Mr. Lucky Posted July 3, 2008 Share Posted July 3, 2008 I have great female friends, who are forthright, kind, intelligent, but who knows what little psychodramas go on behind the closed front door. Way off topic, but do you ever notice how strange other people's marriages seem to you as an outsider? My wife and I have "couple" friends that, when taken individually, seem like normal, well adjusted and down-to-earth people. However, put 'em together, watch how they treat each other and the wierdness starts. Happens every time and always makes me appreciate the woman I married... Mr. Lucky Link to post Share on other sites
Jersey Shortie Posted July 3, 2008 Share Posted July 3, 2008 well yes you would find men selfish and insensitive. and many of us are, get over it or dont, your choice. That's fine. If I have to deal with selfish men, I will be selfish in return. However, I wish it could be different and both sexes could be less selfish. I guess that is naive for me to hope considering that you seem to be saying: "men are selfish and that's the way we like it and we don't care if it's at the expense of women". i wonder how you became so enlightened that you have talked your self out of happiness? Deep waters and that sort of junk..... finally, i have heard some references to "real women" .. what is that all about? the women in porn arent real? if they are willing to stretch their sexual boundries, than it must be possible for all women (and men) to do so. why can they and "real" women cant? frankly, i think there is no such thing as "real" women, only people. people are all unique, stop thinking you are so special and the rest of us are denegrates. Well I never said I was so special and that everyone else was denegrates. If I really thought that I wouldn't spend the time I do having internet battles over porn.. I need a hobby. Of course the women in porn are real people. However, they aren't what real women are about. Most women don't love having sex with 10 different men who are just using us to get their rocks off. We aren't all 25 with perfect bodies and implants. We don't scream like rock starlettes just because a guy puts his finger in our mouth like it was the most decadent Godiva Chocolate pop we ever had. And while we love our breasts, we don't get oodles and oodles of pleasure feeling ourselves up or smacking our asses and giggling. We don't walk around in platfrom stripper shoes 24/7. So yes, obviously the women in porn are real. That is very literal. But beyond that, porn isn't really about what interests women, what turns them on or the other million facets to women that make us women. Porn is one sided and it's all over cartooned for the benefit of the viewer. Link to post Share on other sites
demrea Posted July 3, 2008 Share Posted July 3, 2008 Porn is ....all over cartooned for the benefit of the viewer. so you know porn has no basis in reality yet you still hold resentment over those who watch it? what about people who like to watch horror kill em all movies? surely enjoying people simulate over the top descriptions of murder is as bad (if not worse) than cartooned up sex, no? do you see a family walking down the street and imagine the man (or woman) going home and getting stimulated by watching Friday the 13th and be disgusted that he is fantasizing about murdering his neighbor? ... porn isn't really about what interests women, what turns them on or the other million facets to women that make us women. . then dont watch it .. its not intended for you. .. I need a hobby. . seems to me you already have one ... manufacturing reasons to hate men. porn is an easy path for you. Link to post Share on other sites
SunnySideUp Posted July 3, 2008 Share Posted July 3, 2008 Way off topic, but do you ever notice how strange other people's marriages seem to you as an outsider? My wife and I have "couple" friends that, when taken individually, seem like normal, well adjusted and down-to-earth people. However, put 'em together, watch how they treat each other and the wierdness starts. Happens every time and always makes me appreciate the woman I married... Mr. Lucky i'd give you a high five if I could. I agree, I hate the way most people I know interact in their relationships/marriages. I wish they all realized how forgetting respect, restraint, and patience is ruining their relationships. Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Lucky Posted July 4, 2008 Share Posted July 4, 2008 i'd give you a high five if I could. I agree, I hate the way most people I know interact in their relationships/marriages. I wish they all realized how forgetting respect, restraint, and patience is ruining their relationships. High five accepted . It makes me physically uncomfortable to be the presence of two people treating each other this way. They seem to think that their pettiness and anger is invisible to others... Mr. Lucky Link to post Share on other sites
Jersey Shortie Posted July 4, 2008 Share Posted July 4, 2008 so you know porn has no basis in reality yet you still hold resentment over those who watch it? It has no basis in reality yet it doesn't stop men from being turned on by it or wanting the things they see in it, action or people. what about people who like to watch horror kill em all movies? surely enjoying people simulate over the top descriptions of murder is as bad (if not worse) than cartooned up sex, no? I hate horror kill em movies. They are just as bad. do you see a family walking down the street and imagine the man (or woman) going home and getting stimulated by watching Friday the 13th and be disgusted that he is fantasizing about murdering his neighbor? Actually yeah, I'd be pretty disgusted and scared if a person was fantasizing about that. The difference betwen a porn movie and a horror movie is that the people watching the porn movie are more likely to think of themselves in that position and think about doing what is going on in the porn movie. Most people aren't going to put themselves in the position of a person in a horror movie and hopefully don't think about doing it. seems to me you already have one ... manufacturing reasons to hate men. porn is an easy path for you. If you think I hate men because of my issues with porn, then that's saying alot about how defensive men are in regards to porn. If porn is an easy path to look negatively at men, you need to ask youself why that is. Link to post Share on other sites
Hyperpen12000 Posted July 4, 2008 Share Posted July 4, 2008 You ladies think too much! But that's natural because studies show that the woman's mind runs twice as much as men. I know all kinds of cynical and pessimistic thoughts are racing through those minds when it comes to porn! All I'm hearing is dictatorship all over again. The majority of you sound like you want your man to not look at another woman because YOU think he wants her; You only want him to orgasm if YOUR the one that's doing it... YOU basically want to dictate what he should and shouldn't do with his own body. When it comes down to it, it's just jealousy, selfishness, and control. You just want to control everything sexual in the relationship. Guys learn how to have sex from watching porn! Dad sure isn't sitting him down and telling him how to do it. How many of you are mothers and sisters to males? Do you Mothers tell your teenage sons not to masturbate and not look at pornographic videos and images? Do you barge into his room when you hear him performing the act and demand him to stop? Did you sisters do the same thing with your brothers? In most likelihood, you didn't!.... So now it's a problem when you’re B/F or Husbands do it. Everyone’s libido is different and we all want sex at different times. It's just that some guys release their sexual frustration with pornography. What is so dictatorial is that images or films of Violence and even profanity are not put under the same radar. This is where a woman’s problem with porn looks like jealousy and control. You're jealous because you subjectively feel that he's pleasuring himself by looking at another woman and not you (when you have no idea what he's thinking); Controlling because you want him to view or exercise sex when you feel he should or shouldn't... BTW Someone said that porn doesn't show how to please a woman, and that it just caters to the males perspective of sex. First off, women are suppose to discover themselves! Second, you have to let us know what feels good. A lot of porn shows the man trying to please the woman! There is so much mutual foreplay going on between the man and women before intercourse, that I don't know where you came up with that conclusion! And how do you know that the women aren't being pleasured?? Are you a Anthropologist? So being a woman, you know every woman's face of pleasure individually? Link to post Share on other sites
Jersey Shortie Posted July 4, 2008 Share Posted July 4, 2008 I know all kinds of cynical and pessimistic thoughts are racing through those minds when it comes to porn! That's because porn is cynical, pessimistic and negative in it's own right. All I'm hearing is dictatorship all over again. Errr, no one said that "men must do this end of story". Everyone is sharing their view points. If sharing your view points makes you a dictator...Viva La Napoleon. YOU basically want to dictate what he should and shouldn't do with his own body. No one is saying a man can't cut his hair, can't shave, can't get a tattoo..no one is even saying a man can't/shoudn't masturbate. Alot of men here have made comments that they wouldn't like their SO to post naked pictures of themselves. Does that mean that he wants dictatorship over her body? When it comes down to it, it's just jealousy, selfishness, and control. You just want to control everything sexual in the relationship. I think it has more to do with alot of women feeling like they aren't getting the respect and love out of the relationship they deserve and hopefully their SO things they deserve. Guys learn how to have sex from watching porn! Some guys do! And believe me, as a woman that has had sex with some of these guys, it isn't doing them any favors. Dad sure isn't sitting him down and telling him how to do it. I guess learning by experience is so yesterday when you can just hop on the computer and *really* learn about sex. How many of you are mothers and sisters to males? Do you Mothers tell your teenage sons not to masturbate and not look at pornographic videos and images? Do you barge into his room when you hear him performing the act and demand him to stop? Did you sisters do the same thing with your brothers? In most likelihood, you didn't!.... So now it's a problem when you’re B/F or Husbands do it. Okay, so your point is what? That all the men in our lives perfer porn at least sometimes to the real woman that apparently they think are crap? Everyone’s libido is different and we all want sex at different times. It's just that some guys release their sexual frustration with pornography. If I ate cheese cake anytime I wanted, I would be a fat big. So why is it okay to use porn anytime you get the smallest urge? I am sure my boyfriend wouldn't like it if I ate cheese cake every time I needed a release from my craving. Someone said that porn doesn't show how to please a woman, and that it just caters to the males perspective of sex. First off, women are suppose to discover themselves! Second, you have to let us know what feels good. A lot of porn shows the man trying to please the woman! There is so much mutual foreplay going on between the man and women before intercourse, that I don't know where you came up with that conclusion! Most porn is male domianted geared to male taste. It is rare that the men are truly shown doing things that truly pleasure women. It's more hardcore, aggresive, and a wham bam thank you Mam thing. If you think porn teaches men to have sex, you really need to reconsider that. Porn doesn't teach men anything about what real women are about, I'm sorry. And how do you know that the women aren't being pleasured?? Are you Anthropologist? So being a woman, you know every woman's face of pleasure individually? As a woman, it's pretty easy to tell when another woman is faking it. Link to post Share on other sites
soserious1 Posted July 4, 2008 Share Posted July 4, 2008 JS, I think you make some valid points but I'm also worried about you. If you go sit outside in a busy public place on a nice day and just watch people, look closely when any young marginally attractive woman walks down the street. Every male from 13-80 who see's her is going to look at her. Scanning every female is literally hardwired into men's brains. If you watch even longer you'll see that some men do the automatic scan then look away,others will look again or perhaps try to view her from a different angle.. a smaller percentage will obviously gawk at her, making making comments or whistling. My point is this.. when a 13 yr old gives a gal the once over and an 80 yr old does the same..however briefly or discretely.. imho you're clearly dealing with biology here,hard wiring. I can't fault men for their hardwiring.. since we live in an organized,civil society we can object to gawking,drooling bores who make crude remarks to random women.. but to expect men to feel bad over what is basically a reflex action? I think that's carrying things too far. I can easily understand how having a strong drive to mate with many women while also dealing with a social expectation that he will remain faithful to one woman puts men in a real problem. As to porn, back in the cave days the average guy MIGHT hang out for about 4 yrs,long enough to see a pregnancy thru and the resultant child old enough to walk and have some basic survival skills.. then he was off to newer pastures... we practiced monogamy of a serial type... there's the hard wiring deal again. We don't live in the cave anymore, officially we endorse lifelong monogamy yet in practice many of us we remain serial monogamists, often having many relationships over the course of our life spans.I can totally understand why a guy with a strong drive would consider porn a valid means of handling the problem without endangering his lifelong partner. I don't know the answer.. heck I'm struggling with the fact that I might well live another 30-40 years with a man who finds me too old to arouse him physically. I do know though that expecting men to think like women won't work, putting men on the defensive for biological reflex behaviors that are hard wired into them will not increase compromise or understanding either. Link to post Share on other sites
Hyperpen12000 Posted July 4, 2008 Share Posted July 4, 2008 That's because porn is cynical, pessimistic and negative in it's own right. Well then having sex is too because porn is sex! No one is saying a man can't cut his hair, can't shave, can't get a tattoo..no one is even saying a man can't/shoudn't masturbate. Yeah, and no one is telling a man what he can or can't do with his own eyes either! PLEASE! Alot of men here have made comments that they wouldn't like their SO to post naked pictures of themselves. Does that mean that he wants dictatorship over her body? Of course because that's exposure of your private life. Just like talking about your mate having a problem with porn to complete strangers without their permission. Exposure of your bodies to only one another is sacred.... I know you might say that intimacy is scared with your partner not porn, but you're not exposing your body to the people on the video. They can't see you! Girlfriends/Wives act as if the women in the porn are watching your boyfriend/husband watch them or masturbate! Guys should start walking up to adult stars they've seen in porns and ask,"You remember me? I was watching you last night having sex on my TV, in my bedroom?" I think it has more to do with alot of women feeling like they aren't getting the respect and love out of the relationship they deserve and hopefully their SO things they deserve. Yeah that's only if your SO is putting all of his time & intimacy into the porn and not you. If he can manage the way he watches porn, yet his SO still has a problem with it, it's just jealousy, and control. If you're going to practice no porn, practice no violence, and profanity watching too. Otherwise it's just dictatorship. Some guys do! And believe me, as a woman that has had sex with some of these guys, it isn't doing them any favors. Well I guess they were more focused in the pleasure and not the art or skill of it! I guess learning by experience is so yesterday when you can just hop on the computer and *really* learn about sex. Unless you're a little church going girl who doesn't care about the intimacy part, you ARE going to be a bit disappointed if your SO has no experience. So you're going to teach each other how to have sex!? :lmao::lmao::lmao:!!! They should make a comedy out of that!:lmao: Okay, so your point is what? That all the men in our lives perfer porn at least sometimes to the real woman that apparently they think are crap? I don't know how you came to that conclusion! All I was saying is that it has always been a stimulator when SHE wasn't there or not in the mood (especially when you've been denied continuously). If I ate cheese cake anytime I wanted, I would be a fat big. So why is it okay to use porn anytime you get the smallest urge? I am sure my boyfriend wouldn't like it if I ate cheese cake every time I needed a release from my craving. Men just don't watch porn to "get off" all the time... If that were true, the porn would be on no more then 2 to 5 mins. No man masturbates the entire duration of the video!:lmao::lmao::lmao: I know you've filled that cheese cake craving occasionally. Most porn is male domianted geared to male taste. It is rare that the men are truly shown doing things that truly pleasure women. It's more hardcore, aggresive, and a wham bam thank you Mam thing. If you think porn teaches men to have sex, you really need to reconsider that. Porn doesn't teach men anything about what real women are about, I'm sorry. Neither do real women! Most women don't know what they're doing either! WOW! It's funny how women think they know how to please a man because we are easily aroused! Women think that a man has never had "bad sex". If you ask any man, they will tell you that they have had a least one bad experience, if not more. ATTENTION! Foreplay that men give to women in porn is not something women enjoy! What misleading information porn has given us! This is what is ridiculous! If women were to record themselves having sex (with their mate of course) it would look like male domination! Just deal with it... Whether we all like it or not, visually, men look in control of the sex. We can't help that it looks like that. Sorry! Everything looks different from the outside in. BTW... Sex is not slow motion and extremely passionate like those erotic movies and soap operas make us believe. That's fantasy too. As a woman, it's pretty easy to tell when another woman is faking it. Yeah, and I know when another man has had his greatest orgasm because I'm a man! ..... I understand that you can tell at times but we honestly 100% don't know when a man or woman has had an orgasm or their best orgasm every time. Link to post Share on other sites
Jersey Shortie Posted July 4, 2008 Share Posted July 4, 2008 I can't fault men for their hardwiring.. since we live in an organized,civil society we can object to gawking,drooling bores who make crude remarks to random women.. but to expect men to feel bad over what is basically a reflex action? I think that's carrying things too far. I can easily understand how having a strong drive to mate with many women while also dealing with a social expectation that he will remain faithful to one woman puts men in a real problem. I don't want or expect men to feel bad about glancing at a pretty girl. But there are times when men could exercise more self control. It seems that we justify anything a guy does because he is a "man" and that is how he is "hardwired". Well I think my response to the way men behave in these cases is because I am a "girl" and am "hardwired" in my own way to do so. But no one is justfying my response to the way men act and excusing it based on that. If a man dones't want to remain loyal to woman woman, he doesn't have to. But to get into a relationship and then turn around and say you need vareity is unfair as it goes against what a relationship is suppose to repersent. I can totally understand why a guy with a strong drive would consider porn a valid means of handling the problem without endangering his lifelong partner. Well I don't believe porn doesn't endanger women in general or his lifelong partner. If porn is the only thing that drives him not to cheat, we aren't in a very promising spot are we. I believe most porn does a deservice to women and men actually. I find more porn misgonistic as well. So I don't believe that porn is not endangering emotionally to men or women. I don't know the answer.. heck I'm struggling with the fact that I might well live another 30-40 years with a man who finds me too old to arouse him physically. I do know though that expecting men to think like women won't work, putting men on the defensive for biological reflex behaviors that are hard wired into them will not increase compromise or understanding either. And what about women and their biological reflexes and feelings? All I have heard you comment on is men and how understanding women should be of their impluses. This is usually the argument I hear from men themselves. And when do men or women make excuses for women's reflexes based on biology as well? When are men understanding of women based on biology? You don't have to live with a man that doesn't find you attractive. His lack of sexual function is NOT your fault. He will blame you because that puts the responsiblity off of him from getting older and feeling like less of a man. But you are letting him make you feel like less of a woman. That is your choice and you have trhe power to change that. Do you know who Paula Dean is? That cook that makes really fatty awesome southern food. Well she has a pretty amazing life story. SHe use to be afraid to go outside. Now she has her own cooking show. She was married and once divorced and in her later years found a man that truly loves her and you can tell by teh way she talks about him, that she loves him. You should catch her show because you can tell he loves her too when he is on. Link to post Share on other sites
Hyperpen12000 Posted July 4, 2008 Share Posted July 4, 2008 If porn is the only thing that drives him not to cheat, we aren't in a very promising spot are we. Yes that is true, but just like when we're not getting what we need mental in a relationship for a long period of time, we move on. If a woman is not pleasing her man sexually or has become asexual towards him, yet he still loves her. He may look to porn to let out that deprivation of sex. When a woman is not pleased in a relationship romantically, she withholds sex until she is, which is considered okay. A man is in the wrong when he has little to no restraint. He's considered an animal. When he has too much restraint. His faithfulness or sexuality is under suspicion... Men can't win for losing! BUT women with too much restraint or no restraint are considered normal. Men just have to be perfect! And what about women and their biological reflexes and feelings? All I have heard you comment on is men and how understanding women should be of their impluses. This is usually the argument I hear from men themselves. And when do men or women make excuses for women's reflexes based on biology as well? When are men understanding of women based on biology? All the time! Whether it's PMS to menopause; What ever biological changes women go through, men are sympathetic or crucified for not being. When women say "they're not in the mood" do to certain feminine issues, men are passable and may not watch porn... But sometimes men get the urge to let out that pent up sexual frustration, porn is that outlet. It's more so about watching point A going in and out of point B. We need an image. And even if you give us an image or video of yourself, you'll have to do 20 different scenarios to keep us interested every time. "New" is inherent to keeping a man stimulated. Why do you think he has more than one porn. It's not the woman, it's the sex... A naked guy that we don't know penis is in the film as well, but women forget about that. DO you ever think that he's masturbate to the guys penis? No, you compare yourself to the woman and think he wants her. You have no idea what men are thinking and when he tells you, you don't believe him. He just gave you the key to his male minds and you discard it! You don't have to live with a man that doesn't find you attractive. His lack of sexual function is NOT your fault. He will blame you because that puts the responsiblity off of him from getting older and feeling like less of a man. But you are letting him make you feel like less of a woman. That is your choice and you have trhe power to change that. Do you know who Paula Dean is? That cook that makes really fatty awesome southern food. Well she has a pretty amazing life story. SHe use to be afraid to go outside. Now she has her own cooking show. She was married and once divorced and in her later years found a man that truly loves her and you can tell by teh way she talks about him, that she loves him. You should catch her show because you can tell he loves her too when he is on. GOD knows what he does behind close doors! And when is porn the symbolism of saying, "I don't love my SO?!" Wow! Women are just reading into this too much! Link to post Share on other sites
Hyperpen12000 Posted July 4, 2008 Share Posted July 4, 2008 SOMEONE PLEASE TELL ME THIS! If porn is so degrading and misogynist towards woman, has the sex altered with your SO to the point he's degrading you?????? Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Lucky Posted July 4, 2008 Share Posted July 4, 2008 Do you know who Paula Dean is? That cook that makes really fatty awesome southern food. Well she has a pretty amazing life story. SHe use to be afraid to go outside. Now she has her own cooking show. She was married and once divorced and in her later years found a man that truly loves her and you can tell by teh way she talks about him, that she loves him. You should catch her show because you can tell he loves her too when he is on. When if you found out that even though all of the above is true, her H still occasionally looks at porn ? Would that change your perception of their relationship? Mr. Lucky Link to post Share on other sites
morelaugh Posted July 4, 2008 Share Posted July 4, 2008 JS, I don't know the answer.. heck I'm struggling with the fact that I might well live another 30-40 years with a man who finds me too old to arouse him physically. Men, please correct me, but, as a woman, from my own experience (and experience of people around me) this is not always the case. In fact, I believe most men don’t loose interest in their wife JUST because she got old. What do you think men(those old enough, of course ), am I right here? Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Lucky Posted July 4, 2008 Share Posted July 4, 2008 Men, please correct me, but, as a woman, from my own experience (and experience of people around me) this is not always the case. In fact, I believe most men don’t loose interest in their wife JUST because she got old. What do you think men(those old enough, of course ), am I right here? My wife, in her late 40's, is 3 kids and 40 pounds past the zenith of her beauty. And yet, in 20+ years of marriage, I've never been even remotely tempted to stray. There's lots more to a satisfying sexual relationship than youth and physical appearance. Besides, if it were based on looks alone, my balding, wrinkled 57 year-old self would be in real trouble !!! Mr. Lucky Link to post Share on other sites
morelaugh Posted July 4, 2008 Share Posted July 4, 2008 My wife, in her late 40's, is 3 kids and 40 pounds past the zenith of her beauty. And yet, in 20+ years of marriage, I've never been even remotely tempted to stray. There's lots more to a satisfying sexual relationship than youth and physical appearance. Besides, if it were based on looks alone, my balding, wrinkled 57 year-old self would be in real trouble !!! Mr. Lucky That’s an interesting answer – not quite what I expected. How I read your answer, you basically say you don’t find your wife physically attractive. I understand you’re not tempted to stray, but still – you don’t think your wife is beautiful? Link to post Share on other sites
Jersey Shortie Posted July 5, 2008 Share Posted July 5, 2008 Hyperpen: Yes that is true, but just like when we're not getting what we need mental in a relationship for a long period of time, we move on. If a woman is not pleasing her man sexually or has become asexual towards him, yet he still loves her. He may look to porn to let out that deprivation of sex. So the only reason men turn to porn is when they are getting any sex? I really don't think that is the complete truth. BUT women with too much restraint or no restraint are considered normal. Men just have to be perfect! Women are called four letter names when they have no restraint. And whe we get bogged down with chasing after our man's children, with are bodies altered forever from child birth, he is watching Slutty Cheerleaders 9000000. All the time! Whether it's PMS to menopause; What ever biological changes women go through, men are sympathetic or crucified for not being. Well first, I don't agree with women using PMS as an excuse to treat someone else poorly. And I really don't think men are too sympathetic to women's body changes anyway. With that in mind, you glossed over my point which was that women are told that it's biological for men to want to look at other women...well guess what... it's biological for women to feel threatened. But sometimes men get the urge to let out that pent up sexual frustration, porn is that outlet. It's An outlet that doesn't treat women much better then the sludge on their shoe..that men themselves even think derogatory/negative about while they are masturbating to them, and women that stereotypically are in a limited age group, with a stereotypical bra size..implants..etc etc etc.... "New" is inherent to keeping a man stimulated. Why do you think he has more than one porn. That is exactly one of the reasons that it is hard to trust men and I that I find this issue so disconcerting. That no matter what you do for your man, no matter what you try, it doesn't matter because "new" is always better to him. Hence the insatible desire to seek out new women after new women after new women to get off too. What is the point in even trying? Since the only thing men are really interested in is what is "new" and what they don't have. It's not the woman, it's the sex... A naked guy that we don't know penis is in the film as well, but women forget about that. Come on....it's both. It's the women and the sex. Men are attracted to women...you can't say that it's not the woman in the porn turnign a man on when it has to be as well as the sex she is having. And yes, while there are penises in teh movie too, most porn movies focus on the woman and what is bein gdone to her and what she looks like. DO you ever think that he's masturbate to the guys penis? No, you compare yourself to the woman and think he wants her. You have no idea what men are thinking and when he tells you, you don't believe him. He just gave you the key to his male minds and you discard it If he is masturbating to the guys penis we have a whole set of new problems. Of course women compare themselves to other women! This is natural and biological as well. And when you have super imposed ideals about women that men spend a good time masturbating to, normal woman is going to wonder if she is enough anymore...and the message is she just isn't. And while you think I am discarding the male side of it, I feel that men are discarding the female side of it. GOD knows what he does behind close doors! And when is porn the symbolism of saying, "I don't love my SO?!" Wow! Women are just reading into this too much! Its more like " I love you but damn..I love that 18 year old girls ta-tas...wow look at her go..damn I wish she would do that to me..." When if you found out that even though all of the above is true, her H still occasionally looks at porn ? Would that change your perception of their relationship? Mr. Lucky Yes, it would. I wouldn't have as much faith that he truly loved her or respected her. There's lots more to a satisfying sexual relationship than youth and physical appearance. I feel like if that was really true, then men wouldn't need porn of youth, physically pretty women to combined with their real life relationship. ANd from what it sounds like, men seem to need both to feel happy. Link to post Share on other sites
trubella Posted July 5, 2008 Share Posted July 5, 2008 And when you have super imposed ideals about women that men spend a good time masturbating to, normal woman is going to wonder if she is enough anymore...and the message is she just isn't. And while you think I am discarding the male side of it, I feel that men are discarding the female side of it. . lol -I guess im not normal then, ive never questioned if i was enough or compared myself to the chics in porn. you can have a great sex life with someone and still watch the occasional porno. we both watch sometimes. Link to post Share on other sites
demrea Posted July 5, 2008 Share Posted July 5, 2008 What is the point in even trying? ... this about sums it up ... we agree! i dont think you should bother trying as I pity the man who hooks up with you. your expectation, while in theory sounds like relationship utopia, would require a lobotomy for most men. you are right, no excuses are valid, if the way a man mind works is not acceptable to you, then you should not be in a relationship with a man. your choice. life isnt always fair, clearly this is one unfair aspect that you are entitled to not accept, but must deal with in reality. good luck to you! Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Lucky Posted July 5, 2008 Share Posted July 5, 2008 That’s an interesting answer – not quite what I expected. How I read your answer, you basically say you don’t find your wife physically attractive. I understand you’re not tempted to stray, but still – you don’t think your wife is beautiful? Here is what I said: "My wife, in her late 40's, is 3 kids and 40 pounds past the zenith of her beauty" Where do I say that I don't find her beautiful or physically attractive? She's not the toned hard-body I fell in love with 25 years ago. That's a fact of life, as are the changes in my appearance. The point I was responding to is that those changes haven't affected my attraction to her, sexual or otherwise... Mr. Lucky Link to post Share on other sites
Hyperpen12000 Posted July 5, 2008 Share Posted July 5, 2008 So the only reason men turn to porn is when they are getting any sex? I really don't think that is the complete truth. Okay, I will repost it again... Men just don't watch porn to "get off" all the time... If that were true, the porn would be on no more then 2 to 5 mins. No man masturbates the entire duration of the video!:lmao::lmao::lmao: Women are called four letter names when they have no restraint. And whe we get bogged down with chasing after our man's children, with are bodies altered forever from child birth, he is watching Slutty Cheerleaders 9000000. This is what drives men crazy! After you've had your baby and healed... GO WORK OUT. I've seen dozen of mothers around who've done that. Some women are so complacent! They want men to change their ways and have the preconceived notion that men are obligated to change but woman are suppose to be accepted for who they are. That is so double-standard. Slut, Dirty Girl, Freak; Those are just kinky names for promiscuous and nymphomaniacal women in entertainment. Outside of porn it's literally derogatory comment. Some guys take it too far to degrade women! Those are the men you have to watch out for. But you can't penalize us all. Everything has seen abuse. For example some people who see a martial arts movie enjoy the "butt kicking" but some actually imitate that sense of violence and go out to hurt someone. So do we condemn all or do we condemn those who don't know the difference from reality and fantasy? Well first, I don't agree with women using PMS as an excuse to treat someone else poorly. And I really don't think men are too sympathetic to women's body changes anyway. With that in mind, you glossed over my point which was that women are told that it's biological for men to want to look at other women...well guess what... it's biological for women to feel threatened. Well sense I glossed over your point, let me not this time... It's biological for men to look at women and women to feel threatened. Well it's our physiological responsibility to communication with one another to tell each other how we feel. If your mate glances at other women (who so happens to be dressed provocative) you ask him if he's attracted to them. If he tells you NO, and that he's just looking, you can either trust him or continue to be insecure. So I guess it's biological for women to continue feeling insecure and have a low self-esteem about themselves even when they're mate gives them security. It's biological for women to be intransigent no matter what their SO does to keep her delighted, even if it completely takes away from him delight. No, I seriously don't think that's women but one stressful relationship! An outlet that doesn't treat women much better then the sludge on their shoe..that men themselves even think derogatory/negative about while they are masturbating to them, and women that stereotypically are in a limited age group, with a stereotypical bra size..implants..etc etc etc.... Well that's your personal/subjective opinion. No one is holding these women down to do any of this. There are no pimps involved. They ask them what they feel comfortable doing just like they ask the men. The problem is you fear the fantasy so much, it has become reality in your mind. Everyone in the porn are directed actors in organized scenes and men know that. You and other women have become oblivious to that substantiated logic and chosen your own sense of logic. That is exactly one of the reasons that it is hard to trust men and I that I find this issue so disconcerting. That no matter what you do for your man, no matter what you try, it doesn't matter because "new" is always better to him. Hence the insatible desire to seek out new women after new women after new women to get off too. What is the point in even trying? Since the only thing men are really interested in is what is "new" and what they don't have. You can become innovative yourself for your SO sexual. Half of the time men watch porn for entertainment because we like sex and are not sensitive to watching it. The other half is just a visual for when his SO is too tired or not even around to pleasure him. It's the sex factor not the girl. The "New" part is when he's tired of seen the same two people thrusting. It becomes boring. :lmao:It just seems like when women watch porn the guy in it doesn't even exist. But he exist to us because he's the one doing the thrust. It takes two! You know what.... The focus on the woman is for particular guys. That's where the communicate comes in again with your SO and his views on pornography. Every guy has is idea of what's "New" when he views a new porn. It could be the sex or the women but you have to communicate. You don't know what he's thinking when he's watching the porn. You're not the thought police. It's just pessimism... Come on....it's both. It's the women and the sex. Men are attracted to women...you can't say that it's not the woman in the porn turnign a man on when it has to be as well as the sex she is having. And yes, while there are penises in teh movie too, most porn movies focus on the woman and what is bein gdone to her and what she looks like. Yes, that is true to some extent. But do you know if he's having multiple thoughts; Think of the girl being pleasured and you in her place? Once again are you the thought police? So when the woman gets on top and the guy moans, it still about her being pleasured huh? I think you just look at porn one-side no matter what goes on... If he is masturbating to the guys penis we have a whole set of new problems. Of course women compare themselves to other women! This is natural and biological as well. And when you have super imposed ideals about women that men spend a good time masturbating to, normal woman is going to wonder if she is enough anymore...and the message is she just isn't. And while you think I am discarding the male side of it, I feel that men are discarding the female side of it. Insecurity.... He then tells you and you don't believe him..... Insecurity.... We're not discarding women because we know what it is.... Insecurity..... Its more like " I love you but damn..I love that 18 year old girls ta-tas...wow look at her go..damn I wish she would do that to me..." Just insecurity and pessimistic thinking which men are blamed for even when they tell you it's not the case. We're always responsible for your insecurity and negative thinking not yourself. If your mate watches it occasionally, it shouldn't be a problem...... If he tells you that he just watches it for entertainment because he likes sex, it shouldn't be a problem....... If he tells you that he just watches it to get off occasionally when you're not around and that it's not the women but the act of sex, it shouldn't be a problem......... If he's tried everything to make you secure about him viewing porn and you can't get past it. That's a slap in the face to him and his knowledge to your low self-esteem. Like someone said, no one can make a headstrong person change their opinion about porn no matter how much you make them feel secure. Link to post Share on other sites
Hyperpen12000 Posted July 5, 2008 Share Posted July 5, 2008 All this time I was speaking from two perspectives confusing some of the ladies, having them backfire with sensible resolve. The two perspectives I was integrating where from a single males view on porn and a person in a relationship. Most males who are single that watch porn or masturbate do look at the woman as a desirable entity because they have no one. When in a relationship, that all changes. Most men look at porn and have multiple thoughts. In my opinion, majority of men look at the act of sex, the pleasure girl is receiving and their SO being in that woman’s position simultaneously. At other times, it’s just entertainment not a simulator. Men love sex and if you love something, you don’t mind watching it. It’s not something that is sensitive to you. It’s entertaining. If I love practicing martial arts, I’m going to watch martial art movies. I know the difference between movie martial arts and real martial arts. The problem is when you don’t know the difference between fantasy and reality. In all, who’s to say what he’s thinking! You have to communicate with your SO and trust him when he gives you his reason. Porn is a problem when it’s uncontrollable in your life. When it becomes an addict to the point you’re not spending time with your SO or avoiding sex with them just to watch it. I WILL SAY THIS! A guy is an idiot and addicted to porn when he tells his SO that he watches it just for the women but doesn’t want the women. Women need security and if you tell them that, you blew it!! Link to post Share on other sites
demrea Posted July 5, 2008 Share Posted July 5, 2008 .....If he is masturbating to the guys penis we have a whole set of new problems. .... maybe this is off topic? why would this be a problem? seems you want to dictate what another person does with their own private and personal thoughts? you wont be happy until your man has a lobotomy, someone else said it right, you want to be the thought police too. a very insecure person you are. Link to post Share on other sites
Jersey Shortie Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 This is what drives men crazy! After you've had your baby and healed... GO WORK OUT. I've seen dozen of mothers around who've done that. Some women are so complacent! I like how you avoided my point that a woman can have man's child, changing her own body forever because whether she gains weight or not, alot of women's bodies change after child birth, and the thanks a woman gets for that is a man watching porn of 20 year olds who never had children. As for what you said, so it drives men crazy that women don't have the "self-control" to work out and cater to their easiest hormones. Then I am sure you can understand how it drives women crazy when men don't have the "self-control" to not view porn and cater to their easiet hormones. I am really glad you said that actually. Because I think you can now see that lack of self-control in either sex is unattractive in different ways. It's quite possible if men put the porn down, their woman would be more happy to get back in shape. Knowing the pay off was a man that was into her and not into porn. Slut, Dirty Girl, Freak; Those are just kinky names for promiscuous and nymphomaniacal women in entertainment. Outside of porn it's literally derogatory comment. You're justification is only that, a justification. It makes no sense. "Slut" means "slut". Men are okay with women being treated derogatory. That is a clear and true message. If women watched movies that called men degrogatory names, I think then men would begin to understand how it felt knowing the man you love doesn't mind watching other women treated thus. If your mate glances at other women (who so happens to be dressed provocative) you ask him if he's attracted to them. If he tells you NO, and that he's just looking, you can either trust him or continue to be insecure. Sometimes men are insecure and lie and say "no" when they mean "yes" because they are too insecure to face the issue head on. So I guess it's biological for women to continue feeling insecure and have a low self-esteem about themselves even when they're mate gives them security. It's biological for women to be intransigent no matter what their SO does to keep her delighted, even if it completely takes away from him delight. I'm not clear on the second part of this paragraphy but if women feel insecure it could be for a host of reasons. However, porn plays off of women's inherent insecurites that men buy into. Men play a part in women's insecurities. I think men just refuse to be honest about how they aid in this manner. Well that's your personal/subjective opinion. No one is holding these women down to do any of this. There are no pimps involved. No one is arguing that they are forced to do anything. This still doesn't make my previous comment any less true. The problem is you fear the fantasy so much, it has become reality in your mind. The problem is that men defend fantasy so much, they forget the real woman in their lives and undermind her in contrast to the fantasy. Proving what is more important. Everyone in the porn are directed actors in organized scenes and men know that. You and other women have become oblivious to that substantiated logic and chosen your own sense of logic. Or it's use that has chosen your own sense of logic and have become oblivious to substantiated logic. I actually find this comment from you displays your unwillingness to try to really understand a woman's side of it and just degrade her opinion by saying that it's nothing more then her"own sense of logic". Instead of talking about the topic you've attempted to attack the person's beliefs as inferior to your own. Yes, that is true to some extent. But do you know if he's having multiple thoughts; Think of the girl being pleasured and you in her place? Once again are you the thought police? i would be disheartened to learn that he was thinking of me and a woman in porn interchangably. Insecurity.... He then tells you and you don't believe him..... Insecurity.... We're not discarding women because we know what it is.... Insecurity..... But don't alot of men do alot of the same? Women tell a man and he doesn't believe her...that is also insecurity then. The men who discard women's opinions on porn and say they are just "silly"...insecurity...... If he's tried everything to make you secure about him viewing porn and you can't get past it. That's a slap in the face to him and his knowledge to your low self-esteem. It's a slap in the face to me that he would think that trying everything had to include getting me to feel good and secure about porn and perhaps maybe putting the porn away to be truly committed to our relationship. That is placing a big importance on porn in our relationship over his relationship with me that he was trying that hard to fit porn into the relationship over making his SO feel secure Link to post Share on other sites
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