How to start from scratch in 12 mo separation ?

[HeatherAngel]

I totally agree with ShareBear - keep the faith, friend. I am struggling, as each day without contact makes me wonder WHY it is so easy for him not to talk to me after 17 years... but maybe it isn't easy for him either. Maybe it is. I don't know, and I only torture myself wondering endlessly.

 

I am scared, too. Scared he is just going through the motions of agreement to get out, and saying he will try with me to let me catch up to where he is in the process of divorce. Who knows? Only he does. I knwo nothing, until he talks to me... of he ever does.

 

Hang in there SD. Love is a powerful, brutal life force. You are in my thoughts.

 

Share - is your story here somewhere? What and how did your husband come 'round? I'd love to know the basis of your success story. There is SO much negativity and 'kick him to the curb' here, it would be good to know of the success I yearn for.

[SingleDad]

Thanks Sharebear and Heatherangel for your support - I feel the same way.

 

I broke the NC/LC rule... I don't like it - it doesn't fit my situation anymore

 

We have had LC since she moved out June 27th - I was so angry for what she has done that I demonstrated by avoiding her.

 

Yet reading "His Needs, Her Needs" and having so much time to think.... I have thought about her needs.

 

STBXW needs attention, she needs communication, she needs someone to listen to her, she is dependent on others to hear her, she needs affection...

 

I was not giving her enough of this, certainly for the 6 months before all of this began in January (I has stress overload with work and then not being able to unwind when I got home with 2 yo child and demanding wife).

 

If there is any way to save our marriage during this separation - it is for me to show her how much I love to talk with her, how much I will now listen to her and understand her needs, how I can give her affection, how I can be there for her.

 

If I do not do this - she will certainly find it from another man. If she already has another man - I have to do it better than him to win my wife back.

 

I need to give her what she wants. Yes it will make her decision to divorce me easier because it will give her consolation that she did the right thing. But I know if I just remain angry and distant, a divorce is emminent.

 

I need to add to her "love bank" as Dr. Harley describes in his book.

 

I called her cell in the drive in today. I told her that I miss her, I miss talking with her, I miss being with her, I want to start from scratch. You are the most important thing to me that I will be friends with you even if I have to compete with a boyfriend for this time with you. I did not give you enough attention over the last year, I did not listen to you enough, etc.

 

She did listen to me and said that it takes a divorce action for me to understand her. I said I never knew how bad it was for you - let me know if you ever get to start feeling that way again. She said she will never let that happen again to her. I said I understand and I will be sure I will never do it again. (I am a wuss).

 

Anyway then we then talked about our daughter for 20 minutes.

 

.... I fell off the mountain, now deep in the valley and I just climbed over my first rock... on the way to climb back up the mountain... I will be a long arduous haul, but at least now I have better gear and a knowledge of what I am up against.

[SingleDad]

continuing -

 

I never really understood my STBXW. She wanted me to understand her emotionally, spiritually and physically. I had asked her sure tell me what I need to do ? She had always told me I need to figure that out for myself... I never could... I am a concrete guy, an accountant and Investment consultant... I've always need action steps... A goal.

 

Now I have a plan... the "Love Bank" per Dr. Harley's "His Needs Her Needs". Thinking of her needs as a love bank will make it very easy to understand. I need to continue to make deposits into her love bank and avoid any arguments which would be withdrawals. I have to please her... more than anyone else can.

 

Her selfish and me selfless - maybe ?? But I think that is what it will take to get back her friendship and maybe start to re-kindle a love. I think it would be worth it in the end... My desire is to get my family back.

 

Of course I will have plenty of time to work on myself and get my own strength and independence back.

 

See I am optimistic today... Had a good talk with STBXW - still a long road ahead...

[imagine]

Hey SD

 

There's an awful lot of us that have read that book and all the rest of the stuff by Dr Harley. We recommend these readings to posters who just don't bother. I am so glad that you have now tapped into something really meaty. And Yes! This will definitely give you and others a track record proven, direction.

 

All posters in similar situation as SD PLEASE take note.

 

I would go slow talking too much about getting back together at this stage. Let her make that move. However apologizing for letting her down sounded like an excellent first move. Slowly, slowly catchee monkey principle works here. In other words, consistent love deposits is the key.

 

Ladyjane gave some most excellent recent advice on (I think) Breaking up and Divorce section which included Thirty four great tips from the Divorce Busters website.

 

I woulda linked it but I'm still learning how.

 

 

 

[imagine]

 

Ladyjane gave some most excellent recent advice on (I think) Breaking up and Divorce section which included Thirty four great tips from the Divorce Busters website.

 

 

 

Found it: It was "New me again???" thread by Wannabehappy - Separation and divorce section.

[SingleDad]

Found it thanks:

 

This is from Michelle Weiner Davis' book Divorcebusting:

 

Quote:

 

 

1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or

implore!

2. No frequent phone calls

3. Do not point out good points in marriage

4. Do not follow him around the house

5. Do not encourage talk about the future

6. Do not ask for help from family members

7. Do not ask for reassurances

8. Do not buy gifts

9. Do not schedule dates together

10. Do not spy on spouse

11. Do not say "I Love You"

12. Act as if you are moving on with your life

13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive

14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get

busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends,

etc.

15. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start

the conversation) be scarce or short on words

16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his

whereabouts, ASK NOTHING

17. You need to make your partner think that you have

had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you

are going to move on with your life, with or without

your spouse

18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull

back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more

important, realize what he will be missing

19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show

your spouse happiness and contentment. Show him

someone he would want to be around.

20. All questions about marriage should be put on

hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which

may be a while)

21. Never lose your cool

22. Don't be overly enthusiiastic

23. Do not argue about how he feels (it only makes

their feelings stronger)

24. Be patient

25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really

saying to you

26. Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you

want to speak out

27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh &

focus on all the other parts of your life that are not

in turmoil)

28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly

29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest

CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any

words you can say or write

30. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you

are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy

31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with

your spouse

32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than

50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in

absolute negatives because he is hurting and scared

33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad

you feel

34. Do not backslide from your hardearned changes

 

 

Great stuff - I read one of her books already...

 

I'll put these points into action or inaction as it may be.

 

Thanks Imagine !!

[Nomad1]

SD - I have read the threads of many posters in your situation and it is amazing how predictable the pattern of behaviour displayed, eg. as in your case, commitment to the relationship, pleading etc. There is usually the discovery of OM/OW that follows and the stance changes, things move quickly to divorce. I would file for divorce straight away. Why would you want to coax another mature adult into agreeing to something they clearly don't want? That is not based on mutual consent. It sounds manipulative. You should only need to speak to her once, if she is not interested, divorce her and move forward. All the love bank stuff is a waste of time. Don't believe the hype. Relationships are about maturity and mutuality. If one bails, the othe should go in the opposite direction!

 

Nomad1

[SingleDad]

Nomad - I understand my chances.

 

You are also not familiar with my thread. I am legally separated for another 11 months - W cannot or will not file D for another 11 months at earliest. W bought house. I have already assumed that she has OM.

 

None of that changes my position.

 

She wanted to save the marriage before... I didn't get it... I didn't know what she wanted or how serious she was... I didn't know how to give her what she wanted.... I didn't know what I wanted.

 

We have a 2.5 yo daughter together... I will have a relationship with STBXW one way or another for 15 years or more.

 

At this point we are either friends or remain angry and distant... being angry and distant will serve no good to anyone.

 

So we become friends... which is what she has always wanted even within a marriage... you can't have a great marriage if your are not friends within the marriage.

 

I do not know if the marriage can be saved, but at least I can try to make some sort of relationship work.

[Nomad1]

This is not the time to be her friend. You need to emotionally detach first, then maybe in a year or so, you might be able to communicate without arguments. Whilst you are attached, you will argue, you will get frustrated by what she does / says. When you detach, you will be totally indifferent. I guess you will have to go through it to realise.

 

Good luck SD

 

Niomad1

[SingleDad]

problem is 1 year is too late - she could get D by then.

 

This divorce action started in January, physical separation started in April, legal separation effective June 12, she moved out June 27.

 

Went through months of arguing and pleading, then weeks and months of LC

 

How long should I continue to be angry or indifferent...

 

What will that solve for me or my daughter...

 

The only chance I have is to start by being friends with STBXW and see what happens.

 

Doing anything else will lead to a divorce for sure - I know that for certain.

[sharebear823]

Hi HeatherAngel:

 

My thread is called something like "After five year separation, can we get back together?" I just started posting a few days back.

 

I am not sure if my case is so different from everyone else's on here, except that we got tons of individual, marital, and family counseling, and neither of us ever had the heart to actually file the papers for the divorce. Deep down inside I think we both have known that we did not want to go down the path to the actual divorce.

 

However, having said that, during the five years both of us have thought we wanted to move on and tried to move on, and we've both been involved in other relationships since my husband left.

 

I really think in our case, we finally just gave up on trying to get back what we once had. Once we let go of that, and all the blame and fear and anger and, yes, hate, we felt toward each other, then we could forgive each other and that opened the door for us to try for a brand new relationship with each other. It is that feeling that we can build something NEW that is propelling us forward. The past is dead and gone and over, and truthfully, good riddance! It was so full of pain and anger, I don't want to go back to that!! Instead I really feel compelled to build a new, much more solid and hopefully lasting relationship with this same man.

 

Having said that, it took me FOREVER to forgive him for moving out of the house, and I didn't think it would ever happen. Just recently I started to see, though, that he moved out because it was impossible for him to stay...because we were fighting so much and disrespecting each other, and we'd completely lost sight of why we were together in the first place.

 

He and I have a very strong spiritual bond, and I think maybe that got covered up somehow, too, because of all the stress and miscommunications we had. His moving out and being out for so long forced us to break the negative cycle and patterns.

 

So, now I believe that his moving out is what allowed us to try to get back together.

 

It's really hard to explain, and I wish I could be clearer. Also, the fact is, we are just talking about wanting to see if we can get back together at this point, and we are taking baby steps at this point. It's all very tentative, and may not happen at all. But, I feel we are in a much better place for it to happen now than we have been since he left. So, we'll see...

 

SingleDad, sorry I confiscated your thread!! You and I are similar, I think, in that we both see the value of not giving up easily, in part because of the profound sense of responsibility we feel toward our children to not give them a broken home, and in part because we believe in the sanctity of marriage. That's a great thing you have working in your favor, I think. No matter what, you will never regret having given it every possible opportunity to work. If it doesn't, you can move forward, knowing in your heart you did everything you possibly could, to try to make it work out.

 

By the way, 40 is NOT over the hill! I've got you beat by about 7 years, Dude!!

[SingleDad]

sharebear - no problem treading on my thread...

 

I think we have similar situations other than you are 5 years into your separation - I can forsee our separation similar to yours - as long as we can begin to communicate without arguing.

 

There was too much negative energy in our relationship, stress and aggrevation... I think she got depressed and could not handle it anymore... thinks I am the source of her unhappiness...

 

being apart is certainly helping me see what is important...

 

Even during this separation process... she would sometimes behave like this is just normal routine (her mom's divorced couple times)... everything will be fine, etc.

 

Well I'm hoping the time apart will help both of us realize why we loved each other and see if we can re-kindle it. She could be feeling guilty for having an affair (if she is) and just need to re-build herself...

 

We are on talking terms now, yet infrequently... I think we can build a friendship at least. But I am hoping for at least some sort of family get togethers... even if we do not live together... I can vision it happening... she would still have her independence and space, but have some connection to her daughter's father.

 

I do not plan to give up as she has... I think that will prove to her how much I love her... (deep down inside, I would think she would think very badly of me if I just walked away when she pulled away). I almost think she might respect me more for keeping the hope alive...yet she just doesn't want the pressure from me or me expecting that we will get back together.

 

Again it will be a long haul up a steep mountain.

[sharebear823]

Hi, SingleDad:

 

It's like walking a tightrope. You are right, time is what is needed, and you have to be willing to give it that time. I don't know if you fish or not, but it's a lot like trying to reel in that fish that wants to fight you every step of the way. Just keep giving her more line, and slowly and steadily start to reel her in. (Sorry if that's a crass analogy, but it does make the point, I think!)

 

You have to have patience and intestinal fortitude, and always look at the big picture, while also never letting go of the possibility that it may be all for naught, and you have to believe that either way, you are going to be fine. Don't compromise your principles. Always maintain your self-respect. (Gunner is a good one to listen to on that front, I think!)

 

Believe me, you will be very glad that you took the high road, no matter what the result. Your daughter will love you for it, and you may be laying the foundation for a reconciliation with your wife, and it may take five years for that to happen, or it may not happen at all, and in that case you will have laid the foundation for yourself to move on with dignity.

 

It's painful, and obviously there are a lot of folks who just don't want to go through that kind of pain and just want to cut their losses and move on. No one can blame them for that, as everyone is different. However, I think it's painful either way, and a lot of folks just try to bury their pain by any means possible, rather than facing up to it and taking time to heal. A lot of those people seem to just jump into a new relationship or become addicted to something, or just become angry and bitter.

 

For me, I just know that my husband is a good man, and I think I am a good woman, but we just got caught up in a really bad set of circumstances that led to poor choices on both of our parts. Now we just want to see if we can make it work, and if so, that would be the best possible outcome, in my opinion.

 

Best wishes to you, and "keep hope alive!":)

[Darth Vader]

She had always told me I need to figure that out for myself...

 

What? You have to be a mind reader NOW! Drop her ASS! Protect yours!

[HeatherAngel]

I appreciate your open, honest response.

 

I have no idea what road lies before me - whether it is with my husband or without him. But I am not yet ready to give up - and I do really think we are better apart right now... I would NEVER have left, and we had begun to lie, and treat each other hideously and verbally and emotionally abusively. It's so odd - the person who left, I can hardly remember him, in such a short time - I wonder if he feels the same way? - and I think that's because I didn't know THAT person. He certainly isn't someone I would choose to be with.

 

So, as we live apart and become whole, healed individuals responsible for our own happiness, perhaps - and I hope this is what will occur - we will be bale to come together again and be better spouses.

 

Hope is a gentle flame, ever-persistent, but in grave danger of being doused by despair.

[n9688m]

Doing anything else will lead to a divorce for sure - I know that for certain.

 

Your present course will lead to divorce for sure.

 

There is a slim chance that a different course might change things.

[n9688m]

I do not plan to give up as she has... I think that will prove to her how much I love her.

 

Or it might make you less desirable to her if you are so persistent in pursuing someone who does not express interest in you in return. That might make you seem desperate, which is not appealing. Far more appealing to her could be seeing you living a happy life without her and expressing indifference toward being with her.

[HeatherAngel]

n - why are you so very negative to those of us with hope? If your own bitterness prevents YOU from aiming for reconciliation in your relationship, fine, but SingleDad and I, and TrustInYourself, and anyone else who HOPES for just that - well, we don't need to be battered about by all the negativity in your recent posts here.

 

Why say anything at all if it MUST be so anti-Second Chances on these threads?? I don't think any of us asked: "Hey, anyone here want to slam my ideals for the future of my (very) long marriage as it SEEMS to be falling apart? Oh yes, and while my world crashes around me, can you please kick me while I am down and reassure me how hopeless my chances for reconciliation are? Thanks!"

 

I know *I* am being negative now, but seriously, your negativity is wearing me out.

[n9688m]

why are you so very negative to those of us with hope?

 

I am not negative at all - just realistic. It's pretty clear from huge numbers of posts that the path SD is taking virtually never leads to success, whereas detaching and remaining distant and beginning to attach elsewhere is about the only strategy that in some cases seems to maybe have some effect.

 

Yes I empathize with SD. Yes I have all sorts of emotions because I too have a walkaway wife and young children. But as much as I wish that were not true, there is no point to my pursuing a path which time and time again has failed for others.

[sharebear823]

I think that most people, perhaps including n9688m, give up and move on, and THAT is why they don't reconcile. If you give up on your spouse, of course you won't stay together...not because it couldn't have worked if you'd tried, but because you gave up too soon.

 

I realize that it is very hard to hold a torch for someone who appears to have moved on, and you don't want to look foolish in front of everyone you know for hanging on to a lost cause. In fact, the prevailing attitude today is to just protect yourself and cut your losses. Almost everyone does it. However, that attitude is really just a cover, in my opinion, for being afraid that you will be further hurt. Your spouse already left you, and your instinct is to protect yourself. But, by allowing fear to rule your life and guide your course, you have already lost the fight.

 

It is only by allowing yourself to be open and vulnerable, and by accepting responsibility for your failings within the marriage and trying to make it right again with your spouse, whom you promised to love and honor, for better or for worse, for life, that you can ever have a prayer of fixing it.

 

Granted, if one person has given up and appears to have no desire to come back to the marriage, that's an incredibly difficult situation to be in. It's very tempting to just throw in the towel, cut your losses, and move on. Yet, trying to mend it is your only choice if you hope to get back together with your spouse. If your spouse has given up, and then you give up, too, then by definition, there can be no hope of reconciliation.

 

I'm not saying it's an easy path, but there is no real harm in trying, and in doing so, you just might be successful. On the other hand, if you give up, you've already failed and there can be no comeback from that, unless you decide to try further down the road.

 

Personally, n...m, I think it's wrong to tell people they can't have hope about their own personal situation that has its own, personal set of circumstances. How do you know? Do you measure everyone else's experiences by what happened to you? If so, maybe you should start to think about why you do that. Perhaps you wish you hadn't given up so easily yourself? I don't know your situation at all, and I sincerely hope you are doing okay.

 

There is value in sounding out ideas, but not everyone thinks the same way, and what is right for one person may not work for someone else.

[Gunny376]

What? You have to be a mind reader NOW! Drop her ASS! Protect yours!

 

 

Come on Darth!

 

You and I have be "in-country" for years NOW!

 

You and I are " VETS"

 

You, LJ, 24A, Drroster, dgrill, a4a, jargrel, Lakesidedreams ~ we all know the drill. Lockstep! We all know the drill!

 

Count candence count!

 

"GI potatoes! GI gravey! GeeeeIeeeeed I wished I'd joined the Navy!

[SingleDad]

Thank you sharebear and heatherangel for your support - that is what I need down this long road with potholes.

 

I frequently have my doubts... and loneliness overwhelms me.

 

I have my daughter for a good part of this weekend, and that always gives me strength to remember what I am fighting for.

 

I have posted this thread for positive strength - not harsh likely reality... I am living that now...

 

I have always said that I do not want to look back on this and realize that I did not do everything that I could to prevent it. Sometimes I wonder if I am doing everything... I sit in LC land so much, how can that help...

 

I know I can't be desperate (i've been spelling that wrong all along)... I can't be clingy...

 

What I know is that my wife thrives on communication (or more precisely her talking and wanting me to listen)... I think she needs that... and I can be there to listen. She has not canceled my cell phone, if that's an indication... She has always wanted to be able to reach me whenever and whereever I am (part of her control)... and absolutely hates when I hang up on her...

 

So I know a few things that can add to the love bank and a few things that can withdraw from the love bank.

 

The house she bought is one mile from the church I found which gives me spiritual strength - mega nondemonational Christian - but what I like is contemporary music and inspitational sermons that relate to daily life and marriage, family and parenting. She has always wanted to find a church and attend regularly - though we didn't while married. I hope someday she will want to go with me... I will ask her again.

 

I am just hoping the lines of communication open up again soon... I'm tired of the LC ... NC and LC are only ways to disconnect from spouse - which is needed at times (especially when angry, one needs space or only argue when talk) - and I went through a month of NC and 3 months of LC. But I believe permanent NC/LC will guarantee a divorce.

 

Talking with W makes me feel like there is still a connection. Even through the separation process she would call me 2-3 times a day. In my case I believe that positive communication is the best first step to prevent a divorce - just have to get back to C again.

[Owl]

SD...I'm sooo glad you've read that book. That's the 'first step' you REALLY needed to take.

 

Now you've started to identify her top emotional needs (affection, communication, etc...). You've started to identify ways to meet them...GREAT!

 

There's two more things you need to juggle into this.

 

First...you have to find ways to meet those needs that don't make you seem like a doormat. Women don't love a man they can't respect. No one respects a doormat. Meet her needs, but don't make your happiness dependent upon meeting them. And don't let her "walk all over you" in the process of meeting them either.

 

Second, you need to continue to make improvements in YOURSELF, and in YOUR LIFE. That whole "moving on" concept applies in this. By taking care of yourself, by demonstrating your ability to deal with things on your own, by not being "needy"/etc...you make yourself more attractive to her. Start working on hobbies you've not done in years...start up a new one that you've wanted to do. Take advantage of the additional free time in your life. Work out. Dress nice. You get the idea, hopefully.

 

I know that the list of 'divorce busters' says no spying...but I'd counter that slightly. I still feel strongly that there's an OM in the shadows here...and your chances of recovering you marriage without doing something about that situation are pretty darned slim.

 

You need intel. Hire a PI, get a friend that she doesn't know to swing by her house and identify cars that are there...there are TONS of things you can do to start to get more information. (have you looked at finance/cell phone records like I'd suggested yet?).

 

Once you know something for sure on that front, there's a lot you can do to put pressure to end the affair...but you can't do anything to make that happen until you've got that intel.

 

Get the intel, formulate your battle plan, and then implement it.

[SingleDad]

It's like walking a tightrope. You are right, time is what is needed, and you have to be willing to give it that time. I don't know if you fish or not, but it's a lot like trying to reel in that fish that wants to fight you every step of the way. Just keep giving her more line, and slowly and steadily start to reel her in.

 

Looks like I will take up fishing !!!

[HeatherAngel]

SD - you had a month of NC? Was that at the beginning of the separation? Did she ask for this?? And how did that break, in the end?