Dark-N-Romantic Posted July 3, 2008 Share Posted July 3, 2008 This is what bothers me about couples who get married and then out of nowhere one or both partners wants to change the dynamics of the marriage and the other person clearly knows this is not what they got married for. Your husband knew he was bisexual WELL before he was married to you. Yes, he might of fought off his urges for all these years because of his love for you, but secertly he was letting time and your acceptance of you to settle in before he sprung his trap. Knowing that with the years of commitment, it would be harder for you to go "OH HELL NO!" This was something he should of brought up with you before you to got serious, let alone married. This was something that you two should of hatched out a long time ago. I mean if a couple is open to it and they each know they are open to it before hand, good to go, disturbing and disgusting some times, but good to go. Not this b.s. timing when you two are entwine too deeply to just simply walk away. While I have not read your complete message, I'd still want to say this...There is a big difference of compromise and submittance because we love our spouse. But, even those must have their limits. Just because he wants the marriage to be open does not mean you have to give in. There has to be a certain level of self-love to go, I love you baby, but no I can't deal with this and won't allow this in OUR marriage/relationship. It is not like he is trying to ask you to try something kinky like bondage or vampirism, he is talking about something that could lead to dangers to himself and you (like HIV/AIDS or a psychopath who may hurt either one of you). This is something that will forever redefine your sex life, your marriage, and selves as individuals. So, I suggest you think LONG AND HARD (no pun intended) on this matter AND DON'T DO ANYTHING YOU IN YOU HEART OF HEARTS DON'T WANT TO DO. Love is worth everything, but it is not worth anything. DNR Link to post Share on other sites
GreenX Posted July 3, 2008 Share Posted July 3, 2008 This is what bothers me about couples who get married and then out of nowhere one or both partners wants to change the dynamics of the marriage and the other person clearly knows this is not what they got married for. Your husband knew he was bisexual WELL before he was married to you. Yes, he might of fought off his urges for all these years because of his love for you, but secertly he was letting time and your acceptance of you to settle in before he sprung his trap. Knowing that with the years of commitment, it would be harder for you to go "OH HELL NO!" This was something he should of brought up with you before you to got serious, let alone married. This was something that you two should of hatched out a long time ago. I mean if a couple is open to it and they each know they are open to it before hand, good to go, disturbing and disgusting some times, but good to go. Not this b.s. timing when you two are entwine too deeply to just simply walk away. While I have not read your complete message, I'd still want to say this...There is a big difference of compromise and submittance because we love our spouse. But, even those must have their limits. Just because he wants the marriage to be open does not mean you have to give in. There has to be a certain level of self-love to go, I love you baby, but no I can't deal with this and won't allow this in OUR marriage/relationship. It is not like he is trying to ask you to try something kinky like bondage or vampirism, he is talking about something that could lead to dangers to himself and you (like HIV/AIDS or a psychopath who may hurt either one of you). This is something that will forever redefine your sex life, your marriage, and selves as individuals. So, I suggest you think LONG AND HARD (no pun intended) on this matter AND DON'T DO ANYTHING YOU IN YOU HEART OF HEARTS DON'T WANT TO DO. Love is worth everything, but it is not worth anything. DNR I agree 100%. Another thing to think about. If for whatever reason you should happen to allow him to do this try to imagine what your thought process will be like each and everytime you two make love after he has his fling. (That is of course if you ever do again...) It will not only tear you up inside but it will drastically change your love making forever. If I were in your shoes I would leave. If I wasn't enough for my husband that he felt he had to "get some" elsewhere, regardless of his reasoning, I wouldn't want to stay in that situation. It sounds easier said than done, but honestly, how could you be with someone who doesn't ONLY want you, 100% of the time? Link to post Share on other sites
vedderbetter Posted July 3, 2008 Share Posted July 3, 2008 Maybe it's because of the penetration issue or the hypersexualization of the female form in our society, but IMO, I have a hard time buying bisexuality in men. For women, bisexuality seems totally plausible because women are smooth and soft and nice to look at naked, I mean everyone loves a hot chick, but two football buddies who go bareback every Saturday after the game and then go home to their wives like nothing happened? GAY! I don't know a single hetro man who has ever said to me "You know what I'm going to do this week? I'm going to go have a ton of hardcore gay sex with a friend of mine because I need to get my love of penis out my system". The only man who told me that he was "curious" about other men finally came out of the closet a few years ago and has never been happier. Sometimes it's easier to say "I'm bisexual" (meaning I'm still within the cultural norm because I will continue to have sex with women while hiding/trying to manage my sexual impluses for other men) than just flat out saying "I'm gay" (meaning I understand and accept that my sexuality will be viewed as deviant and immoral by large groups of my fellow citizens). My heart breaks for you. You should get a divorce. You deserve a man worships you as the focus point of his sexual desire. Link to post Share on other sites
angie2443 Posted July 3, 2008 Share Posted July 3, 2008 Maybe it's because of the penetration issue or the hypersexualization of the female form in our society, but IMO, I have a hard time buying bisexuality in men. For women, bisexuality seems totally plausible because women are smooth and soft and nice to look at naked, I mean everyone loves a hot chick, but two football buddies who go bareback every Saturday after the game and then go home to their wives like nothing happened? GAY! . Sorry, but this sounds totally idiodic to me. Yes, females in this society are hypersexualized, but that doesn't mean that a female born as heterosexual is going want to dive between another woman's legs just because she has the sexuality of women shoved down her throat almost from the time she is born. Again, though, this twisted fantasy works well for the men. Link to post Share on other sites
love4ever Posted July 6, 2008 Share Posted July 6, 2008 Bieng bisexual does not give you special privileges to cheat. Heterosexual people also have urges and become attracted to other people. You either respect your vowels, or be upfront and ask for a divorce. I haven't read all the posts. But I agree with this exactly. She didn't sign up for this during the beginning of the marriage so I don't believe he should be allowed to indulge now. Tell him he needs to reevaluate his priorities. Link to post Share on other sites
White Flower Posted July 6, 2008 Share Posted July 6, 2008 This is a difficult situation. That being said, all the usual cavets about monogamy should apply. If your husband wants to have sex with another person he needs to take steps to end the marriage first, unless of course you are willing to "share". Read D-lish's comments carefully. The biggest problem here seems to stem from the fact that you willingly married a part time homosexual. That's a decision that seems to be coming home now with problems you should have been able to foresee. It comes down to Value, and respect. Not value as in "family values" which is just a political buzz, it's about the value your H puts on you and your relationship. Respect fits in there too. The fact that your H doesen't respect the marriage enough to be faithful, or to end it also speeks volumes. Good Luck. This raises the argument that an open marriage can or cannot be respectful. If both parties agree and are fulfilled I am sure it can be respectful. But D-Lish makes a very strong point. Your H probably knows that heterosexual sex is far safer than homosexual sex. Chances are that you will never bring him a disease but the reverse is not true. You will be at risk. I think the only upside to your H's proposal is that first he was honest and up front. At least he did not go behind your back. Another thing is that homosexual husbands tend to be much more compassionate during a divorce (should that be in your future). They help out with the children and tend to offer more in the way of finances. I guess they tend to feel guilty for turning their wive's world upside down with something they never saw coming. But in your case, you had a clue before you got married, even though he said that was all behind him. Best wishes. Link to post Share on other sites
Author rap8691 Posted July 13, 2008 Author Share Posted July 13, 2008 Well the trip is still taking place at the end of this week. We've had a lot of emotional conversations and used up about every bit of energy I have. He has reiterated that he and his friend want to have a sexual experience on this trip. I told him that I am not to a point of acceptance of that. I don't know that I will ever be there. He said that it won't happen then and I do believe him. But I know that this issue isn't over and that it will come back again sometime. And he says that it will as well. I'll still try to have an open mind about it, but right now I just want our relationship to be stronger and keep focusing on that. Maybe I'm putting off the inevitable. And wasting a lot on something that can't be. I don't know. It's the solution for now - we'll see. But if anyone has gone from a monogamous relationship with someone to an open one with the same partner, please give me direct insight into how that went. I read somewhere that possibly the only way to make that transition is for both people to be interested in someone else at the same time and that then it's easier. Well unless I ignore that I am married and took vows, then it's going to be hard to be interested in someone else like that. And then what - the interests in others continue and we end up in the situations noted throughout this post. I think it's a no-win situation, except for him. Link to post Share on other sites
Author rap8691 Posted July 13, 2008 Author Share Posted July 13, 2008 Well the trip is still taking place at the end of this week. We've had a lot of emotional conversations and used up about every bit of energy I have. He has reiterated that he and his friend want to have a sexual experience on this trip. I told him that I am not to a point of acceptance of that. I don't know that I will ever be there. He said that it won't happen then and I do believe him. But I know that this issue isn't over and that it will come back again sometime. And he says that it will as well. I'll still try to have an open mind about it, but right now I just want our relationship to be stronger and keep focusing on that. Maybe I'm putting off the inevitable. And wasting a lot on something that can't be. I don't know. It's the solution for now - we'll see. But if anyone has gone from a monogamous relationship with someone to an open one with the same partner, please give me direct insight into how that went. I read somewhere that possibly the only way to make that transition is for both people to be interested in someone else at the same time and that then it's easier. Well unless I ignore that I am married and took vows, then it's going to be hard to be interested in someone else like that. And then what - the interests in others continue and we end up in the situations noted throughout this post. I think it's a no-win situation, except for him. Link to post Share on other sites
Angel1111 Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 Tell him it's fine with you if he sleeps with another man, and then hand him the divorce papers. This is that accountability topic that keeps coming up - how could you possibly be suprised that this has become an issue? You knew he was bi-sexual before you married him. When he told you that it wouldn't be an issue, I'm sure he meant it. But most people don't know their own minds so it's a good idea to take people's words with a grain of salt. I can assure you that if you tell him that you're not ok with this and he still goes on the trip, he'll have sex with this guy. As sad as it is, it's time to make an exit from this marriage. Link to post Share on other sites
Angel1111 Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 I haven't read all the posts. But I agree with this exactly. She didn't sign up for this during the beginning of the marriage so I don't believe he should be allowed to indulge now. Tell him he needs to reevaluate his priorities. I think he knows exactly where his priorities are because I'm certain that if she doesn't agree to this ridiculous proposition, then he'll do it anyway and leave her. Link to post Share on other sites
angie2443 Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 I forgot if children were involved. If there are none, what is the point of this marriage? Even if you do have children, what is the point of this marriage? What is this marraige doing to fullfill you? Link to post Share on other sites
angie2443 Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 But D-Lish makes a very strong point. Your H probably knows that heterosexual sex is far safer than homosexual sex. Chances are that you will never bring him a disease but the reverse is not true. You will be at risk. I'm assuming that you guys are talking about anal sex when you say this. Straight people often have anal sex to, and they spread STD's around also. I don't know where people get the idea that sex between heterosexaul poses little if no danger. Everyone needs to be careful. Link to post Share on other sites
Angel1111 Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 I forgot if children were involved. If there are none, what is the point of this marriage? Even if you do have children, what is the point of this marriage? What is this marraige doing to fullfill you? I don't think they have any children. Link to post Share on other sites
Author rap8691 Posted July 14, 2008 Author Share Posted July 14, 2008 There are no kids. And he said he'd wear a condom. It's completely planned out in his mind, and now I guess I've thrown a kink in it all by telling him I am not accepting of what he plans to do while on this trip. Things were good this weekend and this morning he seemed down so I asked why and he said it's the trip. Well that makes two of us. I don't know if he's down because he's rethinking about what this is causing between us or if it's because he can't play with his friend. How did we ever get to this point? Link to post Share on other sites
Author rap8691 Posted July 14, 2008 Author Share Posted July 14, 2008 There are no kids. And he said he'd wear a condom. It's completely planned out in his mind, and now I guess I've thrown a kink in it all by telling him I am not accepting of what he plans to do while on this trip. Things were good this weekend and this morning he seemed down so I asked why and he said it's the trip. Well that makes two of us. I don't know if he's down because he's rethinking about what this is causing between us or if it's because he can't play with his friend. How did we ever get to this point? Link to post Share on other sites
angie2443 Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 There are no kids. And he said he'd wear a condom. It's completely planned out in his mind, and now I guess I've thrown a kink in it all by telling him I am not accepting of what he plans to do while on this trip. Things were good this weekend and this morning he seemed down so I asked why and he said it's the trip. Well that makes two of us. I don't know if he's down because he's rethinking about what this is causing between us or if it's because he can't play with his friend. How did we ever get to this point? I'll ask again, what are you getting out of this relationship? It seems like there is a lack of concern for your feelings here and there may be other issues. How is your relationship otherwise? Link to post Share on other sites
Author rap8691 Posted July 15, 2008 Author Share Posted July 15, 2008 Well until just a few months ago it was a great relationship. Besides our sex life slacking off, everything else has been very good. We enjoy being with each other yet are open to each other having time with other friends - even though we share most of those friendships, but respect each other's time apart (such as golf outings, not trips without each other). We are in the same profession so we're often able to come home and download our days with each other with someone who can offer insight and support. We socialize frequently and never have issues being affectionate with each other in front of others. I think that while our sex life was on the decline (due to some health issues, overworked/tired, age, etc) a fantasy in his mind grew into something more real for him and now he's trying to have both. Up until now he's always been more than concerned for my feelings, opinions, etc. It's like now I am being unfair to him for not letting him go play. It's just bizarre to me! Link to post Share on other sites
angie2443 Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 I think you guys need to seek MC. Something is going on with your husband. Could you be more specific about the decline of your sex life? How many hours are you guys working? What medical issues do you have? I'm not trying to be nosy, it's just hard to figure out what's going on without more clues. Regardless, don't agree to this open marriage idea of his. If he really has to be with someone else, get divorced. Be upfront with this. Right now, he is asking permission to deeply hurt you. Don't give it to him. Link to post Share on other sites
MrsHellnofires Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 Nope, I have bi-tendancies and am certainly not gay. I've been with a few women but still wouldn't even term myself bi. I see it as being much different with men. I think with bi-men it's more of an inner struggle against their own guilt about being gay... so they date women to calm that side of them and appease societal impositions. Remember- we all learn from a very young age::: Man+Woman. Imagine growing up with that inner struggle. Most people will hide it, or mask it at the very least. Women being bi is viewed as "sexy" by the media... There is something about the notion of bi-sexuality that is romantic.... But it's more female based than male based. I don't believe that bi-women and bi-men function the same- anymore than men vs women do. I think most bi-men have tricked themselves into believing they are bi to achieve some inner peace with regard to being gay. That's just my opinion. I think many bi-men will function as such their whole lives. I dated a guy who admitted he had had a couple gay experiences... and I truly believe he was gay underneath it all. Just my opinion on the matter. I still think the OP is dealing with a gay man masking as a bi-sexual. But that's only from what little info I have from her post. sure, but if you are already conceding to the fact that it IS possible for a woman to be bi, then it sure is possible for a man too. your explanation might be right for some, but not all. or i could say that you and all women are not really "bi".. you just tried women a few times because society deems it as sexy, if our actions are really only determined by society alone in these issues. hey, if you can easily trick yourself into being sexually attracted to another sex, why be gay at all if it is so shunned? the problem is though these men struggle, deep down they do know what they are, even if hiding in a heterosexual relationship for years; it takes time to realize that they just cannot keep up with the facade anymore, yet some still do in fear. if anything, i'd think it is more about just using the term to make yourself seem more acceptable. i also think it's kind of ridiculous that some experimentation either way and you label someone "gay"... yet you refuse to label yourself the same. what's interesting to note is that it seems society and the media have actually influenced YOUR thinking about the subject which is why you view both sexes so differently in this regard. Now an example of a famous "bi" man is Andy Dick. He was recently seen groping and sexually assaulting a 17 year old.. lifted up her shirt and bra and started sucking her breasts... which is why he was arrested.. but he was also seen kissing men too that night or a few nights prior.. forgot.. being so messed up, I really doubt he cared at that point to please anybody but himself. Link to post Share on other sites
angie2443 Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 you just tried women a few times because society deems it as sexy, I've seen many woman, usually very young woman, pretend to be into other girls to get a man's attention. For instance, at a bar, I've seen drunk girls kiss or fondle each other in front of the guys while the guys hooted and hollered. These woman would not even look at another female if a guy wasn't there. I find this behavior disgusting and desperate. I do not find bi or homosexual interactions disgusting. This is a completely differant thing. It's the girls who are so desperate for attention that they'd do something so completely against their nature to please the guys that makes my stomach turn. Link to post Share on other sites
White Flower Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 I'm assuming that you guys are talking about anal sex when you say this. Straight people often have anal sex to, and they spread STD's around also. I don't know where people get the idea that sex between heterosexaul poses little if no danger. Everyone needs to be careful. True enough. But many straight couples who have anal sex keep it within the marriage. And statistically, gay men tend to have higher incidence of infection than lesbian and straight people. The OP is at risk because he wants to go outside the marriage for gay sex and come back in for heterosexual sex with her. Link to post Share on other sites
White Flower Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 I've seen many woman, usually very young woman, pretend to be into other girls to get a man's attention. For instance, at a bar, I've seen drunk girls kiss or fondle each other in front of the guys while the guys hooted and hollered. These woman would not even look at another female if a guy wasn't there. I find this behavior disgusting and desperate. I do not find bi or homosexual interactions disgusting. This is a completely differant thing. It's the girls who are so desperate for attention that they'd do something so completely against their nature to please the guys that makes my stomach turn. I definitely agree with you here. This speaks to severe desperation. Link to post Share on other sites
angie2443 Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 True enough. But many straight couples who have anal sex keep it within the marriage. And statistically, gay men tend to have higher incidence of infection than lesbian and straight people. The OP is at risk because he wants to go outside the marriage for gay sex and come back in for heterosexual sex with her. I guess the bottem line is that OP's husband want sex outside of the marriage and this is going to harm the OP on an emotional level and maybe on a physical level. This is why I strongly suggest to her that she seek some form of counseling. She should definalely not agree to go along with something that she is so unconfortable with. This is a sure fire way to kill off her sense of self worth. Link to post Share on other sites
angie2443 Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 I definitely agree with you here. This speaks to severe desperation. I think this is more likely to happen with young women, 15-24 or so. I never did the girl on girl thing to get a guys attention, but I did other things that make me cringe when I think about it. So many young girls place so much of their self worth in how attractive they are to men that they loose sight of who they are. I think, that for most of them, this changes as they grow older and grow more confidant. Link to post Share on other sites
White Flower Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 I think this is more likely to happen with young women, 15-24 or so. I never did the girl on girl thing to get a guys attention, but I did other things that make me cringe when I think about it. So many young girls place so much of their self worth in how attractive they are to men that they loose sight of who they are. I think, that for most of them, this changes as they grow older and grow more confidant. This is precisely why I like to tell young women to hold off on that kind of thing and think about it. Don't look so desperate to a guy. He's never going to be impressed with those kind of tactics. He'll say, 'Wow, look at that piece of meat!', but he'll never say, 'Now that is a real real class act!' Link to post Share on other sites
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