Trialbyfire Posted July 3, 2008 Share Posted July 3, 2008 I know it's something familiar, which I'm working on in therapy: I choose unavailable, narcissistic men as a way to replay childhood scripts with my parents (dad = unavailable; mom = narcissist). I'm fixing this 'family of origin' crap so I don't do it again. But does that automatically mean it's not real love? It acts like love, walks like love, quacks like love. Is it just a good imposter? Healthy love is something that requires the participation of both people. A healthy relationship requires solid foundations like love, trust and respect. Realistically speaking sunshinegirl, I'm not seeing any of this type of foundation, more of a situation of codependency. Link to post Share on other sites
Author sunshinegirl Posted July 3, 2008 Author Share Posted July 3, 2008 Yikes - I reacted to the word 'codependency'! Nobody's used that particular term to describe me before, including my counselor who has seen me through three different breakups. How do you define codependency? I mean, I can see I put much more emotional energy and investment in to the relationship than I got out of it, and the tangly roots of why I chose to even be in the relationship go back to FOO. Do you see something more than that? Link to post Share on other sites
Trialbyfire Posted July 3, 2008 Share Posted July 3, 2008 Sorry, took me a couple of minutes to find a good source to describe co-dependencies. http://www.nmha.org/go/codependency Link to post Share on other sites
Author sunshinegirl Posted July 3, 2008 Author Share Posted July 3, 2008 Thanks for the link; I will ponder this a bit more. I took the 20 question quiz thingie twice and answered very few of them in the co-dependent direction... I looked up a few other sites too and it doesn't slide nicely into place as the explanation. But maybe I'm getting tripped up on semantics. What I know for sure is that I set up a familiar pattern by dating E, most likely in a subconscious attempt to fix the original FOO problem. How that translates to whether I really love E, I can't yet say. It sure feels like love. Commingled with a lot of lust - we had mad chemistry. My guess is that you are of the view that what I feel for him isn't love at all... Link to post Share on other sites
Trialbyfire Posted July 3, 2008 Share Posted July 3, 2008 Only you can answer that one. In reviewing what you said about being unable to love someone you don't respect, particularly someone you considered a ten-year old, do you feel it's love? Link to post Share on other sites
Zapbasket Posted July 3, 2008 Share Posted July 3, 2008 It's good that you're analyzing your patterns... but don't forget to look forward. I know that I got lost forever in the past, and that didn't help me. Once I realized what my patterns were I should've moved on a bit faster. If only enough people actually DID bother to examine the past, we'd all be living in a much healthier present. There's way too much obsession--if we're going to use the word "obsession" in the context of healing process--with quick fixes in this culture. It comes as a surprise to many that one can actually scrutinize the past while still being grounded in the present, that one can examine one's wishes and fantasies regarding another person and still be healthfully oriented towards themselves and what actions they can take towards being content within themselves. When I was in the throes of mourning and analyzing the breakup of my 5-years-long relationship on here, I got some wonderful support as well as quite a bit of flack for "over-analyzing." You know what? Now that I'm past the thick of the mourning process, I feel I have the perspective to say that boy am I glad I really took the time to meditate, analyze, mourn, long and weep for my ex, indulge in self-blame and then analyze the true roots of that self-blame, etc. I look at how I've developed as a person over the past year and a half and I feel so, so, SOOOOO much stronger overall than I ever did. I feel like that foundation of self-analysis and mourning has enabled me truly to put my feet on the ground and feel just how solidly they're planted. The danger rarely lies in examining TOO MUCH; most problems within and among people lie in too LITTLE examination--of motivations, feelings, wishes. Link to post Share on other sites
ZenSilk Posted July 3, 2008 Share Posted July 3, 2008 If only enough people actually DID bother to examine the past, we'd all be living in a much healthier present. There's way too much obsession--if we're going to use the word "obsession" in the context of healing process--with quick fixes in this culture. It comes as a surprise to many that one can actually scrutinize the past while still being grounded in the present, that one can examine one's wishes and fantasies regarding another person and still be healthfully oriented towards themselves and what actions they can take towards being content within themselves. When I was in the throes of mourning and analyzing the breakup of my 5-years-long relationship on here, I got some wonderful support as well as quite a bit of flack for "over-analyzing." You know what? Now that I'm past the thick of the mourning process, I feel I have the perspective to say that boy am I glad I really took the time to meditate, analyze, mourn, long and weep for my ex, indulge in self-blame and then analyze the true roots of that self-blame, etc. I look at how I've developed as a person over the past year and a half and I feel so, so, SOOOOO much stronger overall than I ever did. I feel like that foundation of self-analysis and mourning has enabled me truly to put my feet on the ground and feel just how solidly they're planted. The danger rarely lies in examining TOO MUCH; most problems within and among people lie in too LITTLE examination--of motivations, feelings, wishes. Sure. You have both extremes. No examination, thus repeating the same patterns over and over. Or over-analysis, which can lead fast to a victimization. Thinking "omg, I always do this the same way, because as a child this and this happened, and now I'm programmed to react this way!". At some point it's important to stop cycling and tell yourself you actually have a choice. You can really change the patterns. Sometimes it just takes a while (or a kick in the ass in some way in your life) to realize how. I agree that one can examine the past and be grounded in the present. For me, it's taken months to accept the past as past and look at the choices I have NOW. Link to post Share on other sites
twice_shy Posted July 3, 2008 Share Posted July 3, 2008 Hi Twice-- do you have any threads or a summary of how you got to the point of not wanting your ex and not caring what's happening in her life now? I stopped caring what happened the day she moved out which was about 2 weeks after i filed for divorce. Once I found out that she was a serial cheater, all I wanted was for her to go away. And for those 2 weeks I had to care because she was still living in the house. Once she was out I was glad. How long did it take for you to reach acceptance and indifference and were there any particular things, techniques, moments, realizations, a-has, that helped you get there? I'd say about 2 or 3 weeks after the shock of finding out all that she had done during the marriage. After that I was numb and the only thing in my mind was, "get this skank away from me". Link to post Share on other sites
Author sunshinegirl Posted July 3, 2008 Author Share Posted July 3, 2008 Only you can answer that one. In reviewing what you said about being unable to love someone you don't respect, particularly someone you considered a ten-year old, do you feel it's love? I've been thinking about this quite a bit. My guess is that I love his potential; I love the man I think must exist somewhere underneath his selfish, disrespectful, childish behavior as described above. I am (too) forgiving of people's crap behavior once I'm emotionally invested; my empathy knows no bounds and I excuse a lot for the sake of keeping the relationship. (But boy, I can usually see crap behavior in others from a mile away which is why I don't often find myself in relationships - I steer clear from some of the more obvious flags, though I seem to have a blind spot for the unavailable narcissists.) I am sure I am also conflating my love of the lifestyle and physical companionship we had together - the 'surface' stuff - with him as a person. Link to post Share on other sites
Trialbyfire Posted July 3, 2008 Share Posted July 3, 2008 I've been thinking about this quite a bit. My guess is that I love his potential; I love the man I think must exist somewhere underneath his selfish, disrespectful, childish behavior as described above. I am (too) forgiving of people's crap behavior once I'm emotionally invested; my empathy knows no bounds and I excuse a lot for the sake of keeping the relationship. (But boy, I can usually see crap behavior in others from a mile away which is why I don't often find myself in relationships - I steer clear from some of the more obvious flags, though I seem to have a blind spot for the unavailable narcissists.) I am sure I am also conflating my love of the lifestyle and physical companionship we had together - the 'surface' stuff - with him as a person. This man doesn't exist. You're like fox, experiencing the betrayed's double vision, the man who you thought he was/could be and the child he really is. Go back to your list and see him for who he really is. Also, with someone like this, you will be addicted to the highs in the cycle of highs and lows. It's like a withdrawal, DT situation. Break the addiction! Link to post Share on other sites
Author sunshinegirl Posted July 3, 2008 Author Share Posted July 3, 2008 This man doesn't exist. You're like fox, experiencing the betrayed's double vision, the man who you thought he was/could be and the child he really is. Go back to your list and see him for who he really is. Thank you. This is the truth I need to have settle into my bones. That might be my biggest hurdle to getting over him. You'll notice I started this thread talking about my fear that this man DOES exist and someone else will bring him out and get to be with him. I will use my list and your comments to help confront the thoughts when they intrude. Also, with someone like this, you will be addicted to the highs in the cycle of highs and lows. It's like a withdrawal, DT situation. Break the addiction! Do you mean during the relationship there were highs/lows? (I would probably disagree - I often said it was the most drama-free relationship I'd ever had... likely because there was so little depth to it, and I didn't demand he step up, open up, at least act like he liked my friends, etc.). Or just in the post-breakup addiction-breaking cycle? I am definitely familiar with the analogy of getting over someone as being like overcoming substance abuse. NC and all that to help break the addiction... Link to post Share on other sites
Trialbyfire Posted July 3, 2008 Share Posted July 3, 2008 Or just in the post-breakup addiction-breaking cycle? I am definitely familiar with the analogy of getting over someone as being like overcoming substance abuse. NC and all that to help break the addiction...The roller coaster usually starts close to the break up and then goes on from there! Link to post Share on other sites
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