

 

1) Have you ever really tried it?

2) If you think mutual understanding is impossible, then it is pointless to complain about not having it.

[Jersey Shortie]

My wife has a vibrator. She uses it for her sexual satisfaction to supplement our sex life, sometimes when we're together and sometimes when she's alone (She's 10 years younger than I am, I'm in my late 50's and just not an "every night" kind of guy anymore ). I have never thought to ask her what she thinks about when she masturbates, although threads like this have made me curious.

 

Anyway, my simple question for you is as follows - is what she's doing wrong and disrespectful to our relationship ???

 

Well for one thing, I would be much less threatened or hurt if my guy was using the male version of a dildo to pleasure himself. It's the porn that directly gets to me and is a different story.

 

Secondly, I don't use a vibe, in a relationship or not so it's hard for me to answer this. My fantasy's revolve around my partner when I am in a relationship.

 

I just find the amount of things men expect women to be "cool" with over-whelming.

 

 

So my question to you is: What are your "Higher ground" thoughts on a man who uses porn as a replacement of his SO because his SO has made herself unavailable? Even moreso, your thoughts in the scenario above where the SO has been a factor in forcing ED upon her spouse?

 

Well, in the scene you described I would consider his partner selfish that she wasn't working on the problem together. And she is part of the problem since she isn't doing anything to work with her partner. I could completely understand a man turning to porn in a case like that. I already do understand why men like porn sometimes even at the same time wishing they would exersize more self-control. And even while I do question what men really think about women seeing the kind of porn that seems to be the most popular.

 

I understand that there are alot of men out there in exactly that situation. And I completely agree that that isn't fair or right. However, there are also alot of women out there that like sex, and like having sex with their partner regularly. And like to be the one he actually is thinking about while having sex with her. And still, the majority of men masturbate to porn whether they are getting sex or not. Which tells me that he is producing the same results whether he is having sex with you or masturbating. So what is the point? He gets to use you interchangably with the porn to reach the same out come. It is jus tas disheartening as it is, I am sure, for men out there that wives turn then down and don't give them sex at all.

 

I completely have sympathy for that situation, but that is not the only situation in which men are looking at porn. And if a man needs both porn and a real woman in his life to be sexuall satisified, it would seem that the real woman is just as important as the porn unfortunetly

 

However, where I completely disagree with you is where you say this:

 

Even moreso, your thoughts in the scenario above where the SO has been a factor in forcing ED upon her spouse?

 

 

I don't understand how it's the SO's fault that the man has ED? We are all in control of our own state of mind. He is depressed because of himself, even if she has done things to hurt him. But to blame her for his ED, is a huge cop out in acknowledging his own shortcomings (no pun intended). He needs to be accountable for his own ED. Placing that on her is completely unfair.

[RavenHair]

Am I the only one seeing a pattern here?

 

What we are ending up with, in this thread, are two girls (Jen and Raven) who have obviously come here to do more venting than listening, learning, and benefitting from the help.

 

Then we have the 3rd party, consisting of one camp with low to no integrity battling it out with folks in another camp, who at least fight for high integrity.

 

Neither camp is "perfect" but that's not what it's all about. The folks in the no-to-low integrity camp are in that camp because they aren't as emotionally wise as the folks in the high integrity camp. Their best defense is ignorance. The only good excuse though, is youth. We are supposed to live and learn but unfortunately, most will let the learning just "happen" by making mistakes. So eventually they are no longer young, and unfortunately, not very wise either. But since they don't like what the high-integrity camp has to say, and are feeling attacked, they hold out, and allow their decisions to be more emotion based decisions than decisions of wisdom and reason. After all, it's the path of least resistance.

 

We have folks who are bordering each camp. These bordering folks are thinking whether they should move to the other camp. It's a wonderful thing when someone in the low-to-no integrity camp, usually someone on the border, "see's the light" from the wiser camp because of proximity, and changes camps.

 

It's really sad when someone is on the border of the high integrity camp, and is swayed into dumbing it down. Mainly because the low-to-no integrity camp requires less work.

 

What I would like to know is: Who's winning here?

 

Trust(?),

Ummm, what are you talking about? This sounds like a very strange pseudo-philosophical rant that doesn't fit in this post and leads NOWHERE. First of all, I just asked for some advice. I didn't keep posting and responding to everyone who added a thread, so that should be an indicator that I was reading and listening to the advice. As a matter of fact the constructive advice actually helped. For MY husband, yes, I wonder why he's jacking off to porn and looking at it every time he's on the computer. As I stated, I have a high sex drive, I'm attractive and I'm ready to have sex all of the time and he still looks at porn. I don't like it. Also if you bothered to read the other post I made, you would have seen the part where I said that he got mad about me making a comment about another man on television, mind you, I was NOT RUBBING ONE OUT to another man as he's done to other women in porn movies. My issue is that it's supposed to be okay for him to look at other women, I'm supposed to be fine with that because it's "natural" and he's a man and all that other garbage. The bottom line is that I have the right to feel the way I feel. YOU don't have to agree with it, but there are many women who do not like when their partners look at porn and there are those who simply don't care. I just happen to be one of the people who care. It's not about trying to "recruit" people into my camp, I was just stating how his habit made me feel and seeing the advice people had to offer...that's it. And if the post of yours that I just quoted was your attempt at trying to offer your own version of "beneficial help" please don't do it again. It wasn't helpful.

[michelangelo]

Well for one thing, I would be much less threatened or hurt if my guy was using the male version of a dildo to pleasure himself. It's the porn that directly gets to me and is a different story.

 

Wow, you solved your distress if you realize that a guy using porn to whack off to IS the male equivalent of a woman masturbating with a vibrator.

[The Collector]

I think if most women used porn and most men used a vibrating device, Jersey Shortie would still come up with a reason why porn was ok for women, but vibrating devices just proved men couldn't exercise self-control, didn't value women, etc.

[Jersey Shortie]

No it isn't. A man using a sex toy is equal to a woman using a sex toy. Not looking at porn of a loop of interchangable women that don't age past the age of 25, have implants, and are basically jsut there to service guys to get off...that husbands and boyfriends lust/pant after despite having someone that loves them. Men aren't exactly loyal creatures.