Why berate Christians?

[Lovelybird]

I lived like the world

Did whatever I want

"Come on, let's live,

drink, party and coke"

 

"I don't give a damn about

what I shouldn't do. I should live

just as what I like"

 

I did what I liked, satisfied my flesh in every way

but tasted Like desperation and death.

Freedom to do anything

becomes freedom to bondages

This isn't right

This isn't life

Is there anything better than these?

 

A voice said,

Empty yourself, dump your ego

Your embition, your selfishness

I will fill you with real life

A real life spring out rejoice and peace

A real life is filled with fulfillment

You'll never thirsty

 

I was overwelmed with rejoice

There is something better

Much better

 

I looked at what I lived

Look at the future He promised

 

Looked at those things I took comfort from

Looked at The perfect love He gives

 

I wondered who will choose lack instead of full?

Who would rather be treated like slave

Than be treated like one deeply loved and cared by Him?

Who would choose death instead of real life?

Those who choose former not make any sense

 

Pure love He gives

Pure words and hopes He speaks

True freedom He teaches

Heartwarm comfort He eagerly sends

What can be better than this?

 

Why would I still live in sin and being slave of sin?

Why would I rather being slaves of own selfishness?

Why would I rather see death not life?

NO, this doesn't make any sense

 

I will choose real life

A real life full of rejoice and peace

A real life can taste what is pure love

A real life full of hope

 

Bravo

[D-Lish]

I lived like the world

Did whatever I want

"Come on, let's live,

drink, party and coke"

 

"I don't give a damn about

what I shouldn't do. I should live

just as what I like"

 

I did what I liked, satisfied my flesh in every way

but tasted Like desperation and death.

Freedom to do anything

becomes freedom to bondages

This isn't right

This isn't life

Is there anything better than these?

 

A voice said,

Empty yourself, dump your ego

Your embition, your selfishness

I will fill you with real life

A real life spring out rejoice and peace

A real life is filled with fulfillment

You'll never thirsty

 

I was overwelmed with rejoice

There is something better

Much better

 

I looked at what I lived

Look at the future He promised

 

Looked at those things I took comfort from

Looked at The perfect love He gives

 

I wondered who will choose lack instead of full?

Who would rather be treated like slave

Than be treated like one deeply loved and cared by Him?

Who would choose death instead of real life?

Those who choose former not make any sense

 

Pure love He gives

Pure words and hopes He speaks

True freedom He teaches

Heartwarm comfort He eagerly sends

What can be better than this?

 

Why would I still live in sin and being slave of sin?

Why would I rather being slaves of own selfishness?

Why would I rather see death not life?

NO, this doesn't make any sense

 

I will choose real life

A real life full of rejoice and peace

A real life can taste what is pure love

A real life full of hope

 

Bravo

 

I'd really like to hear YOUR personal thoughts on matters.

You quote, but rarely emote.

[Lovelybird]

I'd really like to hear YOUR personal thoughts on matters.

You quote, but rarely emote.

This is my personal thoughts,

it isn't quote, I wrote

only coke wasn't real

[disgracian]

1. Just as your lack of religious belief affects us. At football games, in a community where no one has an objection to saying a prayer before the game, we are now not allowed to do so by law.

Utter tripe. You can, at all times and places, pray to your heart's content in exactly the way Jesus instructed you to.

2. I do believe I have lived in the South my entire life. There are plenty anti-Christian sects. Besides, don't like where you live within the "Bible-belt?" Move!

LOL, that's your answer to everything isn't it? I've got a better idea: if somebody doesn't like it, stay and try to make an improvement rather than allow narrow-minded troglodytes to indulge in their bigotry.

 

Cheers,

D.

[mental_traveller]

I guess for the same reason they'd act that way to people who believe in the Boogie Monster, astrology, a flat earth, or other things with no proof supporting it. It is hard to respect a belief that appears to have no supporting evidence (the position of most agnostics/atheists is that god's existence falls into this category). Some people, if they don't respect someone's beliefs, then they won't respect the person - so they'll take a shot at you personally, rather than just debating you on the issue.

 

Now respecting the person is a different matter entirely. Just like two scientists can have different theories, and politely disagree on them, so two people of differing spiritual views can disagree without losing respect for each other.

[disgracian]

Muslims are somewhat terrorist based

So are all Abrahamic religions if you want to get picky.

In England they have large groups of Muslims running around planning to over throw the government and turn it into a "Muslim" country.

How is that different to what the Religious Right are trying to accomplish in America?

You can't compare Christianity to Islam at this point in time.

I can and will.

 

Cheers,

D.

[mental_traveller]

 

I have faith and it works for ME and thats all that matters.

 

I don't think many people object to that, they may even approve. What people object to is when religious people try to enforce laws or social codes on people who don't share their views. Once you start trying to regulate what other people can and can't do, you need more than blind faith to back up your interference. "Because the Bible says so" is not enough for anyone other than yourself and those you voluntarily chose to share your beliefs.

 

That's where religion gets a bad press IMO. And justifiably so.

[disgracian]

Who is the one suicide bombing people? Its not Christians.

Because we have aircraft carriers and cruise missiles; we don't need to. Islamic terrorists (well, we used to call them freedom fighters when they attacked Russia) blow themselves up because that's all they can really do. For what it's worth, the IRA (Protestant Christians) used to blow up all sorts of things as well. You are quite breathtakingly ignorant of history and the world.

 

Cheers,

D.

[disgracian]

I agree, the children of Israel had massacred entire villages and cities by the saying of God. Were they wrong, of course they were if you were the unfortunate targets. But, they did what their God told them. So, one can't really blame them.

Just like you can't blame Islamic suicide bombers. Are people suddenly no longer moral agents who are responsible for their actions so long as they claim to hear voices in their head? Good grief. This is exactly what is wrong with religion.

 

Cheers,

D.

[mental_traveller]

I'm really, really hoping that was some weird attempt at irony. Or else you really need to go educate yourself. Like, desperately.

 

Start here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam

This is a page about the Islam religion, which will help you realize that Islam is not based in terrorism whatsoever.

 

And then go here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_christianity

This is a page about the history of Christianity, where you will read about how Christianity generally succeeded in taking over several governmental systems. You will also find that Christians are, historically, the most bloodthirsty/violent/destructive/murderous religion that has ever existed.

 

The More You Know! ©

 

That's true, but he has a point - at the moment it is people from the Muslim world who are by far committing the most terrorism against the West. There generally isn't much terrorism motivated by people's interpretation of Christianity - not since Northern Ireland started the peace process.

 

Personally I think most terrorism is politically motivated, however there is no question that a lot of people use religion to encourage it, and there a many gullible people willing to swallow the "God says kill the infidels" mantra - hook, line, and sinker.

[mental_traveller]

Who is the one suicide bombing people? Its not Christians.

 

The Muslim religion is 800 years behind Christianity, look at the culture that endorses it.

 

As much as people go on about equality, Christianity is superior Islam any day of the week, at least at this point in time.

 

Christianity is not the same as the current behaviour of Christians. Nor is Islam identical to the current behaviour of Muslims, let alone a small minority of them (only a small few are terrorists).

 

The religions and belief systems can only be compared in their teachings, NOT in the behaviour of their followers. The Nazis had many Christians, after all. The USSR was officially atheist, yet I don't think atheism advocates mass murder or the creation of police states. If the Koran says suicide, or killing of innocents is wrong, then suicide bombing is clearly anti-Islamic. The fact that some Muslims ignore the Koran and do it anyway is not the fault of the Koran or Islamic teaching in that case. Surely that's pretty clear? It's the fault of the person twisting the religion and using it as a veil to justify their own evil actions.

[mental_traveller]

It isn't religions that do all the damage, it is the people who use religion as an excuse to hurt others who don't agree with them. The term religion is just a word, the hands and feet are the people. Yes, they use whatever sect, belief, deity to do horrible acts against humanity, but it is again the people. And for ever fanatic that is off the deep end, there are those who are peaceful and follow their doctrines.

 

Then again, there are some parts of religious texts that clearly demand believers to commit evil acts. The Bible and the Koran are guilty as sin on this one.

[mental_traveller]

 

One can NEVER logically argue if there is or isn't such a thing as a higher power. I don't personally believe it and never have... but it's just as much a feeling as it is a belief based on my own research and thought process.

 

Really? One can say "I'll believe strongly only in those things with strong supporting evidence". Under that principle, you would not believe in god without any evidence of his existence, any more than you would believe in the Tooth Fairy or Santa Claus without evidence. Nothing to do with feeling at all - it's just pure logical reasoning.

 

There's legitimate grounds for debate on how much, if any, evidence there is for god existing. But if there is any rationale for believing in something without any evidence whatsoever, then I have yet to hear it.

[mental_traveller]

Jesus Christ got talked about, chased off, whipped, spat on, kicked, punch, belittled, and ultimately slain on a cross for our sins. Many follows suffer similar torments. We have it A LOT easier today. We just have to deal with those who wish to live a Godless life and berate someone who decides not to. I personally enjoy their ignorance for it helps me to pray for my enemies and show them that though they my treat me bad, I am above that. And funny, where God talks about our enemies being our footstool, there has been many of people who did me wrong and turned around and I was there for them. While yeah, it is hard and sometimes we may loose our cool, it is necessary and a natural outcome for being in a world based on fleshy desires and gratification vice spiritual ones.

 

 

DNR

 

Why do you class unbelievers as your enemies??

[Lovelybird]

They arguing about history

They plugged their head in negativeness

They only saw what people did wrong

 

I am wondering

What the heck that to do with God?

People make mistakes

They do whatever suit them

What the heck that to do with God?

 

God told them to do right

They chose to do wrong

What the heck that to do with God?

 

Do they let human's mistakes block their way to God?

Doesn't make sense

If only they could see what is good

what is pure

what is just

[Sks]

Because we have aircraft carriers and cruise missiles; we don't need to. Islamic terrorists (well, we used to call them freedom fighters when they attacked Russia) blow themselves up because that's all they can really do. For what it's worth, the IRA (Protestant Christians) used to blow up all sorts of things as well. You are quite breathtakingly ignorant of history and the world.

 

Cheers,

D.

 

They weren't freedom fighters, they were tools aginst the soviets nothing else.

 

Sadly those tools had a mind of their own which is causing some problems for us.

 

As I said before, I would choose to be in a Christian community of a Muslim community any day of the week.

 

Seems to me most Muslims either spend their time praying, chanting "death to America/Isreal/who ever else they dislike" or strapping bombs to themselves attempting to kill as many civilians as possible.

 

You can't even write a funny cartoon about Alah without them rioting, burning **** up and putting out fatwa on you.

[Sks]

Christianity is not the same as the current behaviour of Christians. Nor is Islam identical to the current behaviour of Muslims, let alone a small minority of them (only a small few are terrorists).

 

The religions and belief systems can only be compared in their teachings, NOT in the behaviour of their followers. The Nazis had many Christians, after all. The USSR was officially atheist, yet I don't think atheism advocates mass murder or the creation of police states. If the Koran says suicide, or killing of innocents is wrong, then suicide bombing is clearly anti-Islamic. The fact that some Muslims ignore the Koran and do it anyway is not the fault of the Koran or Islamic teaching in that case. Surely that's pretty clear? It's the fault of the person twisting the religion and using it as a veil to justify their own evil actions.

 

The reason doesn't matter, the fact that they do it does. The "moderate" Muslims as you call them could easily stop the extremists but they don't have an interest in doing so.

[disgracian]

Seems to me most Muslims either spend their time praying, chanting "death to America/Isreal/who ever else they dislike" or strapping bombs to themselves attempting to kill as many civilians as possible.

Most? There's 1.6 billion of them. Seems to me you're basing you view of the world on FOX/CNN News snippets of angry Arabs setting fire to things. Don't make the mistake of thinking you know something about the world because you watch news stories.

 

Cheers,

D.

[disgracian]

The reason doesn't matter, the fact that they do it does. The "moderate" Muslims as you call them could easily stop the extremists but they don't have an interest in doing so.

Hey, we could stop our extremist governments from attacking Muslim countries all over the world (we live in a democracy afterall) but we don't.

 

Cheers,

D.

[disgracian]

double post

[Sks]

Hey, we could stop our extremist governments from attacking Muslim countries all over the world (we live in a democracy afterall) but we don't.

 

Cheers,

D.

 

Our governments are superior to pretty much ever single country in the middle east. We are offering them a chance to evolve but as you can see, they don't seem to be interested.

 

Either way America will be staying in the middle east for a long, long time to deal with new threats and handle the current ones.

[disgracian]

Our governments are superior to pretty much ever single country in the middle east. We are offering them a chance to evolve but as you can see, they don't seem to be interested.

Nice troll, but I'm not going to bite. Sorry.

 

Cheers,

D.

[electric_sheep]

I'm agnostic and could care less about prayer in school, I consider the people who are against that unreasonable.

 

When I was in high school, it annoyed me to no end to have say a prayer. I mumbled through it, but it honestly pissed me off. Admittedly, it was the indignation and response of a 14 yo.

 

The thing about NOT saying a prayer is... it ONLY bothers you because you can't now. It's the CHANGE that bothers you. Do you say a prayer before you get in your car to drive to work? Probably not, and you're probably not bothered by this either.

 

From what I understand, you can say a personal prayer. Nobodies stopping you. Why force it on people like me? That's what it felt like when I was in high school. I'd look around and ask myself, "who are all these freakin idiots?" I don't feel that way now, but you know how kids can be. I was born and raised in the south, BTW.

 

You may not have any atheists, agnostics, Muslims, Buddhists, Taoists, Hindus, whatever, in your community now, but it's conceivable you might at one point in the future. You may also have kids like me, born and raised in the South (and fully indoctrinated in all it's absurdity), and they just haven't spoken up. I never spoke up.

[quankanne]

It's the fault of the person twisting the religion and using it as a veil to justify their own evil actions.

 

exactly the point I was trying to make about Christians and the KKK. You've got a group of people who "love" Jesus so much they take and twist Scripture to make themselves the superior group, and their thinking the superior way of thinking, then condone acts of terrorism against the "lesser" people of society. So we people who look different, sound different, act different and worship differently are their targets, even though some of us can claim a common Christian bond. Muslims and Hebrews aren't the only ones with killer kooks among them!

 

and we have a long, sordid history of this: As d-lish points out, there were the Crusades. There was the period when Christian conquerors trampled whole cultures because they wanted the "heathen" people of a nation they "discovered" to know and love Jesus. Think of the ancient native tribes of the Americas who were forced to convert – often in a bloody manner – to the faith of these raiders. And think of all the richness of culture that was lost with it. Hell, my own people didn't fully convert until the 1500s, and only then because of divine intervention.

 

so don't think Christianity is exempt from examples of bad behavior. We don't see it so much in contemporary times, but it exists. The same way peace-loving people among the Muslim faith exist ...

[electric_sheep]

I think Sks's words are inflammatory and an oversimplification, but at the same time has political correctness got us so hogtied that we can't speak our minds honestly anymore?

 

Their certainly are other terrorist groups in the world, but the terrorists in the Middle East have put a new twist on things. Not only are civilians legitimate targets, but they frequently blow themselves up in the process. This might not be unique in all of history, but it isn't exactly commonplace in todays world. It would be somewhat absurd to try and pretend it's no different from say, the Basque movement in Spain, for example.

 

It's also ludicrous to pretend there is no difference in our societies, in our worldviews or values. Skepticism and doubt have infused Western society to a large degree, for better or for worse. So now, for example, only 72% of Catholic's would even say they are "certain" about the existence of God. 56% of the US population would say that religion is "very" important in their lives. Compare that with 72% of Muslims (and that's Muslims in the US!).

 

This data comes from a survey posted on beliefnet.com. According to them, the group most similar to evangelical protestants are Muslims. So, the typical population of an Islamic country is not too dissimilar to a church full of evangelicals.

 

The "skepticism" that has become characteristic of Western life may have left some of us in an existential crisis, but at the same time it limits the number of recruits willing to blow themselves up on the promise of 70 virgins. Let us not forget, too, that the majority in the West Bank and Gaza is NOT condemning these suicide bombers. In fact, if anything, their culture actually encourages it.

 

You know, the more I think about it, I think it's best for all concerned when faith is leavened by a little doubt. Absolute faith can be a scary thing.

 

I consider myself a liberal, but my heart isn't exactly bleeding, and sometimes you just have to face the music. Reality has a way of trumping political correctness. Of course, it's never good to APPLY a stereotype to an individual without getting to know them. People are unique. But, we don't have to act like silly hippies and pretend everything is love and roses either. As a Westerner, I have serious issues with many aspects of Islamic culture as I see it practiced in countries like Saudi Arabia... chopping peoples hands off and stoning them to death just being two.