37 and totally inexperieced...

[rargran]

So I've read this thread because I'm in about the same situation minus the weight loss. I've spent most of my adult life in a shell not actively seeking a romantic relationship. That may have been by choice, or more likely something was just a little skewed in my head, but that doesn't matter. All that matters is that I know what I want. You appear to have only a vague idea of what that is and that should be corrected. You should be absolutely clear of what you want. If you want to play the sex game, then play it! It's what everyone else is playing anyway. If you want to play the dating game, then do that. Me I think I want to play the mating game. That's what I want, and that's what I'm out there looking for. I'm leveraging my friends for introductions; they're not particularly cooperative, but I'm still doing things on my own. I'm trying all the internet dating places I can; certainly I'm not having much luck with that either. I go out to bars and clubs--I know that's not where I'm going to meet someone special--because I need to practice being charming and witty. I'm very curious to know what it is that you say to the women you try to meet. You ought to try to keep a record of that. In fact I'm wondering what sort of friends you have. I'm sure you're a complete person who has interests beyond simply looking for a woman. On a side note your drunken post seemed rather appropriate; these people though well intentioned made few if any helpful suggestions.

[paddington bear]

I watched a TV programme once which aimed to help people with their romantic problems. One guy had a phobia/was uncomfortable with being touched by women after years of being alone. He started getting massages with a very nice understanding massage therapist (might I add at this point not 'that' type of massage, just your average normal back massage). He freaked out at first, felt very uncomfortable, but week by week he got used to being touched by a woman in a safe environment and soon enough it was no longer an issue for him.

 

I would say also enroll in some kind of dance class, something like salsa where you have to dance with a partner, hold their hands etc - again just to get used to being with members of the opposite sex and to practice not cringing away when they touch you.

 

You've lost a LOT of weight - well done you! Fabulous, but as an earlier poster said, while you've changed physically on the outside, you are still 'fat' in your head, remind yourself daily that you are no longer big.

 

Apparently our brains need positive things repeated twice as much for us to believe, whereas negative things have more of an effect with far less repetition.

 

Use positive affirmations - don't think anything that your mind won't believe, word it in a way that works e.g. I'm becoming more attractive and confident every day. Repeat, repeat, repeat. Try and knock any self-criticism on the head, or at least notice how often you are putting yourself down in your own mind - we all do it, and if you really pay attention to what you say to yourself in your head you will be shocked. Don't tell yourself anything negative that you wouldn't say to a good friend. A good friend wouldn't want to hear 'you're a loser, unattractive, useless' or whatever - treat yourself like a best friend, with kindness and compassion in how you think of yourself internally.

 

I have the feeling that underneath the surface that you are really, really ANGRY - maybe because you changed yourself physically and thought the rest would automatically follow. Try not to get angry or upset that everything isn't going exactly as you wish (it's hard I know).

 

Think baby steps and congratulate yourself on each tiny achievement 'I got a smile today from a hot girl' great! and so on - for now, get used to non-sexual physical contact with members of the opposite sex, without wanting it to lead to anything.

 

Get out and about and socialise as much as possible, again just to practice making small talk with people - we all want someone who seems desperately interested in what we have to say, if you feel your mind is wandering off...well, they'll go elsewhere for their fix. Learn to listen, there is always an air of mystery about someone who truly listens to what you have to say and responds with a well thought-out answer, it doesn't require you to babble away all night either.

 

You have said you missed out on everything that 'should have' happened in your 20's. For whatever reasons, you didn't experience what others did. Comparing yourself to others is the fastest way to severe depression in my experience, I try very hard not to do it now - and have often found that others did not have the wonderful life I thought anyway - most people do a great PR job on themselves.

 

You are where you are now, you have a chance at a whole new life. Think of it as exciting instead of hard and difficult and finally try not to radiate an air of desperation - I have an extremely good looking male friend, but he's desperate for sex, he's hit on me and every other girl he comes across. Despite his good looks I would never go near him because I feel, I'm not special, I'm just there to scratch an itch and anyone would do - his desperation is really off-putting.

 

I am sure it will all work out for you, given time. Don't panic! Don't think on how old you are and so on, pretend you're in your twenties just learning about life and love and sex like we all were. Best of luck.

[tman666]

Disclaimer to Matt: I'm not talking down to you. Any advice I give has to do with me hoping that you'll make positive changes in your life. If I come across as callous and rude, it's because I am. Take anything I say for what you wish.

 

You need to take it to the next level. You need to start showing that you have more testosterone flowing through you than the others. Losing 260 lbs is an awesome start. At 6'2", 240 lbs, you are in a prime position to get physically impressive, which never hurts the confidence (the real issue here). Women can smell if you don't have any real confidence. Don't even bother trying to fake it... They know.

 

The fact is that women are first and foremost drawn to what I would call, for lack of a better term "alpha males". You stated earlier that you look (or think you look) average. That's not the mindset you can have... You need to know that you could outperform in some way at least some of the other guys in the room. I'm referring to all sorts of skills: bowstaff skills, computer hacking skills, nunchuck skills... Just kidding .

 

I'm talking about really anything that sets you apart from the rest. Since you seem to struggle with the social side of things, you might have to start with something that doesn't require someone else to reciprocate. Something that you can own independently. I speak of the iron game Matt. Lifting weights (not machines or any bull like that, I mean heavy barbells) to get stronger, bigger, faster, whatever... Just get this idea of wanting to look "toned" out of your head. That's the malicious circle of mediocrity the average people fall into. Due to your former weight, your calves are probably huge. Bonus number 1. Now all you have to do is get intimidating. It's not going to be easy, but I would bet you that since you already know the benefits of not slipping into mediocrity (you lost 260 lbs for ****s sake), you will be able to stick with getting ripped.

 

You've probably been feeling picked on all your life, which you probably have been. It's not too late to fight back, to go on the offensive. You need to stop dwelling in the "beta" mindset. Start thinking like the alpha male thinks... Go to www.t-nation.com. I don't work for them or anything like that, but I am a member. People aren't going to sugarcoat anything there, so don't bother posting yet, unless you are a glutton for punishment. Read all of the articles you can, and start lifting heavy ****, every day. It's going to hurt. You will feel much pain. But you will embrace that pain. You will learn to love that pain, and through your blood, sweat, and sinew you will start gaining the confidence that you need. Trust on this one. Without a solid foundation (self confidence) you will never find a meaningful relationship. If you need counseling, go for it. I simply propose this as an alternative that will be less expensive and way more meaningful.

 

"He who transforms himself into a beast gets rid of the pain of being a man"

[You'reasian]

Matt,

 

Here's my 2 pesos on wait has already been presented:

 

Body

I'm taking a different approach than the previous poster who said hit the iron becom a huge beast and intimidating looking. Strength and size are good things, if you're planning on using them in your endeavors (i.e. Security work, Power sports, Contact sports...and this kind of training is strictly for 'off season') - but if you want to do more athletic endeavors to look/feel better, challenge yourself and meet more people you are better off becoming more fit. Some of the world's most dangerous men are lean and mean, even at your height. Don't get me wrong, there are some huge, mean SOBs out there - but you could not pick out the worlds most elite by their physique.

 

Lift weights maybe twice a week, but do other things as well. Swim. Cycle. Run. Archery. Boxing. Canoeing - you will not only increase your aptitude for fun activities, you will meet a bigger circle of people.

 

Mind

Keep your mind active. Man has an innate desire to create and hunt. Well, looks like the hunting portion of your mind will be pre-occupied . Its time for you to create something of your world and yourself. Get excited about this. Read. Learn new things. Make them happen before your eyes. Part of learning is learning how to fail and continue on. I bet you didn't ride a bike perfectly the first time you got on - I know I didn't lol

 

Spirit

How will you rejuvinate yourself? What unites your mind and body? Find your spiritual and religious self. Go to church if you want to know God. If you don't feel comfortable at a church, go to some kind of religious service that you do enjoy.

 

Sit down and write a plan for yourself. The plan might...no it will change, but the persuit should stay the same.

[tman666]

I agree with the last poster wholeheartedly. It really just depends on what direction you wish to take. I have done both sides (both combat/contact sports and lifting to get hyooge) and both are good for building self confidence. Same goal, different paths. Just don't settle for average in whatever you choose to do, whether it be fighting, lifting, chess, or hot yoga.

[mattmck]

OK man. Meaningless sex you can get. But, there is a catch. If you really consider yourself "shallow," then that may be where some of your issues are. Give me some examples of the kind of women you find attractive and some of the kind you just want to have sex with, if there is a difference. The type of woman men would settle down with usually aren't the same women they would have a one night scandal with. Although we do, sometimes, get lucky in both respects. If your having some confidence problems with women, I suggest you get comfortable with being in the company of women first. Not like a work related situation, like a personal, more intimate setting. Get some female friends and try hanging out with them. There is an alternative, but I'm not sure if you would be comfortable with it...

 

In my mind, there isn't really any difference between the kind of woman I would just like to sleep with and the woman that I would want a more meaningful relationship with, as far as physical attraction goes. The difference would be in the emotional, intellectual, and spiritual connections... obviously those would be much less important for a ONS/FB/FWB situation, which is really more of what I am seeking right now. And when I talk about physical attraction, I'm not deluded enough to think she has be the 'media-generated' standard beauty... I can recognize and appreciate the different varieties of women. I believe in a reasonable standard, in that she should be reasonably attractive and reasonably fit for me to be interested in her. As far as the alternative you speak of... If it's what I think you mean, as I said in an earlier post I tried that several years ago, and it's something I'd like to forget about, thank you. I don't know a single friend or family member who had to resort to such desparate measures... I don't know why I should have to as well.

[daphne]

Matt,

 

I have a friend that's in your former shoes. In his 30's, about 200-250 pounds overweight and a virgin. Serious kudos on losing the weight. I can't even imagine how difficult that was. Maybe like quitting smoking.

 

There are a couple of things I wanted to say, that I hope you won't take offense to. Some of the things you posted and some of the things I notice about my friend are very similar. Part of the nice guy syndrome is due to needing approval more so than the average person. I believe that when you have the extra weight, you go out of your way to people please and this is very much a turn off in the dating world. You are going to have to drop this. You don't need to bend over backwards for people to like you. There's a happy medium between pleasing yourself and others.

 

Another thing is that you mentioned you've become very resentful towards women. My friend is this way too, at times. He hasn't yet lost the weight but he doesn't understand why he can't find a girlfriend. His expectations are out of the realm of reality. I'm wondering if yours are too. My friend tends to be attracted to and pursue women who are about a third his size and very attractive. Women that he'll never get. And he gets upset that it's not fair. However, he wants a woman who's not just in shape but thin, whereas he's obese. This is a weird double standard. You mentioned that you still have the loose skin. This could be a little residual attraction buster for some women. If you want to catch up on lost time and aren't quite ready for a relationship yet, you are going to need to build up your attractiveness level inside and out before you'll get women interested. This means doing something about that and working on your confidence. It also means not taking the rejection personally. The negativity will keep you from attaining your goal.

 

You may want to get a close friend to help you on what women are in your "league" because I suspect that you are hunting outside of it. This isn't just because of the weight loss, please don't take it the wrong way. It's that you don't have the experience to know what girls are going to be attracted to you and because of this may be going after women that are unattainable to you and setting yourself up for failure. Out of the gates, you want to maximize your possibilities for success. If you do this, however, I hope you are safe and honest.

 

There was a guy I saw on tv who lost a ton of weight and is now engaged to a very attractive woman. It was an amazing story. He looked happy and confident and humbled. I doubt he let a few setbacks get in his way.

 

good luck

[mattmck]

Matt,

 

I have a friend that's in your former shoes. In his 30's, about 200-250 pounds overweight and a virgin. Serious kudos on losing the weight. I can't even imagine how difficult that was. Maybe like quitting smoking.

 

There are a couple of things I wanted to say, that I hope you won't take offense to. Some of the things you posted and some of the things I notice about my friend are very similar. Part of the nice guy syndrome is due to needing approval more so than the average person. I believe that when you have the extra weight, you go out of your way to people please and this is very much a turn off in the dating world. You are going to have to drop this. You don't need to bend over backwards for people to like you. There's a happy medium between pleasing yourself and others.

 

Another thing is that you mentioned you've become very resentful towards women. My friend is this way too, at times. He hasn't yet lost the weight but he doesn't understand why he can't find a girlfriend. His expectations are out of the realm of reality. I'm wondering if yours are too. My friend tends to be attracted to and pursue women who are about a third his size and very attractive. Women that he'll never get. And he gets upset that it's not fair. However, he wants a woman who's not just in shape but thin, whereas he's obese. This is a weird double standard. You mentioned that you still have the loose skin. This could be a little residual attraction buster for some women. If you want to catch up on lost time and aren't quite ready for a relationship yet, you are going to need to build up your attractiveness level inside and out before you'll get women interested. This means doing something about that and working on your confidence. It also means not taking the rejection personally. The negativity will keep you from attaining your goal.

 

You may want to get a close friend to help you on what women are in your "league" because I suspect that you are hunting outside of it. This isn't just because of the weight loss, please don't take it the wrong way. It's that you don't have the experience to know what girls are going to be attracted to you and because of this may be going after women that are unattainable to you and setting yourself up for failure. Out of the gates, you want to maximize your possibilities for success. If you do this, however, I hope you are safe and honest.

 

There was a guy I saw on tv who lost a ton of weight and is now engaged to a very attractive woman. It was an amazing story. He looked happy and confident and humbled. I doubt he let a few setbacks get in his way.

 

good luck

 

Thank you for your advice, Daphne. A few questions though...

 

When people address the idea that I might be seeking women that are 'out of my league' I question what that actually means; do they believe that I'm not attractive enough myself to be pursuing these women? Or is it that I don't have the necessary experience and confidence to attempt said pursuit? Or maybe that I'm placing too much emphasis on the physical and not enough on whether a woman is friendly and fun to be with, regardless of her looks. For instance, some people have suggested that I should be focusing on women that are overweight, in the belief that I would have an easier time relating with them than with a woman that never had to deal that problem. When I hear that however, I feel that they are being somewhat condescending, thinking that they know better than I what I should be attracted to. Everyone of us desires a good-looking and attractive partner, all other things being equal. I said before that if desiring certain qualities in a woman makes me shallow, I'm no more shallow than anyone else, right?

[daphne]

Matt,

 

I don't know what you look like so I don't know what your league is. It may be that you look awesome after the weight loss. However, weight loss in itself doesn't gaurantee that you're a stud. There are plenty of thin people who aren't terribly attractive to begin with.

 

It could be inexperience and lack of confidence, could be attraction based. I would say for the sake of getting out of the gate, you probably need to aim lower than you have been if you've been striking out. I suspect that you are aiming too high, from what I'm reading.

 

I don't know that you need to focus on overweight women unless you're still overweight, which it doesn't sound like.

 

Everyone's shallow. So don't be upset that women are rejecting you due to lack of attraction, when there are women you are uninterested in. It's a different side of the same coin. I get the impression that my friend, in his naivete, has a sense of entitlement to very attractive women because he's a great guy. This is the people pleaser thing. He beats his head up against a wall because he thinks that women should like him regardless of his looks, yet he likes them almost solely based on looks. It's an illogical thing that you may want to look at. Don't take it personally. There are plenty of people you wouldn't be interested in. The quicker you move on, the closer you get to finding those that are interested.

[Green]

First off don't go to bars or clubs expecting to meet women there, instead go to a bar or a club just to have fun with your friends or dance. At a club or bar it will many more times dificult to start a relationship with a girl, as compared to if you met the same girl at the supermarket or a social event like a ball game. Join a sports team you like. If your on something like a soccer team you'll have more friends there for more people to introduce you to other people or set you up on dates. Plus if you make more friends you'll have an active social calanander with parties and get togathers where a girl you have a good conversation with will be open to the idea of exchanging numbers and going out on a date. Join all the free sites and make it a game to just send interesting and flirtatious msgs based on what you read in the profile (including myspace/facebook) Have fun with what ever your doing remember life is a journey not a destination. But the first step to getting some experience will be building your social circle. Be fit because it feels great and will make dating easier. And for confidence you could join a local theatre group do a play or something. As far as the league thing goes don't wory about that, just make sure your trying things with the girls you find attractive, no reason in going out with a girl your not attracted to just because you think you can get her... though it may help you get some confidence and you may have a good time with a fat girl you didn't think you were atracted to

[mattmck]

Has anyone here had experience using Adultfriendfinder.com, and if so would they recommend it for someone like me? Thanks.

[Jilly Bean]

Has anyone here had experience using Adultfriendfinder.com, and if so would they recommend it for someone like me? Thanks.

 

Are you looking to only get laid? That's what this site is for. Casual sex, wild sex, or swinging.

[mattmck]

Are you looking to only get laid? That's what this site is for. Casual sex, wild sex, or swinging.

 

I would like to have a relationship... However I would also like get some 'sack time', at least before I hit 40. I'm really afraid of being the living embodiment of the movie. Besides, I think lack of sexual experience might sabotage any possible future relationship. Think about it, wouldn't yoube turned off by a guy my age that has never 'been there, done that'?

[Jilly Bean]

Yes, I would.

 

So, then AFF would be a way to gain some sexual experience and confidence before a relationship?

 

If thats the case, considering how emotional this all is for you, what about trying out a sexual surrogate?

 

I just fear that since the people on AFF are pretty sexual with high expectations, an experience there could go badly, and could end up being a worse thing for you.

 

Then again, 4 years I slept with a guy who had almost NO experience, and he was a great lover, because he didn't make love like a porn star, but a real man who treats a woman gently and with tenderness.

[mattmck]

Yes, I would.

 

So, then AFF would be a way to gain some sexual experience and confidence before a relationship?

 

If thats the case, considering how emotional this all is for you, what about trying out a sexual surrogate?

 

I just fear that since the people on AFF are pretty sexual with high expectations, an experience there could go badly, and could end up being a worse thing for you.

 

Then again, 4 years I slept with a guy who had almost NO experience, and he was a great lover, because he didn't make love like a porn star, but a real man who treats a woman gently and with tenderness.

 

From what I understand, the SS is pretty expensive, beyond my current finances.

 

So it begs the question; how do I get experience when women most likely want someone my age to have experience? And that doesn't even address that I can't even find someone willing to give me any kind of chance in the first place!

[Jilly Bean]

From what I understand, the SS is pretty expensive, beyond my current finances.

 

So it begs the question; how do I get experience when women most likely want someone my age to have experience? And that doesn't even address that I can't even find someone willing to give me any kind of chance in the first place!

 

Fair enough.

 

Then I think if you post honestly about your experience level, screen and connect a bit BEFORE meeting, then you should be OK.

 

I know this is going to sound chickish, but just be sure that anything you do sexually wont compromise how you feel about yourself in the long run.

 

Other option, is to hire an escort.

[mattmck]

Fair enough.

 

Then I think if you post honestly about your experience level, screen and connect a bit BEFORE meeting, then you should be OK.

 

I know this is going to sound chickish, but just be sure that anything you do sexually wont compromise how you feel about yourself in the long run.

 

Other option, is to hire an escort.

 

That's exactly why I would like to avoid the escort route. If I do hook up with someone I would like it to be with someone who's feelings are mutual to my own, even if those feeling are limited to just wanting to get laid. With a pro, it's nothing more than a job, and I wouldn't feel very satisfied knowing that.

[Jilly Bean]

That's exactly why I would like to avoid the escort route. If I do hook up with someone I would like it to be with someone who's feelings are mutual to my own, even if those feeling are limited to just wanting to get laid. With a pro, it's nothing more than a job, and I wouldn't feel very satisfied knowing that.

 

Then again, she would (potentially) be more sensitive to your situation and feelings.

 

My concern is that someone from AFF could be mean, should things not go as they anticipate. That could be soul-crushing for you, and I would hate to see that.

 

I would vote escort over AFF.

 

Then again, pop an add up on craigslist and see what kind of responses you get.

[MN randomguy]

I'm in a similar though not as severe of boat.

 

I am a 28 y/o virgin. Used to believe in the Christian thing and marriage but have recently had my first girlfriend ever. Over the last 15 years and watching all but the least desirable women my age pair off and through the first of my successes in dating, I've realized the most important thing that all women look for is confidence. How do you build confidence with anything else from when you learned to drive, or public speaking?

 

Experience.

 

As far as touch goes, escorts are dirty and expensive. But, strippers will touch you fairly extensively for $20.

 

But, the first girlfriend we dated for 2 months and she pretty much admitted that the reason we're not having sex is that I had my V card. I'm debating a remedy too.

 

Have read "How to Become the Alpha Male" too. It goes into good explanations as to why nice guys finish last.

 

let us know what happens, whatever you decide to do.

[Green]

First off you don't have to tell women your a virgin... you could even lie and say your some kind of stud. Secondly alchol goes a long way to getting laid, just take some woman you like out for drinks and then suggest going back to your place then all you have to do is get her naked. just be like "Lets go back to my place I have some music I want you to listen to" and then go back put it on and bamm. Look getting laid is like the easiest thing... its much harder to form a trusting relationship with a person... its going to be kind of a let down to have sex with some person you don't like. Your not any less of a person because your a virgin... but the fact that your so scared is your main fault... Oh and jilly bean if you really want to help you should hook this guy up with a friend of urs or something

[A.G.Doren]

You could look for woman who is turned on by the idea of teaching and moulding someone. There are women like that out there. Stop focusing on being a virgin as bad. You are that's all there is to it, figure out a way to be okay with it. cause if you're not okay with it no one else will be.

[mattmck]

Look getting laid is like the easiest thing... its much harder to form a trusting relationship with a person... its going to be kind of a let down to have sex with some person you don't like. Your not any less of a person because your a virgin... but the fact that your so scared is your main fault... Oh and jilly bean if you really want to help you should hook this guy up with a friend of urs or something

 

I'm not finding getting laid is the 'easiest thing'... Nor would I say that I'm scared either. I just am not able to close the deal, no matter how hard I try. Whether it's because I'm too focused on a particular type of girl, or I'm just not what women in general are looking for, I don't know. Lately I've been given the advise to give up on pursuing my 'ideal' and start looking at fat women, ugly women, even 'older' women... in addition to, of course, escorts/prostitutes. But when I hear this advice, it just pisses me off... I doubt many of the people offering this advice had to completely abandon their standards and/or debase themselves just get laid.

[Jilly Bean]

Matt, I don't think there is anything wrong with you physically, and I don't think you need to "debase" yourself in order to lose your virginity.

 

I DO think, however, that you are so attached to the goal that it's getting in the way of you accomplishing it.

 

I have found that staying focused and working towards goals in everything in life really and truly works EXCEPT when it comes to love, sex and relationships.

 

That being said, did you try placing a CL ad at all, or have you just been hitting the bars?

[Green]

How do you know what he looks like? Bars are a bad idea. Do you go to many parties and get togathers... those are great ways to meet women

[mattmck]

Matt, I don't think there is anything wrong with you physically, and I don't think you need to "debase" yourself in order to lose your virginity.

 

I DO think, however, that you are so attached to the goal that it's getting in the way of you accomplishing it.

 

I have found that staying focused and working towards goals in everything in life really and truly works EXCEPT when it comes to love, sex and relationships.

 

That being said, did you try placing a CL ad at all, or have you just been hitting the bars?

 

Yeah I posted on CL:

 

'Alright, here's the deal... I'm just trying to get my feet wet and experience what the dating/single life has to offer. I took myself out of the game a while back, now I'm trying to go all in. I'm not the most savvy guy out there, definitely not a 'playa'... Just an honest guy looking for someone to share some good times with. I'm totally unattached: no exs, no little ones... In other words, NO DRAMA! I enjoy being active, going out, and I can also veg out and chill as well. Life is an adventure, all I need is a travel partner.'

 

What do you think?