Dating a much older man.....

[charlotte]

I am dating a man that is a lot older than me, I am 18 and he is 33. We have been dating in secrecy for about a year now. We haven't went public with our relationship for several reasons:

 

1) I just graduated from the high school where he teaches...he was, in fact, my biology teacher. And if anyone knew about our relationship he would lose his job and possibly go to jail...so yeah..that's an obvious reason.

2) I just turned 18 last month.

3) If my parents knew I was dating my biology teacher, they would FREAK!

4) His divorce was final about 7 months ago (they were already seperated when we started dating.) and he has a 10 year old daughter.

 

Those are just the major reasons we kept our relationship secret, but there are a bunch of other reasons too. Mostly in the beginning it was just about sex, but the more time we spend together, it's like we are falling in love. And I truly believe I am falling in love with him and he tells me he loves me too. We want to take our relationship to another level by going public and meeting each other's families, but I don't know. I am really scared. But I know it would bring us closer. And I am tired of sneaking around about it. But I am afraid that people would realize that it's been going on for a long time.

 

Should we wait longer or what? My feelings for him get stronger every day, and I want people to know about us, but I don't want any controversy or negative things to come out of this relationship. Can anyone offer some advice?

[Curt]

Well, I guess I can offer a first-hand opinion on this issue Charlotte, as I am a teacher myself.

 

I realize that, at this point in your life, some of what I have written below may be difficult to read, and even more difficult to consider and live with. I understand that what you are feeling may appear to be VERY "real" and exciting to you. Nonetheless, I urge you to keep an open mind while pouring through this.

 

Charlotte, to be honest from the outset, your Biology teacher has taken a huge professional risk in even seeing you as "relationship material." He took a far larger risk by having sexual contact with you. Nevertheless, I know, given your comment regarding jail, that you realize this too.

 

Even neglecting law issues (some provinces and states define the age of consent differently) he has broken the teacher's code of ethics, and has completely shattered a community standard for the conduct of a teacher.

 

You said that your parents would freak if they knew about your relationship with your teacher. Charlotte, there is a very good reason why that is so. As your teacher, he was put (by the school district, and ultimately the parents in the district) in a position demanding strict lines of moral conduct around students. As such, his obligations to you, his student, far exceeded those of any other "general" member of your community. It is similar to the professional behaviour demanded for doctors, etc.

 

He chose to not follow his obligations to you. You were still considered a youth when you both got intimate. Even if you enjoy the time you spend with him, he has already failed you in a major way. Could you feel as comfortable if, say, a 17-year old sister or brother was heard to have had sex, and started a relationship with your family doctor ?

 

Think back to when you both got close. Only you know how it happened, of course. However, from what you wrote, he had recently been separated, and as such was likely in a state of emotional upheaval. That probably messed up his head a bit (although no excuse for this situation). The whole thing sounds to me as a completely lust/sex-based thing from the start. I would seriously question his judgement in pursuing any relationship, let alone one such as this, after just separating from his wife.

 

You want to go public with all this but don't want any negative critique of the whole situation ? Well Charlotte, this all will come out, eventually. Nothing like this remains hidden forever, no matter how well concealed. Do any of your friends know about this ... if so, chances are others know also. Did any other teachers have suspicions ... I would almost bet that there is more known than what you might think. In any case, when it does come out, he is going to be in pretty hot water. It will affect his job, will affect his future, and may even affect custody of his daughter if things get protracted and nasty.

 

Not a good scene.

 

Curt

[Charlotte]

Well, Curt, I will tell you how it came to be -

 

He is also the assistant football coach for the varsity team. I have been a cheerleader for the whole 4 years I was in high school. The cheerleaders and the football team spend a LOT of time together during the football season and we were always really flirty with each other, but thats not unusual, because a lot of the coaches are like that with the cheerleaders and everyone knows that's just how they are. And I have always thought this particular coach was so gorgeous and I even had fantasies about us getting together. Well last summer, during football camp, us cheerleaders would come and have summer practices at the school too. One day, I decided to stay after practice with some of the girls and make football signs so we wouldn't have so many to do when the season started. I was just finishing up and my friends had just left and I was putting the signs in the field house, where we keep them and this coach (we'll call him Coach Smith) walked out and he was just about to leave too. Noone was there except me and him because this was hours after practice had ended.

We just started chatting about football and school and stuff, I mean we had talked several times before on the bus and what not, I mean I had known him for 3 years prior. Well, the talking became a little flirtacious and of course, I didn't mind. He started talking about his seperation from his wife and how he liked younger girls because they weren't so "complex" as older women. And he just started saying that he's always thought I was a beautiful girl and he knew I had great potential and would make any man so lucky. Then he asked if I liked to date older men. I said yes, that the boys my age were so immature, and he said that a girl like me needed a real man. He then asked if I would want to go out with him sometime. I of course said yes that I would love to. Then he kissed me.

I still remember it like it was yesterday. HE is an amazing kisser and he is so gorgeous.

we didn't actually have sex until like our third date. Well, I say date, but it was actually just hanging out at his house, watching movies and eating dinner and stuff.

But when we did have sex, he didn't pressure me into it at all. I wanted to. If anything, I suggested it, not him.

After that, we only met about once a week so people wouldn't suspect anything and at school we always maintained a teacher-student relationship. Noone ever suspected a thing. And noone knows. Not even my best friend.

So maybe this will help you understand our relationship a little better.

It's more than sex. I know he cares about me, I mean, why would he risk so much if he didn't?

I know a lot is at stake, but to me, it's worth it. I am falling in love with him, and he with me. My parents know that I am dating someone, but they think that i Just started dating him and they are asking to meet him. I told them his real name, but not his last name. I know they have no idea it is my teacher, but I would love us to have a regular relationship.

 

I don't know...maybe we will just have to keep it a secret for a little while longer. But I am not letting him go.

[Tony T]

I pray that I never, ever have a daughter who, at age 17, begins a relationship with one of her teachers....who is not yet divorced....who has a 10-year-old daughter...and who has insufficient respect for me to tell me. The idea terrifies me.

 

I think this decision you have made is a bad one but given your age I certainly understand. One day you will see that the man you are interested in has the morals and ethics of a snake in seducing a young, naive student of his....using his position of authority as a teacher to lure a minor into a relationship to help ease his pain during his divorce.

 

Unfortunately, YOU will be the one who suffers tremendous emotional pain in the end once this man heals from his broken marriage and prepares to move on once he is jolted into reality.

 

I also can understand why you don't want to see this. When I was your age, I didn't want to see anything except what I wanted to. It's OK. Stay in your fanatasy for now...reality can suck. You will never have a "regular" relationship with a snake.

[Curt]

Charlotte, as a teacher (and as a man) I have to admit that I am deeply troubled by this post. Please read the following comments and answer these questions with an open mind.

 

When you wrote:

 

...we were always really flirty with each other, but thats not unusual, because a lot of the coaches are like that with the cheerleaders

 

I am confident that you can see that this should neither be usual nor appropriate for the coaches. They are teachers in trust positions like any other teacher at the school. Because they spend a lot of time with you all on the field, on road trips to games, etc., it doesn't mean they are excused from their codes of conduct as teachers. They are in leadership positions where they should show you all best practices for behavior. If this flirting is going on, whether the cheerleaders and/or coaches find it "fun" or not, it lowers the standard for everyone.

 

I have always thought this particular coach was so gorgeous and I even had fantasies about us getting together.

 

It's normal at your age to fantasize...normal part of growing up.

 

...this coach (we'll call him Coach Smith) walked out and he was just about to leave too.

 

In my humble opinion, that he "just walked up" may not have been a coincidence. I wonder if he was not very aware that you were there, and that you were alone.

 

Noone was there except me and him because this was hours after practice had ended.

 

How long had it been since your last cheer leading buddy had left? How long did you stay behind yourself ? Even disregarding this, it was not advisable for a man in his position to be alone with a girl your age. Nowadays, Charlotte, it is not uncommon that a teacher will have (as a matter of appropriate process) another teacher/colleague present when speaking alone with a student. It is particularly important when a teacher has to speak to a student of the opposite sex.

 

Well, the talking became a little flirtacious and of course, I didn't mind.

 

Again Charlotte, you know in your heart that that was inappropriate for him. You were a minor, and he was an adult. If this in itself were not enough, he was in a position of authority as a teacher. His flirtation with students (of any sex) was not and is not a fitting behavior in this situation.

 

He started talking about his seperation from his wife and how he liked younger girls because they weren't so "complex" as older women.

 

It was out of place to start with, but even if that is to be overlooked for the sake of explanation, I guess it comes down to the fact that there is a big difference between a younger WOMAN and a youth.

 

As irritating as this may seem to see, you were a youth, Charlotte. If he was going for a 23, or 28-year old WOMAN or whatever, so be it. He should not have had "eyes" for a youth, and certainly not one of the students in his care.

 

I'm sorry to lay the numbers idea on you, because I know that cuts through younger people like a laser. The truth is, however, that there are standards of age-appropriate behavior for adults to follow in dating ... not even to mention those standards for teachers, which go far beyond that.

 

And he just started saying that he's always thought I was a beautiful girl and he knew I had great potential and would make any man so lucky. Then he asked if I liked to date older men.

 

Charlotte, when you examine this from an outside perspective, do you feel that that statement was wise for him to make, given his age and position. How would it have changed if your parents, other teachers, or an administrator had been present ?

 

I said yes, that the boys my age were so immature...

 

It is an established fact that many boys mature less rapidly than similarly aged girls. You will find guys of your age that are very mature, though. I have taught some fairly "mature for their age" boys and girls in Grade 10. But would I ask them such a question ? For obvious reasons, I would not.

 

He said that a girl like me needed a real man. He then asked if I would want to go out with him sometime. I of course said yes that I would love to. Then he kissed me.

 

Notice what he said here...a girl like you needed a real man. Was he thinking of you as a woman when he said this ? If not...then you were a girl...he was a man. Reflect on what that truly entails, Charlotte.

 

I have to wonder what the "line" is for him. For example, would he also think it's OK to follow a 15 or 16-year old girl into the girls' locker room after hours to "enjoy her beauty" as she showered ?

 

Would he have done so to you, Charlotte ? Would he have sex with you there and then if he was certain no other person would see you both ?

 

Fact is I don't know. Nonetheless. I am trying to propose a simple question. What are his standards for conduct ? I wonder if he consider any of the other, younger GIRLS desirable ?

 

It's worrisome to say the least...

 

Charlotte, at the same time, it's great for him to think well of you as a young person (character wise), but to take things to this extreme ? Consider the realities.

 

I still remember it like it was yesterday. HE is an amazing kisser and he is so gorgeous.

 

He may kiss well. After all, remember, he is a husband (even if separated) and father of a little girl who may think the world of him. I would ask what she would think of him if she finds this out in a few years down the road. Could shatter her opinion of him in my estimation. Gorgeous ? Perhaps handsome from the outside, yes.

 

we didn't actually have sex until like our third date. Well, I say date, but it was actually just hanging out at his house, watching movies and eating dinner and stuff. But when we did have sex, he didn't pressure me into it at all. I wanted to. If anything, I suggested it, not him.

 

Third "date" and he was having intercourse with a minor. Please forgive me if I don't really find his behavior stellar Charlotte. Even if you had thrown yourself in his lap butt naked, he should have refused point blank. This was a critical point where he should have slammed the brakes on hard and fast. That never happened. Think of this from an outsider's perspective, and it will take on a completely different look.

 

After that, we only met about once a week so people wouldn't suspect anything and at school we always maintained a teacher-student relationship. Noone ever suspected a thing. And noone knows. Not even my best friend.

 

Remember Charlotte, that first day you both spent kissing, etc., was not representative in a "normal" student-teacher relationship. If you were both having sex in your "alone time," and carrying on as if this were a mature, adult relationship like any other, I believe that maintaining a 100% teacher-student stance at school would have been difficult.

 

Think of it this way:

 

A stray glance at each other, a wink of an eye, a prolonged smile, a stray touch, whatever...could get noticed. No teachers suspected anything (or still do) ? Perhaps, but I wouldn't be so certain. Teachers are VERY VERY observant individuals. Why? We are paid to be. We have to be aware of many things going on about us at the same time. It's part of teaching a class, or for that matter, coaching a team. If you met at his place, you had to get there somehow...did anyone recognize you two meeting (even if the meeting was discreetly planned) ? Do not lure yourself into a false sense of security.

 

It's more than sex. I know he cares about me, I mean, why would he risk so much if he didn't?

 

Truth is of course that I don't know what was going on in his mind. I am certainly not suggesting that he didn't see your value as a young person. In fact, I think that sometimes teachers can see most clearly of all the true spirit that young people bring to the world. However, this is a different tangent to take altogether.

 

Reasons for him taking such a risk? I would suggest perhaps a "confused" state regarding his separation and impending divorce probably played a major role. Add to that questions over his value as a partner that always arise after such a thing (especially if he sees the collapse of his marriage as an attack on his manhood.) No matter what his reasons, though, they cannot be used as an excuse for this.

 

I know a lot is at stake, but to me, it's worth it.

 

I hope you both are able to come to terms with this when everything breaks wide open. Charlotte, I'm not standing in judgment of either of you. I am merely attempting to get you to realize the nature of this situation, and what it will mean to both of you when the light shines brightly on it, and everything comes to bear.

 

I would love us to have a regular relationship.

 

I don't honestly think that there is even the most remote of possibilities that this will happen.

 

I don't know...maybe we will just have to keep it a secret for a little while longer.

 

I'm sorry Charlotte. I feel bad for you, because in this situation, you were swept up into something that you were going to have difficulty in assessing objectively. He was the one who should have been the adult. He should have chosen not to go this route.

 

It might have even been different if he had true feelings for you, but knew to wait until you were finished college (or at least until you were some years into it) to pursue a relationship with you. Then, you both would have probably been able to meet up and get to know each other on a different level, as adults.

 

ASIDE:I don't even know if the "future relationship" would have been completely acceptable to some communities and school districts. Nonetheless, if you were both adults, I don't know how much they could have done to stop it. ))) I believe it is frowned upon generally nonetheless, for obvious reasons.

 

In any event, this is not going to be easy if you guys continue this. Rest assured, there will be huge consequences for all concerned.

 

But I am not letting him go.

 

Charlotte, I know you won't want to hear this but, if you really do LOVE him as you say you do, you will let him go, if for no other reason than his own good.

 

Very troubling situation in my estimation.

 

Curt

[jenny]

judging from the amount that you are romanticizing this man and this situation, it seems clear to me that you intend to go ahead and pursue this relationship. everyone has to be free to make their own mistakes and gather their own experiences, so more power to you. but, if you don't mind a few practical tips from someone who has had a similar relationship:

 

1. Do NOT become financially dependent on him. Look carefully at the compliments he has given you - they are generic and they privilege youth and simplicity - he seeks qualities in women that *require* a new woman every few years or so. that is, don't kid yourself. you are replaceable and you already have proof that he will not let ethics stand in his way or finding new young and 'not-complex' girls. stay with him if you have to, but make sure you have a job and continue your education so you can go forth and meet new, better, men yourself when he finds the new cheerleader. if you marry him, make sure you get a pre-nup that covers this eventuality.

 

2. Recognize your own power. Do not let him convince that you need him; you don't. the whole world of possibilities is open to you and you can change your mind about this horny schmuck any time you want to.

 

3. Keep your own friends and keep dating other people until he makes the relationship public. Know that not many people will find your story romantic - they will likely find the man pathetic, the girl naive, and both of you lacking in ethics.

 

4. Do not have children with him or befriend his child until you have a publicly established relationship.

 

5. Know that you are now making a conscious choice and can not claim to be a victim in this situation. Is this the kind of person you hoped to be? Is this your ideal man? You sound very kind, smart, and beautiful - is he really good enough for you? A banal lecherous coach versus some amazing boy who could quote Marlowe at you?

 

xox j

[quankanne]

ugh ... this just sounds like a really bad plot for a very stereotyped "luv" story ...

 

charlotte, wake up and smell the coffee. You're nothing more than an easy and dependable lay for someone who has no qualms about finding fresh quarry at the workplace. If the guy actually "cares" about you, he'd have found a way to reserve his feelings until AFTER you graduated from high school. Why? because you wouldn't be a student at the school he teaches at, you'd be of age (yes, that little piece of paper they hand you signifies more than just completing four years of study ... people tend to look at you as an adult, for the most part) and you would be assured that you could actually give this relationship a fighting chance by not having to keep it undercover.

 

In recent years, you've probably seen news reports on TV or read in the paper about the scandal that's hit the church concerning sex abuse. Priests molesting little kids and making them keep it secret. Priests having relationships with women of the age of consent, and making them keep it secret. Why? because a Catholic priest has pledged a vow of celibacy which means staying single and no sex, and by entering into physical relationships with people, he violates the code of ethics that go with his job. The straw that broke the camel's back came out of Dallas, about a pedophile priest that abused young boys for years and years but "convinced" the boys that they shouldn't tell anyone because who would understand? The Dallas paper was in its heyday "exposing" all the priests who'd engaged in that kind of behavior ...

 

Now guess which group of folks the paper has targeted in its reporting on abuse? Yep, the guys and gals entrusted with educating the youth of society, the teachers. Your coach "i'm a toad" smith is exactly the type of person who would be featured in their reports, because as Curt points out, he's violated the standards he has agreed to uphold as your teacher.

 

If this doesn't move you, think about this: what if you'd heard stories about the junior high principal saying suggestive things to your 12-year-old sister or female cousin? Do you think he was overstepping the boundaries of ethics because she was a minor student? Or does that bug you any? Lets go one step further and say, well, this principal has been watching your female relative for awhile now, and has decided that because she's now 16, the age of consent in your state/province, it's okay to make suggestive remarks to her. How would you advise her? What would make that situation wrong in your eyes? What if she tells you she loves him and wants to begin a sexual relationship with him? Then what? Suppose she did and she ended up pregnant, but she tells you that's okay because she knows he loves her and he's getting a divorce anyway ...

 

It's not exactly your situation, but I hope you get an idea of why it's unethical for a grown man who has agreed to uphold certain moral standards to use the female high school population as his dating fodder.

 

quankanne

[clia]

Very good posts, Curt.