How to start from scratch in 12 mo separation ?

[SingleDad]

tried to add pic to profile - maybe it takes time to set

[Ladyjane14]

She's adorable. :bunny:

 

And dude... you're not exactly a mud fence.

If you put in that "year" and things don't pan out.. I think you're gonna do alright out on the market. You'll have all your new relationship skills too.

 

At some point, you're going to want to model a healthy romantic relationship for your daughter. Girls watch their daddies to learn how they're supposed to be treated by a man, you know.

[SingleDad]

thanks from both of us.

[SingleDad]

Another post:

 

I agree that the fall of my marriage was half of my fault. I did not meet her emotional, physical and spiritual needs. I did not really know what they are, how to satisfy them, or how significant they were to her in keeping the marriage together. I thought my role was more to be the provider for the family - I did most of the chores. I did not quite realize that her needs were different than that - she just wanted someone to connect with her emotionally.

 

In the 6 months before she started the divorce - our marriage was falling apart... My W had such control over raising our daughter - that I felt like I was her servant as did the rest of my family - I became frustrated and was stressed and withdrew from her. W seemed to be overwhelmed and depressed. It was just a downward spiral. I was having trouble making her happy or wanting to make her happy - as I also felt she took me for granted - (I have also learned in raising my daughter that I also took her for granted - it is hard work).

 

The separation has taught me alot about this - and how I am willing to put everything into saving our marriage. My W has fast tracked to her own independence - and privacy from me in her new home. We are certainly not on the same page.... I want to save the marriage - my W doesn't... to her it is my problem... I have to satisfy her needs or she is gone - take it or leave it. Though she is not really giving me any time or opportunity for me to demonstrate my love for her or my desire to meet her emotional needs... She has never expressed any doubt in her mind that a divorce is the best thing.

 

It would be up to me to convince her that I will satisfy her needs (she would do nothing to assist me in satisfying her)... She had expected to change me to learn to meet her needs.... she may be narscistic... she claims she was a great mother and a great wife - though I think I gave to her more than she gave to me.

 

My W emotional needs are that she needs a best friend - someone who understands her completely... knows what she wants without asking. Be there for her whenever she needs it... connect with her emotions and sexual needs (her needs are greater than mine)

 

I want to do everything I can to save the marriage - part of me thinks she will never be happy with me no matter how much I sacrifice myself to meet her needs... Yet I am still have strong desire to do it.

 

I do not want to live the single life... being a single dad is hard - overwhelming to raise my daughter and sad and lonely when I do not have my daughter.

 

Neither is optimal - just hoping If I can re-kindle my marriage and bring my family back together that I have learned from my mistakes and will not neglect her going forward - I believe it is possible to survive this and have a much better marriage than we had before.

[Sks]

Your wife is a b!tch who has personal issues that no one besides her can solve.

[Ladyjane14]

 

My W emotional needs are that she needs a best friend - someone who understands her completely... knows what she wants without asking. Be there for her whenever she needs it... connect with her emotions and sexual needs (her needs are greater than mine)

 

These are NOT realistic ENs though, hon.

It's patently unfair for a woman to EXPECT a man to read her mind, to spend all his time trying to predict her every whim.

 

Look... you might have made some mistakes and those mistakes might have been substantial even... but you can't fault yourself for not having a f*cking crystal ball with which to read her mind on a moment-to-moment basis.

 

People in a relationship have an innate responsibility to share their "needs" with their partner, and in terms which can be understood. ENs are LIMITED to being important within the relationship. IOW, both partners, when on their own, are assumed to be "self-fruitful" in assuring their own happiness. It's when we have the consistent daily compromise of being IN a relationship that we have to concern ourselves with someone else's ENs. ENs are the monetary exchange of our "love bank".

 

Outside the relationship though, and for the purposes of trying to draw a recalcitrant partner back to the marriage... ENs are more like a saucer of milk you'd offer to a barn cat. You might leave it out on the stoop, but you don't follow the cat around, expending ALL your time and energy trying to coax her into have some milk. You know what I'm talking about?

 

I've said it from my first post... your FEAR of divorce is the main thing at issue here. Your own ability to be "self-fruitful" is compromised by this terrible anxiety you have. And while I can't fault you for wanting a two-parent home for your little girl, you have to be WHOLE to be healthy enough for true partnership. This business of being "self-fruitful" is ESSENTIAL... not just to whatever slim possibility of success you might have in your current endeavor, but to EVERYTHING else in your life. This includes your parenting relationship. You need to be whole in order to be the best Dad you can be.

 

I read your other thread, and I know you're having a bad day and "venting"... but dude, I'm just not sure that you actually LOVE this woman. She's been so selfish within the marriage, it wouldn't be hard for me to believe that your "love bank" is (and has been) completely empty. I think there's a possibility here that you might have convinced yourself that you still "love" her... because you're so desperately trying to evade your fear of divorce.

 

At the bottom line, and for your own sake, I'd like to see you putting more of your time and energy into YOU, into learning to be comfortable and content in your own skin, into a full and productive daily life. And I mean ALOT more "time and energy". Leave the saucer out on the stoop, leave the door ajar, be pleasant in you interchanges, be attractive when you see her... but make a priority out of putting this anxiety in perspective. You'll be a better Dad for having done so.. and a better partner sometime in the future, whether it be with your former wife or with someone else.

[TrustInYourself]

Another post:

 

I agree that the fall of my marriage was half of my fault. I did not meet her emotional, physical and spiritual needs. I did not really know what they are, how to satisfy them, or how significant they were to her in keeping the marriage together. I thought my role was more to be the provider for the family - I did most of the chores. I did not quite realize that her needs were different than that - she just wanted someone to connect with her emotionally.

 

In the 6 months before she started the divorce - our marriage was falling apart... My W had such control over raising our daughter - that I felt like I was her servant as did the rest of my family - I became frustrated and was stressed and withdrew from her. W seemed to be overwhelmed and depressed. It was just a downward spiral. I was having trouble making her happy or wanting to make her happy - as I also felt she took me for granted - (I have also learned in raising my daughter that I also took her for granted - it is hard work).

 

The separation has taught me alot about this - and how I am willing to put everything into saving our marriage. My W has fast tracked to her own independence - and privacy from me in her new home. We are certainly not on the same page.... I want to save the marriage - my W doesn't... to her it is my problem... I have to satisfy her needs or she is gone - take it or leave it. Though she is not really giving me any time or opportunity for me to demonstrate my love for her or my desire to meet her emotional needs... She has never expressed any doubt in her mind that a divorce is the best thing.

 

It would be up to me to convince her that I will satisfy her needs (she would do nothing to assist me in satisfying her)... She had expected to change me to learn to meet her needs.... she may be narscistic... she claims she was a great mother and a great wife - though I think I gave to her more than she gave to me.

 

My W emotional needs are that she needs a best friend - someone who understands her completely... knows what she wants without asking. Be there for her whenever she needs it... connect with her emotions and sexual needs (her needs are greater than mine)

 

I want to do everything I can to save the marriage - part of me thinks she will never be happy with me no matter how much I sacrifice myself to meet her needs... Yet I am still have strong desire to do it.

 

I do not want to live the single life... being a single dad is hard - overwhelming to raise my daughter and sad and lonely when I do not have my daughter.

 

Neither is optimal - just hoping If I can re-kindle my marriage and bring my family back together that I have learned from my mistakes and will not neglect her going forward - I believe it is possible to survive this and have a much better marriage than we had before.

 

It sounds like you both took each other for granted. It takes times like these to realize how special someone is.

 

I think if you truly feel like you gave more than recieved, absence is only going to make her appreciate you more over time. As long as you are willing and loving, but still distant, you will accomplish more than being readily available at her every call or need.

 

These are my momentary thoughts.

[TrustInYourself]

These are NOT realistic ENs though, hon.

It's patently unfair for a woman to EXPECT a man to read her mind, to spend all his time trying to predict her every whim.

 

Look... you might have made some mistakes and those mistakes might have been substantial even... but you can't fault yourself for not having a f*cking crystal ball with which to read her mind on a moment-to-moment basis.

 

People in a relationship have an innate responsibility to share their "needs" with their partner, and in terms which can be understood. ENs are LIMITED to being important within the relationship. IOW, both partners, when on their own, are assumed to be "self-fruitful" in assuring their own happiness. It's when we have the consistent daily compromise of being IN a relationship that we have to concern ourselves with someone else's ENs. ENs are the monetary exchange of our "love bank".

 

Outside the relationship though, and for the purposes of trying to draw a recalcitrant partner back to the marriage... ENs are more like a saucer of milk you'd offer to a barn cat. You might leave it out on the stoop, but you don't follow the cat around, expending ALL your time and energy trying to coax her into have some milk. You know what I'm talking about?

 

I've said it from my first post... your FEAR of divorce is the main thing at issue here. Your own ability to be "self-fruitful" is compromised by this terrible anxiety you have. And while I can't fault you for wanting a two-parent home for your little girl, you have to be WHOLE to be healthy enough for true partnership. This business of being "self-fruitful" is ESSENTIAL... not just to whatever slim possibility of success you might have in your current endeavor, but to EVERYTHING else in your life. This includes your parenting relationship. You need to be whole in order to be the best Dad you can be.

 

I read your other thread, and I know you're having a bad day and "venting"... but dude, I'm just not sure that you actually LOVE this woman. She's been so selfish within the marriage, it wouldn't be hard for me to believe that your "love bank" is (and has been) completely empty. I think there's a possibility here that you might have convinced yourself that you still "love" her... because you're so desperately trying to evade your fear of divorce.

 

At the bottom line, and for your own sake, I'd like to see you putting more of your time and energy into YOU, into learning to be comfortable and content in your own skin, into a full and productive daily life. And I mean ALOT more "time and energy". Leave the saucer out on the stoop, leave the door ajar, be pleasant in you interchanges, be attractive when you see her... but make a priority out of putting this anxiety in perspective. You'll be a better Dad for having done so.. and a better partner sometime in the future, whether it be with your former wife or with someone else.

 

Exactly, this time should be about you. Not your wife. The more you chase, beg, plead, and reason with her, the more you cheapen yourself and your feelings.

 

Stop putting your own happiness a distant 2nd or 3rd.

 

If you want your wife to love and understand you, don't lay everything on the table for her to pick up and smash. Keep things hidden. Be understanding and loving. But let her do some of the heavy lifting. She left you.

 

My wife never came back to me when I was pleading or reasoning. It wasn't about showing her how I changed or that I could meet her needs. I let her know, she saw my changes, and with absence she realized how she still loved me. You want love? Kill your fear. Embrace change. Get to a point where divorce is not a dirty word, but something you are ready and willing to do for your wife. Then your love is greater than your fear. That's my take.

 

You need to stay on a path of self-growth and improvement. You haven't changed for yourself. You've changed for your wife. So far, everything you have done is just momentary due to the crisis in your life. If she moves back in, what is going to prevent you from going back to the way you were? Most likely, you will find yourself in the same place in a year or so. Fix yourself. Address yourself. Take time for yourself. To hell with your wife for now. To hell with her needs. If you think you need your wife to be happy, you are mistaken. She is not a need for you to be emotionally healthy. If she is, then you should address that.

[imagine]

Methinks the lady is a cake eater.

 

What think you of an effective plan B at this point?

[Ladyjane14]

"Plan B" only works after a really stellar "Plan A", otherwise there can be no contrast and it all looks like 'game-playing' to the WS.

 

I'm thinking though, that in light of SD's specific personal history, Harley's "plans" need to be secondary to getting emotionally whole and healthy. He's not going to be able to work toward a goal if his entire impetus is just being scared spitless.

[SingleDad]

I think we were both selfish... We both were set in out ways... we both were independent.

 

We both work, we both raised our daughter, we both had some independent lives - but we also focused on our nuclear family.

 

Yes I am scared of Divorce... I do not want to live alone - I do not want to start over or start a new life with someone else. I made a decision 4 years ago to marry my W and life through the good and bad times.

 

I do not want to live a life of seeing my daughter bounce back and forth between houses - only see my daughter 3 days a week for 15 years. I want a family first and formost.

 

"Embrace Divorce" "Kill your Fear"... I do not understand these concepts... I do not know how I can do them... It is against the fiber of my beliefs.

 

I know I need to learn to enjoy and appreciate myself on my own - that will take time.

 

I am not being clingy or demanding to my W - I know that will be detrimental.... But I am secretly longing to repair my marriage.

 

Yes I do love my wife... There are times in the marriage where I questioned it... We are not a match made in heaven granted - but I do not know if anyone is... So many people marry during their infatuation stage with all of the butterflies etc... and then when those feelings go away they think they fall out of love... but love is deeper than that.

 

Most marriages have times of arguments and times where you can't stand your spouse - but there is a deeper sense of love and committment that keeps the marriage together.... I am so suprised that W can end the marriage so easily.

 

I do believe there is hope.

 

W called me this morning to talk about potty training our daughter and using pull-ups... We are having conversations... they are not about our future together... but I know my W needs communication with me.

 

I do not know if W's needs and expectations of me are realistic or can be achieved. But I did not realize before how important they are to her to make her whole and keep the marriage together.. Now that I know how important they are to her and I know what it is like to not have her and a family together in my life - I at least want to be given the opportunity to try again.

[TrustInYourself]

I think we were both selfish... We both were set in out ways... we both were independent.

 

We both work, we both raised our daughter, we both had some independent lives - but we also focused on our nuclear family.

 

Yes I am scared of Divorce... I do not want to live alone - I do not want to start over or start a new life with someone else. I made a decision 4 years ago to marry my W and life through the good and bad times.

 

I do not want to live a life of seeing my daughter bounce back and forth between houses - only see my daughter 3 days a week for 15 years. I want a family first and formost.

 

"Embrace Divorce" "Kill your Fear"... I do not understand these concepts... I do not know how I can do them... It is against the fiber of my beliefs.

 

I know I need to learn to enjoy and appreciate myself on my own - that will take time.

 

I am not being clingy or demanding to my W - I know that will be detrimental.... But I am secretly longing to repair my marriage.

 

Yes I do love my wife... There are times in the marriage where I questioned it... We are not a match made in heaven granted - but I do not know if anyone is... So many people marry during their infatuation stage with all of the butterflies etc... and then when those feelings go away they think they fall out of love... but love is deeper than that.

 

Most marriages have times of arguments and times where you can't stand your spouse - but there is a deeper sense of love and committment that keeps the marriage together.... I am so suprised that W can end the marriage so easily.

 

I do believe there is hope.

 

W called me this morning to talk about potty training our daughter and using pull-ups... We are having conversations... they are not about our future together... but I know my W needs communication with me.

 

I do not know if W's needs and expectations of me are realistic or can be achieved. But I did not realize before how important they are to her to make her whole and keep the marriage together.. Now that I know how important they are to her and I know what it is like to not have her and a family together in my life - I at least want to be given the opportunity to try again.

 

I'm not saying get a divorce. I'm saying get to a point where you are comfortable with yourself enough to say that you can be okay with divorce. There's a big difference there. Right now, you can't accept it because you are uncomfortable with yourself. You can not live without your wife. That's co-dependence. Relying on someone else for your happiness is only going to lead you into depression and another break up.

 

As far as your reasoning to stay and work it out, that's fine. As long as you understand that your secret longings and neediness may be detrimental to long term success. There has to be a point where you realize that your happiness is your own responsibility. It's not from how you feel about another person.

 

Let go. Let her come back to you. There are reasons for this train of thought.

 

You're going to do what you want to do anyways. I hope you continue your communication with your wife. Those non-relationships, non-intense, fun conversations are nice for rebuilding the connections that brought you together. I see you are taking steps to reaffirm your love for your wife and that's good. I just question whether she will accept them until you are less available, less giving. I'm suggesting withdraw a bit and live your life for yourself for a bit. Best wishes.

[Ladyjane14]

TIY is right, hon. We're not trying to talk you into throwing in the towel. We just want to see you going at it from a healthier place is all. That way, you're prepared for either outcome, AND... you actually have a better chance of success in your current endeavor.

 

There's not much on the outside that you have to change. It's just a matter of reordering your internal goals so that they read:

 

1. Being content and happy in my daily life.

 

2. Getting back together with my STBX.

 

Right now, you've got those goals reversed so that your happiness and contentment are contingent upon repairing your marriage... which is NOT a goal you can accomplish on your own without her cooperation. Reordering your priorities and accomplishing this first goal though... empowers you because it's something you do have complete control over.

[n9688m]

Yes I am scared of Divorce...

 

Have you continued your individual counseling? Or perhaps consider a licensed psychologist who specializes in family counseling rather than the other options you mentioned previously?

[HeatherAngel]

SD - do you want to communicate with me more directly? I cannot believe we are in the same boat, and not using our oars.

[SingleDad]

HeatherAngel - I'd be happy to communicate more directly... I tried to send you a private message - but your profile prefenrnces to not seem to be set up to allow for private messages - See if you can change that and we can write each other to our private mailbox.

 

No one seems to appreciate our struggles... family, friends, everyone tells me to just give up - W is not interested in reconciling.

 

I know she feels that way completely right now. But a year from now - will she feel the same way ? If I move on in my life, then I am sure divorce will become a reality... The absolute only way to save it is to work my way back into my W life and become her closest friend - I just do not know if that is possible.

 

I vascillate between having hope and desire make an effort and despair and hopelessness.

[HeatherAngel]

Okay SD - I feel pretty stupid, but I don't actually know HOW to message you!! Duh. If you enlighten me, we'll chat.

 

 

EDIT: Okay - apparently I am not an established member and thus do not have access to private messages. Found that in the FAQ.

[SingleDad]

HeatherAngel - I must have done enough posts to be deemed an established member and was automatically switched over - aahh the privileges of membership !!! Doesn't say how long or how many posts it takes ??

 

I also just read that we cannot provide our own e-mail addresses - so that won't work.

 

If you want to post on my thread that's fine to chat. Or post to your own thread. You just have to ignore the posters that you don't like what they have to say.

 

Anyway hope things are going better for you - have you made any contact ? Any expression of hope from H ?

 

Not getting much from my W... she did agree to go to dinner for my 40th bday tomorrow - As long as I don't tell her I love her, put pressure on her to come back or get in a disagreement....then she's going out with her "girlfriend" Sounds like it will be a thrilling evening !!!

[Owl]

So show up dressed to kill, with the cologne she liked the most on you. Don't say I love you, don't pressure her...show up, and let her SEE (and smell, very important sense for many women) exactly what she's giving up.

 

Let her see the person she fell in love with all those years ago.

 

No pressure, no pushing...let your ACTIONS deliver the message instead.

[SingleDad]

Owl - thanks for the wisdom and encouragement

[next8]

My wife left me and we stayed apart for about 4 months.. 3 and a half months after we were apart she said something that REALLY HURT ME and made me to where I was hurt enough by her that i could go ahead and finally start talking to other girls. A friend of mine that I had met just as friends and I started getting close and within 2 weeks we were together.. then my wife I guess was jealous by that and we did end up getting back together. Things now DO seem to be going very well, so my answer to you is NO... DO NOT just be friends with her. Tell her "I love you to much to just be friends, it hurts to much." Because your right, being just friends WILL make it easier for her to stay apart from you.

[SingleDad]

Well - my relationship with my W just fell off a cliff.

 

I called her last night - the weather knocked off the power - called to see if her power was out and get ready in case her power goes out as well. Then she said that she had something to discuss as well.. She went on to say that she is putting thogether 2 boards (one for each house - of the rules for raising our daughter - the "do" and "dont's" and "right" and "wrong" behaviors. I just listened.

 

Then she started swearing "What the F*ck - are you listening to me"

 

me "yes I'm listening"

 

W "Is our daughter sleeping through the night ?"

 

me "no - she still wakes up and comes into my room about midnight"

 

W "so you haven't taken my suggestion and put a dog gate at her door. And put her back in her own bed when she wakes up"

 

me "no"

 

W "so you are not doing what I suggested"

 

me "our daughter has separation anxiety, the last thing I want to do right now is keep sending her back to her room. She doesn't even know who she will see on which day."

 

W "well if you won't, then I'll take our daughter every night"

 

me "I'm more concerned about the longer term effects of her living in separate homes, with divorced parents... I want to work on us - get us back together - not merely the day to day issues. You focus on what she is wearing and how she sleeps. I am focusing on the long term"

 

W "well we will never get back together if you won't work with me to raise our daughter (her way)"

 

me "we have differnet methods of raising our daughter - I do not always agree with your methods... I would gladly follow you methods if that would help bring us back together as a family.. but generally your methods are too strict - she is only 2 1/2"

 

W "So you are going to be selfish and only take my advice if it brings us together ?"

 

me " Well I don't mean it that way...I prefer to raise my daughter my way at my house... I will take your advice and follow it if it I agree with it and it works - especially if we are able to work together to raise our daughter. But if you have no intention of getting back together and are just using this as a way to run both households - then I'd rather use my methods"

 

W "That is just like you - you are a selfish bast-rd. It's always about you. You won't even do what is best for our daughter"

 

me "what is best for our daughter - is for the family to be back together"

 

W "well we'll never be together the way you keep arguing with me."

 

 

Then I left her a message this morning - "I do not know what happened last night... I do not know what happened with my wife, the person I love - you have changed in the last year or two. You are angry, controlling and disrespectful - maybe raising our daughter is not as easy or turning out the way you expected. I am a great father. How do you expect me to take your advice when you are angry with me and disrespectful. I want you back the way you were - but not the way you are to me now."

 

She called back and twisted everything I said very similar words back to me...

 

 

 

How do relationships get so screwed up... and point of views so twisted ?

 

I can not stand being with this woman when she treats me this way.

 

Obviously my 40th bday dinner with her is off - neither of us want to be with each other.

 

This is so sad for our daughter - why can't my W and I get through this. We cannot agree and work together.

 

I am at the point of throwing in the towel - or at least going through another period of LC. I am so frustrated.

[Owl]

Why not suggest this...

 

FAMILY counseling, where you can discuss the "rules" for raising your daughter in a safe environment with a professional who can help the two of you come up with a compromise that's best for your daughter?

 

The problem is...you turned this discussion about your daughter into a request that your wife come home and reconcile. That was the WRONG way to go about any of this. THAT behavior will just keep driving your wife away.

 

STOP IT.

 

Start working towards COMPROMISES. WITHOUT trying to force your wife to reconcile the marriage. If you make the compromises fair, if you remain reasonable but firm, if you follow that plan A advice...THAT will get you the opportunity to reconcile at some point. But if you keep bringing it up, if you continue to turn conversations into this same old discussion...you WILL lose your chance.

 

Make sense?

[SingleDad]

Yes - Owl it makes sense... Looks like I screwed that one up terribly.

 

It will just be so difficult to obey her orders and be able to keep my own self-respect - to have the slim chance of winning her back.

 

She will get everything she wants and I have to suck it up and absorb all of her criticism...learn to live under the rules of a dictator who rules both houses.

 

She has won either way.

[Ladyjane14]

 

The problem is...you turned this discussion about your daughter into a request that your wife come home and reconcile. That was the WRONG way to go about any of this. THAT behavior will just keep driving your wife away.

 

Exactly. And I know it came from an innocent place and was not designed to be pushy. But from her POV, it's going to come off as manipulative.

 

Bottom line... it's YOU who's suffering from "separation anxiety" and you're over-empathizing with your baby. A certain amount is to be expected from toddlers whether their parents are together or not. And the method of dealing with it is to reassure your child that she's okay and then put her back to bed... as many times as it takes.

 

Your GOAL is that your child feels safe in her environment. And your unvoiced message, allowing her out of bed, is that she's not... thus you end up unwittingly feeding her insecurity when all the time you were trying to heal it.

 

I really do feel for ya.

This is a difficult stage for ANY parent. When I was going through it, I bought them each a "Glo-worm" and made up a goodnight ritual, but I remember feeling VERY anxious about damaging their little psyches.

 

There's time later on to draw a line in the sand about how much input an ex should have in your home. If it turns out that you two don't get back together... you'll find that you HAVE to set some boundaries. But for right now, pick your battles, man. I'm not saying you should capitulate on every parenting point... but make sure it's worth fighting about if you decide to take issue.

 

As far as your birthday meal is concerned... I think you should go. I would keep the conversation light during dinner, but then I'd ask for a coffee date later on to discuss co-parenting. That gives you TWO chances to shine rather than just the one.

 

 

Oh... and keep working on having fun in your daily life. That ought to be a priority for you at this point. It makes you more interesting and it'll make you FEEL better.