disgracian Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 H&H, I say this kindly. Some here do probably deserve your righteous indignation, but IMO Geishawhelk is not one of them. That would be me. I am equally blunt and rude, so I'm sure that we'd get along great (aside from the pesky fact that I play for the other team). Cheers, D. Link to post Share on other sites
Enema Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 That would be me. I am equally blunt and rude, so I'm sure that we'd get along great (aside from the pesky fact that I play for the other team). Cheers, D. Orly? Link to post Share on other sites
disgracian Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 Not that other team! Cheers, D. Link to post Share on other sites
Geishawhelk Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 I don't recall you having ever been blunt and rude to me. Link to post Share on other sites
sb129 Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 Or me. Your arguments are usually pretty to the point, and intelligent. I am on your team too. I had someone else in mind that lets the atheist side down. Link to post Share on other sites
JamesM Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 That would be me. I am equally blunt and rude, so I'm sure that we'd get along great (aside from the pesky fact that I play for the other team). Cheers, D. NO! You rude and blunt? At least it helps when we recognize ourselves. Seriously, it is easy for any of us to get that way because we do not always realize how our words are being perceived by someone who disagrees with us. It is usually not those who agree with us that would notice. Hi, sb129, and thank you. Back to point at hand. I think many times Christians or atheists feel berated here because they often times do not realize how someone who disagrees with them can view their reasoning for their beliefs. If I have come to the conclusion based on my research that there is a God, then I may find it difficult to believe that someone may have a different conclusion. So, when I state why I believe in God with my reasoning and it is "shot full of holes," then it may seem as if that person is being rude and derisive. Yet in reality when I argue with the person who does not believe there is a God, my own rational and non-judgmental thoughts (well, at least in my eyes) can easily come off as rude and insensitive to someone who disagrees. It is true that Christians are berated, but it is equally true IMO as seen on this board at times, that atheists and agnostics are also berated for their apparent (IMO) "stupidity." Link to post Share on other sites
sb129 Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 Who you calling stoopid? Link to post Share on other sites
sb129 Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 One thing that I have come realise while being a member of LS, is that it is highly unlikely that I am going to be able to change the minds of many people about a few things, esp religion. By the same token, although I have been known to change an opinion or two here and there, with all due respect, my belief that there is no god is not going to be changed by anyone on here. So, like D-Lish, i tend to stay away from the argumentative threads now, as it doesn't achieve very much. Link to post Share on other sites
Geishawhelk Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 Without banging my particular drum, the most important thing, as far as I'm concerned is that, if ever I encountered Disgracian, sb129, JamesM, moose, HaloandHorns or anyone, lying wounded in the road, the last question on my mind would be "I'm sorry, do you believe in God, or are you Atheist?" For my part, the most vital thing to recognise is that we're engaging with other human beings just like us, first and foremost. In fact, I would think that if we saw someone in obvious physical distress, our first thought would be to help them. We have not a first clue about the person we're dealing with... he might be bleeding from a head wound, unco-ordinated and confused, and in need of help. If we find out from police later that he was a wanted burglar, and was on the run, would that make us regret helping them? Of course not. That information is superfluous.... The fact that we can't see each other, we know virtually nothing about one another (even if we post our life stories, just how much can we know, without a fully-rounded picture?) and we have no visual, no body language, no gesture to help us create a perception, is actually MORE important with how we engage with one another, not less.... We have lives away from the keyboard. There are problems that beset us, issue we have to deal with, arguments to be won, and business to be done. We have relationship dynamics to deal with all the time, and sometimes, the forum we discuss stuff on, is a refuge from the cares and woes of the day. so it's good to think of all these words coming from people...people with a body and mind just like ours people with a heart, and emotions, and needs just like ours. Who knows who they all are? How can we link with thjem, and 'join hands'? Simple. Look in the mirror. Everyone is just like you. And if you think you deserve love, respect, compassion, kindness, politeness and dignity... why should they be any less deserving? _/l\_ Link to post Share on other sites
sb129 Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 Thank you GW. I would do the same for you. I like the Buddhist way of thinking. Link to post Share on other sites
jon01 Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 I have a question, not to start a huge dispute or anything, but how come when God is brought up in a thread here, all these people that obviously know nothing about God or the Christian faith have to pop in with their disdainful and discourteous remarks concerning a person's faith in the Lord? Maybe they're Muslims in disguise. Link to post Share on other sites
electric_sheep Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 One thing that I have come realise while being a member of LS, is that it is highly unlikely that I am going to be able to change the minds of many people about a few things, esp religion. By the same token, although I have been known to change an opinion or two here and there, with all due respect, my belief that there is no god is not going to be changed by anyone on here. So, like D-Lish, i tend to stay away from the argumentative threads now, as it doesn't achieve very much. Someone's believe about something like that essentially forms the entire framework from which they view existence. It is their worldview. Everything they experience is seen in it's context. It's quite unlikely that someone will just change overnight, after reading a couple of internet threads. My own personal journey towards agnosticism took years. It probably started when I was 13 or 14, and wasn't fully shaped until I was in my early 20's. Link to post Share on other sites
Moose Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 Someone's believe about something like that essentially forms the entire framework from which they view existence. It is their worldview. Everything they experience is seen in it's context. It's quite unlikely that someone will just change overnight, after reading a couple of internet threads. My own personal journey towards agnosticism took years. It probably started when I was 13 or 14, and wasn't fully shaped until I was in my early 20's.No offense intended here, but I totally dis-agree. I've witness a complete 180 in many, MANY people, (including myself) who've finally accepted Christ and changed immediately. So yes, in my opinion anyway, someone's belief can be flipped instantly. Link to post Share on other sites
electric_sheep Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 That was a sect created by a deranged man who recruited his entire family as his congregation. He picketed at the funerals of gays first, then at the funeral of our fallen soldiers. He and his entire family are full of crap and that isn't the way they would want to be treated. Anybody who pickets anyones funeral is an *******. I don't care whose funeral it is. Even Hitlers. Funerals should be a time for reflection, not protest. If the deceased was a great person, then perhaps they should be a time for celebration. In the case of Hitler, they should be a time for relief (that he is gone), and perhaps disappointment and sadness (that the universe could create such a callous monster in the first place). Link to post Share on other sites
sb129 Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 No offense intended here, but I totally dis-agree. I've witness a complete 180 in many, MANY people, (including myself) who've finally accepted Christ and changed immediately. So yes, in my opinion anyway, someone's belief can be flipped instantly. There are also people on here who believed, and then changed their minds. What I meant was I am not going to take it upon myself to try and change anyones mind anymore. About alot of things, not just religion. And I would just like to clarify in my last post when I said this By the same token, although I have been known to change an opinion or two here and there, I meant I have changed my opinion. I don't know if I have changed anyone elses. Link to post Share on other sites
electric_sheep Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 No offense intended here, but I totally dis-agree. I've witness a complete 180 in many, MANY people, (including myself) who've finally accepted Christ and changed immediately. So yes, in my opinion anyway, someone's belief can be flipped instantly. Yeah, I've seen this too. I bet it's more common for people to "find" faith instantly, though, than to loose it instantly. Maybe I'm just the type of person who likes to try out an idea for a while before committing. I always wondered about the dynamics of these conversions. It seems like in most of these cases, the person had some prior experience or education in the belief system in question. So, there was some familiarity there. I agree that this isn't always the case though, which is even more puzzling to me. Whenever the Mormon's come to my door, I often wonder what sort of person could just suddenly take the leap of faith necessary to believe things which many(most) other people would find slightly absurd (magic glasses, Jesus teaching to the Indians, pre-industrial submarine type vehicles, etc...). I don't mean to pick on Mormons, certainly, because most religions have stories and traditions which are pretty far out there to the uninitiated. Any Mormons out there reading this... feel free to laugh at me for being skeptical. A good friend of mine and I went to the Church of Scientology up in DC and watched their introductory movie. I find it incredible to think that people could watch it and it could just "click" for them immediately, but I won't deny this happens. Link to post Share on other sites
Enema Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 I always wondered about the dynamics of these conversions. It seems like in most of these cases, the person had some prior experience or education in the belief system in question. So, there was some familiarity there. It's amazing how easily people can be swayed to believe something completely irrational. For example, this video shows Derren Brown converting a roomful of atheists into believers instantly just to show you how easy it is: http://youtube.com/watch?v=-DylNVUN_3I Link to post Share on other sites
sb129 Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 It's amazing how easily people can be swayed to believe something completely irrational. For example, this video shows Derren Brown converting a roomful of atheists into believers instantly just to show you how easy it is: http://youtube.com/watch?v=-DylNVUN_3I Good video- I really like Derren Browns stuff, some of the stuff he gets people to do is amazing..... Link to post Share on other sites
ChefDan.g/vo Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 I'm pretty sure it's backlash from years of religious oppression. Just like there are alot of blacks that still harbor a disdain for whites. its like if you're getting beaten on in a fight then the other person backs off for a minute you jump up and counter attack. The odd thing is, in this situation. christians used to beat down on athiests and some still do. However society finally said "hey you cant do that" so they backed off. Now we got some athiests who jumped up and proceeded to go after christians without realizing the same thing applied to them, and others who were happy just to not be getting beat up anymore. personally I'm agnostic, but I tend to side with christians because of all of the flack I see genuinly good christians take. I find that alot of athiests who dont know what they're talking about never actually opened up a dictionary to look up the definition of what "faith" meant. My main problem with alot of athiests is that alot of them talk like they know everything there is to know about spirituality and the universe. Link to post Share on other sites
sb129 Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 I find that alot of athiests who dont know what they're talking about never actually opened up a dictionary to look up the definition of what "faith" meant. My main problem with alot of athiests is that alot of them talk like they know everything there is to know about spirituality and the universe. I can appreciate why you feel like this, and there are people on both sides of the fence who think they know everything there is to know. I definitely don't know everything, and I have no problem with faith per se, its just not something I personally need to live my life. Its when "faith" is used as a label for terrible activities that I have a problem with it. Link to post Share on other sites
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