Wife wants space - in crisis?

[worriedmid30s]

Hi Guys,

 

I have been lurking a while but could really use some advice with my marriage.

 

About 3 weeks ago, my wife of almost 5 years told me she doesn't feel the same any more, and needs time and space. We have a 3 year old and right now, my wife feels she is Mum to 2 children, me being one.

 

Apparently my low self-esteem leads me to constantly seek her reassurance and she finds this frustrating and a real turn-off. She also told me she had been undertaking therapy for the last couple of months (without my knowledge), and recommended I should too. I love her dearly and this was a huge shock to me.

 

I think she's right, and can see what a prat I've been over an extended period. I am desperate to talk and get to the heart of the problems, but she finds this hard and says pushing her will only drive her further away.

 

In this situation, I've done the only thing I can control - work on me. I've cut down drinking, lost weight, and have started therapy. I've worked really hard on not being needy, and the results are starting to pay off in me feeling a lot better. However, I don't want to get detached from the goal of getting my wife back!

 

She is still living at home, and has said a number of times that "it'll be alright" and calls me Darling from time to time. She has also noticed that I'm in better shape. To respect her wishes, I haven't tried to talk about 'big' issues at all, but worry that the longer we don't talk, the bigger the gulf may grow.

 

We are due to go on holiday this weekend, and the weekend after that is our anniversary. I want to show her how important she and our relationship are to me, but worry about crowding her with romantic gestures or deep conversations. Am I on the right track so far, and what should I do? I can't really speak to anyone as no-one I know seems to be in the same boat.

 

Thanks

 

Worried Dad

[Geishawhelk]

It sounds to me as if she too may be going through a crisis.

Forgive me for being blunt, but inspite of all the work you have done (and well done you!) there may be another factor here.

 

She may have fallen out of love with you.

I'm not saying she doesn't love you, I'm saying there's a possibility she's not IN love with you.

When we have a problem, it's all too easy to project the reasons and causes onto the other person, and hold them "to blame" or responsible for our uncertainties.

It sounds, by your take, as if she may have had some foundation in her complaints, but the fact that she was already attending counselling means to me, that she already perceived issues within herself, regarding your relationship.

Now that you are making efforts to rectify matters, it doesn't leave her much scope for complaint.

She calls you 'darling' because she recognises your efforts. She sees that you have taken her seriously and that you are really making huge leaps and bounds in achieving what she first complained about.....This may now actually have the weird effect of making her feel more guilty.

Here's you, doing whatever you can to rectify things - and she still feels the same way.

This will confirm in her mind that the issue is not as clear-cut as she first thought it was. there are deeper issues at stake.

 

Try to keep quiet about matters, until you can talk to her on neutral teritory. Once on holiday, away from your own environment, she may feel a little bit more like opening up, and broaching the subject.

Ask her one evening, over dinner, how she's feeling about you two now....

Maybe suggest that you could tackle joint counselling if she feels it would help....

Are you taking your 3-year-old with you?

 

In any case, I would respectfully ask that you brace yourself for an unsteady time.

As a woman, I can tell you from my own experience, putting it all onto the male, denotes a dissatisfaction with things in general. Especially if the guy pulls the stops out and does his best....

We shouldn't do it, but we do, sometimes.

 

But that's just me.

[TechDude]

Apparently my low self-esteem leads me to constantly seek her reassurance and she finds this frustrating and a real turn-off.

Yes, this can be very draining.

 

I think she's right, and can see what a prat I've been over an extended period.

...

In this situation, I've done the only thing I can control - work on me. I've cut down drinking, lost weight, and have started therapy. I've worked really hard on not being needy, and the results are starting to pay off in me feeling a lot better.

Well done. Full marks for doing something positive about the situation.

 

However, I don't want to get detached from the goal of getting my wife back!

OK, word of warning here. I think you have the wrong goal. Your goal should be to improve the kind of husband you are, to be the leader that your marriage needs and to show your wife that you love her by your actions.

 

Getting your wife back depends on her and is not something you can control, nor should you try and control her response.

 

She married you, so there must have been something she saw in you. You are now taking positive action to address the behaviours that are driving her away.

 

She is still living at home, and has said a number of times that "it'll be alright" and calls me Darling from time to time. She has also noticed that I'm in better shape.

This is good - she appreciates the effort you are putting into it.

 

To respect her wishes, I haven't tried to talk about 'big' issues at all, but worry that the longer we don't talk, the bigger the gulf may grow.

I think that by taking your current course of action, you are building credibility. Yes, you will need to talk about these issues in due course. I don't think there is a need to rush it just at the moment. DO you really think the gulf is still growing or perhaps it is actually maintaining the status quo.

 

We are due to go on holiday this weekend,

Great ... make it a fun time. Just focus on enjoying your time together.

 

and the weekend after that is our anniversary. I want to show her how important she and our relationship are to me, but worry about crowding her with romantic gestures

I don't think romantic gestures are going to crowd her ... but that is your call as hopefully, you know to some degree what she likes and does not like.

 

or deep conversations.

I think you still have plenty of time for that. Do something special for your anniversary.

 

Am I on the right track so far, and what should I do? I can't really speak to anyone as no-one I know seems to be in the same boat.

Seems to me that you main concern is wanting to deal with some of the deeper issues. Talk to your therapist about this. He/she will have a fair idea of when you have worked through your personal issues and when you need to start working on relationship issues. If you are still making progress personally and are being attentive to your wife's needs, then I don't think it is going to hurt if you give it a bit of time before you get into the deep and meaningfuls.

[FlyingToaster]

I commend you for working on yourself. A lot of people in this same situation would still refuse to go into therapy. Taking care of yourself physically, mentally and emotionally is going to really help. It's going to still be a lot of work, but it will help you to discover why you are the way you are, and to learn what triggers some of your tendencies.

 

I think it's also good that your wife is seeing a therapist as well. She obviously has things to sort out as well.

 

Even though your wife doesn't want to bring things up, she has to realize that eventually you'll have to talk about things. I think right now she needs some time to sort it all out in her head, and that's where the therapy will help. Try to be patient.

 

Do you know what she means when she says she feels like she's taking care of two children? Is it that she feels like she does most of the domestic stuff along with taking care of your little one? If that's the case, try to be aware of what you could do to help out. Not to be rude, but once you do those simple tasks, don't ask for praise. I'm not assuming that you're like this, but it seems that a lot of men think that they need to be gushed over just as much for doing the dishes as they would for something difficult and out of the every day like re-finishing the floors.

 

I would also suggest that maybe at the end of the day let her know how much you appreciate what she does for you and your little one. Be sure to mention a couple of things from that day so she knows you're paying attention. Don't be too gushy, 'cause she might be uncomfortable with that at first. Also, don't expect high praises from her just yet as well. Just know that you're doing what you think should be done. I don't think she can fault you for that.

 

I do really feel though that you two eventually need to talk and get into Marriage Counselling. I would probably leave that alone for maybe another month, or discuss this with your therapist as to when a better time would be. Maybe your wife needs some time to sort things out and figure out more specifically what she feels she needs. For now, just keep working on yourself.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Take care

[worriedmid30s]

Thanks for the thoughtful words - this place is great! Ok, a bit more detail on what's happened and why.

 

I did not have the best childhood, with very controlling parents who would often belittle me. Since then, I have been successful in my career and am outgoing and sociable.

 

However, with people I care about I 'drop my guard' and can be very needy in terms of wanting to be told that I am loved, am hypersensitive to criticism and can be moody. In turn this led to me drinking heavily and making a scene, being tearful, staying out late over a prolonged period (years). Specifically to Toaster's question, yes I very much 'fished for compliments' if I did stuff around the house!

 

If anything, my wife has a very long fuse and I just wish she had told me 'straight' earlier, though in hindsight she tried subtly and I didn't pick up on it.

 

She had a difficult childhood being abandoned by her father and with a controlling stepfather. She says she started the therapy to look into this, and because "things weren't great at home". My take is that this process of self-evaluation has caused her to see me and/or my behaviour as part of the problem, when she wants me to be part of the solution. Specifically, she said she 'wants back the man she married'.

 

I have been dealing with my issues through therapy, which is pretty grim at the moment but I really believe I need to do whatever happens. Interestingly, it was my therapist who put the idea in my head that unless me and my wife talked, a canyon would open between us. The idea to get the therapist to qualify that statement is a very good one.

 

Does this help with the context? I'm happy to answer any other queries.

 

Cheers

 

PS - Geisha could you elaborate a bit on "dissatisfaction with things in general" please? Don't pull punches...

[DragonSlayer]

Wow, this is interesting and I commend you for being self-reflective...something which you most likely have not done over the years.

 

With all due respect, you sound like the male version of my wife...except she's abusive too. I understand what your wife means about raising two kids...it's not necessarily the domestic duties she's doing, but she probably feels that you are emotionally high maintenance and she has to look after you as if you were a kid. It sounds like you need a lot of affirmation, validation, compliments, etc (like a kid) in order for you to feel value in yourself. Your wife is probably independent...and although she may lack self-esteem, she doesn't go after it through external sources as you do (from her).

 

The other corollary between our marriages is that my wife is also extremely social, good at her job, friendly, etc. But with me, she's just a wounded child in constant need of attention and validation. And yes, she always wants to talk about the relationship and tends to get obsessed with "fixing it" and "making it perfect" without looking at the real root of the problem.

 

Yes, the attention you seek does drive people nuts...especially those who are independent and have their own issues to deal with. You guys are probably opposites in a lot of ways and complement each other well for that reason, but if you are the more dysfunctional one, the relationship will always go that direction. And you may not know it, but you've probably become more dependent, needy, etc the longer you've been together.

 

Let me ask you a question. Do you consider yourself a "drama king" around your wife when things get bad? Do you act out and say hurtful things, scream, call her names? Especially when you feel distance from her?

[worriedmid30s]

Hi Dragon, it's a bit hurtful to admit it, but I do see a lot similarities too. I do make a big scene when things get bad. I need to sort the problem out NOW, and try to 'bump' my wife into discussing it when I know she finds that difficult.

 

I am certainly not abusive and never scream or call her names - I do throw out things to try and make her react and enter discussion. I had said a couple of times that I was frustrated and felt we were living like flatmates, and that we had to sort things out. These had a bigger, delayed, effect than intended and my wife has pointed them back to me as part of this bombshell.

 

She also said that whilst she has grown in confidence, I seem to have become less confident, which I don't think is entirely true but may be so in the context of our relationship. I do need lots of 'stroking' which is obviously stifling her - but I can't change deep-rooted issues like this overnight and neither can your wife.

 

So, we've established the similarities in character - can I ask what you and you wife are doing to fix this so I can have some pointers?

 

Also, I'm in a quandary about physical contact - I really want to kiss and hug my wife but have been deliberately not initiating this - it feels wrong but I have a feeling it may be the right thing to do at present? My wife does still kiss me goodnight, pat my bum occasionally but that's about it.

 

Thanks again Guys

[Geishawhelk]

As a woman, I can tell you from my own experience, putting it all onto the male, denotes a dissatisfaction with things in general.

 

First of all, I need to make it clear I am not stating this IS the case with you, but I'm putting forward the illustration from my own POV and experience.

When I began to experience dissatisfaction in my relationship with my husband, first of all, i took the entire blame for my lack of feeling towards him, and decided there was something 'wrong' with me.

It took me about 15 years to discover there wasn't.

So naturally, my focus changed, and my attention turned to all the faults I perceived in him.

 

He was a slob.

He never wore anything elegant.

He didn't have a romantic bone in his body.

He took no interest in any of the things I loved, or the things I enjoyed doing.

He was boring.

He was inattentive.

He was lousy in bed.

 

But all I was doing was projecting my dissatisfaction with the relationship in general, and trying to find an essential, solid, definitive, concrete reason for why it was going nowhere.

 

Final discovery?

We'd grown apart.

 

He changed.

I changed.

He'd moved on, and so had I.

 

I'm not saying this to try to scare you, or plant a seed of doubt in your mind.

I'm just elaborating on what I said, as you asked.

I think it's very important that sometimes we ask ourselves why we feel it's so vitally important that we all work like stink to be together when sometimes, matters evolve to the extent that people are better being apart.

 

A couple I know now maintain that they get on better than ever, and are really great friends, now they're divorced.

They spend more quality time 'on their own' with the kids than they ever did in their marriage.

Again, I am not saying this will be the case with you, but I also want to add that Marriage is very much a social and cultural tradition, and something we impose upon ourselves out of conditioning and influence.

we really do tie ourselves up in knots sometimes, with all this angst and desire to 'make things work, whatever happens'....

 

She had a difficult childhood being abandoned by her father and with a controlling stepfather. She says she started the therapy to look into this, and because "things weren't great at home". My take is that this process of self-evaluation has caused her to see me and/or my behaviour as part of the problem, when she wants me to be part of the solution. Specifically, she said she 'wants back the man she married'.

 

She'll be lucky.

She's not the woman you married either.

People change.

They do.

It's natural.

It's the resistance to change, the development, the movement, that makes things difficult.

You can't turn the clock back.

You can't regenerate the same things the exact same way they were.

Nothing in life ever regresses, it can only move on.

 

It's important to deal with change and to accept it.

Sometimes the answers are so bloody obvious they smack us round the face.

Sometimes there are no answers, because we may not be asking the right questions.

 

We chase after the things we think we should want, and fail to establish whether in actual fact, they are the things we really want. .....

 

I really want to wish you all the very best, and a long, happy, fruitful and contented time together.

I really do hope it works out for you two, I truly do.

 

I just wanted to add some bits "outside the box".....

[worriedmid30s]

Hi All,

 

It's been a little while so I though I'd post an update. Ok, well I continued on the course I set and it's been eye-opening, to say the least. I've realised that therapy (for me) has been long overdue - there is some dark stuff in my childhood which has continued to cast a shadow over my personal happiness and has obviously affected my relationship, too. I'm grateful to my wife that she had the balls to tell me straight out that I needed this.

 

Similarly, I realise that my wife has personal issues which she needs to work on herself, and that it can't be 'all my fault', even if she has made it out to be at times. Basically, I'm rebuilding my approach to life, one day at a time, and though it seems odd to say it the question of whether my marriage survives or not is no longer paramount. I hope it does and am working to be the cracking husband I know I can, but I also have to be happy with who I am and recognise MY needs too.

 

I have had a 'wobble' where I tried to force a heavy conversation at an inappropriate time, and was rewarded with some more home truths which were very hurtful - I have to say that I responded in kind. In fact, we almost didn't go on holiday, but I insisted we go and have a fun time, and you know what, we did! Some of the affection seems to be returning, and on our anniversary, my wife thanked me for a nice holiday, which meant a lot to me.

 

I still have ups and downs but feel I am making progress. The major issue is being clingy, and I see now how this is a major turnoff, but also how it makes me unhappy - if 100% of my happiness and self worth is based on another person's reactions, that's no stable basis for my life and relationships in general. We'll see what happens from here on...

[Mr. Lucky]

Hi All,

 

It's been a little while so I though I'd post an update. Ok, well I continued on the course I set and it's been eye-opening, to say the least. I've realised that therapy (for me) has been long overdue - there is some dark stuff in my childhood which has continued to cast a shadow over my personal happiness and has obviously affected my relationship, too. I'm grateful to my wife that she had the balls to tell me straight out that I needed this.

 

Similarly, I realise that my wife has personal issues which she needs to work on herself, and that it can't be 'all my fault', even if she has made it out to be at times. Basically, I'm rebuilding my approach to life, one day at a time, and though it seems odd to say it the question of whether my marriage survives or not is no longer paramount. I hope it does and am working to be the cracking husband I know I can, but I also have to be happy with who I am and recognise MY needs too.

 

I have had a 'wobble' where I tried to force a heavy conversation at an inappropriate time, and was rewarded with some more home truths which were very hurtful - I have to say that I responded in kind. In fact, we almost didn't go on holiday, but I insisted we go and have a fun time, and you know what, we did! Some of the affection seems to be returning, and on our anniversary, my wife thanked me for a nice holiday, which meant a lot to me.

 

I still have ups and downs but feel I am making progress. The major issue is being clingy, and I see now how this is a major turnoff, but also how it makes me unhappy - if 100% of my happiness and self worth is based on another person's reactions, that's no stable basis for my life and relationships in general. We'll see what happens from here on...

Congratulations, it seems you've made a ton of difficult progress. I am curious as to what your wife's ongoing reaction to your changes has been ?

 

Mr. Lucky

[Darth Vader]

Very good on making progress, but, I guess I gotta be the one to ask, um, she said that "she needs time and space"? I wonder who the new guy is. Most women, not all, say that they "need space" while banging another guy on the side. I hope I'm not right, but, I've seen this posted on these forums several times.............

[worriedmid30s]

Congratulations, it seems you've made a ton of difficult progress. I am curious as to what your wife's ongoing reaction to your changes has been ?

 

Mr. Lucky

 

She hasn't really said anything, but seems a bit wrong-footed as it's clear I'm gradually growing in strength. It takes 2 to tango as they say, and she's been used to playing 'Mum' with me doting on her - I'm responding cooly and making it clear that I don't need her advice/permission on anything. She does pay me compliments, which I have learnt to take.

 

I asked her straight out if she was attached to anyone else when we were last venting. She seemed pretty shocked by the suggestion and denied it. Of course you can never be 100% sure, but in this case I don't see any evidence of it.

 

Cheers

[Walk]

She hasn't really said anything, but seems a bit wrong-footed as it's clear I'm gradually growing in strength.

 

What does 'a bit wrong-footed' mean? (sorry, haven't heard this expression before)

[worriedmid30s]

What does 'a bit wrong-footed' mean? (sorry, haven't heard this expression before)

 

Hey no problem, I should clarify. I'm trying to say caught off balance; she's used to saying or doing something and me responding in a particular (needy) way. I'm not responding accoridng to type, so I can tell it's a bit of a surprise for her.

 

At present, I'm not sure whether it's a good or bad thing for our relationship, but I know it's a good thing for my head.

 

Hope this helps,

[Mr. Lucky]

It takes 2 to tango as they say, and she's been used to playing 'Mum' with me doting on her - I'm responding cooly and making it clear that I don't need her advice/permission on anything. She does pay me compliments, which I have learnt to take.

Obviously, your new-found confidence has value both ways, either in a life with her or without her. Keep it up!

 

Mr. Lucky

[worriedmid30s]

Hi All,

 

It's been a while since I posted with my original issue, and a lot has changed.

 

Most of this has been to do with me - I've found the personal therapy immensely helpful for me to help with dealing with my past, developing self-esteem and respect and enjoying living in the moment.

 

It's also been magical how my relationships with people around me have changed - because I am feeling good about myself (and have lost a lot of weight, dress sharply etc), people view me in a completely different light, and I genuinely enjoy life.

 

So far, so good eh? But the issue of my marriage remains really tough. My wife and I have started MC, and I'm shocked by the anger with which she attacks me in it. I have been far from the good husband, but it is like my wife is blaming EVERYTHING that's wrong in her life on me.

 

She even said she had hated me and had zero respect for me, which was quite shocking as I have never hated anyone, least of all my life partner. My reaction to this is to cut myself off from the hurt and I have thought more seriously than ever about calling it a day. Yet when I suggested dviorce to my wife, she says she wants me to stay and that she loves me. At the moment, I don't know how I feel, to be honest.

 

It's obvious that there is a lot more going on with my wife personally than 'simple' dissatisfaction with me and our marriage. In any case, I think we're at a pivotal point in proceedings, and I know that I can't live the life I used to or have the relationship we had. I hope that the relationship can grow and be rebuilt in the light of the new people we have become, but it seems like and awful long road sometimes.

 

Cheers for now...

[jwi71]

So far, so good eh? But the issue of my marriage remains really tough. My wife and I have started MC, and I'm shocked by the anger with which she attacks me in it. I have been far from the good husband, but it is like my wife is blaming EVERYTHING that's wrong in her life on me.

 

She even said she had hated me and had zero respect for me, which was quite shocking as I have never hated anyone, least of all my life partner. My reaction to this is to cut myself off from the hurt and I have thought more seriously than ever about calling it a day. Yet when I suggested dviorce to my wife, she says she wants me to stay and that she loves me. At the moment, I don't know how I feel, to be honest.

 

It's obvious that there is a lot more going on with my wife personally than 'simple' dissatisfaction with me and our marriage. In any case, I think we're at a pivotal point in proceedings, and I know that I can't live the life I used to or have the relationship we had. I hope that the relationship can grow and be rebuilt in the light of the new people we have become, but it seems like and awful long road sometimes.

 

Revelations in MC an be tough. My W and I are in it and she had some of the same vitriol for me. Imagine my surprise - after all I am the victim (she had an A), how could I be responsible? How can she be angry and upset at me?

 

I was shocked, appalled, offended, angry, yadda yadda yadda.

 

Then I realized her perceptions were as valid as my own. I realized that she has a right to feel like that. Agree or not it didn't matter - it was her feelings. Feelings I helped create. Once I accepted that, we could make progress. And we did. We are.

 

I know exactly how you felt and maybe still feel. Its shocking. Its eye opening. Its frightening. Listen to what she says. Listen to her needs. And meet them. It can be done.

 

For my W and I, we seem to move in steps. Not much progress for a few weeks then BAM - we elevate, we connect, we understand, we learn. We reach a higher level. Yes, we have had a few setbacks...a few backwards steps. Nothing "major". All understandable. All "fixable".

 

Our fights are fewer and less intense. We talk better. I listen better.

 

It can be done. Keep it up! Hard at times but is anything easy really worth having (besides the lottery )...

[imagine]

Hey Wm30,

 

I wouldn't worry about the vitriol in her attacks. I suspect that she is venting. Nevertheless, take note of the content. Don't react. Act on those points that are valid .

 

I would like to know what the IC is feeding her. I've learned through posters here that IC's are about making their customer satisfied. Possibly at the expense of a marriage.

[whichwayisup]

and I'm shocked by the anger with which she attacks me in it. I have been far from the good husband, but it is like my wife is blaming EVERYTHING that's wrong in her life on me.

 

She's probably had many years of resentments built up inside of her and it's coming out now. That's a good thing because before things were buried.