Author PandorasBox Posted July 2, 2008 Author Posted July 2, 2008 You're welcome but I'm telling it like I see it. It can't be easy for her! I'm sure it wont be easy for her. It probably will be a tough road ahead, and I'm glad she has support of friends and family to help her.
Taramere Posted July 2, 2008 Posted July 2, 2008 You already know my opinions on this Now I'm curious! Well, I don't see my friend as a martyr. She got out of something she thought she once wanted. She shared her story with me and her family about the things that went on while she was caught up in that lifestyle. The porn industry's all about free speech. That should also apply to your friend. The fact that it was her choice to go into the industry doesn't bar her from sharing stories about its less glamorous, palatable side....and I agree with you. The fact that she chooses to tell those stories doesn't make her a martyr. I'm sure it's easier for some highly paid porn star to sit on a tv show drawling on about their feelings of fabulousness than it is for your friend to admit "I made a mistake, and the consequences weren't pretty. Here's what happened."
Author PandorasBox Posted July 2, 2008 Author Posted July 2, 2008 "The fact that she chooses to tell those stories doesn't make her a martyr." Exactly but yet some have come here on my thread and feel she is. Its amazing to me how, someone can get out of something they feel is no longer good for them, try to better themselves and try to choose a better path but yet are made out to be martyrs because of it. Some people didn't have to choose to come to this thread to comment but guess they just couldn't help themselves.
Author PandorasBox Posted July 3, 2008 Author Posted July 3, 2008 I don't see why some posters are so harsh with comments such as "no one put a gun to her head" etc. If she were a drug addict and was trying to recover, she would be getting empathy. So she made a mistake and took a wrong path for herself, now she wants to redo her life. I think that is the point of the thread, not to bash her for getting into the business in the first place. Thank you.
JackJack Posted July 3, 2008 Posted July 3, 2008 PB, not once did I see in your post where I took it as your friend being a "martyr" for getting out of that kind of business. I simply read it to mean she got out of something she no longer carried for, and was home telling her story of the people she met while in that business and what went on with her while she was in that lifestyle. As far as some of the comments made. Consider the source of some of them and where they came from, and that alot of those same posters who make those kinds of comments are pretty much all in support of the same kinds of things. None of which are anything to be real proud of.
Jersey Shortie Posted July 3, 2008 Posted July 3, 2008 You'd be surprised. Women's sexual fantasies aren't always PC you know. It's not for you though, clearly. So you are saying a woman that fantasizes about alot of partners is the same as a woman that actually has alot of partners and gets paid for it in porn? Gawd I have no patience with 'martyrs' like her... sorry but I think that no one forces her to start in that business No one said she was forced. And it's clear she isn't a martyr. She was strong enough to get out of it and there are probably alot of young girls that could learn from it if they are thinking about going into the business. I don't believe that MOST are dying inside.. I've seen interviews of porn stars.. and they ARE very happy with their lives.. they are millionnaires now.. and they did it because they enjoyed the money and the stardom... sorry but that's more the reality of porn 'stars' Well of course, if you saw them happy in an interview then that must mean they really are happy. People are not always who they present themselves to be. Shove a camera in their face and of course they are going to be smiles and happiness. They are paid to make people feel good, not bring them down with the reality of their life. And having money, does not make a person happy. I don't see why some posters are so harsh with comments such as "no one put a gun to her head" etc. If she were a drug addict and was trying to recover, she would be getting empathy. That's because a woman in porn is worthless (by alot of people's view point) and the people that enjoy porn and support it are "better". (Please note the sarcarsm).
blind_otter Posted July 3, 2008 Posted July 3, 2008 If thats the case all the people here on LS, who have been involved in drugs and alcohol, been raped before etc etc and been in bad situations that came here to tell their story and share with others of their choices and struggles should be martyrs to then. So make sure all are addressed as martyrs. Not fair for some and not others. I disagree. No one CHOOSES to be raped!!! That's the whole point of rape - you say no, they keep f*cking you while they hold you down and pin your knees and elbows to the ground so you can't hit them. I just get pissed off when people say stuff like that about rape. Give me a break. Unless you're one of those morons who thinks that women "ask for it".
Author PandorasBox Posted July 3, 2008 Author Posted July 3, 2008 I disagree. No one CHOOSES to be raped!!! That's the whole point of rape - you say no, they keep f*cking you while they hold you down and pin your knees and elbows to the ground so you can't hit them. I just get pissed off when people say stuff like that about rape. Give me a break. Unless you're one of those morons who thinks that women "ask for it". You didn't get what I was meaning. I'm saying there have been people on LS who have told their situations on rape, drugs, alcohol, abuse etc, and just becasue they tell others of those kinds of things that has happened to them, doesn't mean they are martyrs. There were certain posters on here who acted like my friend was a martyr becasue of what she had been through. I was trying to make a point with other people who had been through situations that weren't good, and that they weren't martyrs either but some people probably thought so. Maybe I typed it all wrong. BUt I knew what it was I was trying to say and the point I was trying to get across. I never said someone chose to be raped. BOttom line on what I meant. I haven't seen on here (and maybe I missed it), but I haven't seen where someone on here told of their troubles and struggles with certain issues, and got out of something, and got help, be called a martyr for doing so. BUt yet I tell of what my friend told me she went through and I was told she was acting like a martyr. Thats what I was meaning.
Jersey Shortie Posted July 3, 2008 Posted July 3, 2008 Blind Otter, perhaps not yourself, but most people make choices in their youth..or even in their older years that they later regret and learn from. That's life. Are we to condemn everyone that ever made a poor choice with little regards or symphathy for their situation? We all make mistakes. It's what we do after the mistake that matters. And Paradox has a point. If someone came here saying how they use to drink and now are recovering, they would be geting words of encouragment. A woman's story is shared about how she gets out of the porn business, and she is still condemned. It's interesting.
Author PandorasBox Posted July 3, 2008 Author Posted July 3, 2008 BO, I have read some of your stories you have shared here. I think they are brave, and inspiring, and took alot of courage for you to probably share about your struggles. After you shared those with others, about how you got out of certain situations, and stoped doing this or that, were you called a martyr for doing so? Maybe you were, I don't know, like I said maybe I missed that.
blind_otter Posted July 3, 2008 Posted July 3, 2008 You didn't get what I was meaning. I'm saying there have been people on LS who have told their situations on rape, drugs, alcohol, abuse etc, and just becasue they tell others of those kinds of things that has happened to them, doesn't mean they are martyrs. There were certain posters on here who acted like my friend was a martyr becasue of what she had been through. I was trying to make a point with other people who had been through situations that weren't good, and that they weren't martyrs either but some people probably thought so. Maybe I typed it all wrong. BUt I knew what it was I was trying to say and the point I was trying to get across. I never said someone chose to be raped. BOttom line on what I meant. I haven't seen on here (and maybe I missed it), but I haven't seen where someone on here told of their troubles and struggles with certain issues, and got out of something, and got help, be called a martyr for doing so. BUt yet I tell of what my friend told me she went through and I was told she was acting like a martyr. Thats what I was meaning. YOU don't get what I'm saying. You asked what made your friend a martyr. This is the comment you received: Originally Posted by The Collector People who whine and claim victimhood about choices they made as an adult without a gun to their head? I'm saying, your comparison to rape is incorrect, because this is not a choice made as an adult without a gun to their head - in fact, very often, there IS a gun to a rape victim's head.
blind_otter Posted July 3, 2008 Posted July 3, 2008 BO, I have read some of your stories you have shared here. I think they are brave, and inspiring, and took alot of courage for you to probably share about your struggles. After you shared those with others, about how you got out of certain situations, and stoped doing this or that, were you called a martyr for doing so? Maybe you were, I don't know, like I said maybe I missed that. TBH I have been called a martyr - maybe not on here, but IRL. It doesn't bother me. My experience is what it is. If I appear to be like a martyr to some, then that's fine. What random people think about my situation has no effect on me because they do not share my experience. And as always, I believe everyone is entitled to their opinion, as long as they aren't hurting someone else. And I know that many women who dealt with sexual violence as I have turned to pornography or prostitution, IMO likely because that made them feel like they were taking control of their own victimization on some level. In fact, I was quite promiscuous directly after the second time I was raped. I felt worthless, so I acted in that manner. I got over it. You have to realize - when you make a public post on a message board you will get a grab bag of various opinions. Some you will like, others you will hate - but that's a consequence of posting your friend's private story on a public message board. BTW - did you get her permission to share her experience on LS? Because if it were me, and a friend did that, I would be kind of pissed.
Author PandorasBox Posted July 3, 2008 Author Posted July 3, 2008 YOU don't get what I'm saying. You asked what made your friend a martyr. This is the comment you received: I'm saying, your comparison to rape is incorrect, because this is not a choice made as an adult without a gun to their head - in fact, very often, there IS a gun to a rape victim's head. I was meaning people who have shared stories of things like rape, alcohol or drugs. BUt I wasn't trying to compare rape. That wasn't my intention nor what I was trying to say. BTW I wasn't the one who said something about holding a gun to someones head. Someone else made that comment, I was trying to quote what they were saying. I never made the orginal comment.
Jersey Shortie Posted July 3, 2008 Posted July 3, 2008 BTW - did you get her permission to share her experience on LS? Because if it were me, and a friend did that, I would be kind of pissed. It's not like she shared her name. And it's not like any of us know the other from a stranger on the street.
blind_otter Posted July 3, 2008 Posted July 3, 2008 It's not like she shared her name. And it's not like any of us know the other from a stranger on the street. I'm just saying, I would be upset. JMO.
Author PandorasBox Posted July 3, 2008 Author Posted July 3, 2008 TBH I have been called a martyr - maybe not on here, but IRL. It doesn't bother me. My experience is what it is. If I appear to be like a martyr to some, then that's fine. What random people think about my situation has no effect on me because they do not share my experience. And as always, I believe everyone is entitled to their opinion, as long as they aren't hurting someone else. And I know that many women who dealt with sexual violence as I have turned to pornography or prostitution, IMO likely because that made them feel like they were taking control of their own victimization on some level. In fact, I was quite promiscuous directly after the second time I was raped. I felt worthless, so I acted in that manner. I got over it. You have to realize - when you make a public post on a message board you will get a grab bag of various opinions. Some you will like, others you will hate - but that's a consequence of posting your friend's private story on a public message board. BTW - did you get her permission to share her experience on LS? Because if it were me, and a friend did that, I would be kind of pissed. Yes, I did get her permission. She has been on here before too. Not as a regular but as a guest. She read the post just yesterday. I understand people get different opinons on here when someone makes a post. I also understand people will like some opinons and some they will not. I didn't like some and made it known. It happens, its nothing new. I have seen others not be too thrilled as well. Will I lose sleep over it? Nope. All I did was make it known I didn't appreciate certain "opinons". There is nothing wrong with that. Its been done to me before too. Its probably been done to most people here at some point. I really don't know what else to say. I shared my friends story. I am happy for her, glad she decided to what she felt was best. Sorry if I told something the wrong way or typed something wrong, even though I knew what I was trying to say/mean and it came out wrong. Wasn't my intension. So with that being said, if others want to continue to discuss it, they are welcome too. I don't know what else to say.
JackJack Posted July 3, 2008 Posted July 3, 2008 blind, how many people have come here and shared something about someone they know, a friend, or a family memeber or a co-worker, and it wasn't asked if they got permission from that person? Also, when celebs have been discussed, I don't think they got their persmission to be discussed on a forum either. Just saying. I love ya to pieces, but I really feel right now, your hormones are in overdrive. You're saying some things right now that to me doesn't seem like you.
tanbark813 Posted July 3, 2008 Posted July 3, 2008 People are such predators. In knowing that there are people being traumatized, they're still going to support the industry. Big titties transcend human suffering.
blind_otter Posted July 3, 2008 Posted July 3, 2008 blind, how many people have come here and shared something about someone they know, a friend, or a family memeber or a co-worker, and it wasn't asked if they got permission from that person? Also, when celebs have been discussed, I don't think they got their persmission to be discussed on a forum either. Just saying. Maybe people should ask - since it has happened multiple times that people have been outted on LS, to friends and family members - and the consquences of such can be pretty sucky. Take coco milkshake, for instance. Just because people haven't done it in the past, doesn't mean they should start doing it now. IN any event, the OP said she DID ask her friend if it was OK to post her story, so it's all good. She covered her bases and did the right thing. Celebs live their lives in the limelight - gossip columns talk about them all the time, it's par for the course with them, a hazard of the type of work they do. So I don't think that example is applicable.
JackJack Posted July 3, 2008 Posted July 3, 2008 "Take coco milkshake, for instance." Did you get her permission to say her name on here? I'm just messin with ya. I understand, and its going to be ok.
The Collector Posted July 3, 2008 Posted July 3, 2008 The original post, as recounted by the original poster, was full of victimhood. How the poor little poppet, and others like her, are trapped, coerced and intimidated into a career they don't enjoy and later regret. It was nothing if not a cautionary tale, and purported as evidence that the porn industry is, well, evil. I'm not crusading about the wonders of the porn industry as a great career for young women, but at some point it needs to be pointed out that it was a choice made, where leaving was always an option, and I'd add that many women do stuff in their youth that they feel ashamed about later and alter their story to make themselves look victimised. I'd be just as likely to say the same thing about a drug addict who blamed everyone else. The 'no one had a gun to your head' argument remains valid.
blair08 Posted July 3, 2008 Posted July 3, 2008 I would think whenever anyone posts about anything, it can be preceived one way by some, and preceived another way by others. Some will see it as her being a victim some will not. What matters now is, she got out of it, and she has made a move to try to move forward with her life. At this point though, I don't see where going around in circles about it anymore is productive. Just my 2 cents.
mental_traveller Posted July 4, 2008 Posted July 4, 2008 And how many women do you actually think sincerely enjoy being banged by x amount of different men, for a male audience where her pleasure really isn't even a consideration? My sample size isn't large enough to draw a statistically significant conclusion, but I do know a few women who enjoy exactly that. What makes you think that you know the sexual interests of every person on planet earth?
mental_traveller Posted July 4, 2008 Posted July 4, 2008 People are such predators. In knowing that there are people being traumatized, they're still going to support the industry. I guess it's the same thing as disagreeing with the cut-throat business practices of Walmart but still shopping there since it saves them money, regardless of how many third-world countries are being victimized. "If there's something in it for me, I'm not going to worry about anyone else". I support people who enjoy performing sex for an audience and freely choose to do so. I don't support people who patronize them by saying they are getting traumatized. You have no right to judge people who are exercising informed consent, just because a parade of morons and losers cannot do the same and thus end up being exploited by the seamier side of the industry. You also have no right to label people as "predators" for enjoying the former.
mental_traveller Posted July 4, 2008 Posted July 4, 2008 Blind Otter, perhaps not yourself, but most people make choices in their youth..or even in their older years that they later regret and learn from. That's life. Are we to condemn everyone that ever made a poor choice with little regards or symphathy for their situation? We all make mistakes. It's what we do after the mistake that matters. But why does the porn industry get singled out for being an avenue for these supposed "bad choices"? Why not the lumberjack or offshore fishing industries, where considerably more people die than in porn? It seems like it's ok to take a much higher risk of death if you're a young guy going into those fields, but god forbid a woman take the risk of having a few regrets later in life by spending some of her twenties getting *paid* to have sex (something many men would love to get paid to do). It seems like most criticism of the "exploitative" nature of the porn industry is nothing to do with exploitation (otherwise other industries would get the most criticism) and everything to do with judgmental moralizing and sexual prudery.
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