Is this an emotional affair?

[Owl]

To add to Taylor's thoughts...it sounds like a time to rebuild your relationship with her.

 

Get a copy of "His Needs/Her Needs" by Willard Harley.

 

Also check out "20 (Surprisingly Simple) Rules and Tools for a Great Marriage" by Dr Steve Stephens.

 

Both of these can give you some great guidelines to build your NEW relationship with her on.

[taylor]

Just a couple remarks about the book, "His Needs/Her Needs" that OWL recommended.

 

The book is an easy read and gets down to the basics of what makes and keeps a marriage strong. It's a good book.

 

The only thing I didn't care for was how he divided the needs into male needs and female needs. He did add a disclaimer that his division was "generally speaking" and that either gender can desire needs from either category. But when he discusses each need, he does so in gender specific terms.

 

It's important to discuss each of these 10 needs in the context of your own personal relationship/marriage and in terms of each one's individual needs, regardless of gender.

 

My husband and I read the book separately and made a list of our top 5 needs individually. Three of my needs came from the male category and he had 2 from the female category. We discussed them all in terms of our own personal needs as people, not so much as male and female.

 

I might add, we were surprised that we listed some of the same needs lacking in our marriage. AAhh..we were on the same page after all..and didn't know it. It was a good feeling.

 

The book spearheaded several long discussions about our marriage and forced us to take a deeper look at what our most important needs were and what needs we were not providing (or providing well) to each other...and why.

 

It's a great book...wonderful for kickstarting communication.

 

One more comment...while it's important to recognize each other's needs..it's not enough...you have to be willing to take action to meet those needs. That's the hard part. Both my husband and I have had to step out of the box...step out of our comfort zone to meet each other's needs. It's scary, it's uncomfortable at first. But now we are starting to enjoy it. We are both becoming "new" people on a "new" adventure.

 

Clean Slate, if you and your girlfriend do decide to work on the relationship, I also recommend this book. OWL recommended it to me and it has helped immensely.

[clean_slate]

We had a long talk with each other yesterday afternoon. I told her everything that was on my mind, and she told me everything that was on hers. I found out some important information about why this entire mess occurred. She says that she feels like she's spreading herself thin- that's the main reason she "needs time." She is still concerned for this other guy's marriage and life, which bothers me a lot. But, I've learned that my girlfriend simply gets way too involved emotionally with other people. Even other women. She has some motherly instinct to "care" for people she knows when they are going through rough times. She does this in spite of not giving herself any time, space, or thought. She's smothering herself in other people's woes, essentially. Not good. Her head is a complete mess right now, and that's why she needs time to think.

 

I made it clear to her during our talk that she needs to learn to prioritize. Not everyone is deserving of the same care. First and foremost, you give your time, energy, and love to family and your significant other. "Friends" get whatever else is leftover (unless these are extremely close friends you've known forever). She has been disregarding my feelings for a while in favor of the "new" guys who have issues to resolve. Those issues should not be of any concern to her.

 

The fact that she hasn't completely removed this a**hole emotional affair guy from her mind really angers and saddens me. I asked her if she loved him and her response was "I don't think so." Again, not the answer I was looking for. We've made some progress over the last couple days, but things are still bad. I'm not sure how much time I can devote to someone who obviously isn't fully, 100% in love with me. I told her I would attempt to win her over again, as I did over a year ago. But is that truly worth my time? Won't something like this happen again in a few months?

[Owl]

What you're dealing with is exactly what led my wife to HER emotional affair.

 

The difference is that my wife finally DID learn that there have to be boundaries..."layers" if you will in levels of relationships. The CLOSEST relationship should be your spouse. Next would be immediate family, then friends and remote family.

 

If she can't "get" that...you're never going to be in a good relationship with her.

 

How many times do you have to "win her back"? How many times are you WILLING to keep doing this?

 

From my perspective...she's going to be willing to drag you through this for as long as you LET her do so...if you want to see something change, you're going to have to MAKE it change.

[jon01]

Clean_slate - I know you won't like the sound of this, but you should just distance yourself from her and start accepting the fact that you will be leaving her. Then leave her. She's not your wife or fiance yet, and it's better that way. Stop trying to win her over, she's not worth it anymore. I eventually accepted this reality with my own wife. For the first few months after we separated, I was a wreck. But after repeatably trying to win her back with no success, I just had enough and my desire for her started to evaporate. You don't need this crap my friend.

[taylor]

We had a long talk with each other yesterday afternoon. I told her everything that was on my mind, and she told me everything that was on hers. I found out some important information about why this entire mess occurred. She says that she feels like she's spreading herself thin- that's the main reason she "needs time." She is still concerned for this other guy's marriage and life, which bothers me a lot. But, I've learned that my girlfriend simply gets way too involved emotionally with other people. Even other women. She has some motherly instinct to "care" for people she knows when they are going through rough times. She does this in spite of not giving herself any time, space, or thought. She's smothering herself in other people's woes, essentially. Not good. Her head is a complete mess right now, and that's why she needs time to think.

 

Clean Slate,

 

My heart started to race when I read this post. Your girlfriend is walking in the same shoes I did when I had an EA with a co-worker. And she has fallen in the same emotional trap I did.

 

Your girlfriend, like me, has a "helper" personality. We are drawn to those with "sympathy" personalities...those who are needy..who scream "help me...save me."

 

As helpers, we enjoy being there for people, listening to them, lending them a shoulder to cry on, doing whatever we can to make them feel better about themselves, sort themselves out, assist with their problem, lend a helping hand.

 

As helpers, we are especially drawn to the neediest of needy. The underdog. The weak, the helpless, those that are struggling, those that got tough breaks in life...the desperate, the destitute.

 

"Sympathy" personalities zoom in on "helper" personalities. We are easy to spot. We can't say no. We have big hearts. They know they can motivate us. They are hurting. They know we can help. It's our specialty.

 

"Helper" personalities are also drawn to "sympathy" personalities. We get great pleasure out of taking care of others..knowing we can make an impact on their lives. We build self-esteem and gain confidence when we know we are able to "save" someone...brighten their lives.

 

The "helper" and the one being helped become codependent upon each other. The bond is hard to break.

 

This is the hazard of being a "helper" person. We become way too emotionally involved with the lives of others. We can become so emotionally involved..so emotionally invested..that we begin to have feelings for the person we are helping. We open our hearts to them. We begin to think what they think, feel what they feel. It's called empathy. But that's where we get in trouble.

 

The problem is we can get so emotionally involved with that person that we begin to feel "one" with him. The more we do... the more we give..the stronger our feelings get for that person...until we feel we are falling in love. The connection is powerful. We cross the line emotionally way before we realize it and way after it causes damage to our primary relationship with our SO.

 

And sexual attraction between the helper and the one being helped pulls the whole EA together.

 

 

I made it clear to her during our talk that she needs to learn to prioritize. Not everyone is deserving of the same care. First and foremost, you give your time, energy, and love to family and your significant other. "Friends" get whatever else is leftover (unless these are extremely close friends you've known forever). She has been disregarding my feelings for a while in favor of the "new" guys who have issues to resolve. Those issues should not be of any concern to her.

 

Your girlfriend is in an EA with this guy. She has turned her focus from you to him. She is investing time and energy into their relationship at the expense of yours. She may be replacing you with him in her heart. If you are feeling her withdraw/distance/disconnect from you, this is why.

 

 

 

The fact that she hasn't completely removed this a**hole emotional affair guy from her mind really angers and saddens me. I asked her if she loved him and her response was "I don't think so." Again, not the answer I was looking for.

 

No, very bad answer on her part. She will not be able to break the emotional connection she has with this guy unless she severs all ties with him. She needs to go NC.

 

When my EA ended, I wrote in my journal, "I lost my only source of happiness." Scary isn't it? The connection EA affair partners make is a powerful one. It takes drastic measures to break it.

 

We've made some progress over the last couple days, but things are still bad. I'm not sure how much time I can devote to someone who obviously isn't fully, 100% in love with me. I told her I would attempt to win her over again, as I did over a year ago. But is that truly worth my time? Won't something like this happen again in a few months?

 

Yes, you do need to decide how much time to give her and let her know how much time you will give her. Don't let her string you along. The longer she does, the more detrimental it will be to your emotional well-being.

 

No, you do not need to win her back. She knows you and knows what you have to offer. She has a decision to make. She either wants your relationship or she doesn't. AGAIN, you decide how much time she has to decide.

 

Yes, something like this can happen again in a few months, especially if your gf doesn't address the reason why she allowed herself to fall in love with another man. I say "allow" because love is a decision you decide to make. It doesn't just happen.

[TheSilentType]

How old are you guys btw? How old is this married guy?

[clean_slate]

How old are you guys btw? How old is this married guy?

 

My girlfriend and I are both 24. The married guy is 29.

[clean_slate]

No, you do not need to win her back. She knows you and knows what you have to offer. She has a decision to make. She either wants your relationship or she doesn't. AGAIN, you decide how much time she has to decide.

 

In her mind, that decision has already been made. She has told both guys to back off and made it clear (especially to the guy who invited her to Europe) that she is with me, and that our relationship is a very serious one. She keeps telling me how much she loves me. She keeps telling me that she wants to be with me forever. And she keeps telling me that she's "fighting" to make sure our relationship heals and I stay with her. Right now I'm not in the correct state of mind to make any decisions in regards to how much time she has. My mind is a horrible, depressed mess. I feel like I'm on a downward spiral towards oblivion, and honestly, I don't really care whether I reach it. I've already gone about as low as I can. I just want this whole situation to be over. I can't take the stress of it anymore.

[pentacle]

I think she likes the attention these men give. She is giving out signs, consciously or not, that even men who are generally extremely bad at signs can pick up as possible interest.

 

Anyone that is truly interested in their current bf/lover at any time in the first 2-3 years is totally focussed on them and is not looking out at other men, barely conscious in fact - so the fact that she says she's told them to back off and is fighting to concentrate on you is not a good thing. So I guess I'd say to you that she's looking around and enjoying attention and I don't give you much chance of being around in a year's time.

[jon01]

As helpers, we enjoy being there for people, listening to them, lending them a shoulder to cry on, doing whatever we can to make them feel better about themselves, sort themselves out, assist with their problem, lend a helping hand.

 

As helpers, we are especially drawn to the neediest of needy. The underdog. The weak, the helpless, those that are struggling, those that got tough breaks in life...the desperate, the destitute.

 

lol "helpers". Good one Taylor, very clever but I don't think so. If you want to help the needy and those who really need help, donate some money for people who don't have food on their table, or clothes on their back.

[taylor]

lol "helpers". Good one Taylor, very clever but I don't think so. If you want to help the needy and those who really need help, donate some money for people who don't have food on their table, or clothes on their back.

 

 

Jon,

 

I do help those who are most destitute. I work at a local soup kitchen on Saturday mornings. I serve as well as prepare and donate food.

 

I also work at a local clothing bank on Thursday evenings. It serves the poorest of poor as well as expectant mothers in need of baby supplies.

 

I also volunteer for March of Dimes and Special Olympics.

 

And throughout the year I raise money for local charities, help out with fund-raising dinners for terminally ill neighbors who can't pay medical expenses, and collect toys and coats for kids at Christmas time.

 

I also do bake sales for the church and I am a reading literacy volunteer at the local elementary school.

 

I donate both time and money in a variety of capacities.

 

But I also have a huge heart for people who are struggling emotionally.

 

I have two girlfriends who lost their homes to foreclosure.

 

I have a girlfriend who is struggling with the effects of an alcoholic husband.

 

I have two girlfriends who have recently become caregivers to their mothers..an all-consuming job.

 

I have a male coworker who recently went on disability because he is going blind.

 

And most recently I have a male friend who just lost his father to suicide.

 

I have reached out and continue to reach out to these friends in need.

 

The OM was just another friend who I reached out to in need. His needs were both emotional and financial. He was recently divorced, bankrupt, and struggling to raise two children (3 and 5) on his own. Self-esteem at rock bottom and on meds for depression. Working a minimum wage job and living on McDonald's burgers. No help from dysfunctional family members. Ex-wife continually evading the courts to avoid child support.

 

Yes. I reached out to him. Helped him with daycare, gave him money to get his car fixed, bought gifts for his kids at Christmas and their birthdays, lent a listening ear, tried to boost his self-esteem.

 

I got emotionally involved with him. It happens.

 

Go ahead. Put all the smiley faces on this you want.

 

You surprise me, Jon. You wrote the nicest post about faith to one poster. Don't recall who that was at the moment. Anyways, the post was so heartfelt, I wanted to print it..it was that good. But you vascillate so much in your posts. It's hard to get a handle on what you really stand for.

[jon01]

You surprise me, Jon. You wrote the nicest post about faith to one poster. Don't recall who that was at the moment. Anyways, the post was so heartfelt, I wanted to print it..it was that good. But you vascillate so much in your posts. It's hard to get a handle on what you really stand for.

 

Taylor, frankly you talk too much. You're one of those types of women that thinks they know everything about the human condition and relationships, and I sometimes get annoyed by that. It was funny to read your other post where you were trying to validate your unfaithfulness by twisting it around to make such a big explanation about how you are a "helper" and then you referenced that word multiple times.

[taylor]

Taylor, frankly you talk too much. You're one of those types of women that thinks they know everything about the human condition and relationships, and I sometimes get annoyed by that. It was funny to read your other post where you were trying to validate your unfaithfulness by twisting it around to make such a big explanation about how you are a "helper" and then you referenced that word multiple times.

 

 

No, Jon, I know very little about relationships or what makes people tick. If I did, I wouldn't have gotten into the mess I did.

 

And, no, I wasn't trying to validate my EA, with a "helper" theory. My point was that people with "helper" personalities run the risk of getting more emotionally involved than they should and need to be twice as careful about crossing lines. I unfortunately was not as careful as I should have been with regard to setting and keeping boundaries in place. I learned from this experience and Know I need to set healthier, stronger boundaries.

 

BTW, the "helper" explanation came from MC sessions with our therapist. I didn't make it up.

 

And the only reason I brought it up here was because the OP said his girlfriend had similar traits.

 

If my posts annoy you, don't read them.

[clean_slate]

I think my girlfriend has beaten me to the breaking up thing. She has stated that she wants "time to think" and get her life straightened out. I fear that it is only a ploy to break up with me. Essentially, her parents have told her that she shouldn't be dating me any longer because I can't single-handedly support her. Her mom is of the opinion that a woman should find a man to fully support her financially. There is major leverage in this due to the fact that her parents have been threatening to kick her out of their house. It's most likely going to eventually result in an ultimatum of she gets the boot or our relationship ends. I guess my girlfriend's behavior over the past couple months is making more sense now. My girlfriend will have to move back to Florida if her parents kick her out.

 

I understand what the consensus has been in this thread. You've stated that I should end the relationship. But I've been attempting to work things out, and then this comes along. I just feel so hopeless right now.

[whichwayisup]

She has stated that she wants "time to think" and get her life straightened out. I fear that it is only a ploy to break up with me

 

So, take it a step further and tell her that she can have all the time she needs to think about it because you're ending it now. I know you don't want to but you two have so many X's against you, including her family, which have alot of influence over her, let alone the OM.

[clean_slate]

So, take it a step further and tell her that she can have all the time she needs to think about it because you're ending it now. I know you don't want to but you two have so many X's against you, including her family, which have alot of influence over her, let alone the OM.

 

Easier said than done. Everytime I try to force myself into breaking things off, I pull back because I remember how much I love this girl.

[whichwayisup]

But think about it -Does the good outweigh the bad? How bad is the bad, enough that it affects you both? Think long term - Wife and children, a life built. IS she the type of woman you could grow old with?

[pelicanpreacher]

A bit of an update.

 

I am not sure what to think now. A mutual friend/mediator spoke with my girlfriend and I today (separately), and she has given me a lot to think about. My girlfriend is now claiming to want some time to think things through and get herself sorted out so she can be a better partner to me. I found out that she has already spoken to the emotional affair guy and made it clear to him that no hanging out or talking about his marriage can occur anymore. She apparently told him that while she wants to be his friend, she needs to focus on what is most important to her- our relationship. She also told him (and still insists to me) that she never intended to lead him on, and that she was only trying to be a good friend by lending her ear, and she is sorry he took it the wrong way. She also said she talked to the guy who invited her on the trip and told him the same type of thing. Part of me has always believed that none of this was intentional. However, there is still part of me that thinks she must have some interest in these guys.

 

What do you all think? The reason I haven't broken things off yet is because I have given her the benefit of the doubt. Am I naive (or even stupid) for doing so?

 

Your response should have been "Okay, that's fine"..."In the meantime I'll focus my vision on a new horizon so don't be too surprised if I'm not here when and if you decide to wander back"!

[taylor]

her parents have told her that she shouldn't be dating me any longer because I can't single-handedly support her. Her mom is of the opinion that a woman should find a man to fully support her financially. There is major leverage in this due to the fact that her parents have been threatening to kick her out of their house. It's most likely going to eventually result in an ultimatum of she gets the boot or our relationship ends.

 

Clean Slate, how long have you been dating this girl?

 

This is not the 1940's and this girl is not 17 years old. She's 24. She is perfectly capable of supporting herself. You are not responsible for her financial well-being.

 

Besides, do you want a girl to stay with you just because you offer to support her?

 

Find a girl who wants to stay with you because she loves you.

 

I would tell this girl to run home to mom and dad and don't come back until she grows up. This will free you up to find a grown woman who knows what she wants and who can stand on her own two feet.

 

You deserve so much better, Clean Slate. Hang in there. This turmoil you are going through is temporary. A year from now you will see it as a blessing in disguise.

[jcrew]

And when her parents gave her an ultimatum for being with you, were they aware that if her relationship with you fails she'll possibly wind up having an affair with a married man who has a child of his own? Since I'm guessing her thinking time is to decide who she has stronger feelings for, you or him. Does her mother think a man already supporting one family will volunteer to support her as well? It'd be interesting to know her parents' take on this situation if they knew all the details.