Prenup! At what point do you reveal prenuptial interest?

[trust]

I am one of those chomping at the bit, and I have no issue with a prenup. In fact my b/f (who I concede is unlikely to ever propose, so no clue how much longer we'll be together) has not income, has been living off his savings while I make mid 6 figures.

 

However he has a son and is likely to reap the rewards of the business he has been building, so I have suggested that if and when he ever gets off the pot - we will need a prenup to protect his son.

 

Yup call me an idiot - but I am perfectly capable of earning my own living tyvm - I don't need anyone else's.

 

Thanks for taking time to respond. Sorry to hear things are not going as you would have liked. But be careful what you wish for. There may be good reason it hasn't happened yet...with him at least.

 

Yay for you that you are doing well financially. I can appreciate the hard work that goes into a successful business.

 

I knew it wouldn't be long before a female posted who sounds like she is a little miffed at thinking the prenup is because "she can't earn her own living." It's not about that at all. Although it has a stigma that sends that message. I'm pro-prenup because I'm anti-cashout. It just so happens I'm male. And it's a fact that divorce law favors women. This fact is often taken advantage of. It was REALLY taken advantage in my case and we didn't even have any kids together. Guys don't have to accept the unfair laws...unless they do by default (no prenup). I'm just advocating that guys cover their bases because of the law (I'm talking about the USA here...and specifically but not exclusively the "no fault" states.)

 

So you are a woman in favor of a prenup to protect what sounds like the weight of assets (currently) in your favor at the pre-marriage stage. Ok.

 

How did you break it [prenup] to your boyfriend? How do you think he feels about it?

[curiousnycgirl]

I'm pro-prenup because I'm anti-cashout. It just so happens I'm male. And it's a fact that divorce law favors women. This fact is often taken advantage of. It was REALLY taken advantage in my case and we didn't even have any kids together. Guys don't have to accept the unfair laws...unless they do by default (no prenup). I'm just advocating that guys cover their bases because of the law (I'm talking about the USA here...and specifically but not exclusively the "no fault" states.)

 

So you are a woman in favor of a prenup to protect what sounds like the weight of assets (currently) in your favor at the pre-marriage stage. Ok.

 

How did you break it [prenup] to your boyfriend? How do you think he feels about it?

 

My experiences may be different, but in my opinion the laws favor the partner with fewer assets. My cousin who was only earning a fraction of her husband's salary but has significantly greater assets had to buy her husband out of the marriage.

 

You also misread my original post. I suggested a prenup to protect his son - not my assets. Frankly I come from a very wealthy family, and have spent my life rejecting all they represent - so money doesn't really matter for me, other than the fact that it supports my habits (ie my horse, cat, dog, house, etc).

 

Should my b/f and I actually get married (hah fat freaking chance), and his company not take off and should the marriage end, I would be perfectly happy ensuring he walks away acceptably comfortable.

 

However his assets are protected (and his wishes for their disposition known) for his son and granddaughter should anything happen either a divorce, or G-d forbid his death.

 

Does that make sense?

[sb129]

I know this is a tough topic for you ladies to talk about with your men. That's why I'm trying to get it all out of the way now so I can just say, "hey, read this, get an attorney or waive your right to one, and sign."

 

So sb129, when is a good time to bring it up? And how?

 

It depends on the lady. I can honestly say if someone felt that strongly about it, and had been through the wringer like you had, I wouldn't be at all surprised if it came up relatively early in the R, and probably as a result of talking about how you ended up divorced.

That wouldn't be a problem for me.

More and more Rs these days are between people who have had previous marriages.

 

I'd hate to do what you are doing now and actually talk to the person I was going to marry about all of the details. Yeah, that is a romance killer.

Whats wrong with talking about it the way we are?

As for romance killer- my fiance and I talked about it last night, and it didn't kill the romance. When we get back to NZ, we plan to sit down and talk to my family lawyer/ accountant etc to work out the best way of arranging our finances, and I plan to discuss the inheritance thing with my dad.

 

Have a good lawyer write it with you and make her sign it before she has a ring. Any man that doesn't get a pre-nup these days is a fool because women are known to change their feelings at the drop of a dime and they have the courts on their side so to go into marriage without protection is just idiotic.

 

I was wondering when your little chime would ring Woggle!

 

For the record, and I have told you this before, there were a couple of landmark cases here in the UK in the last few years where the wife was the higher earner, and the H managed to get a large divorce settlement out of her.

 

So its not unheard of for the law to be in the mans favour.

[trust]

My experiences may be different, but in my opinion the laws favor the partner with fewer assets. My cousin who was only earning a fraction of her husband's salary but has significantly greater assets had to buy her husband out of the marriage.

 

You also misread my original post. I suggested a prenup to protect his son - not my assets. Frankly I come from a very wealthy family, and have spent my life rejecting all they represent - so money doesn't really matter for me, other than the fact that it supports my habits (ie my horse, cat, dog, house, etc).

 

Should my b/f and I actually get married (hah fat freaking chance), and his company not take off and should the marriage end, I would be perfectly happy ensuring he walks away acceptably comfortable.

 

However his assets are protected (and his wishes for their disposition known) for his son and granddaughter should anything happen either a divorce, or G-d forbid his death.

 

Does that make sense?

 

I thought you were responding because you had advice on at when to talk about a prenup. Of course I'm leading with this question but I'm sure I'll get the truth out of everyone who responds...especially since this is all anonymous.

 

I understood the part about the prenup for the son but I thought you had one as well (between you and the boyfriend) or were at least contemplating...but just hadn't elaborated yet. I'm with you now.

 

Sooo.....are you going to do a prenup with your boyfriend? It sounds like I already know what you are going to say about the idea...since you already "make your own money" you would probably have no hesitation on doing one.

 

So based on the little you know about me (see Original Post), what would be your advice?

[hotgurl]

as far as the parents they don't have to know anything. My finances are mine and not of my parents business. My mom is just nosey.

 

As to how to bring it up. I think is should kinds flow. I mean if the girl knows about your history and you are getting serious there is no reason not to bring it up.

 

Just slip it in when you are having a general convo about relationships a marriage.

 

I mean ideally by the time you are thinking of getting married you know a lot of the person and have a hanadle of how they might react.

[trust]

It depends on the lady. I can honestly say if someone felt that strongly about it, and had been through the wringer like you had, I wouldn't be at all surprised if it came up relatively early in the R, and probably as a result of talking about how you ended up divorced.

That wouldn't be a problem for me.

More and more Rs these days are between people who have had previous marriages.

 

 

Whats wrong with talking about it the way we are?

As for romance killer- my fiance and I talked about it last night, and it didn't kill the romance. When we get back to NZ, we plan to sit down and talk to my family lawyer/ accountant etc to work out the best way of arranging our finances, and I plan to discuss the inheritance thing with my dad.

 

 

 

I was wondering when your little chime would ring Woggle!

 

For the record, and I have told you this before, there were a couple of landmark cases here in the UK in the last few years where the wife was the higher earner, and the H managed to get a large divorce settlement out of her.

 

So its not unheard of for the law to be in the mans favour.

 

*You* said "Pre-nups are a bit of a romance killer..." I was just echoing that sentiment. But that's great to know that it's not a romance killer for you. This is exactly what I'm trying to uncover. It sounds like it may not be a romance killer for *you* because it sounds like you have a bit of security coming your way regardless of what happens with him. Many girls aren't so lucky. So they feel "left out in the cold" when they have nothing and are now approached by someone they "love" with a pre-nup. It's harder to convince girls in that group. See what I'm saying?

 

@Woggle: Nice to meet you. More advice would be appreciated. Do you have a pre-nup? If so, how did you approach her with it and when?

 

When I speak of the law, I'm referring to the USA (and both "fault" and "no fault" States). I will not be moving out of the US.

 

LOL! A couple of landmark cases? I can't really speak for the UK since I don't live there... And we're not talking about some exceptions...we're talking about the *vast majority*. Hey, have you heard of this guy named Paul McCartney? And it's a fact that the wife is usually *not* the higher earner..so again we are not talking about the small percentage of the population. We're talking about the *vast majority*.

[Woggle]

There are a few exceptions but for the most part the courts are still biased in favor of women and women are much less reliable when it comes to keeping true to their commitment so it makes more sense for a man to protect himself.

[Got it]

Well as a woman, any future marriages there will be a prenup. My family has made and continues to make money and we are all under the guidance that any marriages will require prenups.

 

I am fine with that even before the success. My belief, you wouldn't go into business with someone with out a contract why go into marriage with a similar game plan.

 

But it isn't something I would necc discuss right away though I have no problem discussing it. Nor would I want things to be unfair, I just don't want to get taken for everything b/c I believe love would conquer all.

[sb129]

*You* said "Pre-nups are a bit of a romance killer..." I was just echoing that sentiment. But that's great to know that it's not a romance killer for you. This is exactly what I'm trying to uncover. It sounds like it may not be a romance killer for *you* because it sounds like you have a bit of security coming your way regardless of what happens with him. Many girls aren't so lucky. So they feel "left out in the cold" when they have nothing and are now approached by someone they "love" with a pre-nup. It's harder to convince girls in that group. See what I'm saying?

 

@Woggle: Nice to meet you. More advice would be appreciated. Do you have a pre-nup? If so, how did you approach her with it and when?

 

 

Romance killer- I was kinda joking. If approached in the right way, a prenup doesn;t have to be a romance killer.

 

Yes, I do see what you are saying. i am not one of those women, financial independence is something I have worked very hard towards, and I am proud to say I have been financially independent my whole adult life. Not about to change that just because of a wedding ring.

 

The girls you are talking about are not the kind of girls I hang out with, so I don't really know anyone like that.

 

Warning: while he is very sweet and kinda cute, Woggle has a slightly misogynistic view of women, hence his prenup. You'll get to know that if you stick around.

[Woggle]

I know I can sound misogynistic at times but there is a reason why there isn't even a term called walkaway husband. Women are much more likely to wake up one day, decide they are not happy and want out and they will be mighty pissed because they resent you for not being their fantasy man. Some men are lucky enough to marry a woman who is not like this but many aren't and they need to protect themselves.

[trust]

I know I can sound misogynistic at times but there is a reason why there isn't even a term called walkaway husband. Women are much more likely to wake up one day, decide they are not happy and want out and they will be mighty pissed because they resent you for not being their fantasy man. Some men are lucky enough to marry a woman who is not like this but many aren't and they need to protect themselves.

 

Here here! Woggle, we'll get along just fine!

 

@sb129: The girls I'm talking about aren't like the ones you hang out with? So all the girls you hang out with have a greater income and/or greater asset net worth than most guys you know? Where do you live? Beverlyhills or Vegas? Just curious, where did the majority of them get their financial wealth?

[trust]

Well as a woman, any future marriages there will be a prenup. My family has made and continues to make money and we are all under the guidance that any marriages will require prenups.

 

I am fine with that even before the success. My belief, you wouldn't go into business with someone with out a contract why go into marriage with a similar game plan.

 

But it isn't something I would necc discuss right away though I have no problem discussing it. Nor would I want things to be unfair, I just don't want to get taken for everything b/c I believe love would conquer all.

 

Ok. Good information. Future marriages? So one failed marriage on the books?

 

Ahh...family with money. Sounds like you've adopted some "business thinking" from your parents. That makes sense. I'm trying to piece together why you think the way you think.

 

I'm just surprised I haven't been hit with the "trust card" yet on this forum. For many women, that's the first thing that comes out of their mouths. In actuality, prenups have little, if nothing, to do with trust.

 

To that I say...ok...cancel the insurance on your BMW. It's ok. Really. Your trust, love, and faith in the other drivers will get you through.

[trust]

Oh, and Woggle, have you seen this lecture before (link below)? It's one of the funniest displays of truth I've ever seen. Something you just mentioned is in there.

 

If you are a woman, I insist that you NOT click on the link below. It's for adult men only.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6OaRcsfnY4

[Speckles]

Several years ago when I was 22 y/o my boyfriend at the time (he was 27) mentioned that he'd have a prenup in place before getting married. I had never spent much time thinking about marriage before but it did not feel right to me when I heard that. I found out at that moment that I was not okay with prenups after getting into a long debate with him about it. After dating him for nearly a year, I started to see him differently in a negative way. We broke up within a month of that conversation because I just had lost complete interest in him because had killed my ideal of love. Everlasting love is synonymous with marriage to me and so it leads that he was not someone that I could ever marry and wasn't going to waste further time with him. We still remain friends today and I am pulling for him to find a girl that he can share his life and be happy with. I have no ill will towards him. We just had a difference of opinion.

 

Today, I am 31 and I have not changed my mind in not wanting to sign anything that presupposes the failure of my marriage. When my current boyfriend who has been divorced twice without a prenup told me that he was crazy about me and wanted me to move in with him, I first debated the cohabitation issue with him where he reassured me that he would not ask me to if he didn't think that we were moving in the marriage direction. That was maybe the first time I heard the word 'marriage' from him as it relates to us and I quickly let him know that he is entitled to have a prenup drafted if he ever wants to get married again, but for me having one would be a dealbreaker. I don't care if I win the lotto tomorrow and we got married the day after that. My marriage will be absent of a prenup even if I were the one with more to lose.

 

I explained to him that if he didn't think that we could stay together for the rest of our lives then he should find someone that he does feel that way about. I have never been married, but when I do, it will be forEVER.

 

Call me stupid or naive (never been married but been in several LTR's although I did get burnt in a couple). True love is the holy grail. I believe it exists and I am setting out to find it.

[sb129]

@sb129: The girls I'm talking about aren't like the ones you hang out with? So all the girls you hang out with have a greater income and/or greater asset net worth than most guys you know? Where do you live? Beverlyhills or Vegas? Just curious, where did the majority of them get their financial wealth?

 

Most of my friends are like me- not "wealthy" in the sense that you mean regarding multiple assets and large bank balances, but we are all well educated and in well paying jobs (law, banking, healthcare) that have good, consistent long term financial potential.

 

Out of my close circle of friends, most of the women actually earn more than their husbands/ partners. I earn more than my fiance at the moment- I am a dentist, he is a teacher. We are never going to be loaded, but we should be comfortable enough to have the lifestyle we want.

[Got it]

Ok. Good information. Future marriages? So one failed marriage on the books?

 

Ahh...family with money. Sounds like you've adopted some "business thinking" from your parents. That makes sense. I'm trying to piece together why you think the way you think.

 

I'm just surprised I haven't been hit with the "trust card" yet on this forum. For many women, that's the first thing that comes out of their mouths. In actuality, prenups have little, if nothing, to do with trust.

 

To that I say...ok...cancel the insurance on your BMW. It's ok. Really. Your trust, love, and faith in the other drivers will get you through.

 

Or more than one future marriage that might happen. Shoot I didn't have the healthiest childhood, have to be realistic! lol

 

And my parents are divorced and the money is fairly new though it is being tied into a venture with my father and my siblings.

 

But myself, I make over 6 figures and am self sufficient. I have certain assets that I will come into the marriage with that I don't feel the other party is entitled to. Let's say I date some guy who has a boat. We get married use the boat, things are good but things hit the rocks and we decide to divorce. The boat was his property when he came into the marriage, we "shared" it but it's his to take out of it. The only time that I think things should be split is if potentially bought while married and/or needs to be liquidated/split b/c of children. Though, I also think that just b/c one is the breadwinner doesn't give them free rein on all assets if a joint decision was made for one person to stay home. Though I also don't feel that one is responsible to take care of their spouse ad nausem after the divorce. Anyway it something each party needs to talk out and come to an agreement on so there

 

Why I think the way I think? Hmm, well I am not one to think flowers, romance, and a knight in shining armor is the way I want my life. I do not ever want to be dependent on someone else and am more than happy to share myself with someone else that isn't needed by me or needs me but we want each other. An equal relationship.

 

I am a type A personality, who is a great career that should only get better who is also a bit of a control freak. Out of respect for my significant other I want to have as little surprises happen as possible

[Got it]

Oh and the trust comment, that is just ridiculous! Shoot I trust that the relationship will last but I am not stupid enough not to prepare myself for the worst case scenario.

 

Maybe you need to find more career minded women, executives, that might be more like you in your thinking.

[toughchoices]

Lots of good thoughts about prenups here. I just wanted to add about divorce settlements the old 50/50 splits and the equitable distribution states. From what I have read there are only a handful of the 50/50 states out there (10 or so I think). The rest like mine seem to have an equitable distribution based on who contributed what. It also appears in my state that assets from before marriage (and debts) stay with the person and the same with inheritance and trust funds. I am not a lawyer and have not gone through a divorce but as you can tell have done some research on that part. Otherwise, why would I be on this forum .

[Untouchable_Fire]

I explained to him that if he didn't think that we could stay together for the rest of our lives then he should find someone that he does feel that way about. I have never been married, but when I do, it will be forEVER.

Call me stupid or naive (never been married but been in several LTR's although I did get burnt in a couple). True love is the holy grail. I believe it exists and I am setting out to find it.

 

I think you have that backwards, because it's two individuals who make a marriage... not just one. Therefore it takes two to make it work, but only one to make it fail.

 

So, you see, if I ask for a prenup... that doesn't mean that I don't think the marriage will succeed. In fact it has nothing to do with me or how much effort I put into making the marriage work. Instead, it is about you and asking you to enter into marriage on good faith. Which you are obviously unwilling to do.

 

It seems to me that if a woman really loved me... she would sign a prenup and put the money and assets out of the picture. If she doesn't... it shows that she has no trust in me, and that her interest in me is more about what I can provide than who I am.

[sb129]

It seems to me that if a woman really loved me... she would sign a prenup and put the money and assets out of the picture. If she doesn't... it shows that she has no trust in me, and that her interest in me is more about what I can provide than who I am.

 

This is the flip side of the coin, and I am inclined to agree more with this one.

 

True love is all very well and good, but in this day and age you have to be pragmatic about finances and assets.

Its not like the days when women didn't work, and stayed at home to bring up the family and run the household, therefore allowing the mans career to flourish. (when it was the social norm I mean)

In those situations, I agree with the woman getting a payout of sorts (within reason) in the event of a divorce if the couple had been married a long time.

 

My fiance and I aren't having a prenup- but if he really wanted one, I would sign it rather than lose him. Its about having HIM, not his money.

That is true love IMO.

 

As long as you are together, you get to enjoy the best of both worlds which is fair enough.

 

I would also consider one of my own, in fact if (thank god I didn't) I had even considered marrying my ex, I would have made him sign one without question.

[Speckles]

So, you see, if I ask for a prenup... that doesn't mean that I don't think the marriage will succeed. In fact it has nothing to do with me or how much effort I put into making the marriage work. Instead, it is about you and asking you to enter into marriage on good faith. Which you are obviously unwilling to do.

 

 

In my point of view, 'good faith' does not even allow for the possibility of a divorce occuring. When I am thinking about marriage I don't allow the thought of divorce to enter that same picture. It is not even an option for me. I don't want to think about the 'what ifs'. If I hear a 'what if we split' then I may just ask the man to see what its like that very moment and leave. Actually no, that would be harsh and impulsive, but I would be dissappointed that he could even picture a life without me.

 

If I ever were to compromise my ideals and sign one, I almost think that it would make it all too easy for us to call it quits because the consequences for dissolving our vows would be much less severe. (Hollywood knows this). A prenup protects an individual. It does not protect the marriage. I wouldn't proclaim that it harms a marriage, but it certainly does not protect it.

 

Love is a universal concept and marriage may be as well. But prenups only exist where lawyers do.

 

I don't begrudge anyone for their difference of opinion. I hope that everyone finds a partner who sees eye to eye with them on such an important matter and go off and live happily ever after without the subject ever having to come up. That's what true love is -- its finding that very special someone who is right for you and living happily ever after with him/her.

[trust]

Several years ago when I was 22 y/o my boyfriend at the time (he was 27) mentioned that he'd have a prenup in place before getting married. I had never spent much time thinking about marriage before but it did not feel right to me when I heard that. I found out at that moment that I was not okay with prenups after getting into a long debate with him about it. After dating him for nearly a year, I started to see him differently in a negative way. We broke up within a month of that conversation because I just had lost complete interest in him because had killed my ideal of love. Everlasting love is synonymous with marriage to me and so it leads that he was not someone that I could ever marry and wasn't going to waste further time with him. We still remain friends today and I am pulling for him to find a girl that he can share his life and be happy with. I have no ill will towards him. We just had a difference of opinion.

 

Today, I am 31 and I have not changed my mind in not wanting to sign anything that presupposes the failure of my marriage. When my current boyfriend who has been divorced twice without a prenup told me that he was crazy about me and wanted me to move in with him, I first debated the cohabitation issue with him where he reassured me that he would not ask me to if he didn't think that we were moving in the marriage direction. That was maybe the first time I heard the word 'marriage' from him as it relates to us and I quickly let him know that he is entitled to have a prenup drafted if he ever wants to get married again, but for me having one would be a dealbreaker. I don't care if I win the lotto tomorrow and we got married the day after that. My marriage will be absent of a prenup even if I were the one with more to lose.

 

I explained to him that if he didn't think that we could stay together for the rest of our lives then he should find someone that he does feel that way about. I have never been married, but when I do, it will be forEVER.

 

Call me stupid or naive (never been married but been in several LTR's although I did get burnt in a couple). True love is the holy grail. I believe it exists and I am setting out to find it.

 

Can you tell me why it didn't feel right when you heard he wanted a prenup? What were you feeling?

 

Can you describe your ideal of love? I would appreciate that very much.

 

Can you tell me how you came to the conclusion that a prenup predisposes a marriage for failure?

 

My marriage will be absent of a prenup even if I were the one with more to lose.

 

I said the same thing. It's amazing what the experience of divorce will do to that stance when it actually happens to you. Although I hope not, you may very well find that your true love can and may turn on you one day. After that day, and if you did in fact have everything to lose while he did nothing to earn the fortune that you may amass, you WILL change your opinion. With all respect, I call your stance an "inexperienced point of view." You haven't experienced both sides yet. So your point of view is kinda one sided.

 

I have never been married, but when I do, it will be forEVER.

LOL! I said the same thing!!! You're so cute. You sound like me nine years ago. You will only be married as long as the person who cares the least about your marriage. That may not make sense to you now, and I hope it never will.

 

Can you describe true love? I'm really interested. It's not everyday that I get a chance to hear about this kind of stuff from a girl. They usually clam up when I ask them about this in person.

[trust]

Most of my friends are like me- not "wealthy" in the sense that you mean regarding multiple assets and large bank balances, but we are all well educated and in well paying jobs (law, banking, healthcare) that have good, consistent long term financial potential.

 

Out of my close circle of friends, most of the women actually earn more than their husbands/ partners. I earn more than my fiance at the moment- I am a dentist, he is a teacher. We are never going to be loaded, but we should be comfortable enough to have the lifestyle we want.

 

I guess I should be clear on some numbers. "Rich" is a relative term. Wealth is pretty much waaaaaay out of what I am likely to achieve. I shoot for billionaire status and hope to fall short at multi-millionaire status. This is my financial goal. Side note for all the "assumers": I do not determine my self worth by my network. I have many goals. One of my goals is financial independence. This I define as having money work for me (not dollars for hours; like a 9 to 5 job) while maintaining a quality of living that I am comfortable with. To sum that up: multimillionaire. I am able to retire at this moment, but I would not be living at the level that I feel I would like to live until my death.

 

Sooooo....here I am. Divorced and trying to put this prenup stuff behind me. I just don't want to have to worry about the possibility of being wiped out again in the event of a divorce. I strictly see it as an insurance policy. There is *no* girl in my life right now. So I don't see it as being personal. At least not until I ask this future girl, should there be one, to sign.

 

What I am piecing together from what you have told me is this (help me think this out if you spot an issue that doesn't sound quite right): Maybe it would be be ideal for me to find some girl who is at the level of financial success as I? But when I think about that, I've just dropped the percentage of possible candidates by a HUGE factor. I've sorted out what's important to me. And money is definitely not at the top. But that's not to say that a prenup is not in order. Divorces are just flat out unfair (no fault states, and given your spouse gets downright evil).

 

I'm starting to believe that finding a compatible girl is almost an impossibility. I'm not in fear of not finding a marriage partner. LORD KNOWS as I visit the divorce forum on this site I am reminded that marriage is a TREMENDOUS amount of work....I just don't know if I can find someone who also knows that it will be WORK. Most girls have this "rainbows and butterflies" view of marriage (if they've never been married before). It's sweet and all but.... I guess it's easier for the one who is not as emotionally developed and experienced. It really helps when at least one is the wiser. But then the "burden" is on that person to make all the right things happen. I really don't think that a marriage will survive without constant work. I would even advise (even for myself) that I/we visit an MC at the very start of marriage. I think doing the work after there is a problem, is kinda late. Sorry, lots of random thoughts here. I guess the bottom line is I can't control what the other person does, but I can control what happens to my nest egg. I've given away half once. Can't do it again.

 

I said all that just to let you know where I'm coming from.

 

Thank you for all of the great information. Oh and sb129, don't forget to answer my questions from above.

[trust]

Or more than one future marriage that might happen. Shoot I didn't have the healthiest childhood, have to be realistic! lol

Oh. Ok. Wow. So you anticipate that it *might* happen. I'm glad you can at least *fathom* the possibility. It's just naive to think nothing will ever happen to you. Good for you. But you say you think that way because of an unhealthy childhood? Interesting.....

 

And my parents are divorced and the money is fairly new though it is being tied into a venture with my father and my siblings.

As I said in a previous post, it's usually the experience that changes one's mind on divorce. I see that is the case here as well.

 

But myself, I make over 6 figures and am self sufficient. I have certain assets that I will come into the marriage with that I don't feel the other party is entitled to. Let's say I date some guy who has a boat. We get married use the boat, things are good but things hit the rocks and we decide to divorce. The boat was his property when he came into the marriage, we "shared" it but it's his to take out of it. The only time that I think things should be split is if potentially bought while married and/or needs to be liquidated/split b/c of children. Though, I also think that just b/c one is the breadwinner doesn't give them free rein on all assets if a joint decision was made for one person to stay home. Though I also don't feel that one is responsible to take care of their spouse ad nausem after the divorce. Anyway it something each party needs to talk out and come to an agreement on so there

Yes. Ok. About the boat....for the non-assets (like the boat) things get a bit tricky. First of all, it's depreciating. You may file joint on your taxes. If you do you are both taking a depreciation. Not only on that liability but others. When the finances are intermingled, things get very complicated when you own a lot of stuff. At the end of the day, you will be pissed when all of those unforeseen details start adding up.

 

As for the breadwinner not getting free rein....hmmmmm.....that's a really tough one there... I don't have any answers...I suppose you would have to setup a system that sounds fair. I'd be open to hear any systems folks have set up in their marriage. But since I am dead set on the prenup, it only allows for ABSOLUTE separate accounts. EVERYTHING that has monetary value is separate.

 

For those who are interested, I had a system that worked well for me and my ex-wife(non prenup marriage). We had what was called a 2-vote rule. If the to-be purchased item was above $50 dollars, we had to consult the other for a second vote in order to continue with the purchase. Don't laugh! It worked for the most part. If she wanted to blow $80 on a pair of shoes, she had to call me and get my vote. And vice versa. This had it's pros and cons. It promoted good behavior because she new that if I was pissed at her, she would not likely get my vote. The con though is that the person who doesn't really tend to be a "spender" ends up being resented. At the time, I wasn't high maintainence. I was focused on building a mansion in an upscale neighborhood so that I could raise my future kids with the best life had to offer. I didn't want my future kids to have any excuses to not succeed. I came from a poor family so it was tough for me growing up. I want better for my future children and so I don't see anything wrong with that. Nothing is a guarantee, this I know, I was only trying to up the odds. Since I was so focused on not spending money on myself, I spent it on "us." Unfortunately, that came back and bit me when she filed for divorce and what should have been "me" money turned in to "we" money and I lost big time on that deal. Nearly a half million dollars. And I had to sell the mansion that I had just built in order to give her such a large pay out. That was pretty good for a girl who was 26 years old. And especially good considering we live in the South; a place where you get a lot of square footage for your dollar. But I digress.

 

Why I think the way I think? Hmm, well I am not one to think flowers, romance, and a knight in shining armor is the way I want my life. I do not ever want to be dependent on someone else and am more than happy to share myself with someone else that isn't needed by me or needs me but we want each other. An equal relationship.

Exactly. Sometimes I wonder, as I debate whether to tell these girls I date, that I have money (show them that I am a secure person to attach to) or if I should keep quiet (risk being seen as someone who is not a provider). It's a bit of a catch 22.

 

You say you never want to be dependent on someone else....ahhhhh....I've heard that before. I even supported my wife on that one. I completely supported her on getting her doctorate degree. Even paid for it. I wanted to make sure she wasn't with me because she "had" to be. I don't know what the hell I was thinking with that deal. As she gained her confidence, she saw she could easily get by without me with her career plus her divorce cash out. Not sure even in hind sight if that was a good idea.

 

Ooooohh......hmmmmmm... equality... I wouldn't touch that topic with a ten foot pole.

 

I am a type A personality, who is a great career that should only get better who is also a bit of a control freak. Out of respect for my significant other I want to have as little surprises happen as possible

Great information. I am type A and so was my ex. I will admit that I was a bit more of a control freak than she. I'm not sure I follow you on "respect" equates to no surprises. Maybe you can explain that one. That sounds more like "spin" to me. I do that too. Wanna hear how I introduce the topic of prenup? Since it has such a stigma attached to it, I renamed it. I call it the "together forever agreement." Sounds better, dontcha think?

[trust]

Lots of good thoughts about prenups here. I just wanted to add about divorce settlements the old 50/50 splits and the equitable distribution states. From what I have read there are only a handful of the 50/50 states out there (10 or so I think). The rest like mine seem to have an equitable distribution based on who contributed what. It also appears in my state that assets from before marriage (and debts) stay with the person and the same with inheritance and trust funds. I am not a lawyer and have not gone through a divorce but as you can tell have done some research on that part. Otherwise, why would I be on this forum .

 

Hmmmm....can't speak for other states. Just my sucky no-fault state. If you call 70/30 an equitable split, then my state, and my particular divorce would qualify. Ah...the assets before marriage thing... I hear a lot of unsuspecting fellas say this...it's usually their excuse..that they would not likely get a prenup because they own nothing. To that I say, you are broke now, but do you intend on being broke for the rest of your life? I was broke when I got married. Neither of us contributed any assets to bring in. Oh, wait, my bad, yes she did. She brought in $3000 dollars that her mom had been hiding for her. She used it as leverage after I told her I didn't want to blow $6000 on a stupid boob job. I lost that battle. And I lost $3000 that I added to complete the surgery. Technically, I still own the other boob. NEWHO....She went to graduate school while I amassed a fortune. This was fine and dandy with me....because I was never getting a divorce. Didn't work out quite the way I had planned.

 

And *stay* on this forum. Lots of good information here from very well intentioned people (except for the couple of folks I've been battling it out with in another thread over the weekend ) Glad to hear what you have to say. Thanks for the input.