The Scarlet Letter

[nadiaj2727]

I disagree. I would wear it proudly, like a medal. The fact that people like that diss you is a huge compliment - it shows they think you are not like them, ie you are not smug, narrow-minded or insular; not petty or vindictive or defensive; not hostile or aggressive or cruel. And that, MWC, is a far bigger compliment than any they could pay you by simpering at you.

 

You're a better person than those who seek to put you down. Don't forget that.

 

People who are having affairs can still be smug, narrow-minded and insular...

 

It seems like you're trying to say that if people point out that someone's doing the wrong thing, they're smug. In this context of being on a message board where someone asks for advice and opens themselves up to other people's opinions, I would hardly call the person that responds smug. Instead I would call the ones who say they're so cool to be doing the wrong thing smug. But then again it's all a matter of opinion. I don't think your opinion of yourself should be raised or lowered when someone who you view as pious says something about you that you think is smug. That is their opinion and if you are strong in yours than it should affect your self-worth one way or the other...

[nadiaj2727]

MWC, have you forgiven yourself? Once you do that and believe in "you", all of what people say either here or IRL won't phase you.

 

This is your life and if people try to label you, well, that's their problem. You made a mistake, got hurt and now you've moved on.

 

Mistress I was going to ask you this same question but then I got off on tangents as usual... but that was basically the point of my post. From personal experience, right after I ended the A and for quite awhile later, I was so sensitive and hurt. Affairs are so hurtful and it just totally ripped apart my self esteem which I believe was pretty low to get involved in an A in the first place.

 

So at that time I had so many things thrown at me it felt like -- BS saying OWs (in general) are sluts/ whores made me feel like they were saying it personally about me, some people did say I had a bad character for doing something like that and I would never change, and then the OWs on here gave me a very hard time for saying I had learned my lesson and changed, and for saying that in my own personal opinion, no woman should be an OW. So I felt like I just couldn't win, and I felt crushed, like no one really understood me, not the OWs or most of the former OWs, not the BS, not the women who knew they'd never cheat or be with a cheater, etc. Looking back, there WERE people who understood, the same people who are always here giving great advice like Owl, WWIU, norajane, etc. They were proud of me for finally getting it and making a big change, and it started to show me that I should be proud of myself too! Change is hard to make! And there were BS like BNB and Justice and later serenity who were encouraging once I stopped being an OW too. I've had the best PM conversations from BS who have helped me way more than the OWs here ever did... in general I think that OWs because of the place they're at are quite self-centered and tend to get nasty out of hurt or pain or feeling judged or whatever, whereas many BS on here, especially those who have PMed me, are so incredibly selfless and willing to help even after they were betrayed by someone in a position of OW like me, that it is just incredulous. So there WERE awesome helpful people on here but at first I was just listening to the ones that were mean and spiteful because they are still so hurt.

 

So first I would recommend taking into the account the source. If it is someone recently hurt or never healed from being betrayed, well yeah, they're stuck in a place of feeling angry that anyone would do something that personally affected them so badly. But if you've ONLY been talking with those BS I think you've been talking to the wrong ones. The BS I've talked to on here have been incredibly helpful. So maybe try talking to Serenity, Justice, JustBreathe, HereNow, and of course Owl... you will see that they don't judge you for what you DID, they are loving, forgiving people who do the right thing and support you in doing the same. I'm not on here as much now but reading around I see that NewSunrise is a newcomer who is also a very sweet, smart and helpful BS (I think so, I apologize if I'm classifying her as a BS and she's not). Those are just some examples, there are many more.

 

But another thing I realized is what WWIU was saying- it doesn't matter if BS or OW or regular old folk (online or IRL) blame me for what I did forever or brand me for being an OW etc. It mattered when *I* wasn't okay with myself, when I hadn't forgiven myself. Someone could tell me I was amazing and I wouldn't really *feel* it. Someone could tell me I was crappy (or OWs in general are crappy) and I really really *feel* it. You know why? Because I *felt* crappy. But I finally started getting to a place of happiness-- of realizing how far I'd come and what I'd done and how my future is so bright now. Once I'd started to forgive myself and feel great about myself, those comments don't bother me at all. There are a couple people I've blocked because I feel they are just destructive and unhealthy and reading their posts makes me feel more down (for them, and in thinking about humanity in general!, and in remembering when I was in that selfish crappy place), but otherwise, it's just a random comment or snide remark, oh well, they don't know me, I know me, and I love me, and that's all that matters! When you get there you will feel it, and it's a lovely feeling. Good luck mistress.

[Kasan]

We all have our labels to outgrow--labels that at times we wore proudly like a badge, other labels were powerful enough to bring us to our knees.

 

When you make the decision that you no longer fit your label either by ceasing the behavior or getting rid of the "labelers" in your life you will be free of this destructive assault on the psyche.

 

We are, what we believe we are, and nothing less.

[marlena]

We all have our labels to outgrow--labels that at times we wore proudly like a badge, other labels were powerful enough to bring us to our knees.

 

When you make the decision that you no longer fit your label either by ceasing the behavior or getting rid of the "labelers" in your life you will be free of this destructive assault on the psyche.

 

We are, what we believe we are, and nothing less.

 

This reads like poetry. Beautiful!

[grogster]

We all have our labels to outgrow--labels that at times we wore proudly like a badge, other labels were powerful enough to bring us to our knees.

 

When you make the decision that you no longer fit your label either by ceasing the behavior or getting rid of the "labelers" in your life you will be free of this destructive assault on the psyche.

 

We are, what we believe we are, and nothing less.

 

Well stated, kasan: Words lose their sting when they lose their reality.

[porter218]

MWC, You are just going to have to forgive these judgemental people for their comments. Most of them probably are still suffering from the aftermath of an A and too consumed with pain to see that a lot of OW are being deceived and hurt by these MM just as much. It takes some people a long time to realize that they aren't the only victim in this crime. I always understood my H was to blame for his A, and that his OW was blind to what his reasons were..It wasn't her fault, she just trusted him like I trusted him. I wished her well and good luck with her life. This board will hopefully awaken a lot of BSs and help them see both sides of what happened. Don't worry about what people say, you have learned from your mistake. You have moved on and are making good choices now, that is all that matters.

[silktricks]

We really really need a male equivalent for "slut", nothing I can think of comes close........

 

That's because it's supposed to be normal for guys to b*ng anything that walks, but women are supposed to be virgins forever. :lmao::lmao:

[Trialbyfire]

Try man-whore!

[mistresswchildren]

Wow! A lot of responses! I'm quite surprised and pleased. I have not seen a thread on here go this "smoothly." There have not been attacks from the usual suspects, and there has been some true and good conversation. I really think this is the "healthiest" thread that I have seen. I hesitated to post it at first, but I was getting really frustrated. I needed some input.

 

Now, to answer a few questions. This criticism has been coming from people in the "real" world. It is coming from people that I know quite well, and one of which is a family member. I have owned up to my mistakes. I have taken full responsibility for them. I know that what I did was wrong. I am now trying to make it right, and yet I am still receiving strong criticism. Although you are all right that I need to forgive myself, I know that it will always hurt hearing this criticism from a family member. I will say, however, that the family member in question is a known cheater. He has cheated on all three of his wives. So, I suppose I need to consider my source. It still stings though. I just feel that no matter what I do next, people will always view me as the OW. People here, for the most part, have been highly constructive. They all gave me that little push that I needed to end the A entirely. Don't get me wrong, I was at that point when I came here, but I needed a nudge. I may have gotten stuck in the same patterns without a little encouragement from people that really know. I thank you all for your thoughtful responses.

 

Maybe one day I will truly forgive myself, but sometimes I find that difficult. If I hadn't been involved with a MM, then my children would have the father that they deserve. They wouldn't have this man that doesn't even know if he wants to be in their lives. They would have that father that cared for them more than he did about himself (God willing of course). A lot of guilt follows me around because of the impact that all of this will have on my little ones. Oh, and update, the baby took her first step the other day. Just thought you would all like to know!

[twice_shy]

I agree with this. I think the condoning hurting others makes most people irritate. .

 

Exactly! And did you mean "irate"?

[serial muse]

I will say, however, that the family member in question is a known cheater. He has cheated on all three of his wives. So, I suppose I need to consider my source. It still stings though.

 

That makes me wonder if he's basically just projecting onto you. He probably thinks these things about himself, deep down, but isn't able to process it as honestly with himself. So he uses you as a punching bag, rather than beat himself up. Maybe?

 

Regardless, try not to let him have that power over you. He sounds like he's a broken person.

 

And congrats on your baby's first steps!

[mistresswchildren]

That makes me wonder if he's basically just projecting onto you. He probably thinks these things about himself, deep down, but isn't able to process it as honestly with himself. So he uses you as a punching bag, rather than beat himself up. Maybe?

 

Regardless, try not to let him have that power over you. He sounds like he's a broken person.

 

And congrats on your baby's first steps!

 

Thanks for the congratulations.

 

As far as him projecting, it may be the case. This man used to accuse his wives of cheating because he himself was cheating on them. I suppose it is possible. I'm just not sure. I guess I shouldn't let it bother me, but it does. When you hear these things from a family member, it stings. I mean my grandmother doesn't hold it against me and she is the most conservative person that I know. She tells me all the time that it was just a bad mistake. My life is not over because of ONE (well, I guess TWO), mistakes.

[NoIDidn't]

I figured it was someone IRL because the Scarlet Letter has to be seen in order to be responded to.

 

Your uncle is a known cheater who has no respect for women. And you have presented him, a cheater, with his worse fear - the OW that actually has the baby, or two.

 

I do believe that he is projecting. Maybe he has a child or two out there that he is ignoring and seeing you struggle with yours (struggle as in raising them, not actual suffering) makes him feel guilty and ashamed.

 

But know this. You did not make two mistakes. You made one. The one of getting into and continuing an A with a MM. Your children are associated with the mistake because its how they came to be, but they are not the mistake.

 

Ignore your uncle. Let him see you love and raise the children that the MM has abandoned with love and respect anyway. He may never come around, but I hope he gets to see that even children born into affairs should be loved for what they are - human beings, not mistakes.

[NoIDidn't]

I don't want to speak for her, but I am sure she didn't mean the way you perceived. She love her kids, despite the history behind it all.

 

 

Oh, I am certain that she didn't mean it in that way. Its just that she should NEVER get used to even thinking of it that way.

 

I once heard my mom tell an audience that she "ended up pregnant" and had to "give up on her dreams" and it was concerning me. I was devastated. I was just a young teen.

 

I know what she means now, but I didn't then. As parents we have to be careful of how we refer to our children when they are young and likely to misinterpret things. And in keeping with that, she shouldn't even tell them that being with their father was a mistake. Yes, she should not have done it, but no they are not mistakes.

 

Does that make any sense?

[GPFan]

As far as him projecting, it may be the case. This man used to accuse his wives of cheating because he himself was cheating on them. I suppose it is possible. I'm just not sure. I guess I shouldn't let it bother me, but it does. When you hear these things from a family member, it stings. I mean my grandmother doesn't hold it against me and she is the most conservative person that I know. She tells me all the time that it was just a bad mistake. My life is not over because of ONE (well, I guess TWO), mistakes.

May I ask why you accept criticism from a person you recognise as beneath you in personal growth? It appears your recognition is valid so it may be time to set aside some time to have a come to Jesus meeting with him.

 

Remind him that you love him and always will then proceed to make it clear which comments and behaviour you are willing to accept from him. In other words, set boundaries with this family member. How he reacts is up to him and out of your hands. Hopefully, he will accept your boundaries and you two can begin to enjoy time spent together.

 

 

 

You need to cut toxic people out of your life, unless you absolutely can't, such as your boss and you need the job to put food on the table or your own children (just an example; I am not literally referring to your babies).

I disagree. Establish firm boundaries and, if he can't accept your boundaries, he will most likely remove himself. Be firm, clear and exude strength.

[GPFan]

Oh, I am certain that she didn't mean it in that way. Its just that she should NEVER get used to even thinking of it that way.

 

I once heard my mom tell an audience that she "ended up pregnant" and had to "give up on her dreams" and it was concerning me. I was devastated. I was just a young teen.

 

I know what she means now, but I didn't then. As parents we have to be careful of how we refer to our children when they are young and likely to misinterpret things. And in keeping with that, she shouldn't even tell them that being with their father was a mistake. Yes, she should not have done it, but no they are not mistakes.

 

Does that make any sense?

Yes it does, makes perfect sense.

[GPFan]

What you have suggested would worked out great, in a perfect world.

 

In an imperfect world, aka reality, it will create more friction and causes parties involved more emotional stress and needless confrontations, with the word "needless" being emphasized.

There needn't be friction if he were to react negatively. First, MWC would accept his response for what it is -- his response. She would then, as an adult, manage to minimise time spent in his presence and avoid engaging him until he changes his response.

 

Would it turn out better if she allows him to continue his present behaviour, allows resentment and anger to build until she explodes with vitriol and meanness?

[bentnotbroken]

No child should ever be told that they are a mistake. And since the OP's children are very small there is no need for her to explain anything to them. I am not condoning A or the people who are in them. But OP is turning her life around and I think the kids have nothing to do with how they were conceived. When they are old enough and have experienced the love and security that will allow them to except the truth, should they be told.

[NoIDidn't]

If she truly feel that it was a mistake or bad judgment to get involved at all with their father, there is no point in lying to them, even passively, aka withholding the truth if there is an opportunity or comes a time to disclose. Honesty may not always be the best policy, but, in most cases, including this one, it is. Ofcourse, matters such as this should be discussed at an age appropriate time.

 

Do you think that it would be better for them to find out from someone else how they were conceived and thinking that it's all good and okay, because their mother never told them it is not or for them to find out it's wrong, but their mother never owning up to it being wrong?

 

I was trying to choose my words carefully. I don't think she should lie, but I don't think that she should tell them in a way that infers regret that they exist because of something she realizes now she shouldn't have done.

 

Of course, she should tell them, one day. But definitely not when she is feeling shamed.

 

Unfortunately, this uncle seems to be primed to tell them now when they will understand it the least and be damaged by it the most.

[Untouchable_Fire]

Just because it happened once, does not mean that it will EVER happen again. I am no longer the OW. For those of you OW out there that are still in your relationships, I know that you all have feelings. I have been where you are, and you are HUMAN BEINGS.

 

We as people are defined by the actions we take.

 

If I play football, then I am defined as such. If I believe in a certain church, then I am defined based on that.

 

So, as a HUMAN BEING, accept who you are and what you have done. Seek new things to define yourself by.

 

Know then, that we are our past! Only direction and time can make the changes you wish for. So, if you don't like being labeled as an OW, change the direction of you life, and with time that label will be replaced by something new!

[pelicanpreacher]

I was thinking of your uncle and his attitude toward you and thought of how Lakesidedream's story changed his perspective. I imagine at one time your uncle may have been a decent easygoing fellow but was cheated on in a relationship that left him insecure within himself and deeply scarred. His heart was hardened and his convictions transformed so instead of living by the code "do unto others as you would have them do unto you", he adopted the code "do unto others before they do unto you"! He may have proceeded into every relationship and marriage thereafter convinced he'd be betrayed so took the flawed pre-emptive strategy of accusing his SOs of cheating then cheating against them to beat them to the punch of betrayal.

 

I'm wondering if you talked to him alone about what happened to him way back in the day and explained to him your outlook today on everything that has happened to you then maybe he'll better empathize with your feelings and perhaps become your supporter instead of your tormentor.

[grogster]

We as people are defined by the actions we take.

 

If I play football, then I am defined as such. If I believe in a certain church, then I am defined based on that.

 

So, as a HUMAN BEING, accept who you are and what you have done. Seek new things to define yourself by.

 

Know then, that we are our past! Only direction and time can make the changes you wish for. So, if you don't like being labeled as an OW, change the direction of you life, and with time that label will be replaced by something new!

 

 

I absolutely agree. As a former OM, I've resolved to never again become involved--whether physically or emotionally--with a woman in any sort of committed relationship.

 

As a result, I feel unburdened. The passage of time helps, too. "Cheater" no longer defines me. For that, I am grateful.

[mistresswchildren]

Somehow you all assumed that this family member was my uncle, but it sadly is worse than that. He is my father. He was never cheated on. My mother was too sick to cheat on him during their marriage. My first step mother was at his side all the time. My last step mother (who he cheated with on my first step-mother) cheated on him only after she found out about a three way he had with two other women. I hope that explains a few things.

 

As far as my children are concerned, they are not mistakes. I made a mistake in getting involved with their father, yes. The thing is I had a choice. Not many people may like the idea, but I didn't HAVE to give birth to these children. That is a choice that I made. That is a choice that I will never regret. My children are not a mistake, nor will I ever allow them to feel that way. When they are old enough to understand, I will tell them more about the situation. As for right now, they don't seem to miss him, and they get the love that they need from me and various family members (including my father which is why I don't cut him out entirely). They are loved. They know they are loved. When my two year old curls up in my lap and looks up at me and out of the blue says, "I love you, Mommy," then I know that he knows what love is. I don't even have to say it first. He has been loved enough to know what love is, and that I have to take pride in.

 

The truth will come out. I will tell them. They have a half-brother after all. My daughter and their son are two days apart. One day, he may come knocking at the door asking to meet his siblings, and I don't want to have to explain it far too late. Truly, honesty is the best policy. It is easier than coming up with lie after lie (even if it is meant to be a white lie). Also, what kind of example would that set for them. Their father is already a pathological liar. If it is not genetic, then it is nurture over nature. I will not lie to them for that reason. I will not lower myself to their father's level. He made his choices, and he has not made it right for ANYONE (his wife, his children with me, his son with her, or me). I refuse to be the same type of garbage. I refuse to debase myself to his level.

[nadiaj2727]

I absolutely agree. As a former OM, I've resolved to never again become involved--whether physically or emotionally--with a woman in any sort of committed relationship.

 

As a result, I feel unburdened. The passage of time helps, too. "Cheater" no longer defines me. For that, I am grateful.

 

This is an inspiring post, I'm glad you were able to move on from the "cheater" label by your own strength grogster. I feel the same way but I don't have that passage of time yet and I am happy to read that it gets better with time, thanks for the hope.

[grogster]

This is an inspiring post, I'm glad you were able to move on from the "cheater" label by your own strength grogster. I feel the same way but I don't have that passage of time yet and I am happy to read that it gets better with time, thanks for the hope.

 

You're most welcome, nadia. As time passes, the weight will lift and you'll regain a lightness of being.

 

Affairs weigh heavily on the mind, body and soul.