He thinks he can just walk in and out of my life...........

[ladyinlimbo]

Hello Everyone,

 

My first post here.

 

I'm 40 (turn 41 in a week). I'd been in a long term relationship with a guy who's 4.5 yrs younger (he's now 36). It was a very stressful and rocky relationship. We were together for 1 year but I left the relationship several times (though usually for only a couple of weeks before he'd manipulate me to come back) because of the way he was treating me: very selfish, always picking at me, lies, never made me feel that he really loved me, expected me to make all the effort in the relationship while he was very complacent and lazy, he was impossible to communicate with, he belittled my feelings, etc. He was also caught on dating sites while we were together and when confronted he'd twist it around by saying i had 'trust issues' (yeah, right) and that he did that only because he was curious/bored - and that "it's just the internet, it's no big deal" (ironically, that's how we originally met - on a dating site)

 

The stress of the relationship seriously caused me to lose 25 lbs. I could never 'get through' to him. Any time I tried to communicate with him, he'd belittle my feelings or concerns - and basically tell me "it's not an issue, conversation over." He'd become passive-aggressive sometimes, too. I ended up resorting to using email to communicate with him -- but mostly he'd mock me by saying "do you really think I read what you write?" He is the type to just sweep things under the rug and if it's not an issue to him, it's just not an issue.

 

Last August, when things were good between us - and we were 4 days away from leaving for a week long camping trip down south - I come home from work to an email in which he tells me "it's over, I'm not happy with you." I was devastated. He gave me no reasons. As it turns out, the reason he did this was because his Mom was coming down to spend a week with him and he decided he wanted to take her on this camping trip instead - and didn't want her to know he was back with me (he always wanted to keep me a secret from his family, which was very hurtful to me - his reasoning: my personal life is none of their business).....so what better way than to just dump me to get me out of the picture...........then as expected, a day after he returned with Mommy, he was calling and emailing, like nothing had happened, wanting to go for dinner and basically just carry on like nothing had happened. I told him then if he EVER did that to me again, I was gone.

 

Then his past November, things were good......we were seriously making plans to sell our respective homes and buy one together (of course he knew I'd never do that unless he made a proper commitment to me - we'd have to be engaged first). Then the same thing happens; I come home from work and there's an email telling me "it's over, I'm done this time." This time I was more angry than devastated. Of course a few days later, he starts to mail me like nothing had happened, wanting to go for dinner. It made me so angry at how he could just push me out of his life so easily then try to get me back. I have treated him, truly, like gold. I've always been his biggest supporter, someone who showed my love to him, who did things to make his life easier, who treated him with respect and loyalty...and this is what I got in return. I stayed angry for some time....I needed to, to keep myself from getting sucked back in. I had to stay true to myself; the promise to myself that if he ever dumped me like that again, that that was it for me.

 

Over the past 8 months he's continued to mail me (for the record, we live 5 minutes apart), to want to get together. He's continued to be active on the dating sites (though I joined back up there too). I've resisted out of love for myself because with him, nothing changes.

 

A year ago he promised me that he loved me and wanted us to make a life together; to not just talk about it but to make it happen......but over time I realized these were all just manipulative words to suck me back in and keep me hanging on. I think he thrives on breaking up and getting back together because when we get back together, then he's not expected to make a commitment to me.......because we're "just starting over from the beginning." Starting over is great for him -- he gets the girlfriend, the best friend, the camping buddy, the sex, all the perks of a faithful partner but he doesn't have to give anything in return.

 

In the beginning of our relationship he made it very clear that he hated dating - he was looking for the "one" person to settle down with, marry, have a family with.............basically he was looking for the same things as me. What a crock.

 

He recently begged me to meet with him (for the 57th time) so we could "talk" and this time I agreed - because I wanted to hear the BS he had to say. He's so famous for telling me "we need to talk" but when I agree, suddenly he's got nothing to say - it's all just a ruse. So we meet and go for a walk. He asks me "why is it we can't get along?"..........I tell him "go back and read the 300 emails I've written to you - it's all right there. He then smuggly reminds me he really hasn't ever read my emails..just basically "glossed over them."

 

So feeling like a stuck record, I list some of the issues. Just like clockwork, he minimizes these issues of "mine"....is quick to tell me they're "not issues" and why do I need to keep bringing up the past..........he just wants us to have "fun" and not "fret" about things. So once again, he just wants to sweep things under the rug and never deal with the issues that have always been there............he just wants me to forget the things he's done and said that have hurt me. I tell him I don't know how I could ever trust him again -- on so many levels..........particularly that down the road I won't come home to another email that says "I'm done." I don't think he gets that. He is so full of himself, he doesn't have the maturity or insight to see that his behavior has really impacted my ability to trust him.

 

He's yet to say "I'm sorry" for having hurt you. It's as if he has no conscience and is able to just block things out. He claims now "I can't even remember what happened in November, we must have been fighting" (justifying his reason for dumping me out of the blue then). We hadn't been fighting.

 

He wants to just carry on like nothing had happened. Already has plans for us to camping this coming weekend. Just go back to having "fun". I have a lot of hurt and I alot of mistrust. It's been 19 months since we first started going out and I feel I've wasted so much precious time. I'm now turning 41 and my lifelong desire to find a good man, marry, have a child -- that's all gone out the window. He's fine with the fact that I am getting too old to have a child, says it doesnt matter to him (of course it doesn't, he already has a daughter - she's 2 yrs old and lives with her mom in another part of the country). It breaks my heart that I'm at the stage/age where I'm getting too old.............and he's so blaze and apathetic about it. It was a year ago he was making plans about us buying a home together, us having our first baby, figuring out how much our combined income would be if I was on Maternity Leave for a year...........he lead me to believe we were planning a real life together but look where it ended up? He manipulated me and misrespresented what he wanted with me. All talk no action. Fine for him, he's 36 and can have more kids.........but I am 41. Had he been the man he portrayed, by now we'd be married with a family on the way -- but he's been content to just break up and then get back together.

 

Plus, he once told me that he doesn't see why marriage is important - does a couple really need a 'piece of paper' to show their commitment? He did say he could see marrying if they had children.........but now that i've told him I feel I'm too old to considering have a child, why would he even want to marry? Do I waste more of my life on a man who is really just looking for fun and someone to cater to him and be his Edith Bunker? I think he sees me as someone who will help him acquire the lifestyle (big fancy house) but not as someone to make a real life with. He accused me the other night of just wanting "the white picket fence"........so? Why shouldn't I? I have a great career, my own home, I have a good head on my shoulders............I have worked very hard in my life to be successful. It's no secret I want to settle down and make a life with someone.......I was open about wanting this from the very start. I don't need a man to make me whole or put a roof over my head - but there's got to be more in life than making big $ and coming home to a nice empty house.

 

I just don't think he's on the same wavelength. I resent him. I think he comes back to me (or has never gone away over the past 8 months) because I'm a good catch (financially), I'm convenient, I'm familiar and with me he can be himself -- a lot less work than having to go out and find someone new. I feel he just wants to use me. Someone faithful to have fun with, so he's not "alone" but at the heart of it, he doesn't really love me or want a life with me.............I'm just someone familiar that he can spend his time with...........having fun.

 

He's never taken an interest in me; my life, my work, my family, my friends.....my day to day stuff. He's very self-centered and everything is about him. He brags about himself a lot. I bet he doesn't even know my middle name. I know everything about him, he knows nothing about me because he's never had the genuine interest to know me........and in all our time "together", not once did he look me in the eye, face to face, and tell me he loved me. most of the times he did tell me he loved me, were in emails - when he was frantically trying to get me back. How screwed up is that?

 

What are your thoughts, based on what I've written? Thanks.

 

PS..he's always loved to throw in my face that I'm "older" than him -- poke fun of me in this regard such that I went from someone who was never bothered about age (to me it's always just been a number) to someone who's now sort of self-conscious about it. Last year on my 40th birthday, we were not together ( because of something horribly rude he'd done to me a week before while on a camping trip together). The evening of my birthday, he proceeded to email me (no apology for what he'd done) and make fun of me for turning 40....even going so far (I was ignoring his emails so I guess he thought he'd step it up a bit to get a reaction from me) as to sending me pictures he'd previously taken of me (while camping together) but with my teeth blacked out .......this is what he did for my 40th birthday.....well after the emails that said "hey, let's go out for a drink for your 40th birthday - maybe I'll even buy your "dumb a$$ a drink." This just shows you how twisted he can be, to hurt me or make fun of me.

[ladyinlimbo]

To add to the above, this is also something that really bothers me.

 

The other night when I agreed to meet and talk..........I told him that i've come to the realization, as difficult as it is, that as I approach turning 41 (next week), I don't see it's realistic that I'm going to have a child some day. When he and I were together, I thought we were going somewhere as a couple and that we'd settle down.....but now, I'm 41 -- and the thought of being 42 or 43 having my first child is just not appealing to me........and the potential risks (having one's first child at that age) to the child (higher risk of down's syndrome, etc)......I think I've missed the opportunity to have a child. I wanted him to know this because when we were together, 8 months ago, I didn't feel this way. I told him he needed to know this because if having children was important to him, I was not the woman for him. For the record, his Dating Profile on the site he's been on for the past 8 months shows he's wanting to have (more) kids.........

 

When I told him all this, he was like "it's no big deal".........I can take having kids or leave it. Then he says to me, (and this was hurtful to me)......."if was I was to meet someone great and they can't or don't want to have kids, if they're a great person and we can have a great relationship, that's all that matters to me."

 

if he was to "meet someone"? This coming from a guy who's asked me to meet him so that we could talk and I be willing to give US another chance is speaking from this viewpoint -- that if he were to "meet someone great"? That shows me that he doesn't really have ME in his heart if he can so freely express this way of thinking. he doesn't talk like a man who really wants to have me back in his life.........................he sounds more like a single guy who's still looking. Don't you think? that really bothers me.

[Last_Nerve]

You need to get rid of him. He's a player and he is playing and using you. If you want a baby either adopt one or get artificially inseminated before its to late. After reading all of that I can see that he does not bring one positive thing to the table.

[ladyinlimbo]

Hello Patty,

 

Sadly, I think he's played and used me all along. That's been a tough one to swallow. I am the kind of person who tries to give someone the benefit of a doubt; I try to be forgiving, I try to look at the big picture, and I think I stuck around with him and gave him so many chances because he slowly brainwashed me into thinking that *I* was the one with all the issues.

 

He has no insight, no accountability, no conscience, no sense of remorse and I don't think he realizes how he's hurt me. But he expects me to just suck it all up and "forget it all" and just go on with him, with our entire focus being "having fun." Life and relationships aren't always about having fun. They take love, commitment, communication, effort, and compromise. And the maturity to acknowledge your partner's concerns and not just invalidate them and say "they don't exist."

 

I asked him the other night - if we were to get back together, what would be different? What would YOU do differently to make this work? His response was pretty much "I'm not going to change to be in a relationship - I am who I am -- but if we just focus on fun and enjoying life, that's the way to go."

 

I feel like I'm the only mature one here. I am not so desperate for a relationship or to have a man in my life that I'm willing to walk back into the fire, just to avoid being alone. I told him "you can't keep doing things the same way yet expecting a different result."

 

It's not like he came to me and said "I've missed you all these months, I'm sorry for the way I acted, I've been doing a lot of thinking, I want to make this work, you are important to me."

 

I don't think he values me as a person or a woman.

 

During our relationship, he made it clear to me that if I wanted him to propose marriage, I needed to "prove" to him that I was good wife material. I needed to show him I could cook and be a good wife. Stupidly, I did. I was constantly doing things to show him I cared, that I valued him, that I respected him, that I was someone he could build a solid future with; that I was loyal and committed and hard working......but he just took and took and took and gave nothing. Mr Complacency.

 

It irks me to think he figures he can just waltz back into my life and expect that I'll just suck it all up and we'll go on having "fun' and weekend camping trips and someone to go for dinner with -- but never anything more substantial.

 

Last summer we spent hours making plans; looking at houses, him calculating what our income would be when I was off on maternity leave, what it would cost to have a baby, the things we'd need to buy for a baby........he really lead me to believe he was serious and wanted to make a life with me. Now here we are, a year later.......and once again he's content to just start all over without any expectations other than to 'have fun.'

 

I am not asking for a man who will hang the moon. I just want someone who wants to build a life and a future together. Not because I 'need' this but because I want it. I already have a good life, a good home, a good future..........but life to me is better when you have your best friend to share it with.

 

he wasted my time (and I do share responsibility for that; someone can't waste your time unless you let them) and lead me on..........and a year ago, we were supposed to be at a place at THIS TIME, where we were married and making a home together, having our first child.........................now he is just content to start all over, make no real commitment to me, basically just 'see where it goes' and have fun. It makes me so fekking angry and resentful. I am a good person and a woman with a lot of love to give and he doesn't deserve it.........and life is so short.

 

He is a user and a taker.

 

My greatest fear is to agree to get back with him and 6 months from now, be in this same boat -- or to live each day wondering when I'm going to get the next email that says "I'm done with you, it's over for good." That's no way to live. He doesn't even care enough about me to reassure me that he won't do that again. Why? Because deep down he doesn't really care about me or my feelings.

 

I cry as I type this because I see what a fool I've been.

[ladyinlimbo]

By the way, the 'having a child' issue isn't such that I so desperately want one that I'd consider alternative means to have one (artificial insemination, etc). If all I wanted was 'just to have a child', I could have easily settled down with someone in the past and had that life -- but what I've been holding out for is someone to make a life and family with -- together. I don't want to be a single Mom. I take having a child very seriously and I'd want a future child of mine to come into this world to 2 parents who love each other and have a secure relationship and partnership to bring that child into. Maybe I'm old-fashioned that way but it's not just about "making a baby."

[TrustInYourself]

Who wants to be a single parent. It's almost inevitable in today's society. If you question your marriage and are unhappy, most people are just trashing it. I don't see that changing anytime soon.

[serial muse]

but what I've been holding out for is someone to make a life and family with -- together.

 

And this is the guy you want to do it with?

 

Really???

 

What you wrote above will also describe your future life with this guy, if you take him back: the roller coaster, the hurt, the angst, the feelings of worthlessness and not being loved or respected. For the rest of your life (or, well, until you finally got fed up).

 

You can't honestly want that for yourself - he belittles you, insults you, makes you feel bad about yourself, won't even read your emails or give your concerns any weight, gives you no sense of security and (I'm sorry to say) clearly doesn't love you. No one who loved you would treat you that way. It's a very harsh thing to say, and I'm not trying to inflict more pain - but what, exactly, have you gotten out of a relationship with him? Is there anything positive? Because here it sounds like he gives you exactly nothing.

 

I know - believe me, I know - how hard it is to walk away from someone you've invested so much in. I suspect that's what's keeping you around this time. You've poured a lot into him and it feels agonizing to think it was all for "nothing."

 

But it's time to cut your losses. You can't make him become a better person, and you can't make him respect you or love you. And if you keep taking him back, he'll keep doing what he's doing, because it's working.

 

Please, let this one go.

[Trialbyfire]

So why do you continue to take him back? He's a complete jerk and each time you take him back, you enable his poor treatment of you. Step down from the roller coaster ride and walk away.

[TrustInYourself]

You sound like you know what to do. Walk away from this guy. He's not good for you. He emotionally abuses you. He walks away from the relationship whenever it suits him. He has you completely under his spell. Anything he wants, you are willing to give. He has no reason to change because you do not care enough for yourself.

 

Walk away. You are better than this. You deserve more. You deserve complete happiness. Best of luck.

[underpants]

I swear.

 

You just can't win (or even reach a middle ground) with this type of personality.

 

I'm sorry to hear that you invested some time and emotion in what appears to be a lost cause.

 

Thank goodness you didn't marry him, or have a child with him. He apparently is not very invested in the one child he does have that lives across the country from him. She is 2, and you two have been seeing each other (on and off) for a year? So this tells me the baby was a year (or less) before he bailed on that situation.

 

He seems like a guy that wants to keep all of his options open. If a woman(s) should choose to try to care about him then he will take what he can get. He will spin logic to suit his agenda.

 

One year, lost and a lesson learned. Get away from this completely so that other options open up for you.

 

Stop crying. You are not a fool. You might be though if you do take him back. Just take the time a distance needed to really see this through your own lens. Not the skewed one that he presents.

 

Make other plans for your birthday that do not include him.

 

He may try to keep you in his life if you allow it. He may spin logic to make you feel guilty for no longer enabling him to treat you poorly. Since it has worked before. All you can do now is see him for who he is and factor this in your decision making process.

 

If you had a girlfriend dating a man who exhibited these behaviors, what would you advise her to do?

[Dark-N-Romantic]

I am a big fan for second and maybe even third chances...However, clearly there is issues within you that you let first and foremost ANY man treat you like that, you are going to let some young, wet behind the ears punk do it to you? You need to sit down with a doctor and find out why you are letting someone treat you like a dog and you just like a little puppy come bouncing back to him for more. You don't need to be in a marital situation until you figure yourself out and get some self-esteem and your backbone back so that NO ONE is treating you like that. What do you think your child(ren) going to learn?

 

Let me tell you, my next door neighbor's daughter, a beautiful young woman is blind in one eye, probably won't accomplish her goals in life, and ever be in a real loving relationship because she let some man do this to her. He beat her, belittle her, took her out of school (the relationship started when she was in grade school), made her defy her mother, etc. And every time she would leave, he would start right back. Now today, her son, a little child is calling her out of name and treating her like dirt. She is still with he same loser who has not changed. And she has a little girl who is probably learning that this is how a man is suppose to treat the woman he loves. Is this what you want for yourself and your child(ren) (sorry I could not read the whole thing, but I got the major gist of things I think).

 

Women, Men, THIS IS NOT HOW LOVE IS SUPPOSE TO BE! IT IS NOT LOVE! A person who does this to you DOES NOT LOVE YOU! I don't know what it will take for people to understand this...If you are in such a relationship, RUN! RUN! RUN! Please for all your life, run! Even if you are afraid they will hurt you and/or your child, you run! It is better to die like an bird shot from the Heavens, than a dog in the street, but hopefully it will not lead to death. Stand up for yourself.

 

God knows my tears and prayers go out to you. Please do the right thing for yourself and your family. You are better off alone struggling with your kids than in the alive and dead in the comfort of an abusive home.

 

 

DNR

[sid3]

I think you should kick him to the curb and remind yourself you can do so kuch better. You sound like a good woman. he sounds like a selfish boy. You gave him one too many chances. Next year you could find your self happy with someone who treats you right, or you could find yourself coming home to yet another email saying he's done. I hope you choose the first option. The very thought of wasting anymore time should be enough!

[Mustang Sally]

I agree that the real issue here is why in the world you would allow someone else to treat you in this manner? Why are you so desperate for a relationship that you tolerate this treatment? I would expect that single life would be easier on one's self-esteem than that kind of exposure.

 

Like DNR said, get therapy about these issues of yours. Once you clear them up, you will see that you don't need him - or anyone else to be a complete person. (Not that I'd wait another second before dismissing him from my presence if I were you...)

[ladyinlimbo]

My response to yours....

 

1. I have gone for counselling. Last summer, in one of his manipulative attempts to win me back, he proposed that we go for couples counselling together - because he "thought I was worth it." I agreed to it because I thought, if anything, maybe an unbiased professional could get through to him; that the way he was treating me was abusive and selfish and manipulative. Ironically, when push came to shove he refused to go -- but I decided to go on my own and I did for about 10 sessions. I did that for me. I did it with the hope of learning "why" I had allowed him to abuse me like he had, when all i did was give and love him. I even brought my laptop into one of the sessions, to let her read his emails -- I wanted her to get a feel for him without my spin on it. She told me that he had the character traits of someone with Narcissistic Personality Disorder and told me to read up on it. I asked her, though, how I could be so manipulated - even at times when I realized I was being manipulated......she said to me "because he's a master manipulator." We touched on other things. I had a rough childhood - a cold, abusive (physical, mental, emotional) Mom and a Dad who was always away working and I tried to hard to please him (because I could surely never please my Mom). I have read many good books on NPD. I have done a lot of soul searching.

 

I guess I feel a little defensive due to your response.......it's similar to those who look down their nose at women who are in abusive relationships and they ask "why would she stay and put up with that?" -- when to me, the question should be "why would a man abuse a woman who loves him i the first place?"

 

2. I have been apart from him for the past 8 months. In the past I'd have allowed myself to get 'sucked back in' in about 2-3 weeks but this time I have worked really hard, out of love for myself, to not go back and I am very proud of myself for having resisted. I think I should get some credit for that because in all these months, not more than 2 weeks has gone by where he hasn't been contacting. Back before Xmas, I went so far as to have his phone number blocked from calling my home and I changed my cell #. I have tried very hard and I have made a lot of progress though it may not seem like it to you.

 

3. I haven't gotten back with him; I guess I didn't make that clear in my post here. I was more or less just venting about how he can take no responsibility for how he's treated me yet think he can just snap his fingers and I'll come back. No accountability, no responsibility. He actually used to accuse me of giving my love but with "conditions" (projection on his part), or about my apparent inability to fully commit to him (total bullsh*t - it was the other way around; projection again). It's as if he truly has no conscience and he is devoid of feelings or a heart.

 

I go back many times, to the beginning of our relationship and I look at all the 'red flags' that were there; the way he mistreated me early on........it was very subtle and I didn't see it for what it was at the time because he would just tell me I was too sensitive and I didn't have enough of a sense of humour and I guess I started to believe it.

 

I will not go back with him because to do so would mean that all the standing up for myself I've done over the past 8 months would have been for nothing. That's not something I could live with. It has been a real struggle but I've seen through his crap and manipulative attempts.

[Gordon's Right]

Sometimes the best advice is the most obvious.

 

My ma always told me to love myself before anyone else.

[underpants]

I will not go back with him because to do so would mean that all the standing up for myself I've done over the past 8 months would have been for nothing. That's not something I could live with. It has been a real struggle but I've seen through his crap and manipulative attempts.

 

 

Hey Lady,

 

I just wanted to say that 8 months no contact is something to be very proud of.

 

It is down right infuriating when an ex has absolutely no accountability let alone acknowledgement, and gosh forbid an apology, about how their words and actions hurt others' yet insist on worming their way into their lives at their whim.

 

You ex sounds a little like someone I used to date. Over 2 years later he still on occasion attempts to insert himself into my life. Actually, he showed up at my door a few days ago. I just didn't answer. However, it has given me some low level anxiety. (in a ...what's next sort of way)

 

I think this type knows that anxiety (coupled with even a slight emotional investment) has the makings of a pliable person, who will bend to their manipulation. That is kind of sick when you think about it.

 

It is a good thing for me that I am a stubborn B.

 

Time away from him will strip you of the emotional investment and you will see him as just a manipulative person. Then you will thank your lucky stars that you dodged this bullet.

 

It is easy to be objective and non emotional and say...'what a jerk, how did you let yourself get caught up in that?'. Trust me, I used to ask myself the same question. I also knew the entire time I dated my ex that something was very wrong.

 

Don't be defensive, but do ask yourself what led you to invest so much in a man that could not give back in the slightest. That might benefit you in a future relationship. Or help you avoid another disaster.

 

The first step you have taken. You no longer have contact with him. Don't respond to his contact if you can avoid him. My ex's contact got so bad that I actually had to employ the 'rage back with the truth' method a few times to make seeing me a negative experience. That reduced the frequency.

 

The next step, although, a difficult one. Is to transition away from trying to understand why he is the way he is and holding onto hope that he will realize what he had and how he mistreated it. That is futile. I have no doubt you did your best in that relationship. I just think he was not up to the task. In essence, he is just not the one for you. Knowing what to let go of, completely, sets you free for someone more deserving of those affections and thoughts.

 

What you can do is to focus on your strengths and weaknesses and address those to make you a better and stronger person for the next opportunity.

 

I wish you well.

[ladyinlimbo]

Hi Underpants,

 

Well I haven't had total NC with him these past 8 months; Lord knows I've tried to but I've failed. I met him for coffee twice in all that time. We communicated by email - errr, he would send me stupid one-line emails and I would take the bait and respond. Some days I'd go for a week or more without responding, sometimes I'd not even read his emails but my curiousity eventually got the best of me. I think to him, it was a game. That even an angry email response from me was still "a response" and the attention he was needing. It has been a real effort not to respond. The 2 times I stupidly agreed to meet him for coffee, it was good for me because I saw him in a different light. Smug, arrogant, c*cky, no insight, just thinking because I agreed to meet him that I was wanting to get back with him. If anything, meeting with him and listening to his continued "it's all about me" attitude, it turned me off even more and further supported my decision not to ever get back with him.

 

A month ago he emailed me one Sunday afternoon. He wrote something like "I just spent 5 hours driving home from a wedding and I have an important question to ask you. You know I love you and I know you love me. Come over tonight and talk, we need to do some serious talking." Total manipulation on his part. I could see right through it. He was pretending that he'd been soooooooooooo moved by his friend's wedding that he was maybe feeling moved to propose to me. He didn't "write" all that but that's how he operates -- he knows how much I wanted to settle down and get married and he would make all kinds of manipulative references to that just so try and suck me back in.

 

He did that, but to a larger degree last summer. I had ended things with him and for 3 weeks i would not communicate with him. I was trying so hard to be strong. Out of the blue he comes to my door. He takes my face in his hands and he tells me that he has to ask me something very important, something that will "change our lives" and "make ME very happy"....and could I just come with him............I was emotionally weak then, and I did go with him. Where did he take me? A driving range. When we were done there, he's in his truck with me and he's holding my hand and telling me how much he wants me in his life and he doesn't want to lose me and he "seems" genuine.........(this isn't a guy who ever talks about his feelings, ever). He drives me back home, tells me he's going to take me out for dinner. Before I get out of his truck, again he nervously tells me he's got to ask me a very important question later.........and again, how happy it will make me, bla bla bla. He's got tears in his eyes. I'm naturally thinking he's going to propose. I go inside, get ready.......I'm a bundle of nerves...........I loved him but our relationship was so chaotic, how could I say "yes" if he proposed? Would that be a mistake? But the other part of me thought "well maybe he's learned what i mean to him and he's ready to step up to the plate." I was a mix of anxiety, nervous energy, excitement.

 

At 7pm, he comes to my house to pick me up. He doesn't even come up to the door. He sits out in his truck on the street and honks his horn. I'm a little taken back. Anyway I go out to his truck. He takes me to a so-so restaurant.........we sit there at the table and I'm so nervous..........he blabbers on nervously.........then he grabs my hand and says "I have to ask you something"...........and I nearly pass out (LOL).........."would you be willing to go for couples counselling?"

 

The b*stard. All day he manipulatively lead me to believe he was going to propose......that was his "way" of sucking me back in to even agreeing to having gone out with him that day. All day he had to work up to THAT question? What's so difficult about asking that?

 

He was just playing me all day...........trying to build up the excitement and anticipation -- wording his words in such a way that I'd think he was going to finally stop talking the talk and he'd now be walking the walk..............a total player and master of manipulation -- and stupidly I bought it.

 

I don't know how someone like that can live with themself but wait, they can because they are the epitome of selfish and they have no conscience. Every word and action (or lack thereof) is cleverly motivated by what they stand to gain. Nothing is genuine, nothing comes from the heart.

 

The hardest thing for me to come to terms with is the fact that he never really loved me. I used to go each day with anxiety and butterflies inside, feeling insecure about whether he loved me -- often feeling he was just with me until someone "better" came along (of course that was only further reinforced when I'd catch him with a profile on a dating site). Never before had I been in a long term relationship and questioned my guy's love for me, never.

 

It was very one-sided, unhealthy and chaotic. I am glad to be out of it. It was not good for my mental or physical health.

 

I'm just appalled by his audacity to think he can just worm his way back into my life and that I should just "suck up" all the crap from him of the past and just forget it and "focus on fun." What a big selfish kid.

 

I must make a vow to myself, and stick to it, that i will not respond to him again. Ever. I will not engage him when he sends me sucky emails trying to get me back. I must totally go NC. Somehow I have to do it, I have to find a way. It's always been difficult for me because there's always been a part of me that thought I could "get through" to him and make him see things from my perspective but someone like this can't and he's proven it time and time again. I am wasting life and time even trying. It's like talking to a brick wall. He has such an over-inflated opinion of himself, he feels he is perfect. I must ignore him.

[porter218]

Limbo, I really am feeling like you are treating this "relationship" like one of those women you see in the casino on the slot machines for hours and hours. You keep telling yourself one more bet and I might win the jackpot, you feel like you have been placing bets on this slot machine for so long that it is due to win soon. Sorry hun, you have wasted enough time gambling on this man, stop betting on a broken machine. Your chances are better if you just get up and put your money in the next one.

 

really though, you couldn't possibly want to spend the rest of your life like this. And also, I am willing to bet that you were not the only woman in his life during the times that you were with him.

[underpants]

Lady,

 

Some of that sounds familiar.

 

The emails, the coffee offers. Heck, my ex would come over to my house when I wasn't home and do...things. Favors and stuff.

 

Then, of course I had to respond to tell him that behavior was inappropriate. Of course this was a response and attention, so even if it was negative, it was a reward in his mind. Or he would not admit to some of it to make me seem unstable. Maybe he simply just cannot acknowlege it? Selective memory, rewriting history with enough egotistical denial to continue doing the same things.

 

Crazy times. I even purchased some men's shoes and put them outside my door so he would think I had a boyfriend. Friends would park their cars in my driveway. This sounds nuts, but a rational discussion was just not something to be had. Believe me, I tried and was debated and debated. I finally got tired of even trying to come to an understanding and wrote and told him exactly what I thought, they were not nice thoughts, but honest ones, with a solid statement that I wished him to leave me alone. Then ignored him completely. He still emailed and visited. I just ignored and ignored. He eventually gave up the direct contact for a long time.

 

After that he employed unsuspecting 3rd party friends to set up what I guess would have been 'chance' meetings. However, I never took any of that bait. Then (and now on occasion) there is horn blowing outside of my home, and the random visit, or weak now, 3rd party attempts. It is just really sad. All that manipulation when a direct and honest conversation could have been had. However, that must be more terrifying then all that other underhanded work?

 

Several months ago, I did have a chance to speak with him and it was just more of the same. He has a completely warped view of what happened and why. He is a slave to his patterns and it is so apparent. I just let him talk and thought to myself. Thank God, I got away.

 

My slight fear now is that he, with help from some others are attempting to inject negativity into my current (much better, much healthier) relationship. This worries me a little, and I'm not quite sure how to deal with that.

 

The games that they play. It is so ugly.

 

Total no contact is next to impossible because if the emails are not responded to, then it can escalate to a visit. If you respond then it still escalates. It feels like a no win.

 

That is, until you find that anger and use it productively. To ignore him at all costs or if you have to respond to do so from a position of strength and resolve.

 

I would never wish that kind of personality on someone else, and I'm sorry that you stumbled onto one. Just get out and stay out. Don't respond and get away. He can do nothing but hurt you. Jeez, even if he did marry you, it would only give him power to hurt you on a regular basis.

 

Cut him out and cortorize the wound.

 

He may give up after a while and leave you alone. He is probably keeping you on a line while fishing on the profiles for other supplies. Like you said, not a genuine bone in his body.

 

It sucks, but at least you know what type of person he is. It may not be what you had hoped, but you know. You can step away and work on a future without him and the games. In time you will find yourself in a better and stronger place. He will probably still be the same person.

 

Work on you, and ignore the ex. I wish you strength. (and a large cast iron frying pan).

[Trialbyfire]

Yup, I do agree the stalking and manipulation techniques are familiar. No matter how you try to shut them down with full out rejection, mean person techniques, they keep coming back for more. Ignoring gives them no feed-back, which stops feeding their ego. Once you no longer feed their ego, they wander off to suck someone else dry.

[underpants]

Yup, I do agree the stalking and manipulation techniques are familiar. No matter how you try to shut them down with full out rejection, mean person techniques, they keep coming back for more. Ignoring gives them no feed-back, which stops feeding their ego. Once you no longer feed their ego, they wander off to suck someone else dry.

 

I agree from my experience.

 

Ignoring is the most productive method for dealing with this. It actually, hurts them the most and benefits your recovery the most. So that is a win win in my book.

 

However, I would caution that contact and games, can escalate upon prolonged ignoring, before it pans out. Like a wave.

 

Lady, just be prepared for a wave of b/s to come your way before the tide goes out.

 

Hopefully, you will be safe on shore and watching it with slight amusement.

 

Welcome to LS.

[ladyinlimbo]

Hi Porter,

 

I have spent a lot of time trying to understand why I remained with him. Yes, I did leave him many times, but up until this past November, I always went back.

 

The logical side of me knew he was 'toxic' and sucking the life out of me.....but the emotional side of me always gave in.

 

The first few months of our relationship were very difficult because he had a lot of baggage from his previous relationship (of course I had no idea the degree of it when I first met him - he totally minimized it) and he was going through a lot of stress and chaos of his own. He'd promise me that once things were sorted out, it would be good. I guess I would cling onto this hope and I believed him. I often felt guilty for wanting to leave because I felt that would make me a quitter or someone who was abandoning someone when they needed to have someone who would stick by them. I think he played on this belief of mine. But over time I learned that these were just excuses on his part - because when his stuff got sorted out, he was still a selfish pr*ck who just took, took and took some more.

 

When things were good between us, they were very good - and we were a real 'team' and it was those times that kept me around, or coming back. he made a lot of seemingly genuine promises - but looking back objectively, I can see those promises were nothing more than carefully crafted words of BS used to keep me from leaving/staying gone.

 

he often poked fun at me because I was older than him.........and I think over time he made me feel that if I kept leaving, I'd end up old and alone. Err, my desire to settle down, marry and have a child would be over. He liked to hold the 'age thing' over my head. I think subconsciously I had become brainwashed to a degree -- to think that maybe things weren't so bad and that i shouldn't be looking for perfection, at "my age." He used to tell me all the time that he could accept me just as I was so why couldn't I just accept him the way he was? His brainwashing was subtle. I guess I felt pressured to just 'stick it out' because if I left him for good, then that meant that I'd endured all the crap for "nothing". I'm not saying this way of thinking makes sense or is logical - it's not, but it is what it was.

 

Then there was the logical side of me that saw a marriage to him as a sure life of hell; that if we had a child, it would be even more hell.......because I'd be forever connected to him and he'd likely raise our child to be rude to me -- and that he'd never be supportive during the pregnancy, he'd just call me fat, he'd have me at his mercy because I'd be so afraid he'd leave me. And being the vindictive person that he is, if I were ever in a position where I had to divorce him, it would be a nightmare. Believe me, I thought and thought so much about everything. There was a time we'd been apart for 2 months and he begged me to come back.............and he started talking marriage and all that and I was freaked out -- because I didn't trust him and it made me angry that he could go from treating me like crap to suddenly thinking I would marry him. That's not even healthy. You don't marry someone you can't even get along with. Marriage isn't going to "fix" the problems that exist.

 

I think I just always thought that "one day" I would get through to him........and he would understand where I was coming from............that he would care enough to try and understand where I was coming from...........and maybe it became my 'mission' to do that. But you can't get through to someone who is delusional and believes they are superior to you.

 

I don't think he was with other women while with me - I'm not sure when he'd have the time. Every night and every weekend he expected me to spend it with him. That doesn't mean he wasn't "looking" because I believe he was............(online dating sites).

 

I turn 41 on Sunday and I must let this be a new year, a new beginning - where I don't fall for his tricks and I don't respond to his emails, I completely ignore him, total NO CONTACT. The ball is in my court. I must ignore him because all he's really doing is playing games. He doesn't care about me, he hasn't learned anything in all these past 8 months. He's just lazy and it's easier to come back to me than to pursue something with someone else. He is lazy and cheap when it comes to dating. I am familiar to him, we have a lot of common interests and he sees me as an easy target; someone who he can just be himself with...........whereas with someone new, he would have to put on an act, spend money on them (dates, dinners, putting on the show), etc. He is so transparent.

[Trialbyfire]

I agree from my experience.

 

Ignoring is the most productive method for dealing with this. It actually, hurts them the most and benefits your recovery the most. So that is a win win in my book.

 

However, I would caution that contact and games, can escalate upon prolonged ignoring, before it pans out. Like a wave.

 

Lady, just be prepared for a wave of b/s to come your way before the tide goes out.

 

Hopefully, you will be safe on shore and watching it with slight amusement.

 

Welcome to LS.

Btw, guess who's finally free from her stalker/manipulator after 14+ months after divorce? Yes, he finally quit emailing me for the past six days which coincided with the fact that he FINALLY started dating again. It took over 3+ months of consistent ignoring.

[ladyinlimbo]

There was a point last Fall where I was doing very well at completely ignoring his calls and emails (we'd been broken up for a month then, not our final break-up though). The more I ignored him, the more it seemed to infuriate him. How "dare" I ignore the "King." So what did he do? He falsely accused me of having stolen his digital camera -- even leading me to believe he'd called the police about it. It was all BS but it scared the crap out of me. I am a professional person, I have never broken the law or stolen in my life. If i were to be charged with a criminal act, that could directly impact my ability to renew my professional license/registration. At that point, i had to seek the advice of my Dad. I wasn't thinking rationally - my fear was, "how can I prove I didnt steal it?".....My Dad has been chomping at the bit for months to call him up and tell him to be a man and leave me alone. I finally gave dad his number. It was embarassing, a 40 yr old woman having her 65 yr old Dad call up her vindictive Ex .....but this was getting out of hand. Dad did talk to him, told him to grow up and leave me alone, that we obviously weren't a good match. Dad then told me to call the police and explain that I was being accused of having stolen his camera. The police officer I spoke with laughed.......he checked and no complaint had been filed, he (ex) was just trying to get my goat. well it had worked.

 

I thought that would be the end of things. Nope, that night the ex started sending me a barrage of emails.........first they were cute, then when I ignored him they turned ugly -- things like "wow, what a big girl you are, having your daddy call me".

 

It got to the point where I'd considered selling my home and moving to a neighboring city because I felt that the longer I lived "only 5 minutes away", the more he would "not go away." But after much discussion with friends and family, I came to the realization that it wouldn't matter where I lived, he'd still play games and try to taunt and manipulate me. So I didn't proceed with that plan.

 

For the longest time I worried that he'd falsely accuse me of something else. Afterall, I knew the code to his garage door - was sure he'd never have changed it (it was his year of birth).........and feared that if he ever wanted to get back at me for resisting his attempts to get me back, all he'd have to do is say 'something' was done to his property, or something amiss in his home, and he'd wrongly accuse me. The incident with the camera really scared me -- that he could be so dirty and spiteful, just to "pay me back."

 

last August when he dumped me out of the blue by email, 4 days before we were to go away on our long-time planned camping trip down south (after he'd used me the entire day before, to clean out his trailer, do all his laundry, pack up the trailer, make lists, get us organized to go), he refused to give me all my stuff back. his trailer and home were full of my stuff in preparation for our trip; all my climbing/hiking gear, all my summer clothes, pots/pans, coolers, chairs, you name it it was either in his trailer or in his garage or home. for the first time ever, he had locked his trailer and disabled his garage keypad so that after i received the email that said "I'm done, I don't want to be with you anymore" -- I couldn't get my stuff back. I had to get the police involved. why did he do this? to hurt me. to further devastate me. to keep me at his mercy. AND because he fully intended to 'get back with me' when he returned from this same camping trip (only he took his Mommy and brother) so I guess he didn't think I needed my stuff. And like clockwork, the day he returned from the trip, he phoned and emailed constantly, begging me to go for dinner with him..........as if nothing had happened. NO apology, no nothing.

 

He's generally not one to just show up on my doorstep because he's far too lazy to expend the energy it would take to get in his truck and drive 5 minutes to my house, only to be rejected. So I don't think I have to worry about that too much. He knows that if he starts leaving me stupid drunk voicemail messages, I'll block him or change my phone # again if I have to. His M.O. is email. My assignment is to not even read his email. he knows I'm on vacation now until Jul 16 so I know I haven't heard the last of him.

 

I did email him last night to tell him that I am not interested and that he needs to move on. That I didn't fall for his "BS" the other night. he's still the same selfish punk. I don't trust him and I never will, and I am done. I'm sure that let the wind out of his sails because he had great hopes for us to be going camping this weekend, just like 'old times'. wrong.

[underpants]

Lady,

 

I hope you do stick to ignoring him. He sounds like very bad news.

 

If you fuel it by responding then well, you can expect him to play along.

 

The more you describe this relationship it sounds extremely toxic. He might be a selfish jerk, but you did play into and along with some of it.

 

As far as theft of his home or property. Just don't do anything. His statements or accusations will be empty.

 

I hope this is the final break up. Don't respond to further emails or contact from him. You don't need to explain anything to him. He will get it eventually. Playing with this sort can actually be dangerous. With your Dad and the police involved once. Then you took him back again. Oh my. Please stick to your guns and avoid this toxic match.

 

When they realize they have lost control then that is when you see true coping mechnisms. Be smart and be careful, and don't feed it.

 

I think that he will do something near your birthday. I think you suspect this as well. If he leaves a gift or contacts you ....still ignore it. If he emails you to ask if you got the gift...still ignore it.

 

Have friends stay with you and keep you company, or go and stay with them in dire times.

 

In my case I made a point of going out of town at every opportunity for months. It helped to be physically away from the situation.

 

Don't delete his emails. However, keep them (unresponded to) in a separate folder for evidence, should you need it. Not that you will need to do anything. However, a record of such could benefit you later if need be.

 

Vent away, but stick to your guns.

 

The longest you have ignored him is one month? Give it longer then that. Okay?