the inevitable contact

[Trialbyfire]

I accept it. I'd like to know why but I accept it. I can accept things and still wish they hadn't turned out the way they did. I'm not fighting it I just wanted to understand it... for myself.

 

I think LC and I may be alike in that this kind of processing helps us ultimately make our peace with the relationship and how it ended. Maybe analytical types are prone to this kind of speculation, examination, processing...maybe others find it easier to accept that it doesn't matter what they think or why - or are able to get to that place sooner.

 

But I know I have to work things out in my MIND just as much as in my heart...

Don't misjudge me. I'm an analyst by occupation or at least a large part of what I do.

 

The difference maybe that when analyzing, I don't internalize everything or if I find myself doing so, I kick the crap out of me.

 

What happened with LC is that she went into this situation with expectations of how her ex "should" or she "wanted/wished" him to react. When he didn't react that way, she internalized it to be that he was uncivil for all kinds of reasons, whether it be ego-driven or hurt feelings.

 

I will challenge LC in her approach. She also had the choice to challenge him on his position. She could easily have walked right up to him and said "Are you going to ignore me all night?", with a smile. IF she only viewed him as a friend, there's no reason why not to do this. Perhaps he was waiting for her to make the first friendly overture.

 

Of course this would mean making herself vulnerable. I see some passive-aggressive in LC. There's only one perspective she's looking at this and it's very internalized in a personal way.

[bish]

Ugh. He is a friend not an ex. A friend of 10 years. I just don't think of XYZ as an ex.

 

Then why did you say this?:

 

"It is probably because I am sad today but orange's little anecdote reminded me of what was affectionately called "the sweater fight". I had a sweater that was given to me along with a lot of other belongings and things that couldn't be taken in a cross coutry move by a friend. The friend was someone I dated 10 years ago for about a year. "

 

 

No, I told him the truth the entire time. He knew damn well who and what XYZ was. I'd never ever lie... especially not to someone I love. He just chose to hear what he wanted to because he was angry. If i had lied he wouldn't have spoken to me again. I never lied. I still wouldn't.

 

Ok, this is where you aren't making sense. You told us that XYZ is just a friend and he is not one of your X's. But you say you dated him for a year. Sorry, but he IS an X.

 

So you were telling him he was just a friend and here comes XYZ and says, "oh, I dated your gf".

 

Now its a moot point because he has jealousy issues, but do you not see where the little fibs are snowballing? You didn't see him as an XYZ as an ex. But you dated him for a year. So probably what happened here is you wanted your bf to believe that he wasn't an X, but when the guy told him, in the words, that you 2 "dated"....that makes the "we were never anything but friends" seem like a lie to him.

 

And it was 10 freakin' years ago. I wouldn't be put off by someone telling me, "ya, we use to date". But I'd have something in the back of my head wondering why someone might tell me, "we were nothing ever but friends" and then finding out it was more than that. Not enough to get my undies in a bunch over though, but I might make a mention of it.

 

So I guess the question is, you say he was never an X, yet you dated him for a year. I think this is the problem your bf had with it, compounded by the fact he has issues.

 

If a SO told me, "he was never anything but a friend", but then I found out they dated...well, that kind of looks like a lie.

 

But don't get upset. Its over. You don't have to put up with that kind of jealousy.

 

but in the future, do try to not play off your past relationships as "just friends" if they truly were not. Because I don't even think it takes a jealous person to be a little put off by even the littlest of white lies.

[carhill]

For clarity (for this old fart ), LC, is someone you date but do not have sex with, though have/had romantic interest in, a "friend"? Does "ex" apply only to those you have sex with (whilst dating or in a R/M)? Thanks

[LikeCharlotte]

Don't misjudge me. I'm an analyst by occupation or at least a large part of what I do.

 

The difference maybe that when analyzing, I don't internalize everything or if I find myself doing so, I kick the crap out of me.

 

What happened with LC is that she went into this situation with expectations of how her ex "should" or she "wanted/wished" him to react. When he didn't react that way, she internalized it to be that he was uncivil for all kinds of reasons, whether it be ego-driven or hurt feelings.

 

I will challenge LC in her approach. She also had the choice to challenge him on his position. She could easily have walked right up to him and said "Are you going to ignore me all night?", with a smile. IF she only viewed him as a friend, there's no reason why not to do this. Perhaps he was waiting for her to make the first friendly overture.

 

Of course this would mean making herself vulnerable. I see some passive-aggressive in LC. There's only one perspective she's looking at this and it's very internalized in a personal way.

You are missing a lot of back story here... really. I have talked to him several times but not in person. He is the one who told me we would be friends... I'm in the middle of moving, but you are missing lots of back story. I'm not reaching out to him anymore. Again, its his ball... whatever.

[Trialbyfire]

You are missing a lot of back story here... really. I have talked to him several times but not in person. He is the one who told me we would be friends... I'm in the middle of moving, but you are missing lots of back story. I'm not reaching out to him anymore. Again, its his ball... whatever.

Don't complicate it with backstory. This is the moment and the situation. If you recall your own emotional rollercoaster, don't you think that his feelings might be changing, from moment to moment? Is it possible he's also going through the five stages of grief? You can villainize him as much as you want but he's also human.

 

All I'm saying is that once you breakup, everyone is looking out for themselves and self-protecting. Why do you continue to allow someone who doesn't have your best interests in mind, to control your emotions? You really can control yourself.

[LikeCharlotte]

Then why did you say this?:

 

"It is probably because I am sad today but orange's little anecdote reminded me of what was affectionately called "the sweater fight". I had a sweater that was given to me along with a lot of other belongings and things that couldn't be taken in a cross coutry move by a friend. The friend was someone I dated 10 years ago for about a year.

So you would know that I dated him. And know why there is a problem. Exactly how i put it to my ex bf. He misinterpreted or maybe misheard, I don't know. We never got to that part.

 

 

 

Ok, this is where you aren't making sense. You told us that XYZ is just a friend and he is not one of your X's. But you say you dated him for a year. Sorry, but he IS an X.

I never said he wasn't an ex, I said we don't think about each other that way. It was 10 years ago, lots has changed. There is nothing like that between us. In 1996-1997 I dated XYZ... and every person I know knows it. He is an ex but he is a friend now... a close friend and has been ever since. I was a kid back then there is just no reason to think about XYZ in that way anymore. We don't say "hey I'm calling Charlotte (or XYZ) my ex gf/bf. We say I'm calling my friend.. because that is what we are, friends.

 

So you were telling him he was just a friend and here comes XYZ and says, "oh, I dated your gf".

I never lied. He knew exactly who and what XYZ was and that we dated. Moreover I never talked about XYZ like he was an ex because he is a friend now.

 

Now its a moot point because he has jealousy issues, but do you not see where the little fibs are snowballing? You didn't see him as an XYZ as an ex. But you dated him for a year. So probably what happened here is you wanted your bf to believe that he wasn't an X, but when the guy told him, in the words, that you 2 "dated"....that makes the "we were never anything but friends" seem like a lie to him.

I never said we were never anything but friends. For the last time I NEVER LIED. Why don't you get that? He heard what he wanted to or maybe he missed what I was trying to say but I NEVER LIED. I wouldn't lie to him. NEVER, under threat of death, I would not lie to him... still. I said the XYZ was my friend... I also told him that we dated long ago. As for his jealousy, why is that my problem? I was as careful as I could be and I did everything I could do to help him. I'm not even mad that he was jealous or whatever he was. I was more concerned for him than myself. You probably won't believe that but its true. I hated to see him stress over trivial things. I was always trying to make him smile.

 

And it was 10 freakin' years ago. I wouldn't be put off by someone telling me, "ya, we use to date". But I'd have something in the back of my head wondering why someone might tell me, "we were nothing ever but friends" and then finding out it was more than that. Not enough to get my undies in a bunch over though, but I might make a mention of it.

He did more than make mention of it... and I never said we were never anything but friends.. Where are you getting that? Its a good thing you wouldn't react as harshly but.. I really think you aren't actually reading my posts. You are totally missing the point.

 

So I guess the question is, you say he was never an X, yet you dated him for a year. I think this is the problem your bf had with it, compounded by the fact he has issues.

Never said that... lalalala Never lied lalalala.. I don't lie lalalala.

Well, the issues part you got right. XYZ is an ex but he has been a friend for 10 years, we are not and will never be anything else. The ex bf over reacted and I still tried to understand

 

If a SO told me, "he was never anything but a friend", but then I found out they dated...well, that kind of looks like a lie.

 

But don't get upset. Its over. You don't have to put up with that kind of jealousy.

 

but in the future, do try to not play off your past relationships as "just friends" if they truly were not. Because I don't even think it takes a jealous person to be a little put off by even the littlest of white lies.

ugh, are you even reading my posts? I am the most honest person most people know and I would never and have never lied to the ex... and if you held a gun to me I still wouldn't to this very moment. Do you get it now?

 

As for not getting upset... I'm a little upset that I'm being looked at like a liar when Im not. He did that too. You know what bish, I haven't felt this pissed in months trying to get someone to simply GET IT. heh. You are right its f***** over and I guess I am still an as**** no matter what I do.

 

Would you like to have another stomp on my heart or are we through here?

[LikeCharlotte]

Don't complicate it with backstory. This is the moment and the situation. If you recall your own emotional rollercoaster, don't you think that his feelings might be changing, from moment to moment? Is it possible he's also going through the five stages of grief? You can villainize him as much as you want but he's also human.

 

All I'm saying is that once you breakup, everyone is looking out for themselves and self-protecting. Why do you continue to allow someone who doesn't have your best interests in mind, to control your emotions? You really can control yourself.

I'm in control. I didnt plan to complicate it. I'm saying that there is more to it. Simply. I was upset that I was treated with disdain when I have been nothing but nice. I do have that right don't I? This is how I work through my things and that is what matters to me. Also, I know he is human... more than most really. I don't villanize him. I stated the facts. He's been cold and mean period and I don't deserve that.

[LikeCharlotte]

For clarity (for this old fart ), LC, is someone you date but do not have sex with, though have/had romantic interest in, a "friend"? Does "ex" apply only to those you have sex with (whilst dating or in a R/M)? Thanks

I never thought about defining it. XYZ was once an ex... technically he still is, but he is my friend NOW and thats how I view him. We dated, didn't work out.. we became friends. I define things by what they are not what they were most often not by sexual involvement.

[orangehose]

Okay, have a ton to say in response to this thread.

 

LC, did we date clones? My ex ALSO had issues with exes (his, mine), and had jealousy issues. I have a couple of my own anecdotes that are VERY similar in spirit to yours - in fact, I'll even PM you one of them at some point, because it could be healing / interesting to you to hear it.

 

But to summarize, my ex MAJORLY overreacted to my having contact with an ex. I erred in not openly informing him that I was in occasional contact with this ex, but his problem was not with my lack of informing him, but my having contact with my ex period, even though it was a 'friendly chat every couple of months' kind of situation.

 

I know everyone's entitled to their point of view, but I disagree with bish's view that it's disrespectful to one's partner to have any contact with exes. Frequent contact, indeed, would be disrespectful / unsettling, as well as extended 'date-like' encounters - but it's disrespectful to be doing that whether there was a past history with that person or not.

 

I wouldn't mind if a boyfriend occasionally had a lunch or phone conversation or email exchange with an ex. In fact, I now think of it as a really positive sign if a guy has friendships with exes, a sign of maturity and not holding grudges, etc. My current ex did not have post-relationship friendships, and in retrospect, that should have been a red sign for me that he would behave like a **** post-breakup, even though I didn't dump him or betray him.

 

After my breakup, I've renewed my 'occasional friendly contact' friendship with my ex ex (which I had withheld during my R because my current ex opposed it). I have a good deal more respect for my ex ex for being capable of being on friendly terms with me post-breakup. It's not a close friendship or anything, but it's nice to be on friendly terms with someone after a relationship, rather than in some Cuban missile crisis situation!

[orangehose]

LC, bottomline is that it doesn't matter what he's thinking or why he's acting this way. It just is.

 

You have to learn to accept this, that he's separate and can/will take whatever actions he wants to take. You can/will take whatever actions you wish to take. You cannot and never could control his actions.

 

TBF, logically i completely agree with the 'tough love' nature of your advice, and really LC (and I) should just accept, stop analyzing and stop caring. But it's hard to just snap one's fingers and make feelings disappear. On the other hand, I think with time your words will sink in and we indeed will stop caring.

 

I'm biased, but I rather think LC's reaction is legitimate. It's pretty understandable to be hurt and confused when you've been dumped, you didnt do anything bad, even if you unintentionally said a few wrong things here and there (and who HASN'T misspoke or accidentally offended during a relationship?) and now your ex won't even look at you. It's kind of dehumanizing. I'm not saying her ex is the epitome of evil or anything, but it's definitely worse behavior than if he had had a friendly little chat and went on his way. It's all a spectrum.

[orangehose]

 

After many tedious hours of discussion he admits he has a problem with ex's. He can't bear to talk about his previous relationships and has an issue with hearing that my previous realtionships ever happened. He admits it is his issue and it has always been a problem but says it isn't jealousy. Again, huh? what?

 

 

LC, don't beat yourself up too much about having said this or that that might have provoked him. This guy has an issue, and it was going to recur no matter what. I also have gone through periods of beating myself up over a thing or two that I said with regards to my ex ex issue, wondering about how I could have assuaged him more effectively, etc.

 

But then I think, okay, if he's the jealous type, it would be an issue EVENTUALLY. Maybe one day in the future, i befriend a male colleague, have lunch with him, and my ex finds out. He could have a huge fit and end things right there. I mean, over time, with a guy that sensitive and jealous, I was bound to eventually 'slip up' and cause him to leave me. There's no winning with these people.

[Trialbyfire]

TBF, logically i completely agree with the 'tough love' nature of your advice, and really LC (and I) should just accept, stop analyzing and stop caring. But it's hard to just snap one's fingers and make feelings disappear. On the other hand, I think with time your words will sink in and we indeed will stop caring.

 

I'm biased, but I rather think LC's reaction is legitimate. It's pretty understandable to be hurt and confused when you've been dumped, you didnt do anything bad, even if you unintentionally said a few wrong things here and there (and who HASN'T misspoke or accidentally offended during a relationship?) and now your ex won't even look at you. It's kind of dehumanizing. I'm not saying her ex is the epitome of evil or anything, but it's definitely worse behavior than if he had had a friendly little chat and went on his way. It's all a spectrum.

orangehose, this isn't tough love. I haven't even begun to give LC any tough love. What I'm expressing is a method I apply for breakups, to myself. This is what I do but I'm way, way tougher on myself. I wasn't kidding about beating the crap out of myself if I EVER, EVER stoop to self-pity.

 

The sooner you ladies learn to take back your power, the sooner you're going to let go and move on.

[LikeCharlotte]

In fact, I now think of it as a really positive sign if a guy has friendships with exes, a sign of maturity and not holding grudges, etc. My current ex did not have post-relationship friendships, and in retrospect, that should have been a red sign for me that he would behave like a **** post-breakup, even though I didn't dump him or betray him.

I fully agree, it is a sign of a mature and solid person who moes on in a good way when they have exs as friends... real friends, you know what I mean.

[LikeCharlotte]

The sooner you ladies learn to take back your power, the sooner you're going to let go and move on.

I have moved on... I'm not kidding. You are reading something in my posts that isn't there. I don't want him, you couldn't pay me... I don't care. WOW. TBF, I like you but please pay attention. I'm over it and him. I've said it a million times and believe me I feel it. We are different people and I don't do thing the way you do. Please don't presume to know how I feel when it isn't what I've said at all.

[LikeCharlotte]

I'm not saying her ex is the epitome of evil or anything, but it's definitely worse behavior than if he had had a friendly little chat and went on his way. It's all a spectrum.

Right. That's what I'm saying. I like him... he's good people. He chose to treat me this way and I don't like it and wish I knew why. It couldn't be more simple. i didn't say he was a monster and F anyone who does. He's alright.

[sunshinegirl]

I fully agree, it is a sign of a mature and solid person who moes on in a good way when they have exs as friends... real friends, you know what I mean.

 

I'm only friends with one of my ex-boyfriends. Does that make me immature and not solid?

 

It think it's a case-by-case situation, myself. I needed time and space away from all of the exes to recover; and when I did, I realized with two of them that I had been treated in such a way during the relationship/breakup as to make friendship with that person unappealing. One ex and I have recovered a friendship but that is because throughout everything there was mutual respect and honesty. That has not been true in my other relationships.

 

Should I want to become friends with this ex, who lied to me and cheated on me?

[LikeCharlotte]

I'm only friends with one of my ex-boyfriends. Does that make me immature and not solid?

 

=Should I want to become friends with this ex, who lied to me and cheated on me?

Oh, no I mean its a good sign if a person has been able to become friends with an ex that there weren't major honesty issues, cheating, stealing, abuse, general bad treatment and other bad things with. It doesn't apply to all situations. Um, no I don't think you should be friends with the cheater. ewww. In fact the one you are friends with is the type of situation I'm talking about. You know, the "just didn't work out" situations. I think its a good sign.. or a green flag if someone I meet has a friend that is that type of ex.

[Trialbyfire]

I have moved on... I'm not kidding. You are reading something in my posts that isn't there. I don't want him, you couldn't pay me... I don't care. WOW. TBF, I like you but please pay attention. I'm over it and him. I've said it a million times and believe me I feel it. We are different people and I don't do thing the way you do. Please don't presume to know how I feel when it isn't what I've said at all.

LC, no one who's over anyone, allows them to have control over their emotions. If you were over him, you'd shrug your shoulders at his actions. This is why it's such a relief to get to the stage of bless-ed indifference.

 

Anyways, this has nothing to do with like or dislike. It's advice freely given. Whether you choose to take it or not, is emphatically your choice. Whether I choose to stop giving advice, is emphatically my choice.

[LikeCharlotte]

LC, no one who's over anyone, allows them to have control over their emotions. If you were over him, you'd shrug your shoulders at his actions. This is why it's such a relief to get to the stage of bless-ed indifference.

To be fair, I don't think he controls my emotions at all. I would feel this way if anyone I know treated me this way. I see your point but I don't agree. The stress in this situation was not caused by my caring for him. It was caused by my discomfort among friends due to his actions. It was the first time I had to deal with it and if he continues to act that way I'm sure I'll get numb to it. When I am through with someone that is it. I know myself very well and I can say two things with no reservations. First I'm over him/it. Second, he lost me.

 

Anyways, this has nothing to do with like or dislike. It's advice freely given. Whether you choose to take it or not, is emphatically your choice. Whether I choose to stop giving advice, is emphatically my choice.

We agree, and I still like you. I feel the advice or opinion doesn't apply here but I see how its derived and from your position it makes scense. It is also my choice to come to LS to talk about things and work through how I am feeling. I think it helps me to hear what others have to say. I like to be open to other ideas and perspectives. Sometimes it is hard to get across feelings in text.

[bish]

I never said he wasn't an ex, I said we don't think about each other that way.

 

Whats the difference? You either dated him, which makes him an X, or you didn't.

 

Moot point though really since your bf has jealousy issues. I'm just having a hard time following the flip flop, and maybe that is the problem with your xbf, he couldn't keep the stories straight either.

 

 

It was 10 years ago, lots has changed. There is nothing like that between us.

 

Your xbf didn't know that.

 

 

In 1996-1997 I dated XYZ

 

which makes him an X

 

 

 

I never said we were never anything but friends. For the last time I NEVER LIED. Why don't you get that?

 

Because maybe now I'm starting to see the problem he had. I'm reading a story that just can't seem to stay on track. You would say you dated him, then in another post said:

 

"Ugh. He is a friend not an ex. A friend of 10 years. I just don't think of XYZ as an ex."

 

Now arguing the point of considering him an X or whether he actually was or not, on a post in a forum, what I read above pretty much tells me that you didn't think he was an X at all. Maybe your X got the same impression.

 

Mind you, I'm not ragging on you, but maybe you xbf had a hard time keeping what you perceived as an X or not straight and he thought you were lying. I know you say you weren't lying, but he might have thought that.

 

 

As for his jealousy, why is that my problem?

 

His deep rooted jealousy problems are absolutely NOT your problem.

 

But those deep rooted problems might have really come out if he got confused about what you were saying. "he is an ex"..."i don't consider him an ex". I know what you are saying, it was 10 years ago. But he is an X and if he heard you say you don't consider him an X, that would pretty much translate to him that you are saying he is not an X.

 

But really, like I said, 10 years ago?? The guy needed to realize that it was ancient history. But then again, I wouldn't go up to someones husband/bf, shake their hand and say, "I use to date your woman". With his issues, that translated to, "I use to #@$# your gf".

 

 

I was as careful as I could be and I did everything I could do to help him. I'm not even mad that he was jealous or whatever he was. I was more concerned for him than myself. You probably won't believe that but its true. I hated to see him stress over trivial things. I was always trying to make him smile.

 

Oh I totally believe you. I am not saying you lied to him or anything of the sort. The wording of things sometimes leaves too much room for interpretation and thats why good communication is the key. It was a combination of bad communication and his issues.

 

 

He did more than make mention of it... and I never said we were never anything but friends.. Where are you getting that?

 

Nothing, I'm trying to make sense of it all since it looked like you flip flopped. I was starting to think he had a point about the lying. But it wasn't a case of lying, just poor communication and/or what you perceived as an X and how you conveyed it to him.

 

 

As for not getting upset... I'm a little upset that I'm being looked at like a liar when Im not. He did that too. You know what bish, I haven't felt this pissed in months trying to get someone to simply GET IT. heh. You are right its f***** over and I guess I am still an as**** no matter what I do.

 

Would you like to have another stomp on my heart or are we through here?

 

Not stomping hun. I just had a problem with you saying one thing in one post, and another in a different post. You clarified it.

[LikeCharlotte]

TY bish. I don't sleep much lately sometimes its hard to follow my words because of it.

[bish]

TY bish. I don't sleep much lately sometimes its hard to follow my words because of it.

 

Well I hope the lack of sleep isn't due to your split with your xbf or because he is snubbing you. It aint worth it.

[LikeCharlotte]

Well I hope the lack of sleep isn't due to your split with your xbf or because he is snubbing you. It aint worth it.

Nah, it started that way because i was sleeping alone again all the time but school then moving kept me in sleeplessness. It's been months - 3 I think since i've slept normally. I still have the occasional sleep stalking ex dream but I just get up and wait when that happens. I hope it passes soon.