any MOW struggling

[Lookingforward]

Yes, I'm American, and yes, I'm familiar with that and that it should be more heavily scrutinized to keep people from getting married simply to get a green card.

 

As someone who came to the USA on a spousal visa, trust me, it IS heavily scrutinised these days...........

[bish]

As someone who came to the USA on a spousal visa, trust me, it IS heavily scrutinised these days...........

 

Not nearly enough.

[Lookingforward]

Not nearly enough.

 

For those coming here on spousal or fiance/e visas it IS - perhaps they should do more to scrutinise those applying that are already IN this country, I agree.

 

Unless of course you would prefer US citizens to only marry other US citizens LOL

[bish]

Unless of course you would prefer US citizens to only marry other US citizens LOL

 

That would be preferred as opposed to people marrying non-US citizens just to get them in the country.

[Lookingforward]

That would be preferred as opposed to people marrying non-US citizens just to get them in the country.

 

and I'd say the % that do that is very small

[bish]

and I'd say the % that do that is very small

 

Well if you have a source for any statistics on that, I'd be happy to look at it.

[OWoman]

Nice try with the assumptions based on logic dig. What "puzzles" is that one would ditch their convictions for so-called "practical reasons"

 

I'm not "ditching my convictions". I still believe very firmly that sexual exclusivity is unnatural (there's another thread on this so I'm not openng that door here) and that social structures that seek to enforce it are politically repressive. But I also believe in choice and I don't believe anyone should be forced to have sex with anyone against their will.

 

So, the person I choose to have sex with is MM. We want to be together. We are citizens of different countries so in order to be together, one or the other - or both, if we choose to settle in a different country - of us requires a visa / work permit. Which requires us to get married. Is that really so difficult to understand? Perhaps you've never had sex that is that earth-shatteringly good that you're prepared to move across the planet for, but as someone who has - don't knock it till you've tried it!

[OWoman]

In my opinion...nothing.

 

Another internally contradictory argument, then.

[pelicanpreacher]

I'm not "ditching my convictions". I still believe very firmly that sexual exclusivity is unnatural (there's another thread on this so I'm not openng that door here) and that social structures that seek to enforce it are politically repressive. But I also believe in choice and I don't believe anyone should be forced to have sex with anyone against their will.

 

So, the person I choose to have sex with is MM. We want to be together. We are citizens of different countries so in order to be together, one or the other - or both, if we choose to settle in a different country - of us requires a visa / work permit. Which requires us to get married. Is that really so difficult to understand? Perhaps you've never had sex that is that earth-shatteringly good that you're prepared to move across the planet for, but as someone who has - don't knock it till you've tried it!

 

For the sake of argument, I'm going to assume that you have developed a deeper and more abiding commitment in your relationship to MM other than what's been provided through sex alone and that the highlighted statement offered in your response was merely a flippant attempt at humor to get the poster's goat. If not, I would suggest that you and MM prenup your marriage and keep your assets and liabilities seperate so when the next "Good Time Charlie" comes along you'll still able to travel light in pursuit of your next adventure! If MM truly is only as good as his last lay and knows this as the primary impetus for forging a relationship with you then lets hope that when his thread finally breaks he's too old to care and no longer interested in sex anyways.

[bish]

I'm not "ditching my convictions". I still believe very firmly that sexual exclusivity is unnatural (there's another thread on this so I'm not openng that door here) and that social structures that seek to enforce it are politically repressive.

 

When you get married you vow to "forsake all others". So if you get married, and take those vows, you are either ditching your convictions, or your vows means absolutely nothing.

 

 

But I also believe in choice and I don't believe anyone should be forced to have sex with anyone against their will.

 

 

??? What does that have to do with monogamy and believing in marriage and vows?

 

 

So, the person I choose to have sex with is MM. We want to be together. We are citizens of different countries so in order to be together, one or the other - or both, if we choose to settle in a different country - of us requires a visa / work permit. Which requires us to get married. Is that really so difficult to understand?

 

I understand fully. You are spitting in the face of marriage just so one of you can get a visa.

 

 

Perhaps you've never had sex that is that earth-shatteringly good that you're prepared to move across the planet for, but as someone who has - don't knock it till you've tried it!

 

Oh I have had earth shattering sex....but I'd never consider it good enough to move across the sea for. I'd move across the sea because I love someone, because I want to spend the rest of my life with that person in a monogamous relationship....not because of sex.

[Lookingforward]

Well if you have a source for any statistics on that, I'd be happy to look at it.

 

Sorry - I don't bother quoting "statistics" on discussion forums..........

 

as I said "I'd say" (meaning based on my experiences)

[Lookingforward]

When you get married you vow to "forsake all others".

 

only if you are married in a religious ceremony I would venture to guess......

[bish]

only if you are married in a religious ceremony I would venture to guess......

 

then I'd imagine the vows for the type of marriage you might be thinking of would go something like this:

 

Do you want to marry this guy?

Do you want to marry this chick?

If so, kiss already, lets get out of here....its Miller Time.

[Owl]

LOL...Owoman's vows are more likely to read "Until I decide to schtup someone else...", or "Until the citizenship comes thru...".

[Lookingforward]

then I'd imagine the vows for the type of marriage you might be thinking of would go something like this:

 

Do you want to marry this guy?

Do you want to marry this chick?

If so, kiss already, lets get out of here....its Miller Time.

 

You know I'm not the one marrying for a visa....okay ? Those aren't the vows I took.......

 

I'd go back to the original topic but there really didn't seem to be one apart from "hi I'm a MOW"

[White Flower]

LOL...Owoman's vows are more likely to read "Until I decide to schtup someone else...", or "Until the citizenship comes thru...".

Sometimes I wonder if this shouldn't be the way all vows are made. It would certainly put a higher value on those who stayed married until death.

[bish]

You know I'm not the one marrying for a visa....okay ? Those aren't the vows I took.......

 

It wasn't directed at you...it was a general comment. I said the type of vows you might be "thinking" of, not the type of vows you took.

 

You need to chill.

[Lookingforward]

Sometimes I wonder if this shouldn't be the way all vows are made. It would certainly put a higher value on those who stayed married until death.

 

More like "until I decide it doesn't suit me to be married any more"

[Owl]

More like "until I decide it doesn't suit me to be married any more"

 

You know, I'm a very "pro marriage" guy.

 

But if people actually did agree to this...in both heart and mind...when they got married, and then kept that same vow in their heart and mind for the rest of the time that they're married...I wouldn't have an issue with cheating. There'd be no reason for a BS to feel betrayed, there'd be no reason for anyone to lie about an affair, etc...

 

But that's not the vow that people make. That's not the expectation that people go into marriages with...with very, very few exceptions.

 

Even Owoman has had some experience with someone that she made clear she had no intention of monogamy too...but in the end, while he heard what she said with his ears, in his heart he still EXPECTED monogamy, and was hurt when it didn't happen.

[Lookingforward]

You know, I'm a very "pro marriage" guy.

 

But if people actually did agree to this...in both heart and mind...when they got married, and then kept that same vow in their heart and mind for the rest of the time that they're married...I wouldn't have an issue with cheating. There'd be no reason for a BS to feel betrayed, there'd be no reason for anyone to lie about an affair, etc...

 

But that's not the vow that people make. That's not the expectation that people go into marriages with...with very, very few exceptions.

 

Even Owoman has had some experience with someone that she made clear she had no intention of monogamy too...but in the end, while he heard what she said with his ears, in his heart he still EXPECTED monogamy, and was hurt when it didn't happen.

 

fwiw , I was being sarcastic

[Mino]

Thats all very fine well and dandy. Only one problem, your decisions affected other people.

 

 

sorry i got off the subject but i really want to thank everyone who has posted their opinions in a nice way. its easier to work things out and get advice if you talk to people who HAVE BEEN THERE.

Hi Bbish, I see your back... But it seems to me we have a nicer bish..... is that possible. still likes to debate, but with a different style I see. Someone has healed:)

[OWoman]

When you get married you vow to "forsake all others". So if you get married, and take those vows, you are either ditching your convictions, or your vows means absolutely nothing.

 

Have you been married, bish?

 

I have, and the vows said nothing about "forsaking all others". Civil ceremonies (in this country at least; I haven't been married anywhere else) don't require that. They merely seek to establish whether both parties are competent to marry (ie, not currently married to anyone else, above the age of consent, understand the legality of the contract they're signing) and whether both parties do consent. The whole thing takes a few minutes, including witnesses signing.

 

I would not promise "to forsake all others" because I know I would be lying.

 

Oh I have had earth shattering sex....but I'd never consider it good enough to move across the sea for.

 

So it wasn't THAT good then... Oh well, better luck in the future!

[OWoman]

LOL...Owoman's vows are more likely to read "Until I decide to schtup someone else...", or "Until the citizenship comes thru...".

 

I'll stick with standard civil agreement, if it's all the same with you, Owl - a legal contract between MM, myself and the state, since it's really all for the state's benefit.

 

(And, for the record, I'm looking for a visa here, not citizenship - neither of us wants citizenship of the other's country, we're quite happy with our own. We just want the legal right to remain and work in whichever country we happen to find ourselves in at the time - which looks initially to be his, until his kids finish school, and then mine, which we both prefer.)

[OWoman]

Even Owoman has had some experience with someone that she made clear she had no intention of monogamy too...but in the end, while he heard what she said with his ears, in his heart he still EXPECTED monogamy, and was hurt when it didn't happen.

 

"Hoped for", rather than "expected". And "disappointed" rather than "hurt". It was what he claimed to want too, remember - is it my fault I was honest and he wasn't?

[Owl]

"Hoped for", rather than "expected". And "disappointed" rather than "hurt". It was what he claimed to want too, remember - is it my fault I was honest and he wasn't?

 

Not at all. I actually have a lot of respect for you being up front and honest about it. I think that's rather decent of you.

 

I'm just pointing out that there's often a disconnect between what someone SAYS they want, and what they REALLY want. In your case...there isn't that disconnect at all. You're outspoken and up front.

 

But he probably didn't really EXPECT that. That's why he had hopes for something different than what was agreed on.

 

Now...in no fashion do I see that as any fault back on YOU...not at all.

 

Its simply a function of most human beings...he did what most people do. He agreed to something, but actually had HOPED, and WANTED something different.

 

Make sense?

 

And you're a great example of my point...from my perspective, any guy who gets into a relationship with you has an advantage that most men don't...you're stating HONESTLY up front what your expectations and plans are. If two people decide to spend time together based on that same clear expectation that its NOT a monogamous relationship...its all good.

 

I don't have an issue with living like that at all, if that's the choice that the both make. That's an honest relationship...its great!

 

Its not how I want to live...I'd prefer a monogamous relationship. That's MY preference...and has no bearing on your choices at all. And as long as my choices don't interfere with yours, and vice versa...its all gravy in my mind.