tanbark813 Posted July 3, 2008 Posted July 3, 2008 As for myself, I wouldn't need to do that, but if my guy is going to mix it up with porn, there's no reason I shouldn't be able to mix it up with a similar activity that turns me on. Whether you should or shouldn't is relative. As long as you're with a guy who condones that then you're good to go.
Ruby Slippers Posted July 3, 2008 Posted July 3, 2008 Whether you should or shouldn't is relative. As long as you're with a guy who condones that then you're good to go. What I am taking issue with is the pervasive notion men have that porn use is non-negotiable and whether or not his girlfriend/wife condones it is irrelevant. If men are going to sneak around and lie about it, they shouldn't be surprised when their woman does similar. I am also pointing out that a man who looks at other naked women shouldn't be surprised at his woman allowing other men to look at her naked.
Stockalone Posted July 3, 2008 Posted July 3, 2008 And to her, I'm sure it's real that her guy is masturbating and having orgasms to images of other women. If I send a picture of myself to some random guy in a chat room and he pays me a few compliments and that incites sexy thoughts for me and I go masturbate, I see that as no more "real" than my boyfriend viewing porn. I could argue that since I don't watch porn when I am in a relationship, I, in return, can demand that my gf doesn't send out pictures of herself. But demanding something would be the tit for tat mentality that will get us nowhere besides a stalemate that helps neither side. I am never going to talk to this man, meet him, or have anything more to do with him. He's mere pixels on a screen, just like porn. It's a meaningless way to get fantasies flowing and remind me of my sexy side, to get some of that famous sexual and sensual "variety" that men love so much. You will have a hard time convincing many guys that this is comparable to a man watching porn. Let's say a woman tells me that she does send out pics of her because that is what she needs and she would be o.k. with me masturbating to porn, I wouldn't take that deal. Other men might be o.k. with that. I would make a counteroffer: no porn for me, no sending out pics for her. As for myself, I wouldn't need to do that, but if my guy is going to mix it up with porn, there's no reason I shouldn't be able to mix it up with a similar activity that turns me on. I don't mind if a woman proposes such a deal to her guy under those circumstances, as long as she is being honest and upfront about it. That gives the guy the chance to decide if he is o.k. with it. Men should do the same. If they tell the woman that they will not give up porn, the woman can make an informed decision whether or not that is acceptable for her.
tanbark813 Posted July 3, 2008 Posted July 3, 2008 What I am taking issue with is the pervasive notion men have that porn use is non-negotiable and whether or not his girlfriend/wife condones it is irrelevant. If men are going to sneak around and lie about it, they shouldn't be surprised when their woman does similar. Not all men have the same opinion on porn use within a relationship. And I don't think anyone said it's irrelevant if the gf/wife has a problem with it. Not all women do anyway. I've personally only had one gf who had a big problem with it. The rest either were fine with it or it just never came up. I should say, though, that I've never chosen porn over a gf and I can't really understand why some guys would, but I've also never been married. For me porn is more for filling in the gaps during periods of singlehood or when I won't be seeing my gf for a few days. I am also pointing out that a man who looks at other naked women shouldn't be surprised at his woman allowing other men to look at her naked. He also doesn't have to put up with it if he doesn't want to. Like I said: find someone with compatible viewpoints.
tanbark813 Posted July 3, 2008 Posted July 3, 2008 I don't mind if a woman proposes such a deal to her guy under those circumstances, as long as she is being honest and upfront about it. That gives the guy the chance to decide if he is o.k. with it. Men should do the same. If they tell the woman that they will not give up porn, the woman can make an informed decision whether or not that is acceptable for her. Exactly.
Mr. Lucky Posted July 4, 2008 Posted July 4, 2008 I am also pointing out that a man who looks at other naked women shouldn't be surprised at his woman allowing other men to look at her naked. I'm trying to understand the thought process that would allow a woman to object to porn on the grounds that it is wrong, exploitative or demeaning, yet permit her to email nude pix of herself to others. Aren't the two things under the same umbrella? Mr. Lucky
The Collector Posted July 4, 2008 Posted July 4, 2008 One major difference is a man watches porn, other men understand. Woman puts naked photos of her online while in a relationship, other women will think she's a tramp. Having said that, I almost see your point. But I have no problem with it guess, I've dated strippers and models, other men could see their naked body, online and in the flesh, and I didn't mind at all. But then I'm not a jealous or insecure person.
annieo Posted July 4, 2008 Posted July 4, 2008 One major difference is a man watches porn, other men understand. Woman puts naked photos of her online while in a relationship, other women will think she's a tramp. Having said that, I almost see your point. But I have no problem with it guess, I've dated strippers and models, other men could see their naked body, online and in the flesh, and I didn't mind at all. But then I'm not a jealous or insecure person. Not only will (some) other women think she's a tramp, so will many men. And actually, if I had a female friend who posted naked pics of herself because she has a husband who ignores her and prefers his porn, I'd say, "Well done, sister! Way to make a point!" I'm vacillating all over the place on this one, because I've looked at porn more than a few times, but I sure as hell wouldn't want my husband or children choosing it as a profession. Maybe we do have to start looking at the bigger picture. If you wouldn't want your child/wife/husband to do it, then maybe you shouldn't be looking at it, getting off to it? Kind of spoils the party, but otherwise aren't you using other people like things, treating an "underclass" of people for your momentary amusement, perpetuating a certain level of abuse on people who maybe got into it in the first place because they felt like nothing, perhaps due to abuse? I feel an epiphany coming on...
Jersey Shortie Posted July 4, 2008 Posted July 4, 2008 Seriously, what is this? Tit for tat? Is this still about men watching porn or something else? It's not about Tit for tat but it is about equality in relationships. So, in return, can I expect my gf to not wear mini skirts that barely cover her crotch or can I expect her to not wear that tight, low-cut and very revealing top? You can certainly discuss this with her and request whatever guides lines you'd like in a relationship. This actually reminded me of an ex. He use to say how much he liked my classic turtle necks but if there was some girl in a halter top his eyes of course wandered. He didn't really ever say much to compliment my halter tops. Agreed, but what do you want? Men behaving in a way that you deem appropriate or men listening to your concerns and then making a choice to either agree with you, work out a compromise or walk away? I'd perfer a man to listen to my concerns, and for us to be able to make a choice and compromise. Contrary to probably popular belief..I don't want a man to do whatever I say like a lap dog. To be honest, from what I have read from tanbark, he is one of the guys that has the least hangups about women's sexuality and how they can express it. Except when it comes to women expressing their sexulaity by posting pictures of their beautiful female bodies..then their whores. I should say, though, that I've never chosen porn over a gf and I can't really understand why some guys would, but I've also never been married. For me porn is more for filling in the gaps during periods of singlehood or when I won't be seeing my gf for a few days. And what if you were seing your gf everyday? Would you have no need for porn then? I also tend to think that if you think your woman would be sharing something of herself with others by posting pictures of her body, that must me that you think others are taking something from her. And if you are a man viewing pictures of other naked women, then you are allowing another woman to share herself with you and you are also taking something from her.
tanbark813 Posted July 4, 2008 Posted July 4, 2008 Except when it comes to women expressing their sexulaity by posting pictures of their beautiful female bodies..then their whores. Only if the women are in a relationship with me. If I don't know them then they're givers. And what if you were seing your gf everyday? Would you have no need for porn then? Basically, yes. I can't say that if I saw her everyday for a entire year, for example, that I would never look at it. There would probably be instances here and there, but the frequency certainly goes down the more often I see her. When I'm not getting laid regularly porn is much more interesting than when I am. I also tend to think that if you think your woman would be sharing something of herself with others by posting pictures of her body, that must me that you think others are taking something from her. And if you are a man viewing pictures of other naked women, then you are allowing another woman to share herself with you and you are also taking something from her. I suppose so, yes. Wow, I think this is the most I've ever agreed with JS.
mental_traveller Posted July 4, 2008 Posted July 4, 2008 ROFL I would have a lot of respect for any woman that came up with these kinda retorts. As a guy you'd never even want to go jerk to some porn vid when you can get a real live bedroom firecraker like this at home.
Jersey Shortie Posted July 5, 2008 Posted July 5, 2008 Only if the women are in a relationship with me. If I don't know them then they're givers. How come it's okay for you to take something that you consider personal from another woman though? Basically, yes. I can't say that if I saw her everyday for a entire year, for example, that I would never look at it. There would probably be instances here and there, but the frequency certainly goes down the more often I see her. When I'm not getting laid regularly porn is much more interesting than when I am. Then you can't really use the excuse that it's only because she isn't around that you look at porn. ALot of guys tend to say that they only look at it when their SO isn't avaliable when I think the truth is that alot of guys use it in ateration with their real life woman. Thus, they are replacing her on some level in those moments for the variety. So I don't really think men can claim they aren't replacing their SOs when the turn to porn. It sounds like to me that there is nothing a woman can do to obtain loyatly from a man. I suppose so, yes. Wow, I think this is the most I've ever agreed with JS I find it disheartenting that you think it's okay for you to take something from other women in what they are offering but don't like the idea of other men taking something from your SO. I find a bit of unfairness in this. I would also hope that if you do consider yourself taking something from another woman, then you would understand more why and how it could bother a woman that loves a man. Because there is certainly an interaction going on there if he thinks he is takign something from another woman by looking at her naked. ROFL I would have a lot of respect for any woman that came up with these kinda retorts. As a guy you'd never even want to go jerk to some porn vid when you can get a real live bedroom firecraker like this at home. Was that comment directed to me?
Lookingforward Posted July 5, 2008 Posted July 5, 2008 Was that comment directed to me? ROFL - I believe the comment was directed at the OP :lmao: but yours does provide some insight.............
tanbark813 Posted July 5, 2008 Posted July 5, 2008 How come it's okay for you to take something that you consider personal from another woman though? Because she put it out there for the world to see of her own volition. Then you can't really use the excuse that it's only because she isn't around that you look at porn. ALot of guys tend to say that they only look at it when their SO isn't avaliable when I think the truth is that alot of guys use it in ateration with their real life woman. Thus, they are replacing her on some level in those moments for the variety. So I don't really think men can claim they aren't replacing their SOs when the turn to porn. Just because you don't believe me doesn't make it not true. I find it disheartenting that you think it's okay for you to take something from other women in what they are offering but don't like the idea of other men taking something from your SO. I find a bit of unfairness in this. So? You're not required to agree.
Lovelybird Posted July 6, 2008 Posted July 6, 2008 If porn nis just a tool for men, then how come men defend it so vemontly instead of listening to the real woman in their life? . because Porn is their addictive tool that they cannot live without ? [The irony here is this statement shows your own insecurity. Basically when guys say this it is meant to shame women who don't agree with porn because of his own insecurity of his porn use. It is an attempt to make it seem like anyone who is okay with porn has it all together, is uber confident, and sexual revoltionaries in the bedroom. Which isn't really the real truth. I agree. It is like: ok, now I am going to indulging in lust other women, no matter how it makes you feel, probably it makes you feel you are unwanted, make you feel you have to compete with those porn stars, you have to be like those porn stars otherwise you aren't get any. THAT has nothing to do my faithfulness and self control ! what is wrong with you ! The best part: if you are ok with porn, then you are open minded; if you aren't ok with it, then you are prude, close minded, and low self-esteem Those who accept porn watching is somewhat low self-esteem, because they dare not to speak their mind and afraid to loose their porn addictive bf. they reprogram their mind, and try to force themselves become doormat
Lookingforward Posted July 6, 2008 Posted July 6, 2008 because Porn is their addictive tool that they cannot live without ? I agree. It is like: ok, now I am going to indulging in lust other women, no matter how it makes you feel, probably it makes you feel you are unwanted, make you feel you have to compete with those porn stars, you have to be like those porn stars otherwise you aren't get any. THAT has nothing to do my faithfulness and self control ! what is wrong with you ! The best part: if you are ok with porn, then you are open minded; if you aren't ok with it, then you are prude, close minded, and low self-esteem Those who accept porn watching is somewhat low self-esteem, because they dare not to speak their mind and afraid to loose their porn addictive bf. they reprogram their mind, and try to force themselves become doormat LOOKING at porn does NOT make it addictive - you're drawing a long bow there....and missing your mark IMO
Jennifer26 Posted July 6, 2008 Posted July 6, 2008 Those who accept porn watching is somewhat low self-esteem, because they dare not to speak their mind and afraid to loose their porn addictive bf I absolutely agree with this from my own personal experience. After many battles over porn, I at one time decided I was going to give up the fight. I decided if you can't beat them, then join them. So I not only said nothing about porn to my husband, and allowed it in our bedroom.. I even at times found porn for him to watch! Me, doing this.. probably sounds crazy if you have read anything I've posted on this message board. But I did it because I felt beat down, and eventually, I felt even worse after going along with it. And then the porn was everywhere before I knew it, on my husbands cell phone wallpaper, computer wallpaper, in his ipod, everywhere all I saw were images of other nude women. It drove me crazy until eventually I snapped and he was so confused before here I had been so cool about it. It was a bad decision I feel to pretend something was okay when clearly it was not.
Lovelybird Posted July 6, 2008 Posted July 6, 2008 There are some issues that shouldn't be compromised, didn't mean you should force someone change, not working, at least not stop fighting what is right. If you compromise the issue that shouldn't be compromised, the relationship will not head onto right direction in long term sense. if you have an idea what is right, keep that a goal, then seek solutions to solve that. The last thing you do is to accept wrong
Lovelybird Posted July 6, 2008 Posted July 6, 2008 I absolutely agree with this from my own personal experience. After many battles over porn, I at one time decided I was going to give up the fight. I decided if you can't beat them, then join them. So I not only said nothing about porn to my husband, and allowed it in our bedroom.. I even at times found porn for him to watch! Me, doing this.. probably sounds crazy if you have read anything I've posted on this message board. But I did it because I felt beat down, and eventually, I felt even worse after going along with it. And then the porn was everywhere before I knew it, on my husbands cell phone wallpaper, computer wallpaper, in his ipod, everywhere all I saw were images of other nude women. It drove me crazy until eventually I snapped and he was so confused before here I had been so cool about it. It was a bad decision I feel to pretend something was okay when clearly it was not. I realized that I said 'low self-esteem' was too strong:). I had those compromises too, and saw it was bad
michelangelo Posted July 6, 2008 Posted July 6, 2008 Just because you don't believe me doesn't make it not true. Tanbark, I can't tell you how many times I've tried to make that very point to the more irrational members of my family. The variation on theme: Just because you believe something is true does not make it true.
Lovelybird Posted July 6, 2008 Posted July 6, 2008 Just because you believe something is true does not make it true. such as?? if her feelings hurt, then you don't believe it, then it isn't true?? or because she believe she is hurt by that, and that doesn't mean it is true?? instead you believe 'she must has a problem for feeling that, she is the one got problems, not me'. what is your rational?
Stockalone Posted July 6, 2008 Posted July 6, 2008 It's not about Tit for tat but it is about equality in relationships. You can certainly discuss this with her and request whatever guides lines you'd like in a relationship. This actually reminded me of an ex. He use to say how much he liked my classic turtle necks but if there was some girl in a halter top his eyes of course wandered. He didn't really ever say much to compliment my halter tops. I turtleneck sweaters, especially the short-sleeve, cotton rib ones in beige or white. I never had the same fascination with halter tops, I always liked tank tops better, but I am digressing. I'd perfer a man to listen to my concerns, and for us to be able to make a choice and compromise. Contrary to probably popular belief..I don't want a man to do whatever I say like a lap dog. If your SO listens to your concerns and you are able to talk about things and reach a compromise that works for both of you, then what does it matter what other men do or think? From what you have written, it sounds like you are convinced that all men will compare the woman in their life to a porn star. That men need porn in addition to sex with their SO to be happy. That men will adopt a behaviour that they have seen in porn and thus treat their gf or wife without respect or that they will degrade all women. Sure, I agree that there is a lot of degrading porn out there and obviously, if there would be no demand for that kind of porn, it wouldn't be produced. However, not all men like the same kind of porn. And not all men attach the same meaning (if any) to the things they see in porn. I am sure there are some men that actually have problems and are addicted to porn or have become corrupted by their porn consumption, but this is certainly not the case for the vast majority of men. Except when it comes to women expressing their sexulaity by posting pictures of their beautiful female bodies..then their whores. What I meant was that there are men that are a lot less open-minded than tanbark when it comes to women expressing their sexuality. I mean, how many women actually do post pictures of themselves online? There are other ways of expressing sexuality that are much more common where tanbark has no objections and other men do. That was why I mentioned the "bar chicks" thread.
michelangelo Posted July 6, 2008 Posted July 6, 2008 such as?? if her feelings hurt, then you don't believe it, then it isn't true?? or because she believe she is hurt by that, and that doesn't mean it is true?? instead you believe 'she must has a problem for feeling that, she is the one got problems, not me'. what is your rational? For example, my wife decided that some lady at my work and I were havig an affair. We were not. She used that as one of her many excuses for when she cheated on me later. It has been extremely difficult to repair things with her. Why? Because she hangs onto these untruths so she doesn't have to face the enormity of what she did--cheatin for six years, lying all during that time and another 8 years just for good measure-- based on a crazy notion she had. She insists it was true, still is not sure it is not true, because she "feels" it is true. The only basis she had for it? The lady was pretty and hugged me once in her presence.
White Flower Posted July 6, 2008 Posted July 6, 2008 Well then it sounds like there are bigger problems in your marriage than porn. I wouldn't stick around long enough for there to be 7 years of no sex. I would have left long before that. Wow. That is a very long time to endure M without sex. What is the payoff? Nice house? Staying for the kids?
SunnySideUp Posted July 7, 2008 Posted July 7, 2008 ROFL I would have a lot of respect for any woman that came up with these kinda retorts. As a guy you'd never even want to go jerk to some porn vid when you can get a real live bedroom firecraker like this at home. my husband would care to differ!
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