Will I ever be able to go out again?

[sunshinegirl]

I hope that when I start learning how to play the fiddle I can eventually work up the courage to ask him to speak to me again. I know it will take a lot of years before I'm good enough to ask him to give me the time of day, but hey, a girl can dream, right?

 

Sweetie, let's say you spend the next year, two years, three years becoming a fiddle player. What are you going to do when you present your new fiddling self to your ex and he still rejects you?

 

You are attempting to twist yourself into something you are not and don't have independent passion for in hopes of winning the approval of someone else. When and why did this one human being gain so much power that he alone is the arbiter of your worth in life?

 

Oh goodness, sedg. I wish you could even see your distorted thinking. You don't even see all of it. It took me many years to get over my parents-sleeping-with-ex-boyfriend, but once I did it became laughably obvious what a messed up human being he was. I am so much better off, so much happier, without him in my life. Today, he means nothing to me and nothing about him affects who I am or how I see myself.

 

To be clear, there is often a period post-breakup where we question our self-worth. I am still doing that a bit with my current ex. But in time I trust that I will come to see that he left me for reasons that have nothing to do with me and that our relationship not working out is absolutely no reflection on who I am. Hell, my friends and family are of the unanimous opinion that he didn't deserve me and wasn't worthy of me and was a crappy partner for me! And now, I am holding on to THEIR confidence in my worth until such time as I deeply believe it again about myself.

 

You have a truckload of people on LS and I suspect even more people in real life who see how worthy you are and what a dick your ex is. It is up to you, now, to decide whether you will work on changing your thinking patterns and start listening to those around you who have clear vision and see things as they actually were, and are.

 

The prison you're in is what you've constructed for yourself...and only you have the keys to break free.

[Lishy]

I agree that you have put yourself in a prison that only you can free yourelf from!

 

Sedge I worry for you

 

You are so spot on when you give advice to others - It is horrible to witness you telling untruths about yourself and putting yourself down

 

I could personally slap this skinny dude for doing this to you!!!!!!!!!!

[flosslight]

I find you interesting Sedgwick. I love to dance and I think about writing but I do not.Most people I know find artistic people interesting.

 

I play the bass. It is the upright bass and I consider myself a musician. Not a great one but one that plays with a local symphony. I love art and artists no matter the medium.

 

I also know tons of musicians and wow, sometimes I amazed. There are ones that play by ear and I still struggle with playing happy birthday. I can play Dvorak and Bach if you give me the music but I cannot play three blind mice without struggling so hard. There are people who are composers and I think they are so talented.

 

I also know many music teachers and most are poor. They are also great people. I was a horrible student. I practiced like once a month and I had weekly lessons. My teacher was so great. There are plenty of teachers out there who will be willing to teach you because they love music and wish others to enjoy it. They also enjoy the money but really it is about the music. I would also pick an instrument that you like because you will have to spend a lot of time with it. I find fiddles to high pitch to play all the time. It is all about what your ear enjoys.

 

Also, why wait a year? Tell yourself that you can you can go to some event this month! Pick something in July and tell yourself you can go. Don't take other people if you do not want to. Just take yourself to an art museum or something, and do it for you and no one else.

[Star Gazer]

As I have said many times before, I do very much believe that it was the truth.

 

But it's NOT the truth.

[sedgwick]

I play the bass. It is the upright bass and I consider myself a musician.

 

That's what he plays too! Okay, so tell me: is it the most difficult, intellectually challenging thing you've ever done in your whole life? Do you think that playing the upright bass is harder than dancing, writing, and making your own clothes? Do you have to be smarter and more talented to play the upright bass than to write a book or dance? That's the thing, I have no frame of reference. So all I can assume is that the upright bass is the pinnacle of human talent and skill.

 

Is it really, really difficult? I need to know. I need to understand what it is about the upright bass that is more challenging and impressive than selling a book or getting into a bellydance company. I really need to try to make sense of this.

 

He is OBSESSED with the fiddle and only wants an old-time fiddle player for a gf (not bluegrass, not classical violin, but OLD-TIME.) One of the fiddle players who dumped him for making her feel like such a shi*ty fiddle player has been playing since the age of three and was in the Harvard-Radcliffe orchestra. So is fiddle even harder than bass, or is bass, like, the thing violinists dream of being able to play? Right now I'm kind of looking at playing bass as being akin to rocket science or brain surgery. It took me a year and a half to be able to do forward and reverse undulations interchangeably, and he couldn't do them -- couldn't even bend over and touch his toes, whereas I can put my feet behind my head -- but still that didn't seem to mean anything to him. So that makes me think that actually bellydance is really simple and it's only hard for me because I'm untalented and stupid. If it was actually difficult or beautiful, like I thought, he'd have given a sh*t about it, right?

 

What's so confusing to me is that other bellydancers seem to sometimes think it's difficult too. I did a workshop with Suhaila (goddess of the known universe) a few weeks ago where she was layering forward and reverse undulations over regular cabaret shimmies, with glute shimmies layered on top of that, AND playing the zils and keeping perfect rhythm. To me, that's just insanely, inhumanly difficult. I mean, to keep the beat AND dance? But I guess it's actually no biggie, because it didn't mean anything to him. That's what's got me so confused. I mean, like, I also thought it was difficult to sell a book, but I guess it's not.

 

And that's why I'm so fu*king confused. A couple of weeks ago I was reading an article in the NY Times Review of Books where the author referred to memoirs as "The M Word" -- meaning publishers weren't buying them post-James Frey and Margaret Seltzer. It said that the time of memoirs passed several years ago and they were all but impossible to sell these days. And yet, I sold mine, for what I understand was a good price. I mean, Publisher's Lunch says it was a good deal. My publisher only bought two memoirs in '07 -- and the other was by a guy who was in a secret CIA think tank at the beginning of the Iraq war. So objectively, it would seem that I did something impressive -- but it wasn't enough to keep the man I love interested in the slightest. Thus, the only conclusion I can come up with is that actually none of this stuff really means much of anything, and playing the bass is where it's at.

[Nevermind]

Do you think that playing the upright bass is harder than dancing, writing, and making your own clothes?

 

Unless flosslight is doing all that, how could he answer it? You asked those questions so often, and you always get the same replies. Why not listen for a change?

 

I need to understand what it is about the upright bass that is more challenging and impressive than selling a book or getting into a bellydance company. I really need to try to make sense of this.

But you're not trying to make sense of the fact that your ex used a simple excuse for the fact that he didn't want to be with you anymore. People don't need reasons. Feelings come, feelings go. He isn't an idiot for leaving you, but for treating you the way he did during the relationship and after.

[sedgwick]

Unless flosslight is doing all that, how could he answer it? You asked those questions so often, and you always get the same replies. Why not listen for a change?

 

I've never had an upright bass player answer my questions before!! I guess I just assume that bass players are like the height of human talent and intelligence and knowledge and therefore they are the arbiters of what art forms are and are not worthwhile.

 

I really, truly, honest to god, with all my heart and soul, believe that he DID dump me because I am not an old-time fiddle player. I really believe that with everything in me. I sincerely, with everything in me, think he just got bored because what I do is not as difficult or impressive as the bass.

[sunshinegirl]

It took me a year and a half to be able to do forward and reverse undulations interchangeably, and he couldn't do them -- couldn't even bend over and touch his toes, whereas I can put my feet behind my head -- but still that didn't seem to mean anything to him. So that makes me think that actually bellydance is really simple and it's only hard for me because I'm untalented and stupid. If it was actually difficult or beautiful, like I thought, he'd have given a sh*t about it, right?

 

It is blindingly obvious upon reading this that he devalued it because he can't do it. Which speaks to HIS major self-esteem issues and the reason why he puts the ONE thing he has any talent at as the pinnacle of human achievement. What is astounding is that you have bought it, hook line and sinker.

 

What you're describing - undulations etc - is totally impressive, and anyone comfortable with themselves would have expressed appreciation and admiration for what you can do that they can't.

[Nevermind]

I really, truly, honest to god, with all my heart and soul, believe that he DID dump me because I am not an old-time fiddle player.

 

And what is your ideal person? No, don't answer it's your ex. Descripe a person that doesn't exist and has it all.

[sedgwick]

What you're describing - undulations etc - is totally impressive, and anyone comfortable with themselves would have expressed appreciation and admiration for what you can do that they can't.

 

See, last night I was watching that goofy bellydance-fitness show "Shimmy," because some other bellydancers were laughing about it at this Middle Eastern dance festival where my company just performed, and they spent like half the show on on-toe Mayas and Ghawazee hands. I was like, really? Don't people get totally bored with this after five minutes? But then I remembered a class I taught in Mexico where I literally had my hands on the backs of a girl's knees, pressing against them alternately so she'd maybe be able to feel the beat. She just couldn't. Mayas with Ghawazee hands would have been beyond her. And I know there was a time when I used to lie in bed with my hands on my belly every night just trying to isolate upper and lower abdominal contractions, and a time when I had to stand against the wall to do an undulation. But then I had this person come along who wouldn't have me because that, and writing and making clothes and shooting film, were all I knew how to do.

 

So now I'm having this huge mental conflict over why they would put that easy stuff on that show. If bellydance is so easy, why not just dive right into layering and zils? This is really perplexing the sh*t out of me. I mean, he used to ask me to do belly rolls when I was lying underneath him because he ostensibly thought it felt cool, but I guess it actually didn't and that was just another lie. It's all so confusing, I just can't wrap my brain around any of it.

 

And what is your ideal person? No, don't answer it's your ex. Descripe a person that doesn't exist and has it all.

 

Well, he exists, but my ideal person? Jim White (http://www.jimwhite.net), who actually happens to be blurbing my book, which is seriously exciting, provided he likes it and doesn't just say it sucks, which he very well could -- I mean, he is a musician, after all! I guess maybe I shouldn't have even asked. Or maybe the writer Richard Powers. I'd do Richard Powers if for no other reason than his vocabulary.

[Nevermind]

I asked for a description. If he exists, fine. But I want to hear your reasons.

[sedgwick]

And what is your ideal person? No, don't answer it's your ex. Descripe a person that doesn't exist and has it all.

 

1. He's an amazing storyteller. I refer to him as "the Flannery O'Connor of our time."

 

2. He's freakin' GORGEOUS. Like, GORGEOUS. As evidenced here:http://youtube.com/watch?v=8OfEPETKrw4

 

3. He's hilarious.

 

4. He's not afraid to be married or have a family (not that I want kids, I just want someone who's not TERRIFIED of the prospect.)

 

5. He's an amazing musician.

 

6. He writes his own songs.

 

7. He laughs a lot.

 

8. He reads a lot.

 

9. He has a list of favorite films on his website that are relatively obscure, and Onibaba is among them.

 

10. He has a big vocabulary.

 

That's just a beginning...

[Nevermind]

Okay. Now take those 9 points and tell me what your boyfriend is compared to each one.

[sedgwick]

1. He's an amazing storyteller. I refer to him as "the Flannery O'Connor of our time."

 

(He doesn't do it professionally, but I love hearing him tell stories.)

 

 

2. He's freakin' GORGEOUS. Like, GORGEOUS. As evidenced here:http://youtube.com/watch?v=8OfEPETKrw4

 

(He's the most physically attractive person I've ever actually met. Bald, emaciated, and smelly, with his glasses intermittently held together by visible paper clips and Super Glue, but gorgeous.)

 

3. He's hilarious.

 

(Totally hilarious!)

 

4. He's not afraid to be married or have a family (not that I want kids, I just want someone who's not TERRIFIED of the prospect.)

 

(Utterly and totally terrified and rejecting of both.)

 

5. He's an amazing musician.

 

(Definitely. AT LEAST as good a musician!)

 

6. He writes his own songs.

 

(Nope. Not interested. He'd rather play "Turkey in the Straw" for the 90 millionth time, but do it DIFFERENTLY.)

 

7. He laughs a lot.

 

(Yup!)

 

8. He reads a lot.

 

(Not really. He doesn't have time. I think we had one conversation about books once -- no, two. He told me when he read Freakonomics and something by Paul Auster. He liked both.)

 

9. He has a list of favorite films on his website that are relatively obscure, and Onibaba is among them.

 

(Knows zip about film, and certainly nothing about 1960s Japanese art films.)

 

10. He has a big vocabulary.

 

(Not really, not any bigger than anyone else's. He also makes grievous syntactical errors, such as, "Skip and I's apartment.")

 

And yet...he's 99.9% perfect. So perfect he floats.

[Nevermind]

How do you feel about that comparison?

 

How come he is 99% perfect, if he failed 50% of the ideal man?

[sedgwick]

How do you feel about that comparison?

 

How come he is 99% perfect, if he failed 50% of the ideal man?

 

Because he's himself, and I accept and love him totally and completely for exactly the person he is -- which is, to me, 99.9% perfect. Hey, I'm deducting 1/10th of a point for the grammatical errors, okay? I do have SOME capacity for rational thought.

 

I remember once he had to write something that had to be two pages, and it was four, and he asked me to edit for him. I took it and got it down to two pages within the hour, and corrected the spelling and grammar. He said, "Damn, you're really good at that." But even that wasn't enough. Even my being able to do something he couldn't, still, it wasn't enough that he could actually APPRECIATE it or anything. That's why nothing in my head makes sense anymore.

[Nevermind]

Look, you don't even know what he did appreciate and what not.

 

In this story - you did something for him and he commented on how well you did it. The devaluation is coming from you.

 

---

 

I don't know why you can't focus on being with somebody who actually does come close to your ideal. Somebody who is there for you and wants you completely (with the dancing, the knitting and the writing). Why you want to be accepted where you could find love...is beyond me.

 

Why not learn from this relationship? Take some good memories and leave it? Why beat yourself over things that were not bad? (Like this last example.)

[sailing]

I honestly think he's just completely and totally clueless. Whether it's due to a personality disorder or autism or whatever the hell, he has some serious deficits in his people skills. I am exhausted from trying to figure him out. I'm glad to know he doesn't hate me and hasn't forgotten me. Because I know that, I feel like maybe I can let go of trying to understand him.

 

In the past year, I've made tremendous strides. This breakup really pushed me out of my comfort zone and forced me to grow as a person. I learned what I was capable of. I would never have run off to the jungle alone if he hadn't broken my heart, and now I know I can run off to the jungle alone. That's a major thing to know about oneself. I also know I can write a book no matter what. Even through tremendous heartbreak I have continued writing and dancing. I've learned so much about myself, and he's still touring like a maniac, just like he was when last we spoke. He still clams up when I try to talk to him. He hasn't learned anything about communication or taking responsibility for his actions.

 

Hello, apologies for chipping in. I have not actually read the whole thread, or previously replied to you, but I just wanted to remind you of how you were writing/thinking last month. An altogether more realistic appraisal of both his shortcomings and your achievements, I would say. I hope you regain that kind of clarity before long, and I wish you the best of luck.

[sedgwick]

In this story - you did something for him and he commented on how well you did it. The devaluation is coming from you.

 

I don't know why you can't focus on being with somebody who actually does come close to your ideal. Somebody who is there for you and wants you completely (with the dancing, the knitting and the writing). Why you want to be accepted where you could find love...is beyond me.

 

I'm going to assume that last sentence actually means "Why you WOULDN'T want to be accepted..." and respond to it with what I said before: I will never attempt a relationship again. I could love someone with all my heart, but I wouldn't tell him, because I wouldn't want to bug him. I feel like the nicest thing I could do to anyone I might love in the future is leave him alone and not even let him know I exist.

 

And yeah, he commented on how well I did something, but IT MEANT NOTHING TO HIM. It wasn't enough to keep him around. I wasn't good ENOUGH at it. I need to be better. I wasn't enough. Maybe if I had been as good a writer/editor as his ex, THEN he would have still loved me, but I didn't do it WELL ENOUGH, and I am beyond humiliated by that.

 

And yeah, I know I was thinking more rationally three weeks ago. C'est la vie. With every day that passes, I realize more and more that he is perfectly okay with not being my friend, not being with me, not knowing me at all. And my stomach is just in knots trying to figure out what I could do to be special enough. I just can't figure it out, and it makes me utterly disgusted with myself and my shortcomings as a person.

[Nevermind]

I'm going to assume that last sentence actually means "Why you WOULDN'T want to be accepted..."

 

Yes, sorry. It's late and my English goes down the drain when I'm sleepy.

------------------------------------

 

People.Break.Up.All.The.Time.

 

It doesn't mean that their partners weren't good enough for them. If he said something nice to you, then chances are that he meant it at that moment. You have no reason to question every single second of this relationship, simply because it ended. This is unhealthy, irrational, and self-degrading. You're only hurting yourself, sedge and you're very far from the truth.

 

I could love someone with all my heart, but I wouldn't tell them, because I wouldn't want to bug them.

And with this you're potentially hurting them. If you love somebody, and they love you, yet you chose to bury your feelings...then they will suffer from your emotional unavailability.

[sedgwick]

And with this you're potentially hurting them. If you love somebody, and they love you, yet you chose to bury your feelings...then they will suffer from your emotional unavailability.

 

Well then thank god I'm unlovable, huh? I know that way that I'll never hurt anyone, and I am sincerely thankful for that. I honestly, truly, with all my heart believe that I am not worthy of love and I will never have it again. I'm just trying to figure out how to live my life given that that's the situation. I have to figure out how to be happy even though I know I'm totally repulsive to men.

 

I think it is a positive thing that I will never bother anyone with my affections again. That way, nobody will ever again have to weasel their way out of knowing me. This is part of the reason I'm thankful to him for teaching me how worthless I am. I really am grateful!!! I think he did me a huge favor by shattering my illusion that I might be as good as other people. Now I know my place and I won't get all delusions-of-grandeur-y and try talking to guys again.

[Nevermind]

I am not going to reply to this anymore.

 

You're far too intelligent to be writing this complete and utter nonsense. I am not even empathic here, as it reader I am appaled by this lack of logic in your sentences.

 

If beating yourself up is easier than facing life...then do what you have to do.

 

I would like to offer any help, but apparently I am unable. Sorry to have bothered.

[sunshinegirl]

Has any part of your therapy regime looked at your family of origin patterns?

 

I am starting to suspect that the depths of your self-flagellation come from something much deeper than just your ex. Did your relationship with him replicate some relationship from your past where you wanted approval and acceptance but couldn't get it?

 

I've been doing a lot of work in counseling recently, and have uncovered some very surprising dynamics with my parents that have affected how I choose (dysfunctional) men, and how I feel about myself when those relationships have ended.

[sedgwick]

I am starting to suspect that the depths of your self-flagellation come from something much deeper than just your ex. Did your relationship with him replicate some relationship from your past where you wanted approval and acceptance but couldn't get it?

 

Well, of COURSE. I mean, isn't blaming one's parents sort of the classic cliche of psychology? Of COURSE our insecurities in our adult relationships come from the unattended insecurities of our childhood ones! Of COURSE my parents f*cked me up -- whose didn't? That's kinda psych 101!

 

It's not like I haven't thought all this to death. It's not like I've never asked myself, "Hey, could my current thoughts now be coming from something that happened in my past?" I do at least have some modicum of brainwave activity. I promise you guys that when I tell you I've studied psychology, I mean that I've read more than one chapter in a freshman-level textbook. Please, please, please just at least give me that much credit. It seems like everyone's ready and willing to either armchair-psychoanalyze me, as if I could never have possibly come to these extremely basic assumptions on my own, or suggest these incredibly basic and obvious reasons for why I might be feeling this way. I PROMISE I'VE THOUGHT ABOUT THIS STUFF. I promise I'm not someone sitting here going, "Golly gee whiz, I wonder if my parents might possibly have had anything to do with this?"

 

Nevermind, I'm so sorry you feel that this is just me beating myself up. I wish I could make you understand how really and truly worthless I am. If you met me, I promise you'd see, just like he did!

[Nevermind]

Well, of COURSE. I mean, isn't blaming one's parents sort of the classic cliche of psychology? Of COURSE our insecurities in our adult relationships come from the unattended insecurities of our childhood ones! Of COURSE my parents f*cked me up -- whose didn't? That's kinda psych 101!

 

Sunshinegirl was trying to help you...