How to start from scratch in 12 mo separation ?

[TrustInYourself]

I NEVER went "cold shoulder" to my wife, during her affair or after.

 

What I DID do is exactly what I'd outlined to you here.

 

I made changes in myself and my behaviors that I needed to make. I demonstrated to her how good life with me was. I ALSO stopped letting her treat me like a doormat. I refused to support her affair. I had to fight hard to cut back on the "I love you's" and buying flowers and candies and gifts...just like you've been doing. Because I SAW how little that helped my cause, I stopped doing it all the time. Instead, I took the actions I've recommended to you. Dressed nicer, LISTENED to her, did my part of taking care of our kids and our home. I did this for several weeks, and it didn't seem to help much.

 

Then when it seemed like she was still INSISTENT that we seperate, and indicated that that seperation was going to be for a year or longer, I made sure that she understood that I was not willing to be her backup plan for a year. If she wanted to seperate for that long, I was going to file for divorce. She also mentioned possibly contacting OM during that time...I made it clear that if she resumed her affair with him...there would be NO reconciliation, just as I'd told her from the beginning.

 

So what she saw was both sides...what life with me could be like at its best, and that she stood to lose me if she continued her path.

 

She made her choice to give us a chance...and here we are, over four years later.

 

In your case, you need to stop with the "nothing helps" attitude. You wouldn't know if the advice you've been given to stop the pressure and just show her how good it can be will work with her or not...you've not tried it. You've not found out if there IS another man in the equation...which you absolutely SHOULD find out, because that changes how you should try to go about this.

 

You seem to view all of this as manipulation. I don't get that. What it SHOULD be is you improving yourself...REGARDLESS of whether or not it wins your wife back.

 

I've got no other advice to offer.

 

Good advice! I showed her the best of me. I showed her I could be the man that she loved. And when she still had doubts, I took the decision away from her. If she knew exactly what I had to offer and wasn't at all happy with that, I wasn't going to be the back up plan. I pressed with divorce, because at that point, she would not have deserved me if she walked away. At some point, you start to realize how selfish your spouse can be when she walks away. You realize how special you are and the love you have to give. If she's not willing to work for that love, than there is nothing you can do.

 

I took the option off the table when I knew I could no longer be with someone so selfish. The major turning point in my thought process to convince me to force a decision was the fact that my wife was willing to break up our family for her own selfish desires of the "grass is greener". The unknown. She was willing to put our family through hell so she could see what else was out there. That made me tell her, we either work on this or we divorce. I truly meant it too.

 

I'm still struggling with the reprecussions from that revelation. It's hard to love someone when you start thinking thoughts like those.

[TrustInYourself]

Owl - I am not sure if an OM matters anymore. My Wife has moved out and bought another house. She considers us already divorced. She wants a divorce. She would say it is fine to be with other men. I am not her back-up plan. We are over in her mind. I cannot threaten divorce to have her reconsider her actions.

 

So so many of the methods out there would not work in my case.

 

The only thing I can do is be more of the man she would want to be with and fall in love with again. And if she OM, I would need to be more appealing than him. Right now that would not be the case.

 

Yet If I dated - she would see it as that I am lying to her and do not love her or I woundn't be dating other people. She would not ever come back to be if I was with another woman.

 

I think she needs to know I love her and she would need to believe that I can be the person to love her the way she wants - she is not willing to consider or believe that now - she is in another world now - it may take months or years for her belief to change.

 

I either stay single and work on myself hoping she will see it years from now. Or I move on and try to make a new start with an OW.

 

Acceptance. That's major. If it's over, then it's over. Resisting is lying to yourself that there is a chance. Be true to yourself, you owe that to yourself.

 

Consequences. What are the consequences of her actions? None. You are trying even harder. What does that reinforce? You are enabling her behavior. You're reinforcing her infidelity. You are being "spine-less". I'm not trying to be mean. I'm being honest. Sorry if that's a bit rough.

 

Changes. What changes have you made to address your behavior. Sure you are high on showing her you love her and you can meet her emotional needs, but that's superficial. That can always change in a moment. What life changes have you made? How have you improved your life and outlook on life? What have you done through your actions to show growth?

 

You think by telling someone you love them or sending them flowers or cards or being considerate, you can change people's feelings? If it was that easy, I'd be sending flowers to Jessica Alba.

 

Let me know your thoughts.

[SingleDad]

Good advice! I showed her the best of me. I showed her I could be the man that she loved. And when she still had doubts, I took the decision away from her. If she knew exactly what I had to offer and wasn't at all happy with that, I wasn't going to be the back up plan. I pressed with divorce, because at that point, she would not have deserved me if she walked away. At some point, you start to realize how selfish your spouse can be when she walks away. You realize how special you are and the love you have to give. If she's not willing to work for that love, than there is nothing you can do.

 

I took the option off the table when I knew I could no longer be with someone so selfish. The major turning point in my thought process to convince me to force a decision was the fact that my wife was willing to break up our family for her own selfish desires of the "grass is greener". The unknown. She was willing to put our family through hell so she could see what else was out there. That made me tell her, we either work on this or we divorce. I truly meant it too.

 

I'm still struggling with the reprecussions from that revelation. It's hard to love someone when you start thinking thoughts like those.

 

 

In my case - I am not her back-up plan. She does not want me. She does not want to work on us. She is selfishly taking what she wants - all the time thinking she is doing absolutely the right thing for her and our daughter - no one could ever convince her otherwise.

 

Either I work on me, stay alone, wait patiently for months and months and subtly see if my enduring love will bring her back in... and hope that she finds that life is not wonderful on the other side.

 

Or I give up, knowing that she will never want to come back, and start a new life and start dating.

[Owl]

In my case - I am not her back-up plan. She does not want me. She does not want to work on us. She is selfishly taking what she wants - all the time thinking she is doing absolutely the right thing for her and our daughter - no one could ever convince her otherwise.

 

I would agree, that's what she SAYS.

 

But who did she call when she had car trouble? Who is she relying on for continued financial support? Who is she expecting to "play nice"?

 

My money says she's not yet FACED that reality. Right now, its a CONCEPT to her that she'll be completely without you. Its not a hard reality that she's had to face.

 

Which ties back into the advice on plan A and plan B.

 

First, in plan A you show her how good life is with you. You demonstrate the changes that needed to be made, you let her start to lean on you to meet some of her needs.

 

And if that doesn't change things...after a good plan A, you go to a DARK plan B. THAT clearly shows her the reality of life without you. And it lets you start building your own self-reliance and self-confidence.

 

She's not yet had you completely removed from her life. She's not yet seen how good things can truly be with you.

 

You've got months left yet to make that impression. See where I'm going?

[Owl]

On whether or not it matters if there is an OM...

 

It depends...if she DID leave you for another man, but kept it hidden from you, her friends, her family....and then suddenly the truth came out...would her friends, her family SUPPORT her affair and leaving you for him, or would they instead support reconciliation of the marriage?

[SingleDad]

Owl - the D bomb came on Jan 24th... There is no way I could ever know now (after 8 months) if any man she may be seeing now was going on before Jan 24th. Also - her family wants her to be happy. If she was not happy with me - then she should find someone who does...

 

Her mother has lived that way her whole life... If she isn't taken out to dinner a couple of times each week - she breaks up with him. Then is desperately alone and in need of a new man to pine over her.

[Owl]

Clearly she was raised by a wonderful role model.

 

Given this...do you honestly think that your wife is CAPABLE of being the kind of wife that you need??? Really?

 

I start to suspect that perhaps you're 'glamorizing' her in your eyes a bit...when the harsh truth may simply be that she's not ever going to be the kind of woman, the kind of wife that you need and deserve.

 

Do you see her ever changing from the kind of person she is now?

[SingleDad]

I would agree, that's what she SAYS.

 

But who did she call when she had car trouble? Who is she relying on for continued financial support? Who is she expecting to "play nice"?

 

My money says she's not yet FACED that reality. Right now, its a CONCEPT to her that she'll be completely without you. Its not a hard reality that she's had to face.

 

Which ties back into the advice on plan A and plan B.

 

First, in plan A you show her how good life is with you. You demonstrate the changes that needed to be made, you let her start to lean on you to meet some of her needs.

 

And if that doesn't change things...after a good plan A, you go to a DARK plan B. THAT clearly shows her the reality of life without you. And it lets you start building your own self-reliance and self-confidence.

 

She's not yet had you completely removed from her life. She's not yet seen how good things can truly be with you.

 

You've got months left yet to make that impression. See where I'm going?

 

 

That's the dilemna.... I am trying to do the plan A - be nice, have her in my life, have her want to be around, have her miss what she used to have, etc. And be the kind of person she wants around... let her know instinctively I love her and she is welcome back anytime.

 

Yet she is mostly going dark or Plan B.... So I cannot have an effective Plan A - she has distanced herself from me and being around the house that I cannot do a plan A effectively. It may take months before I hope I can get her to go out to dinner together or watch a movie - or help her paint rooms in her new house - without much interaction or contact, Plan A is not possible.

 

W's CONCEPT that I will always be there for our daughter (and thereby be there for W) will not go away - if W perceives that, she will take me to court and get more custody.

 

And Plan B will not work well with a daughter... W could easily be vengeful enough (maybe even hoping I will screw up) to take me to court to get more custody time with our daughter away from me. If I do not cooperate with her on raising our daughter, telling W any issues she has, working out scheduling conflicts, etc - I should expect to be taken to court and have to fight to keep my rights. The court will generally only allow joint custody with parents who can cooperate with each other and keep each other informed.

 

It is a lose - lose situation for me... All I can do is cooperate, be nice and be there for her, have her see that I am a good man, a man who loves her and appreciates her. And hope that things work out.

 

 

Owl - I feel bad that people are getting the impression I am stubborn and not taking advice. It is not my intention to fight with you over this plan - It worked very well for you... I just think I am caught between a rock and a hard place - and it is too far along in the process and her mindset for so many of these strategies to work.

 

I think All I can do is be friendly, be cooperative, helpful when asked, always be there for her and hope she doesn't find that from anyone else.

[SingleDad]

Don't forget - She filed for a divorce against me in January - with three months of legal actions and attorney's... She moved it away from the attorney's to a mediator because it was destroying any hope of us being able to co-parent our daughter...

 

It is not like she was having an affair and wanting to stay married at the same time... this is not a "wanting her cake and eat it too" scenario. She wants a divorce.

 

She was not feeling loved. Not feeling that I cared about her or her needs and wants. She couldn't take the "neglect" anymore and had to leave to find her "inner-strength".

 

The Plan B or "going dark" is exactly what drove her away. Only a Plan A can work. She needs to feel loved... she needs to feel cared for... she needs to be heard.

 

Pelicanpreecher - said that by telling her that I love her today demonstrates that I am not hearing her and just magnifies her feeling that I an trying to manipulate her and be headstrong. I agree that this is the way she is feeling.

 

Somehow I need balance the two. I need her to feel I love her and will be there for her, and care for her and listen to her... yet not be forceful or manipulative or headstrong. Nor can I be distant or "going dark"

 

Feel like I am on a razerblade tightrope. It hurts so much to walk it, but it would be worse if I fell off it.

[Owl]

Nor can you be her doormat to simply to use and wipe her feet on as she pleases...

 

Women don't love a man they can't respect. No one respects a doormat.

[SingleDad]

Clearly she was raised by a wonderful role model.

 

Given this...do you honestly think that your wife is CAPABLE of being the kind of wife that you need??? Really?

 

I start to suspect that perhaps you're 'glamorizing' her in your eyes a bit...when the harsh truth may simply be that she's not ever going to be the kind of woman, the kind of wife that you need and deserve.

 

Do you see her ever changing from the kind of person she is now?

 

 

We had a decent relationship in 6 of the past 7 years - it had its rocky patches, and it wasn't the fantasy life - but it worked ok.

 

This selfish side I never saw until this year. She is now fighting for her self survival.

 

Whereas before she was fighting for the nuclear family. All of my effort and attention was to be focused on my immediate family (not my mother or grandmother or uncle or aunt). Work was supposed to just be a place to get a paycheck. It wasn't until after the divorce action that I clearly see the most important things in this world to me are my daughter and my family (and my original wife - not the way she is now)

 

After what I have seen from her this past year - I am not sure I would want to be with my W.

 

I am somehow wondering if I am the cause of what she is now - cold, distant, angry, selfish. Somehow believing if I was a warm and loving as she wanted that she would be the person I married again.

[SingleDad]

Nor can you be her doormat to simply to use and wipe her feet on as she pleases...

 

Women don't love a man they can't respect. No one respects a doormat.

 

Funny you should mention that... her father is a doormat for my W. Since he only had herevery other weekend after my W's mother divorced him when she was 5.

 

W's father has the warmest heart and would do anything for my W - and sacrifice everything of himself to do anything for my W.

 

Thus W grew up expecting her H to treat her the same way as her father treated her.

 

W has deep respect for her father. And no respect for me because I could never compare to her father. I am to selfish and stubborn.

 

 

Of Course - I did not have the best role models either. My father was a selfish alcoholic and my mother is not affectionate.

I never really learned how to give as much affection is one would want - until I had my daughter. My life and my viewpoints on what is important has changed dramatically since the divorce action.

[TrustInYourself]

I think the most important thing to know, regardless of all the opinions you get, is to know that only one person knows what you should do.

 

That's you. Take care.

[badbrit]

Wow, I have literally just spend two hours 45 minutes reading this thread and am very tired but I am asking, no I am begging you to go to amazon and buy love tactics and read it, really read it. It is millions of times better than all the resources I have seen posted here.

 

I am just reading your thread and sighing out of despair, I could spend literally another three hours quoting your posts and explaining how you are doing this wrong.

 

I like you man, I feel for you and can actually see you are skirting around the edges of doing this right but are fatally flawed and it really is too long to explain, read the book.

 

God I am so frustrated because there are a million things i could say and a million times in the last 26 pages of threads I wanted to type something. It is scary to me that you could actually have your wife back (forever) but won't because you will not learn what you need to and are too stuck on your pride, blaming her, the church, morals and doing what "feels" right rather than what is right.

 

I will say three things as examples

1. You have a ton of times showed your wife how much you do not understand her, are not supportive or a good proposition long term. I recall the arguing over the daughter getting out of bed. What you should of done is asked her, "could you explain to me what you feel I should do and why." That would have made her think you listen, want to know what she thinks and would have filled a big emotional need. Instead you just showed that you are a stubborn fool who only has his own point of view and her replies to you were exactly what I would have expected. You feel it was the right thing to do and did not consider her point of view (which by the way was better than yours and I have three children so do not try lecturing me on raising children) and just showed yourself up.

 

2. All you have to do is accept that you did not meet her emotional needs. She has not changed, is not a bitch, not selfish or any of that rubbish, She is a woman who did not have her needs met (and you are totally proving that by still doing the opposite of meeting them) and so checked out. She thinks bad of you because of how you act. Everything that has happened has happened because you do not have a clue what matters, what really matters, what she wanted, how to give it and the biggest demonstration is this crazy thing you have about marriage is for life. Simple, married, child, stay together. Shut the F up man, seriously. Why should she stay in a situation that is making her unhappy? She only gets one life and just wants to be happy and you were not doing that.

 

3. OM, if there is one, accept it happened because you were not meeting needs and put the pride aside. The betrayal, the dishonest element of it and accept you invited a OM (if there is one) into her life. If you made her happy why would she leave? Do you think a woman just thinks, "hell yeah, I want to be a single mum, struggling alone, no money, uncertain future etc etc" for the fun of it?

 

Damn man, I hope you sort your head out and that book will help as will Law of Attraction, try The Secret.

 

I feel you will not listen to this or understand what I am saying because it is easier to feel that you are so great because you are loyal and want to keep your family together whereas she is the bad girl for not having the same moral whatever rubbish you call it.

 

Well I will tell you straight, I can clearly, and I mean clearly see this situation can be reversed VERY easily but it wont if you do not learn the right things and totally change your mindset, relax and be a better man to your wife.

 

Oh, I told you this already TIY, but same applies to you. You are luckily much better that SD, nearer to doing it right but you too are not quite there.

 

Fellas, you are so close, please do the right thing.

 

If you were in my head you would be able to do this. I do not care less what my ex is doing, with who, how or why. I know I caused it, I manifested it and I know I will fix it. I understand one simple fact, it is all happening only because i failed to make her happy and content. The rest is rubbish and does not matter. Slow appliance and understanding. Meet the needs, do it right and it does not matter where we are today, it matters where we will one day be - reconcilled even though she does not think so.

 

And one other thing, reading your thread has given me hope because i hear and read how reconcilliations are rare. Yeah they are because people doing it perfectly correctly, consistantly, believing and being patient enough are very rare.

 

Example, you could do it, you are close but will not because of the wrong attitude. That means you will become one of the schools of, "my ex did that, showed interest but just screwed me around, kick them out, it never works" well that is wrong, it will fail because of YOU. I am glad I am not you

[badbrit]

Oh and stop all that her father, my dad, her mum, bad examples, depressed blah blah rubbish

 

Been there, done that. It is immaterial, totally immaterial.

 

MEET HER NEEDS. Do it correctly, make her feel good, happy, enjoying interactions, understood, that you are on her side, understand her better than anyone while also working on attraction through NOT being so damn available and you will get there.

 

Stop with the excuses about stuff that does not matter. Meeting needs, making her happy and understood is the basics of all that matters.

[GreenEyedLady]

I understand one simple fact, it is all happening only because i failed to make her happy and content.

 

That means you will become one of the schools of, "my ex did that, showed interest but just screwed me around, kick them out, it never works" well that is wrong, it will fail because of YOU. I am glad I am not you

 

Wow, I'm glad I'm not you either!

 

Could you be any tactless?

 

No one is responsible for making someone happy and content; That comes from within. Your R is happy when both people are actively involved in nurturing the R. That's what partners are responsible for. It is not one's person's right to receive and the other's to give. Both must do for each other.

 

And reconciliation does not fail because one person doesn't succumb to the other's whims. It fails because both people's hearts are not in it.

 

GEL

[GreenEyedLady]

MEET HER NEEDS. Do it correctly, make her feel good, happy, enjoying interactions, understood, that you are on her side, understand her better than anyone while also working on attraction through NOT being so damn available and you will get there.

 

Stop with the excuses about stuff that does not matter. Meeting needs, making her happy and understood is the basics of all that matters.

 

SD needs to meet his own needs.

 

This obsession with winning her back is seriously affecting his life.

 

I'm sorry SD, but what's so great about her anyway? She's cold to you, doesn't want to be around you, her parenting style is extremely strict, she expects her way or the highway, she wanted to divorce you and she's going out with other men.

 

If you made a list of the reasons that you love her, what is on the list? Why do you love her? Honestly. And of those things on the list, is she even one of those things now?

 

Sometimes people change. And there's nothing anyone can do about it.

 

And it doesn't mean it's anyone's fault.

[badbrit]

I have a tip for you GEL, get over yourself my love. It is not tactless, it is a sharp kick up the bum. I am telling you straight, this is easily salvageable and I mean easily. He just needs to alter things.

 

I am well aware that happiness comes from within, mine certainly does. I am well aware that it needs two people nurturing the R to make it work.

 

Your point is what exactly? I seem to have lost it, oh yeah, it was to tell him to blow her out, walk away from his family, give up and throw in the towel because they have hit a moment in time where she is not nurturing, not wanting, not happy. It happens and ideally not as extreme as this, but it happens and it is because her needs were not being met. Happiness comes from within, that is true, but everyone only stays happily with a partner when the partner is meeting all the relevant needs. He did fail, of that there is no doubt but he can salvage it if he can accept that and work on it PROPERLY

 

Hey, it is a long long life. They have been together 7 years and things were bad I think i read for a short while leading up til January. So lets imagine they sort this out and spend another 20 years happily.

 

That means they had six years good, one year bad, 20 years good. One rubbish year out of 27 and I assure you, if it works out she will be thankful that at least he did not give up.

 

In life you just walk away when there is a trial and test of your love?

 

I read somewhere about happily married people and they were asked about how they kept it together for decades. The answer was they never both gave up on it at the same time, there was never a time that at least one of them was not heavily invested and thank god for that.

[SingleDad]

MEET HER NEEDS. Do it correctly, make her feel good, happy, enjoying interactions, understood, that you are on her side, understand her better than anyone while also working on attraction through NOT being so damn available and you will get there.

 

Stop with the excuses about stuff that does not matter. Meeting needs, making her happy and understood is the basics of all that matters.

 

Badbrit - That is exactly what I want to do. Meet my W's needs in a way that can reconcile our marriage. We have been speaking different love languages for so long - I do not know how to do it, especially now that she doesn't want my love. I have done so many things the wrong way.

 

GEL - I understand your POV as well. My W seems selfish and spoiled - and yes now she is fighting for herself. I do not know if that is due to her expectations or what not... But I do know that I was not meeting her needs. I think it was a downward spiral by both of us. The stresses of life overcame us. Both us us want to be loved, but neither of us are overly affectionate people... Yes I can be affectionate if someone is affectionate to me... but in the routine of life, being told what to do, etc. that affectionate feeling diminishes - and over time spirals out of control.

 

BadBrit - At this point I do not know what to do. My W is done with me and does not want any pressure from me to get back together, does not want me to work on our relationship, etc. So if now I do what she wants - let our relationship die - we are through. If I do the opposite - If I tell her I love her, that I've made mistakes, I want her, etc. it pushes her away.

 

I wish we could just start from scratch without any history, without any bad feelings... W just won't let me in.

 

"Meeting her needs, making her happy, and feeling understood." - That is all I want to do... yet the bridge is burnt and there is so little communication. She is so angry and withdrawn - she won't let me near.

 

Today is our 4th anniversary. I do not do this generally - but since it is our anniversary I felt it was important to break all of the rules and tell her "I wanted to wish you a Happy Anniversary. I love you. I have always loved you. But I loved you in my own way... which is not the way you wanted. I understand now. I just wish I was given the opportunity now to show you my love the way that you want it... I wish we could spend maybe a couple of hours a week together"

 

- I know this is contrary to what she is telling me - and most will tell me that yet again I am not listening to her. I agree - It is our anniversary - and I had to just tell her I love her.

 

Now I will go back to just listening to her and doing what she wants (not to the point of being a doormat) and trying to understand her - As Dr. Harley recommended to me.

 

I have bought and read so many books. I'll have to instead go to the library or bookstore on any more books. "Love Tactics - How to win the one your want" by Thomas McKnight I presume is the book your were referring to... I'll have to get my hands on it and read it.

 

It would be so much easier if my W was simply conflicted and needed to know I was listening and understanding her and satisfying her needs - then I could learn to follow steps. But now that she is withdrawn and angry and doesn't want my love (or claims she doesn't) it is so diffficult.

 

Deep inside though, I have to believe that she wants our family together - If I could just be the person she wants - A warm, affectionate, understanding person who really listens to her and satisfies her needs.

 

That is why I am trying so hard - or wanting to try so hard. She did love me for many years and I believe she can again if I could just listen to her and understand her. But I have to get through her hardened heart first.

[SingleDad]

LadyJane - I'm not sure if you are still around, but I'd like your thoughts. As well as badbrit's advice on this specifically.

 

I want my W to know I love her, I want to express it to her, I want to listen to her and understand her - I would do it all now if I could.

 

Problem is she is through with me and doesn't want to hear any of it - my telling her just pushes her further away.

 

It doesn't seem right to do what she wants and let it go - what she wants from me is to let the marriage end.

 

Though deep inside her - I think she would want her family back, if only I were the right man for her - listen to her, understand her, and meet her needs.

 

What she used to want and what she wants now are the opposite - how can I get though to the warm loving emotional person deep inside her (when she is so cold, angry and distant now) ?

[Owl]

This ties into the question I'd asked you about the emotional needs questionaire.

 

You're going to get very limited opportunities to make deposits in her love bank. So you need to ensure that the ones you do get are taken the best advantage of...you get the most 'bang for your buck' out of them.

 

Knowing her top emotional needs lets you target the ones that will get you the best deposits.

 

Go through that list...identify the ones that you feel would have the most impact on your wife...remember....look at this from HER perspective, not yours. Try to go back through your history and see what she seemed to value the most.

 

Post the tops ones here, we can talk about ways to address them. make sense?

[SingleDad]

Yeah - to my W it's about understanding her, knowing her, knowing how she thinks, knowing her emotions, cuddling her, holding her, showing her affection, listening to her and not thinking of a response...

 

I have always been a task oriented person. I did the dishes, take out garbage, have a clean house, nice comfortable place to live, keep the cars services and clean, etc. - I was a provider - great house, good furniture, remodel kitchen - None of that mattered to her - or so she claims (because she had them already - they were being done for her - so she didn't know what it would be like to not have things done for her).

 

What she wanted was what she was not getting enough of.... I would have been happy to satisfy her emotional needs and physical needs - but after her control issues took over and made me feel worthless - I was not interested in satisfying her - downward spiral began.

 

Now that the spiral has taken us down to hell - I want to spiral back upward from scratch - give to her - make her happy - satisfy her emotional needs - and turn the spiral around (If she would ever let me).

[SingleDad]

W would complain about me mowing the lawn each week when I could have spent time with her.

 

W's world - there is no chores... just spend time with family, play with daughter. Be home by 6, eat dinner together, play board games, read to daughter, cuddle with each other... the things you do when dating, but lose sight of them when life's responsibilities take over.

 

I worked to much and had too many chores to do - and not enough time for her. (I would get frustrated because chores still had to get done - dishes, laundry, yard work and W would not do any of them... so she did the fun stuff and I did the chores - resentment built up in me) And resentment built up in her - she grew to believe that she wasn't important enough to me - that the chores were more important to me than she was

 

Plain and simple.

 

Now it's over for her. Yet now is when I realize what is important and want to do everything she wants for her and for my family.

[Owl]

OK...the "knowing her" isn't a real need. It sounds like she needs to marry Chris Angel (the "Mind Freak" guy).

 

Unless you can read minds, this is an unrealistic DESIRE...not a true emotional need.

 

The other two you outlined are communication and physical affection.

 

Clearly she's not going to give you the opportunity for the last one right now, so you should be focused on the first one.

 

So...LISTEN to her when she talks. Not just listen, but periodically repeat back or paraphrase what she's said to show her that you're paying attention. When you talk with her, use body language to show her that she's the center of your focus. Stand directly facing her, with hips and shoulders centered on her. Your arms should be open, at your sides or in your pockets or in some fashion NOT closed in front of you. Your eyes should be on hers, or her lips.

 

When she stops talking, or pauses, don't rush to respond right away. Pause, make sure she's stopped, think about what she said, and then give her a very short repeat of her main point(s). Ask if you're not sure. Then, when you've got it...respond accordingly. Address what she raised, without bringing anything of your own into it (for example, if she starts talking about your daughter, don't use that to tangent off into a relationship discussion).

 

Avoid the "love busters". Angry outbursts or responses. Disrespectful judgements about what she's said, or what she's doing.

 

Make talking to you a "safe" activity for her. Remove any pressure in your conversations for her to do anything (for now).

 

See what I'm saying?

 

THIS is an example of how you can meet that need.

 

On the physical part...you know how I've mentioned the 'dress good, smell good" thing several times? Do that. And rather than snuggle or any of the things you know she won't allow, restart the "courting" on that front again. Stand just inside her personal space. Start out with non-confrontational touching, like her hand, arm, shoulder, back. Look for an opportunity to do so where its more likely she won't even notice you're doing it at first. Don't hang on...just let it go. Let her get used to you "being in her space" again...and get comfortable with that.

 

As the communication improves, her barriers on the physical proximity will lessen.

 

Again, see where I'm going?

 

What OTHER emotional needs from that questionaire does she have as top?

[SingleDad]

Owl - this is the kind of advice that I am looking for - specific things I can do to get through her hardened heart.

 

I'll have to look at the questionnaire to see if there are any specific needs listed... but as you mentioned Communication (which to her means listening and not talking) and Affection are by far her biggest emotional needs.

 

May not be able to get back to this until Monday (out of office tomorrow then weekend with daughter).