snide responses to porn...don't get mad guys

[Jennifer26]

Because it's not the same activity.

Things don't need to be the "same" to be comparable. Me using a vibrator isn't the same as my husband viewing pornography but they could be compared. The same is true for this topic.

[JerseyShortie]

Because it's not the same activity.

 

 

That's right, it's not exactly the same activity. That isn't what anyone os arguing.

 

Men and women are sometimes different in their sexuality. Yet, you still failed to logcially answer why a woman being looked at, with no futher interaction with the men looking at her, makes her a cheater when a man can look his fill of naked women himself.

[tanbark813]

Things don't need to be the "same" to be comparable. Me using a vibrator isn't the same as my husband viewing pornography but they could be compared. The same is true for this topic.

 

So does your using a vibrator give your H permission to post naked pics of himself?

[Jennifer26]

So does your using a vibrator give your H permission to post naked pics of himself?

I would have no problem with my husband posting nude pics of himself, so long as there wasn't personal interaction going on one to one with females.

 

I would also hope he wouldn't be stupid about it, and wouldn't post his face or anything that could identify him to others (work, family, etc) in said pictures. When I've posted pictures of myself I have always made sure there wasn't a way to identify me.

[tanbark813]

Men and women are sometimes different in their sexuality. Yet, you still failed to logcially answer why a woman being looked at, with no futher interaction with the men looking at her, makes her a cheater when a man can look his fill of naked women himself.

 

Because I don't feel that looking at porn is cheating. That goes for either gender.

 

I do, however, feel that posting naked pics of yourself is cheating. That also goes for either gender.

 

I don't know how much more clear I can be on that point.

 

I'm saying X is okay for both the man and the woman and Y is not okay for both the man and the woman. You're saying that X being okay for the man makes Y okay for the woman. You're comparing apples and oranges.

[tanbark813]

I would have no problem with my husband posting nude pics of himself, so long as there wasn't personal interaction going on one to one with females.

 

I would also hope he wouldn't be stupid about it, and wouldn't post his face or anything that could identify him to others (work, family, etc) in said pictures. When I've posted pictures of myself I have always made sure there wasn't a way to identify me.

 

Cool. Then you guys are in agreement. I'm not sure why you insist that all other couples have the same arrangement.

[Jennifer26]

Cool. Then you guys are in agreement. I'm not sure why you insist that all other couples have the same arrangement.

I'm not saying they do. Not every post I've made on this forum pertains to my personal situation.

 

Some people are okay with porn, some aren't. Some are into swinging, some aren't. Everyone is different.

 

I'm not saying because you look at pornography your wife should be able to go out and star in the next backdoor sluts 3. I'm saying a woman exposing herself for attention from other men, without any intimate contact (meaning talking and getting to know them) or physical contact shouldn't be viewed as cheating, especially if you are into looking at other women naked that are not her.

 

I certainly don't think what I did was cheating when I posted a topless picture. I wasn't trying to connect with men, or flirt, or anything other than fishing for a few compliments. I showed a picture, some people made comments, I read comments and said thanks and that was about it.

[tanbark813]

I'm not saying because you look at pornography your wife should be able to go out and star in the next backdoor sluts 3. I'm saying a woman exposing herself for attention from other men, without any intimate contact (meaning talking and getting to know them) or physical contact shouldn't be viewed as cheating, especially if you are into looking at other women naked that are not her.

 

Since when do you get to decide what I "should" and "shouldn't" consider cheating?

 

The fact is, I do consider it cheating. Whether or not you do as well makes no difference to me.

[SunnySideUp]

That is correct. I'm fine with one activity, not the other. That applies to both myself and my gf. It can't possibly be a double standard if I apply the same rules for her as I do myself.

 

Maybe double standard is the wrong phrase for it. You're giving inherent value to one action and not to the other. You happen to be saying one action, the action that is natural for a man is ok. The action that might be natural for some women is not.

 

 

Maybe they do. That doesn't make my personal stance on the matter incorrect. I'm as entitled to my opinion and how I operate within a relationship as you are.

 

As has been said before, if you don't want your SO to look at porn, then don't be with a person who does. If you want to be free to expose yourself to others, then be with a person who is okay with that. Just because you feel certain things are right or wrong for you personally or for your SO doesn't mean other couples have to adopt the same viewpoint. Conversely, you are by no means required to adopt the viewpoint of others.

 

Tanbark I hope you don't think I'm directly attacking you. I'm not saying that you're not entitled to your personal stance in your relationship, you definitely are. I'm trying to point out that this issue may actual be a societal issue, about what is acceptable and what isn't. I'm bringing into question the fairness of treating one desire as perfectly acceptable in a relationship and another desire as unacceptable, even though the two are very similar, albeit different.

 

 

This doesn't logically follow. You're making generalizations about some men and some women and then drawing conclusions about all men and all women. You're also assuming all women have the same inherent desires which BO has proven is false. Different people like different things.

 

Again, IMO:

 

1. It is okay for me to look at porn. It is okay for my gf to look at porn.

 

2. It is not okay for me to post naked pics of myself publicly. It is not okay for my gf to post naked pics of herself publicly.

 

You are not required to agree. Likewise, it is not your place to dictate what rules I should adopt for how I conduct myself and my relationships. It also can't possibly be a double standard if I have the same rules for myself as I do my gf.

 

I am not trying to argue the generalizations i've made. I clearly stated "IF" one thing is true, "AND" another thing is true, if you can agree on those two things, then this follows... I am not attempting to prove either of the "if" statements true.

 

If you think about what we're discussion here as one kind of action, that is looking at porn on the internet, you're saying it's ok to be on the "giving" end (looking, #1) and not the receiving end (being looked at, #2) if you're in a monogamous relationship. I think that this is a stance that needs to be challenged.

 

I will dare to go so far as to say that if being on the looking side is generally (in many cases, not all) a male action, and being on the looked-at side is generally (in many cases, not all) is a female action, then you are giving value to the male action and invalidating the female action. I'm not sure that either of these things are true. Based on my own personal experience, they would be true, but I cannot speak for all mankind and draw those conclusions. I would actually like to start talking to more people about it and find out how universal these two different desires are. But IF they are at least semi-universal, I think there's some unfairness going on.

[SunnySideUp]

to simplify for the sake of the argument,

 

a man looks at a woman naked online. if both parties are in a relationship, the woman is in the wrong, but the man is not.

 

how in the world is that fair?

[JerseyShortie]

I am still waiting for the guys to own up and answer alot of the questionis you directly asked Sunny side up.

 

It's not fair. And it's messed up thinking.

[BUENG1]

That's right, it's not exactly the same activity. That isn't what anyone os arguing.

 

Men and women are sometimes different in their sexuality. Yet, you still failed to logcially answer why a woman being looked at, with no futher interaction with the men looking at her, makes her a cheater when a man can look his fill of naked women himself.

 

Its been explained numerous times but you just choose to ignore the explanation and pretend nobody ever mentioned it.

[tanbark813]

Maybe double standard is the wrong phrase for it. You're giving inherent value to one action and not to the other. You happen to be saying one action, the action that is natural for a man is ok. The action that might be natural for some women is not.

 

Not exactly. I'm not saying it's not okay for a woman to pose for nude pics. I'm saying it's not okay for my gf. I have no vested interest in what other women choose to do.

 

Tanbark I hope you don't think I'm directly attacking you. I'm not saying that you're not entitled to your personal stance in your relationship, you definitely are. I'm trying to point out that this issue may actual be a societal issue, about what is acceptable and what isn't. I'm bringing into question the fairness of treating one desire as perfectly acceptable in a relationship and another desire as unacceptable, even though the two are very similar, albeit different.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by it being a societal issue. There is no right or wrong. Not everyone in society is going to agree on what is right or wrong regarding this subject (as can be clearly seen in this thread ). Even if, for the sake of argument, we as a society deem porn wrong, then what? Do we make it illegal? I'm not a smoker and I know the harmful side effects of smoking but I would never support it being illegal. I believe people should have the right to choose for themselves whether or not it's okay.

 

If you think about what we're discussion here as one kind of action, that is looking at porn on the internet, you're saying it's ok to be on the "giving" end (looking, #1) and not the receiving end (being looked at, #2) if you're in a monogamous relationship. I think that this is a stance that needs to be challenged.

 

That is how I view it. If you mean to challenge my personal viewpoint, it's not going to change my mind. If you mean to challenge society's perception, well, I'm not sure what to say as I don't expect all of society to agree with me. Nor do I expect all of society to agree with you.

 

I will dare to go so far as to say that if being on the looking side is generally (in many cases, not all) a male action, and being on the looked-at side is generally (in many cases, not all) is a female action, then you are giving value to the male action and invalidating the female action. I'm not sure that either of these things are true. Based on my own personal experience, they would be true, but I cannot speak for all mankind and draw those conclusions. I would actually like to start talking to more people about it and find out how universal these two different desires are. But IF they are at least semi-universal, I think there's some unfairness going on.

 

If I were with someone like JS, for example, there would be unfairness because of our viewpoints. If I were with BO, there would not be unfairness as she and I share more similar viewpoints.

 

to simplify for the sake of the argument,

 

a man looks at a woman naked online. if both parties are in a relationship, the woman is in the wrong, but the man is not.

 

how in the world is that fair?

 

You're oversimplifying things. It depends on what those people and their SO's consider right or wrong. If the woman is with a man who didn't like her posing nude, she would be in the wrong in his eyes. If she was with a man who didn't mind, or even liked her posing nude, she wouldn't be in the wrong in his eyes.

 

Like I said, find a SO with compatible opinions.

[JerseyShortie]

I have no vested interest in what other women choose to do.

 

 

Except when they are naked and having sex.

[tanbark813]

Except when they are naked and having sex.

 

Okay, maybe that.

[Stockalone]

I could not sum it up any better then SunnySideup is doing. She is expressing everthing perfectly and I am in total agreement. And she has posed some really good questions that I have yet to see be directly addressed. So I for one, would really appreaciate any male perspective on answering Sunny's questions:

 

 

Is a man cheating if he watches an online video (porno) of a married woman performing sexual acts on herself? (and is it cheating on the married woman's part?)

 

It isn't cheating on the man's part, if his gf/wife doesn't have a problem with him watching it. If he has to hide it and lies to her about it because she considers it cheating, then the guy is cheating on his gf.

 

The same goes for the woman who is "performing". If her bf/husband is o.k. with that, it isn't cheating.

 

 

What constitutes cheating and what is allowed or isn't allowed within a relationship has to be determined and agreed on by the people in the relationship.

 

If it were my gf "performing", I would certainly consider it cheating. If she watches another guy, I wouldn't consider it cheating, but I would not be happy.

 

 

Is a man cheating if he watches an online webcam show of a married woman performing sexual acts on herself? (and is it cheating on the married woman's part?)

 

My gf watching another guy "live" would bother me, but as long as there is no interaction, I wouldn't consider it cheating. Still, I would ask her to not do it again because I think it is inappropriate. As soon as there is interaction, meaning she starts telling the webcam guy what he should do via a chat or messenger, it is cheating.

 

If my gf would do a live show, that would be cheating.

 

 

Is a man cheating if he looks at a nudie pic online of a married woman? (and is it cheating on the married woman's part?)

 

Looking at pictures of strangers is not cheating. If my gf would put naked pictures of her online or send them to other guys, that would be cheating.

[SunnySideUp]

I agree that whatever a couple agrees to is fine. I don't care if you're Christian and only think missionary position is acceptable, whatever.

 

I'm not aiming to change societal views or anything like that, I'm simply calling into question a value that I think is unfair and biased toward a man's point of view.

 

I agree, any sort of interaction, like on a webcam show, is cheating.

 

I am just wondering, considering people in monogamous relationships, what inherently makes "looking" at nude people ok, but not being nude and being "looked at" ok? Honestly, if you think about it like an equation, there's someone on one side and someone on the other side. Why is it ok to be on one side and not the other?

 

I know I'm oversimplifying, but it's because I'm trying to get to the bottom of a very complicated set of ideas, and that's the only way I know how to do it.

 

What I wonder, is what if people were made differently? I wonder what it would be like if most men got pleasure from being eyed by women. I wonder what it would be like if women got more pleasure out of seeking out different types of men, if there would be mostly porn sites featuring men, more strip clubs featuring men, and more dirty magazines featuring men. If this were the case, I wonder if looking would still be ok while being looked at would not be.

[SunnySideUp]

I am? Wow, I wasn't aware of this fact. Apparently I'm running around trying get attention from men and I am completely unaware of the fact. How interesting. I love it when people think they know the motivations of others that they have never met, never talked to, and don't know anything about.

 

I don't like the way cellulite and wrinkles look because it is not something that I find attractive in myself. I am the one who looks at my body in the mirror everyday - I don't showcase myself, so I don't know why I would be concerned with cellulite or wrinkles if no one ever sees those parts of my body but me, or my SO.

 

I don't wear bikinis because they show more skin - for god's sake I'm 9 months pregnant and I still wear a bikini - I am NOT trying to get attention from men at this point in my life!

 

if you study other cultures and historical times in the european history you'll notice that what is considered beautiful or sexy is different from culture to culture, and that women and men of the culture tend to have a pattern of dressing and grooming that lives up to those fashions. Do you think it's impossible that we all sort of live up to societal expectations of beauty? We are constantly bombarded by images of women in all forms of visual media that let us know what is currently considered beautiful. Why else would we bother getting our hair cut or doing our makeup in the fashion, much less maintaining our bodies in a way that is fashionable and considered beautiful by the culture as a whole?

[SunnySideUp]

Its been explained numerous times but you just choose to ignore the explanation and pretend nobody ever mentioned it.

 

personally, I do understand the argument that a person doesn't want their SO doing something they think is not right, and that they wouldn't do it themselves. However, I'm calling this one particular value into question because I believe it inadvertantly favors the male perspective, which to me makes it unfair.

[tanbark813]

I am just wondering, considering people in monogamous relationships, what inherently makes "looking" at nude people ok, but not being nude and being "looked at" ok? Honestly, if you think about it like an equation, there's someone on one side and someone on the other side. Why is it ok to be on one side and not the other?

 

It may have to do with the person being looked at sharing something that is normally private with the person looking. If my gf views porn, she's not sharing anything with the people she's viewing. However, if she's the one in the nude pics, she's sharing her nudity with the people viewing.

[Ruby Slippers]

to simplify for the sake of the argument,

 

a man looks at a woman naked online. if both parties are in a relationship, the woman is in the wrong, but the man is not.

 

how in the world is that fair?

B R A V O. Thank you for pointing out what is obviously a huge double standard.

 

You're oversimplifying things. It depends on what those people and their SO's consider right or wrong. If the woman is with a man who didn't like her posing nude, she would be in the wrong in his eyes. If she was with a man who didn't mind, or even liked her posing nude, she wouldn't be in the wrong in his eyes.

 

And how come it doesn't depend on what people and their SOs consider right and wrong where porn is concerned? Couldn't I also say -- and I'll use your exact wording with genders reversed -- if the man is with a woman who didn't like him viewing porn, he would be in the wrong in her eyes. If he were with a woman who didn't mind, or even liked him viewing porn, he wouldn't be in the wrong in her eyes? WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE? There is none.

 

I actually had a conversation with my boyfriend about him viewing naked women and me putting my naked self on display as equivalent, arguing that if the former is OK, the latter should be, too. After some discussion, he understood my argument and agreed that the two were male and female equivalents.

[BUENG1]

personally, I do understand the argument that a person doesn't want their SO doing something they think is not right, and that they wouldn't do it themselves. However, I'm calling this one particular value into question because I believe it inadvertantly favors the male perspective, which to me makes it unfair.

 

 

The actions are doing two completly different things. Saying one action is "male" and the other is "female" and therefore they are equivalent is arbituary.

[tanbark813]

And how come it doesn't depend on what people and their SOs consider right and wrong where porn is concerned? Couldn't I also say -- and I'll use your exact wording with genders reversed -- if the man is with a woman who didn't like him viewing porn, he would be in the wrong in her eyes. If he were with a woman who didn't mind, or even liked him viewing porn, he wouldn't be in the wrong in her eyes? WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE? There is none.

 

I never said there was a difference. Like I said before, find someone with compatible viewpoints.

 

I actually had a conversation with my boyfriend about him viewing naked women and me putting my naked self on display as equivalent, arguing that if the former is OK, the latter should be, too. After some discussion, he understood my argument and agreed that the two were male and female equivalents.

 

Good for you. I disagree with your bf, but to each his own.

[Ruby Slippers]

I never said there was a difference. Like I said before, find someone with compatible viewpoints.

But you did say "Threads like this make me glad my gf isn't a bitter prude." So, if a woman has a problem with her guy looking at naked women, she's de facto a bitter prude, but if a guy has a problem with his woman posing naked, he's normal and justified?

 

I also find your comment about "a whore who puts naked pics of herself online" disturbing. A naked woman is good enough to be a sexual object to bust a nut over but not good enough to be considered a worthwhile person?

 

Sounds like as women we're damned if we love sex (whore) and damned if we have any kind of boundaries or preferences about it (prude).

[The Collector]

While contesting the comparison between men looking at porn and women putting naked photos of themselves online, personally I enjoy other men admiring my beautiful girlfriend, and have dated strippers in the past and had no problem with them getting a thrill from exposing themselves to strangers. Other men may well have found this difficult, but I'm not a jealous person.

 

 

 

Also let's be realistic, nobody considers themselves a prude.